Panasonic GX800/GX850 or Olympus E-PL9 or...

I am in search for an always carrying around MFT camera. So that it means that I need it to be as small as possible. I have seen those two cameras that seems to meet that requirement. I want some video capabilities but it will be good to have something acceptable when it is needed. Not having a viewfinder is not something bothering. What I have seen here and there between those two:

Panasonic Pros:

1. Very small, light and thin. It fits in pockets of different sizes more than any other recent MFT camera.
2. It has DFD for focusing.
3. The Panasonic 12-32mm pancake lens is from what I have seen the best collapsible zoom MFT lens.
4. Panasonic has more lenses available, many of those being good ones. Compatibility with them is for sure (aperture change through them as an example).
5. It has a screen that goes all the way up.
6. It directly charges with a USB cable.

Panasonic Cons:

1. You cannot adjust setting while video recording.
2. 4K video can cause overheat easily (I am not sure if FHD video can cause this also)
3. Only optical stabilization. Panasonic 12-32mm offers satisfactory stabilization.
4. Maximum mechanical shutter is 1/500 s.

Olympus Pros:

1. It has in body stabilization. Every lens can be stabilized. It is even better than the optical of Panasonic 12-32mm.
2. It has highlight and shadow metering.
3. You can change setting during video recording.
4. The screen can rotate both up and all the way down.
5. 4K video doesn't overheat.
6. Maximum mechanical shutter is 1/4000 s.

Olympus Cons:

1. It has simple CDAF. Though playing with E-M10 II/III, I didn't notice quite a difference on stationary objects. I do not know what is the real difference.
2. The Olympus 14-42mm pancake lens is mediocre.
3. It is a little bigger, but not so much.

Video is something to consider but maybe I can live without having the best. The biggest give or take of each option at the moment seem to be the size, the kit lens included and the in body stabilization.

A GX80/GX85 would be a good option (having both dual image stabilization and the Panasonic 12-32mm), but I have found it to be quite large and thick. Even E-M10 II/III seem smaller with the exception of the viewfinder bump. Also it doesn't have a flipping screen which I found a plus for an every day usage. I think Panasonic has missed actually to provide a smaller body without a viewfinder, but with image stabilization and flipping screen. After the merge of GX80/GX85 and GX8 with the GX9 release, a GX90 could be something like that?

Please provide your experience or other things to consider that they are not in the debate (IQ, ergonomics, easy of use, AF performance, face/eye recognition).

That seems like a fair summary.

I use a GX850 as my main camera. I also have a GX9, which is a very nice camera, but is much too brick like for my liking for general use. When I've used the GX9, the GX850 just feels amazingly small by comparison (which is why I got it in the first place).

I would love a GX850 with stabilization (and Bluetooth), so I've had a look at the EPL-9 specs, and I'm awaiting full specs for the EPL-10. The EPL stabilization is a less sophisticated 3 axis stabilization, as opposed to 5 axis in the GX9 and other cameras. Getting stabilization in a small body is going to be a difficult problem, I assume the 3 axis stabilization is a compromise to get it in. I'm hoping Panasonic can fit something similar in the GF11/GX900/GX950, which I've been eagerly awaiting all year.

The EPL-9 has some annoying deficiencies, like silent being a separate mode, not just something you can turn on. The EPL-10 size (on paper) looks like it might be doable, somewhere between the GX850 and GX9, but then on paper I thought I might get on a with a GX9.

I also like the controls on the GX850 (I prefer them to the GX9) and I'm suspicious of moving to Olympus, just because I like the way Panasonics work.

Another limitation of the GX850 is a somewhat pathetic 1/50 flash sync. I also just learnt that the GX850 only does EFC (electronic front curtain) shutter because it only has one shutter blade, it's a very stripped down shutter mechanism. The GX9 on the other had seems to have a very nice shutter mechanism (1/2000 mechanical, 1/200 flash), but does suffer from shuttershock, and has no EFC option (which is the cure for shuttershock).

The GX850 of course has no hotshoe for external flash. I hav successfully use the built in to trigger a slaved external flash, but the GX9 has a very sophisticated flash system. I'm not sure how that compares with the EPL cameras.

You can use other lenses apart from the kit lens. The 12-32 is a very nice lens, and I use it for about half my shots. The stabilization helps a lot, I can handhold 12mm down to about 0.5s. On the other hand, the GX9 IBIS can stabilize my 20/1.7 (small and highly recommended) down to about 1s.

I haven't used video very much on the GX850. 4k is fun to play with for getting stills, like a 30 fps drive mode. It does overheat. For video, I'll usually use 1080p and I don't think it's overheated on me (but I haven't used it much).

I haven't used the face detection AF much, it turns on when taking a selfie. It's good when it works, but is a little hit and miss.

