Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

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ZodiacPhoto
ZodiacPhoto Senior Member • Posts: 2,796
Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

How would you understand this suggestion from Sony  (last suggestion on that page):

- Are there things I can do to obtain a sharper image when shooting using a tripod?

If using heavy lens, to prevent camera shake, fix the camera itself with a tripod or monopod, instead of using just a tripod-mounting collar for the lens.

Do they suggest that it is better to mount the camera body on the tripod, instead of the lens collar (if the re is one)? Or there is a way to attach BOTH camera body and lens collar to the tripod, with a long plate or something similar?

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Sailor Blue
Sailor Blue Forum Pro • Posts: 15,349
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

When you mount the camera with a heavy lens directly on the the ball head the weight of the lens produces a lever arm that pulls the lens down. The tripod mounting system can then creep so your image is no longer properly composed or it can even fail, resulting in the camera rotating downward until it is pointing at the ground.  I have had both things happen.

The idea of using a lens collar is that the camera and lens are mounted with the center of gravity over the tripod.   This eliminates the lever arm so that the tripod mounting is stable.

Unfortunately mounting at the center of gravity makes that point a pivot point around which the camera can move so that camera shake is magnified.

The best answer is to mount with the lens collar and use a 2-second or longer shutter delay to allow any shake from the shutter to decay away.

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HRC2016 Senior Member • Posts: 5,199
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

Good advice there.

On a related note, avoid the pistol grips that screw on to your len's tripod mount. They don't work.

Your len's tripod mount is positioned for when there is nothing supporting the body. With a pistol grip you use two hands, including one to hold the body.

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Ellis Vener
Ellis Vener Forum Pro • Posts: 12,675
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

ZodiacPhoto wrote:

How would you understand this suggestion from Sony (last suggestion on that page):

- Are there things I can do to obtain a sharper image when shooting using a tripod?

If using heavy lens, to prevent camera shake, fix the camera itself with a tripod or monopod, instead of using just a tripod-mounting collar for the lens.

Do they suggest that it is better to mount the camera body on the tripod, instead of the lens collar (if the re is one)? Or there is a way to attach BOTH camera body and lens collar to the tripod, with a long plate or something similar?

There are ways to support both a camera and a long lens. Usually the lens mounts to the tripod because with small format cameras and long telephoto lens is usually heavier, and there is a secondary support for the camera body

The first I encountered the idea of support both a lens and a camera body it was in a book on photography technique by Andreas Feininger that I borrowed from a photographer I worked for.AF wrote he used a bipod attached to a tripod when using a telephoto lens on his 4x5 view camera. In that case the body of the camera mounted on a the tripod and the bipod supported the front of the lens.

i have used a couple methods to support both a big lens and a camera body simultaneously. One method is to use a Manfrotto Magic Arm supporting the camera on one end and the other end there is a Manfrotto SuperClamp attached to the tripod. With this set up I’ve also draped a small sandbag over the lens to absolutely kill vibration. The problem with this setup is once it is set plan on not changing the position of the camera rapidly.

The other solution is a long rail that supports the camera body on one end and at the other end there is a “Y” shaped support to hold up the front lens. More practically the lenses tripod mount is mounted to the rail and the “Y” support holds up the front end of the lens. The advantage of this set up is that it is easy to rotate the camera and lens to level the roll angle or go from “landscape” to “portrait orientation.

For maximum stability use either a cable release or an electronic wireless release to snap the shutter. With very long lenses these days I use the last technique and the rail is mounted to a  fluid type tripod head designed for video work.

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David5833 Senior Member • Posts: 1,264
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

Not that it proves anything, but I can't remember ever reading that advice or seeing anyone doing that with a long lens. In any case, I'd rather use the collar and have it all balanced better, especially if using a ball head, and it probably wouldn't work at all on a gimbal.

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NancyP Veteran Member • Posts: 6,430
long lens support?

Photo of an example of a lens barrel support attachment for a supertelephoto lens:

http://www.hejnarphotostore.com/product-p/llsp-n200-500-1.htm

You always want your gear's center of gravity to be over the center axis of the tripod, in order to achieve maximal stability.

I don't have a lens long and heavy enough to bother using the setup above. My largest lens is 10" long and 2.5 pounds (a 400mm f5.6). I just use an Arca-type rail attached to its lens foot, and slide it back and forth until I reach the center of gravity on my gimbal setup.

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ZodiacPhoto
OP ZodiacPhoto Senior Member • Posts: 2,796
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?
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Ellis Vener
Ellis Vener Forum Pro • Posts: 12,675
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

ZodiacPhoto wrote:

Ellis Vener wrote:

https://siruiprofessionaltripods.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/vh350_5.jpg

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images500x500/Manfrotto_359_359_Long_Lens_Support_554349.jpg

https://www.proaim.be/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/960x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/m/o/movofilms-hunt-lens-support.jpg

https://www.guyedwardes.com/images/uploads/articles/1593/articlespage006-2__standard.jpg

https://4.img-dpreview.com/files/p/TS560x560~forums/51926897/2b2c7eb48d75407d9149583e8477bbde

Thanks Ellis,

I've never seen these contraptions used with my own eyes. Also, my longest lens is PanaLeica 100-400mm, it is not heavy or large enough to warrant such support.

