Banding is fixed in Firmware 2.20

Started Dec 17, 2019 | Discussions
Horshack Veteran Member • Posts: 8,680
Re: NEFs
2

Timo Vahala wrote:

Originals in this folder. No banding after update.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AqKTVfEQKQ7chNdBTDt5-DPGxNYmNA?e=TmYhhu

Timo

I have about 300GB of NEFs on my hard drive that don't show banding from my weeks-long investigation effort last year As I wrote above, the manifestation of banding can vary from shot to shot even with the exact same scene and exposure.

Timo Vahala
Timo Vahala Regular Member • Posts: 122
Re: Banding has not been fixed

Horshack wrote:

Z6, Firmware V2.00 vs V2.20 (direct link):

Z6, FW V2.00 vs V2.20

See my post here on how banding can manifest/not-manifest from shot to shot even with the exact same scene and shooting parameters. This throws off a lot of people when testing whether or not banding has been fixed in a new firmware rev.

Hmm... IIRC, my first pic after update still had banding, I then started AF couple of times and after that banding was gone.

Timo

 Timo Vahala's gear list:Timo Vahala's gear list
Nikon D7200 Nikon Z6 Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM Samyang 85mm F1.4 Aspherical IF Sigma 100-400mm F5-6.3 +12 more
Horshack Veteran Member • Posts: 8,680
Re: Banding has not been fixed

Timo Vahala wrote:

Horshack wrote:

Z6, Firmware V2.00 vs V2.20 (direct link):

Z6, FW V2.00 vs V2.20

See my post here on how banding can manifest/not-manifest from shot to shot even with the exact same scene and shooting parameters. This throws off a lot of people when testing whether or not banding has been fixed in a new firmware rev.

Hmm... IIRC, my first pic after update still had banding, I then started AF couple of times and after that banding was gone.

Timo

See this post from last year: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61841053

Timo Vahala
Timo Vahala Regular Member • Posts: 122
Re: NEFs

Horshack wrote:

Timo Vahala wrote:

Originals in this folder. No banding after update.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AqKTVfEQKQ7chNdBTDt5-DPGxNYmNA?e=TmYhhu

Timo

I have about 300GB of NEFs on my hard drive that don't show banding from my weeks-long investigation effort last year As I wrote above, the manifestation of banding can vary from shot to shot even with the exact same scene and exposure.

Yes, you are right. I experimented more and damn thing manifested itself:-(

Timo

 Timo Vahala's gear list:Timo Vahala's gear list
Nikon D7200 Nikon Z6 Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM Samyang 85mm F1.4 Aspherical IF Sigma 100-400mm F5-6.3 +12 more
Timo Vahala
Timo Vahala Regular Member • Posts: 122
***RETRACTION, BANDING STILL REMAINS***
2

Nature of this phenomenon is erratic, depending on circumstances you may get pics without it, and then boom it`s back.

Timo

 Timo Vahala's gear list:Timo Vahala's gear list
Nikon D7200 Nikon Z6 Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM Samyang 85mm F1.4 Aspherical IF Sigma 100-400mm F5-6.3 +12 more
jthomas39 Contributing Member • Posts: 567
Re: Banding is fixed in Firmware 2.20

CaptD wrote:

Where's the banding in the first image? I don't see any banding in either.

The most noticeable area, cropped from 100% view.  And banding was showing in the bottom left corner and other areas, too.