Barry Twycross wrote:

I would love a GX850 with stabilization (and Bluetooth), so I've had a look at the EPL-9 specs, and I'm awaiting full specs for the EPL-10.

The E-PL10 I think is already out. I can't find any differences though except the colors. Black version is completely black as an example.

The EPL stabilization is a less sophisticated 3 axis stabilization, as opposed to 5 axis in the GX9 and other cameras.

Still I think it is enough from nothing.

The EPL-9 has some annoying deficiencies, like silent being a separate mode, not just something you can turn on.

I will check it, thanks.

The EPL-10 size (on paper) looks like it might be doable, somewhere between the GX850 and GX9, but then on paper I thought I might get on a with a GX9.

Maybe that it is the minimum size without heat issues?

Another limitation of the GX850 is a somewhat pathetic 1/50 flash sync.

I had forgotten this. This means that there is some limitation on lens usage with flash.

The GX850 of course has no hotshoe for external flash.

I had forgotten this, but I do not intend to have something external attached.

I haven't used video very much on the GX850. 4k is fun to play with for getting stills, like a 30 fps drive mode. It does overheat. For video, I'll usually use 1080p and I don't think it's overheated on me (but I haven't used it much).

Nice to hear.

Tom Axford wrote:

A pro of the GX800/850 that you did not mention is that the mechanical shutter is exceptionally quiet, so there is much less need to use the electronic shutter. Also, the mechanical shutter is EFC (electronic front curtain), so it is totally free from shutter shock.

Nice to hear. Thanks.

morinor wrote:

Barry Twycross wrote:

I would love a GX850 with stabilization (and Bluetooth), so I've had a look at the EPL-9 specs, and I'm awaiting full specs for the EPL-10.

The E-PL10 I think is already out. I can't find any differences though except the colors. Black version is completely black as an example.

The EPL-9 has some annoying deficiencies, like silent being a separate mode, not just something you can turn on.

I will check it, thanks.

I read and I checked that the E-PL10 addresses this deficiency. You are able to select the silent mode separately or if you select a shutter speed greater than 1/4000 s. You can even use flash, but it is limited on 1/20s. You can use it for sequential shooting which reaches 14.1 fps (yeah .1 :-D).

I have no experiences with the Panasonic cameras.  The last Olympus PL model I owned was the PL-5 and from there I went to the E M-10 and E M-10 Mark II.  From my point of view, the biggest reason to consider the M-10 is the added control buttons and the overall ergonomics.  I really felt it was a huge step moving from the PL 5 to the M-10 just for the ability to make so many adjustments with the camera held up to my eye.

Yes, the M-10 is larger and heavier than a  PL-9 or 10, but if you use it with a prime lens, you can minimize size and weight. And, the 14-42 kit lens (not EZEE) is a decent lens.

But, if your priority is for a compact camera that will fit in most pockets, than you don't want to go with the M-10.  When looking at cameras, I'd be concerned with IBIS and how the controls are setup and ease of use when shooting.

scbwr wrote:

I have no experiences with the Panasonic cameras. The last Olympus PL model I owned was the PL-5 and from there I went to the E M-10 and E M-10 Mark II. From my point of view, the biggest reason to consider the M-10 is the added control buttons and the overall ergonomics. I really felt it was a huge step moving from the PL 5 to the M-10 just for the ability to make so many adjustments with the camera held up to my eye.

I would for sure appreciate those if they were existing in a smaller package. Basically without the EVF. It will not be my main camera, but just an everyday camera to have with me. So I am not worry so much not having this crucial second dial as I have with my DSLR.

Yes, the M-10 is larger and heavier than a PL-9 or 10, but if you use it with a prime lens, you can minimize size and weight. And, the 14-42 kit lens (not EZEE) is a decent lens.

But, if your priority is for a compact camera that will fit in most pockets, than you don't want to go with the M-10. When looking at cameras, I'd be concerned with IBIS and how the controls are setup and ease of use when shooting.

I need the camera to be able to fit in a pocket. M-10 although small the bump of the viewfinder makes it less possible to fit.

IBIS is something I consider, but I know it is not a panacea. It needs to consider its limitation and how it can affects the pictures that you take due to relaxation of slower speed usage. I think though that it has great value for long lenses above 25mm (50mm equivalent).

morinor wrote:

IBIS is something I consider, but I know it is not a panacea. It needs to consider its limitation and how it can affects the pictures that you take due to relaxation of slower speed usage. I think though that it has great value for long lenses above 25mm (50mm equivalent).

All my lenses above 25mm are stabilized in them selves. IBIS is most useful for me for my 20mm and less. At the weekend it was useful with the 20 and the 7-14 at 7mm.