You’re welcome. The last time I used mine (I have the Really Right Stuff version because I already owned an RRS CB-10 heavy duty rail as part of my panorama and macro kit) was with a Sigma  50-600mm on a Canon EOS 5DS. They are most useful for filming video or when photographing stills in low light. Some cinema cameras and lenses require them because the lenses can be massive and the production can’t have the image jiggling as that ruins continuity.  In my experience these rigs are best used with fluid damped video heads.

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David5833 Senior Member • Posts: 1,264
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

Those are examples of stabilizing the lens and the camera body as more or less a single unit, not examples where the camera body is fixed on the tripod with a heavy lens. I have used a long Arca-type base plate with a cut-up eraser wedged between the plate and a fixed part of the lens to make a DIY version of those kinds of rigs and it seems to help. However, that is not what Sony appeared to be advising when they said to use the camera socket instead of the lens collar.

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Ellis Vener
Ellis Vener Forum Pro • Posts: 12,675
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

However, that is not what Sony appeared to be advising when they said to use the camera socket instead of the lens collar.

Using the camera’s tripod mount instead of a lenses is not how I read Sony’s advice:

  • If using heavy lens, to prevent camera shake, fix the camera itself with a tripod or monopod, instead of using just a tripod-mounting collar for the lens.”

the operative word there is “just”. It would have been much clearer if Sony had used the word “only” instead of “just”.

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David5833 Senior Member • Posts: 1,264
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

Ellis Vener wrote:

However, that is not what Sony appeared to be advising when they said to use the camera socket instead of the lens collar.

Using the camera’s tripod mount instead of a lenses is not how I read Sony’s advice:

  • If using heavy lens, to prevent camera shake, fix the camera itself with a tripod or monopod, instead of using just a tripod-mounting collar for the lens.”

the operative word there is “just”. It would have been much clearer if Sony had used the word “only” instead of “just”.

My take was "fix camera itself...instead of using tripod collar" and that didn't make sense.

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Ellis Vener
Ellis Vener Forum Pro • Posts: 12,675
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

Probably because it doesn't make sense.

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jan pawlak Contributing Member • Posts: 593
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

My way of mounting a long lens on a tripod

And a picture from such a set, windy weather, 4 sec

Sharp enough, I think

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Ellis Vener
Ellis Vener Forum Pro • Posts: 12,675
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

Yes that is how most of us still photographers do it. It certainly how I mostly do it

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TheBlackGrouse
TheBlackGrouse Senior Member • Posts: 3,142
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

Quote: If using heavy lens, to prevent camera shake, fix the camera itself with a tripod or monopod, instead of using just a tripod-mounting collar for the lens.

If using heavy lens, to ruin your bayonet mount, fix the camera itself.

They are talking about a heavy lens. Admittedly, it is very rare that a lens will fall on the ground but metal fatigue is the problem.

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PerTulip Senior Member • Posts: 1,166
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

I guess since Sony also makes video cameras, where it's common to support both the lens and the camera....this made it into the manual. Yes, there are contraptions that allow you to support both the DSLR and the lens collar....no, never saw any difference.

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moficera Regular Member • Posts: 337
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

TheBlackGrouse wrote:

Quote: If using heavy lens, to prevent camera shake, fix the camera itself with a tripod or monopod, instead of using just a tripod-mounting collar for the lens.

If using heavy lens, to ruin your bayonet mount, fix the camera itself.

They are talking about a heavy lens. Admittedly, it is very rare that a lens will fall on the ground but metal fatigue is the problem.

It says to use two independent supports for the lens and camera. With one tripod you have one pivot point for all vibrations, with a second support it is much more stable.

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TheBlackGrouse
TheBlackGrouse Senior Member • Posts: 3,142
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

moficera wrote:

TheBlackGrouse wrote:

Quote: If using heavy lens, to prevent camera shake, fix the camera itself with a tripod or monopod, instead of using just a tripod-mounting collar for the lens.

If using heavy lens, to ruin your bayonet mount, fix the camera itself.

They are talking about a heavy lens. Admittedly, it is very rare that a lens will fall on the ground but metal fatigue is the problem.

It says to use two independent supports for the lens and camera. With one tripod you have one pivot point for all vibrations, with a second support it is much more stable.

Fair enough but it's not what the OP mentioned.

The first replies were about vibrations and balance, the metal fatigue was not mentioned. That said my reply was a bit late 

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TheBlackGrouse
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moficera Regular Member • Posts: 337
Re: Attaching camera body instead of lens collar to tripod?

TheBlackGrouse wrote:

moficera wrote:

TheBlackGrouse wrote:

Quote: If using heavy lens, to prevent camera shake, fix the camera itself with a tripod or monopod, instead of using just a tripod-mounting collar for the lens.

If using heavy lens, to ruin your bayonet mount, fix the camera itself.

They are talking about a heavy lens. Admittedly, it is very rare that a lens will fall on the ground but metal fatigue is the problem.

It says to use two independent supports for the lens and camera. With one tripod you have one pivot point for all vibrations, with a second support it is much more stable.

Fair enough but it's not what the OP mentioned.

The first replies were about vibrations and balance, the metal fatigue was not mentioned. That said my reply was a bit late

Its how to read it. As Ellis Vener pointed out it's about the little word 'just'.

'If using heavy lens, to prevent camera shake, fix the camera itself with a tripod or monopod, instead of using just a tripod-mounting collar for the lens.'

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