2.1 firmware.

and 2.2:

~~~~

I've never seen banding on my images, even when I tried some tests.

D200_4me
D200_4me Veteran Member • Posts: 4,741
I've never seen it
4

....but then, I almost never push exposure more than 1.5 stops in editing.  Just don't see a reason to (for what I shoot).

I prefer not to have any chance of banding in heavily pushed files in editing, but it hasn't affected me in over a year since I've owned the Z7.

-- hide signature --
 D200_4me's gear list:D200_4me's gear list
Nikon Z7 Sony a6100 Nikon Z5 Sony E 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 PZ OSS Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 +3 more
SrMi
SrMi Senior Member • Posts: 2,084
Re: Banding is fixed in Firmware 2.20

Verto wrote:

And the guy from photons to photos

Why should Bill Claff see this? His measurements were not affected by banding. It was DPR who claimed that Z cameras lose DR due to banding.

 SrMi's gear list:SrMi's gear list
Leica SL2 Hasselblad X1D II 50C Leica M10 Monochrom Olympus E-M1 III Fujifilm GFX 100S +1 more
frankjoke Regular Member • Posts: 349
Re: Banding is fixed in Firmware 2.20

I am using Z7 for a year now and could not find banding in normal shots (I shoot usually in AF-C H mode to get 3 shots or so) and select the best (mostly portraits, children and landscape/city) afterwards in post. I shoot also in focus-priority (not shutter-priority).

I use lossless compressed L (full res) RAW only.

I looked for banding in about 500 (out of ~20000) shots which had 6400 ISO or more because I believed it would show up then earlier in the blacks.

The only banding I found was when I shot tests in shutter priority.

As I am not a BiF or sport shooter I don't need and want shutter priority anyhow.

p.s.: This are my personal findings and I leave it to others to prove my theory because I have no

-- hide signature --

Greetings
Franz with Z7 + Irix, Tamron, Nikon F and Z lenses.

 frankjoke's gear list:frankjoke's gear list
Nikon Z7 Tamron SP 150-600mm F5-6.3 Di VC USD G2 Irix 15mm F2.4 Venus Laowa 100mm F2.8 Macro Nikon Z 50mm F1.8 +3 more
tresemes
tresemes Forum Member • Posts: 54
Re: Banding has not been fixed
1

Can confirm, it hasn't.

Though I gotta say, I had to push the image 5 stops plus shadow +50 in LR for it to show up in both cases.

The tint of the recovered areas does seem to be much less greenish, but I wasn't testing for that so I'm not 100% sure it wasn't the methodology and I can't retest now.

 tresemes's gear list:tresemes's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon Z6 Nikon 85mm F1.8G Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm F4G ED VR +4 more
bclaff Forum Pro • Posts: 11,796
Re: Banding is fixed in Firmware 2.20
1

SrMi wrote:

Verto wrote:

And the guy from photons to photos

Why should Bill Claff see this? His measurements were not affected by banding. It was DPR who claimed that Z cameras lose DR due to banding.

It would (does) show up in my Fixed Pattern Noise (FPN) testing as is evident in the Sensor Heatmaps:

Best viewed "Original Size"

So if I retested with newer firmware these horizontal stripes might be gone; a good thing.

You're right that I don't claim this FPN affects any other measure. like PDR.

-- hide signature --

Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

Virtual Photon Senior Member • Posts: 1,419
Re: Banding has not been fixed
3

tresemes wrote:

Can confirm, it hasn't.

Though I gotta say, I had to push the image 5 stops plus shadow +50 in LR for it to show up in both cases.

Patient:  "Doctor it hurts whenever I start doing this."  Waves his arm around wildly

Doctor: "Then stop doing that."

 Virtual Photon's gear list:Virtual Photon's gear list
Nikon D500 Olympus PEN-F Nikon Z7 Nikon Z6 Nikon Z50 +12 more
Horshack Veteran Member • Posts: 8,680
Re: I've never seen it
1

D200_4me wrote:

....but then, I almost never push exposure more than 1.5 stops in editing. Just don't see a reason to (for what I shoot).

I prefer not to have any chance of banding in heavily pushed files in editing, but it hasn't affected me in over a year since I've owned the Z7.

ISO 12,800 image, no exposure adjustment in post, 100% crop. This is from another dpreview member who shared the raw with me:

Z6 PDAF striping, ISO 12,800

Varuas Contributing Member • Posts: 735
Re: I've never seen it

Horshack wrote:

D200_4me wrote:

....but then, I almost never push exposure more than 1.5 stops in editing. Just don't see a reason to (for what I shoot).

I prefer not to have any chance of banding in heavily pushed files in editing, but it hasn't affected me in over a year since I've owned the Z7.

ISO 12,800 image, no exposure adjustment in post, 100% crop. This is from another dpreview member who shared the raw with me:

Z6 PDAF striping, ISO 12,800

The only time I’ve actually seen banding in a real life scenario.  All other “banding” issues have been crazy exposure adjustments.

 Varuas's gear list:Varuas's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix Real 3D W3 Nikon D600 Nikon Z6 YI 4K+ Action Camera Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm F1.8G +4 more
CaptD Senior Member • Posts: 2,370
Re: Banding is fixed in Firmware 2.20

CaptD wrote:

Where's the banding in the first image? I don't see any banding in either.

I stand absolutely corrected. Yep, banding for sure in that top one. Well, that's some damn fine news isn't it?

-- hide signature --
 CaptD's gear list:CaptD's gear list
Nikon Z7
Timo Vahala
Timo Vahala Regular Member • Posts: 122
Take a look.

Three pics, shot back to back. AF switched off and with exact same settings, only with different framing. Results: banding in ONE.

It`s almost like there's on/off switch in a PDAF striping supression code, it can't be random. What triggers it?

Timo

 Timo Vahala's gear list:Timo Vahala's gear list
Nikon D7200 Nikon Z6 Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM Samyang 85mm F1.4 Aspherical IF Sigma 100-400mm F5-6.3 +12 more
Horshack Veteran Member • Posts: 8,680
Re: Take a look.

Timo Vahala wrote:

Three pics, shot back to back. AF switched off and with exact same settings, only with different framing. Results: banding in ONE.

It`s almost like there's on/off switch in a PDAF striping supression code, it can't be random. What triggers it?

Timo

Discussed here: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61856758

Timo Vahala
Timo Vahala Regular Member • Posts: 122
Thanks! I missed that thread. n/t

No text.

 Timo Vahala's gear list:Timo Vahala's gear list
Nikon D7200 Nikon Z6 Sigma 10-20mm F3.5 EX DC HSM Samyang 85mm F1.4 Aspherical IF Sigma 100-400mm F5-6.3 +12 more
Ulrich73 New Member • Posts: 10
Almsot perfectly repeatable under these conditions

Hello all, this is my first post in this forum, hope it can be useful to better understand the "banding" phenomenon that affects the Z6.

I have just bought a Z6 and I am testing it just to understand wheter banding is there and can be a true problem for me.

Banding is actually there, but only in very specific situation, at least in my experience. I noticed that it is almost always there when I shoot at 100ISO a close subject in good light surrounded by a more or less dark and almost completely blurred background due to limited depth of field (for example, shooting a close subject at wide aperture; in my case, 50s at 1.8). In these cases, the dark stripes are almost always there every time I try to push a bit the shadows, it is not necessary at all to push them much.

 Ulrich73's gear list:Ulrich73's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Rokinon 12mm F2.0 NCS CS
Virtual Photon Senior Member • Posts: 1,419
Re: Almsot perfectly repeatable under these conditions
1

Ulrich73 wrote:

Hello all, this is my first post in this forum, hope it can be useful to better understand the "banding" phenomenon that affects the Z6.

I have just bought a Z6 and I am testing it just to understand wheter banding is there and can be a true problem for me.

Banding is actually there, but only in very specific situation, at least in my experience. I noticed that it is almost always there when I shoot at 100ISO a close subject in good light surrounded by a more or less dark and almost completely blurred background due to limited depth of field (for example, shooting a close subject at wide aperture; in my case, 50s at 1.8). In these cases, the dark stripes are almost always there every time I try to push a bit the shadows, it is not necessary at all to push them much.

Post an image with exif.

 Virtual Photon's gear list:Virtual Photon's gear list
Nikon D500 Olympus PEN-F Nikon Z7 Nikon Z6 Nikon Z50 +12 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads