Colors are flat (indoors, Procapture, Oly M1.II)

I can't get control of this yet.

Look at the histogram: Only some 60% of the dynamic range is used, and I don't understand why.

This happens on the Olympus M1.II, especially in ProCapture silent mode (electronic shutter).  I experimented with light measuring on default (ESP) and center-weighted-average.   This is indoors with fluorescent lighting.

It's on shutter priority and Auto-ISO with a max of 6400.

The histogram does not fill out to the right, and I don't understand why.  Iso isn't maxed out (it's 1250), not even the background is properly exposed.

Any clues?

There are situations when the camera meter just fails for some reason. That's when you need to look at the histogram (when shooting) and dial in a few stops of correction.

I think the large light-colored background may throw off the camera, although it should not be that much. Generally, if your subject is darker in front of a lighter background, some +EV is needed, despite advanced metering modes.

Skeeterbytes wrote:

Definitely underexposed.

Agreed.

Is the meter perhaps reading the white(?) background and setting to that?

White backgrounds are always a problem, because the metering will try to expose it as a medium gray.  Exposure compensation becomes essential.

You can also have a problem with colors if you set the camera color space to anything other than sRGB.

What's your base curve? Maybe by some chance Darktable did not apply the default one it usually applies to Olympus raws?

In general, Olympus sets up their cameras to protect highlights. The base curve is very steep to stretch the middles while maintaining highlights. But that also is a massive waste for scenes of low dynamic range.

Also, like others have noted, it's very likely your shots are simply underexposed, on account of that light background that would trick the metering.

BTW, I have a permanently set 2/3 stops metering bias on my E-M1 II and I very rarely need to use negative exposure compensation. This saves me the trouble of worrying about situations like yours.

I agree, it definitely looks underexposed.

I just can not understand why. With automatic metering it should expose so the darkest part is black and the brightest part is just maxed out. I would never expect it to expose from grey to grey.

Background: Thanks for the tip of looking at the background - it does indeed expose as uniform grey when it's in fact nearly white.

Basecurve: Answers on valid questions: Darktable Alternate Olympus basecurve. It picks this one by default. Usually on single shots, or outdoors, this works fine.

Here is another shot which worked out a lot better. This is again Procapture Electronic shutter, but the background is slightly different - not a uniform white-ish color but largely unlit spectator seats.
Shot has the same metering mode as the other one - center weighted average.
There is still a considerable grey wall below the seats.
Actually that wall really is grey, not near-white like the other one.  
Note there is a very over-exposed light in the background - the camera clearly does not take that as a reference for exposing the rest of the image.

Actually, most shots from this location had their histograms filled out quite well.

techie takes pics wrote:

I agree, it definitely looks underexposed.

I just can not understand why. With automatic metering it should expose so the darkest part is black and the brightest part is just maxed out. I would never expect it to expose from grey to grey.

Ideally, that's exactly how it would work - automatic ETTR.  Somehow the camera makers haven't figured out yet that that would be a good thing.  Of course that wouldn't be perfect either, as your example shows - a bright light really should be overexposed most of the time, and the camera has no way to know that.

Since assuming the meter is pointed to a medium brightness object has worked good enough for so long, it seems it's not going to change any time soon.  It's up to you to know when exposure compensation is required.

techie takes pics wrote:

I agree, it definitely looks underexposed.

I just can not understand why. With automatic metering it should expose so the darkest part is black and the brightest part is just maxed out. I would never expect it to expose from grey to grey.

Background: Thanks for the tip of looking at the background - it does indeed expose as uniform grey when it's in fact nearly white.

Basecurve: Answers on valid questions: Darktable Alternate Olympus basecurve. It picks this one by default. Usually on single shots, or outdoors, this works fine.

Here is another shot which worked out a lot better. This is again Procapture Electronic shutter, but the background is slightly different - not a uniform white-ish color but largely unlit spectator seats.
Shot has the same metering mode as the other one - center weighted average.
There is still a considerable grey wall below the seats.
Actually that wall really is grey, not near-white like the other one.
Note there is a very over-exposed light in the background - the camera clearly does not take that as a reference for exposing the rest of the image.

Actually, most shots from this location had their histograms filled out quite well.

The difference here is that your subject fills a larger part of the frame, and therefore the camera meter/logic has something to grab besides the background.

Plus, as you say, this wall is grey, so it will be exposed correctly. Exposure is (and should) not always (be) maxed out between shadow and highlight. There is some averaging going on, sometimes you end up with underexposed shots, sometimes overexposed highlights. Sometimes you need to dial in +EV, and sometimes, like in this example, the overexposed light doesn't matter. In a different shot, it may, and then it is time for -EV.

stateit wrote:

There is certainly one constant in your images. The background. The second constant I'd imagine throughout each routine as well is the lighting. Each set of apparatus is constant for each routine as well.

Near perfect photographic bliss.

So the only thing that changes really is the subject doing the routine.

Spot Meter for the background to show as the white it is (I'd guess EV+1.5).
Or find a mid-grey or neutral tone somewhere to spot meter from with +/- 0 EV.

Press the A-EL button to set exposure lock, then snap (or Pro-Capture) away.

It won't matter if the subject comes out wearing all black, all white, or wearing pink and green polka dots. All your exposures will be good.

Very good point, Very obvious but I hadn't considered it yet.  I was focussing too much on getting the auto-exposure to work correctly.

It would be the same if I simply dialled in a manual exposure, I guess?

Skeeterbytes wrote:

Definitely underexposed. I wonder if ProCapture is having issues with the fluorescent lights strobing? Are you using PC low or high? High locks everything at first frame while low adjusts focus and IIRC exposure during the sequence.

Is the meter perhaps reading the white(?) background and setting to that?

Do you have any standard high-speed drive sequences to compare against? My experience under stadium lights is adjacent frames showing variations in both exposure and color balance due to light cycling. I don't use Pro Capture for sports so cannot compare directly. For this setting I'd probably set exposure in M mode and either anti-shock low or e-shutter low drive, C-AF with lock at +2.

Good sleuthing!

Rick

Agree. Way underexposed. With that huge white background, pull it up at least 2 stops. Better yet, ignore the meter and adjust exposure by watching LV in the EVF (or display).

It is RAW, and there is enough detail, to recapture the moment by pulling up the exposure in the well-respected Dark Table (which I've never used).

Skeeterbytes wrote:

Definitely underexposed. I wonder if ProCapture is having issues with the fluorescent lights strobing? Are you using PC low or high? High locks everything at first frame while low adjusts focus and IIRC exposure during the sequence.

Is the meter perhaps reading the white(?) background and setting to that?

Do you have any standard high-speed drive sequences to compare against? My experience under stadium lights is adjacent frames showing variations in both exposure and color balance due to light cycling. I don't use Pro Capture for sports so cannot compare directly. For this setting I'd probably set exposure in M mode and either anti-shock low or e-shutter low drive, C-AF with lock at +2.

Good sleuthing!

Rick

I don't use Olympus bodies so have no knowledge on Pro Capture.

AFAIK Pro Capture is sort of high speed shooting similar (but in different method of handling) to the 4K/6K Photo mode of Panasonic?

Under the 4K/6K Photo modes, shooter has the absolute power to control the setting like still shooting. So, it is making use of the P/S/A/M video mode, 30/60 fps shooting speed, e-shutter and saves the output in MP4.

If Pro Capture operates similarly (except using still burst shooting instead of video footage fps, output in RAW + jpg instead of MP4), no reason the sort of underexposure will happen (save for shooter setting error). So, does Pro Capture operates in similar operation as Panasonic's 4K/6K photo mode or on automatic only?

alcelc wrote:

Skeeterbytes wrote:

Definitely underexposed. I wonder if ProCapture is having issues with the fluorescent lights strobing? Are you using PC low or high? High locks everything at first frame while low adjusts focus and IIRC exposure during the sequence.

Is the meter perhaps reading the white(?) background and setting to that?

Do you have any standard high-speed drive sequences to compare against? My experience under stadium lights is adjacent frames showing variations in both exposure and color balance due to light cycling. I don't use Pro Capture for sports so cannot compare directly. For this setting I'd probably set exposure in M mode and either anti-shock low or e-shutter low drive, C-AF with lock at +2.

Good sleuthing!

Rick

I don't use Olympus bodies so have no knowledge on Pro Capture.

If Pro Capture operates similarly (except using still burst shooting instead of video footage fps, output in RAW + jpg instead of MP4), no reason the sort of underexposure will happen (save for shooter setting error). So, does Pro Capture operates in similar operation as Panasonic's 4K/6K photo mode or on automatic only?

ProCapture is a total photo mode. AF, exposure, mechanical or electronic shutter - the works. 
It starts making photos when you half-press the button but only keeps them buffered. When you full-press it writes the pictures to the card.
Usecase: I see a gymnast getting ready for a jump. I half-press the SB. Camera starts shooting at 15FPS, with autofocus on every frame. She waits, thinks, pauzes... you get the idea. And then she jumps.  
I think 'Good jump' and gently press the SB. 
The camera now saves 10 frames from before I pressed the button.
Even though the exact moment surprised me, I have the entire jump captured at 15FPS. In Raw.

Had I done this on normal continous mode, it would have written 30-50 seconds of useless pictures to the SD card. At 15FPS.

Thanks for the info. It reinforce my understanding on Pro Capture. It is doing in similar principle of the Pre Burst mode of Panny's 4K/6K Photo mode.

So, if the exposure parameters had been set right you should have a perfectly exposed sequence of image.

From clueless to Techie,

What was the light inside these doors? What was WB and Color space? Maybe my questions bring some clue

And, if you post your question with RETOUCH forum, you have a great chance to get amazing explanations and solutions.

Cheers

s_grins wrote:

From clueless to Techie,

What was the light inside these doors? What was WB and Color space? Maybe my questions bring some clue

And, if you post your question with RETOUCH forum, you have a great chance to get amazing explanations and solutions.

Cheers

The light was fluorescent lighting (those tube lights).  I used auto white balance and I shot in Raw.   The color space (which I think is relevant to Jpeg, not to Raw) is sRGB.  I export the Raw to Adobe color space when I want to print.

The retouching is not really the problem, it's more that I have many dozens of photographs which all are improperly exposed and I have to do a correction step on all of them.   So it's the extra manual step, plus the feeling I am not getting the dynamic range out of the picture.

The correction step I do is to open 'levels' and click 'auto'; Darktable then changes the black and white references so the information in the image is using the entire possible range.  The histogram is stretched out so it reaches from end to end - but this step simply uses the color space - it can not create color-information that was not there.

Thanks for your reply, hope I managed to answer your question.