Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...

Started 4 days ago | Discussions
TRIODEROB Veteran Member • Posts: 3,429
Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
10

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

if Sony can be a leader in such hi tech areas as sensor development and eye focus , why cant they get the hand grip, portrait color science and an intuitive menu system right ???

just to be clear … I am not saying these things  - but just look for yourself on the other forums at the number of Sony owners reaching out as they are about to eBay their Sony systems and buy Nikon, Canon R or Fuji

GrapeJam
GrapeJam Senior Member • Posts: 2,939
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
7

TRIODEROB wrote:

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

if Sony can be a leader in such hi tech areas as sensor development and eye focus , why cant they get the hand grip, portrait color science and an intuitive menu system right ???

They got the hand grip right with the latest generation A7 and A9, I've tried the R4 and it felt great, not as good as the EOS R but imo better than the Nikon Z, the buttons also felt great and way more logically placed than the EOS R.

They got the color science right with the Venice color science which when compared to Canon I actually found myself preferring the Venice color science most of the times. So Sony definitely know how to get great colors and skin tones, it's just that for some reason they're not putting it in their alpha cameras.

As for the menu thing, I actually found it way better than Nikon, and over time I got used to it.

 GrapeJam's gear list:GrapeJam's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM Canon EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM Sigma 35mm F1.4 DG HSM Art Canon EF 16-35mm F4L IS USM +1 more
onlyfreeman
onlyfreeman Senior Member • Posts: 1,837
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
2

I'll complain about those things once I finish complaining about the price.

 onlyfreeman's gear list:onlyfreeman's gear list
Sony a7 II Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 III FastStone Photo Resizer Paint.net
FujLiver
FujLiver Contributing Member • Posts: 781
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
24

TRIODEROB wrote:

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

if Sony can be a leader in such hi tech areas as sensor development and eye focus , why cant they get the hand grip, portrait color science and an intuitive menu system right ???

just to be clear … I am not saying these things - but just look for yourself on the other forums at the number of Sony owners reaching out as they are about to eBay their Sony systems and buy Nikon, Canon R or Fuji

The A7 system is beautifully designed. It’s ergonomics are the best on the market for a compact FF camera IMHO

the menu is not great but not awful. After a day you learn it

the controls are great. Well placed, quality materials, well designed. A pleasure to use

the colours are especially good in the iii and iv models. Sony has very neutral colours which allows you to keep or configure. It doesn’t play the saturation game other companies do. If you want wizard of oz colours strait out of the camera then Sony is not for you

I don’t think any of the above reasons cause anyone to leave Sony, but people have personal preferences and sometimes like a change. Also they might like a lens on another system

as a big user of the minimalist Leica M system and other great handling systems, including the Leica SL, Nikon D800, Canon 5Dii and numerous great film SLRs, I can say the Sony A7 series, especially the iii and ivs, are amongst the best cameras ever made for ergonomics, usage and results. Of course there is always room for improvement. Waiting for the 1 terabyte sensor

There is no accounting for taste ...

-- hide signature --

"No photograph survives first contact with the subject"

 FujLiver's gear list:FujLiver's gear list
Sony a7R III Leica CL Canon EF 50mm F1.8 II Leica TL 18mm F2.8 Sony FE 35mm F1.8
Trollmannx Senior Member • Posts: 5,711
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
9

Ergonomics - a small camera can be made bigger but a big camera can not be made smaller. Most do not even need a grip. Add a grip if having grizzly size hands. 

Menu systems - Sony offer lots of options missing from the competition. Just set up MyMenu and the fn-button and the menu system becomes better than what the competition offer. Would rather have options and the possibility to set up a camera to fit personal style than having a limited menu system. Sony is different, something still not grasped by some. 

Controls - just use them. Works fine once adapted. Use Canon and Sony cameras and actually find the Sony camera more comfortable to use in the dark. In broad daylight one is as good as the other. If not willing to learn (rigid, stubborn, plain stupid) just stay with your existing system - and never change an iota. 

Colors - well, out of camera JPGs are very good but does not please all. Prefer Sony color to Canon color here. Others see colors different. RAW is a matter of which converter is used anyway, so that is not relevant on this one. 

Seems like Sony is a well beloved system and actual users are generally satisfied. Actually very satisfied!

Until recently they were not even in the camera business and now they have disrupted the entire market and created new business opportunities all over the place. What did the competition do - they just made the same product over and over again - no innovation and no drive - just stagnating and protecting their own buisiness model.

After all Nikon and Canon were expected to (according to quite a few eager fans) kill Sony with superior products - and the competition still lag severely behind...

And finally - where are all those leaving Sony? Not to be found in the financial reports...

JRP64
JRP64 Contributing Member • Posts: 837
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
13

TRIODEROB wrote:

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

if Sony can be a leader in such hi tech areas as sensor development and eye focus , why cant they get the hand grip, portrait color science and an intuitive menu system right ???

just to be clear … I am not saying these things - but just look for yourself on the other forums at the number of Sony owners reaching out as they are about to eBay their Sony systems and buy Nikon, Canon R or Fuji

I never really understood this kind of thinking as to me I rather have a camera that take great pictures than a camera that feels like a silk glove. There's nothing wrong with the menu system or controls as it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the menus and the controls a pretty standard for a camera. In my opinion "color science" is "junk science" for 99 percent of photographers. If you don't like the feel of the Sony camera then buy a battery grip or extender to fit your hand better or you should had bought a different camera in the first place. I'm a Sony person, but I'm sure Canon, Nikon, Fuji, etc... are just as nice cameras with their own pros and cons.

 JRP64's gear list:JRP64's gear list
Sony a9 Sony a7R III Sony FE 90mm F2.8 macro Zeiss Batis 25mm F2 Sony FE 85mm F1.8 +5 more
mujana Veteran Member • Posts: 6,252
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
7

TRIODEROB wrote:

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

if Sony can be a leader in such hi tech areas as sensor development and eye focus , why cant they get the hand grip, portrait color science and an intuitive menu system right ???

just to be clear … I am not saying these things - but just look for yourself on the other forums at the number of Sony owners reaching out as they are about to eBay their Sony systems and buy Nikon, Canon R or Fuji

I can only agree with FujLiver.

From my personal experience: (now A7RIV)

- Ergonomics is perfect

- menu system is no problem at all; once set up, you hardly ever need to dive deep into the menu system. Easy set up in only a few hours.

- controls ...layout, tactile feel and usefulness ...all perfect. Nothing less. I also like it, that almost every knob and dial can be set to personal taste.

- colours also great. I used to use " Leica M9" colour setting in DXO PL 3. Now I only use A7RIV setting. Much better. Beside that I only shoot raw. Oops... not true; for the time being, I use my second UHS-2 slot for Jpegs (but that might change into backup raw).

I also see quite a few Canon/Nikon/ Olympus users going to Sony, for different reasons.

To me, the A7RIV is the best camera I ever had (including your 4 items).

 mujana's gear list:mujana's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Sony a7R IV Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Sony FE 16-35mm F2.8 +5 more
mujana Veteran Member • Posts: 6,252
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
1

JRP64 wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

if Sony can be a leader in such hi tech areas as sensor development and eye focus , why cant they get the hand grip, portrait color science and an intuitive menu system right ???

just to be clear … I am not saying these things - but just look for yourself on the other forums at the number of Sony owners reaching out as they are about to eBay their Sony systems and buy Nikon, Canon R or Fuji

I never really understood this kind of thinking as to me I rather have a camera that take great pictures than a camera that feels like a silk glove. There's nothing wrong with the menu system or controls as it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the menus and the controls a pretty standard for a camera. In my opinion "color science" is "junk science" for 99 percent of photographers. If you don't like the feel of the Sony camera then buy a battery grip or extender to fit your hand better or you should had bought a different camera in the first place. I'm a Sony person, but I'm sure Canon, Nikon, Fuji, etc... are just as nice cameras with their own pros and cons.

+1

 mujana's gear list:mujana's gear list
Sigma DP3 Merrill Sony a7R IV Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Sony FE 16-35mm F2.8 +5 more
PWPhotography Veteran Member • Posts: 8,778
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
3

Not again from you?

All these are very personal opinions and no common agreement. I am happy in all these areas. My only complaint of the loosening EC lock now fixed in the new gen with the EC lock. Just received A7r IV today so now I own 3 Sony FF cameras, very happy.

What prevent you from jumping the ship from Fuji? IQ is much better especially with A7r-series camera.  I have tried Fuji x-trans and GFX, never like the excessive physical dials.  It menu is very different, no better or worse, just different in every brand.

 PWPhotography's gear list:PWPhotography's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony a9 Sony a7R III Sony a7R IV Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye +18 more
JakeOfFinland New Member • Posts: 5
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
2

I have a6000 and watched videos of other models:

Menus are fine, maybe people that complain about the menus are same people that had problems with VHS record timers.

Mike Evangelist
Mike Evangelist Regular Member • Posts: 494
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
4

TRIODEROB wrote:

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

Sorry, but this is pure horse manure.

 Mike Evangelist's gear list:Mike Evangelist's gear list
Sony RX100 VI Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony a7R III Sony FE 24-105mm F4 Sony FE 24mm F1.4 GM +4 more
PWPhotography Veteran Member • Posts: 8,778
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
6

Mike Evangelist wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

Sorry, but this is pure horse manure.

In reality we have seen more and more Fuji x-trans owners jump to Sony FF bandwagon.

I don't understand why a few Fuji guys such as OP (one of them) frequently jumping into this Sony FE forum to provoke with such not very meaningful threads. If OP is interested in Sony just get one and many have changed mind since from we have read. If not, why even bother that sound lacking of confidence. I and most Sony FE owners don't need to jump over there to show off better IQ or challenging their design etc. Guess we have better thing to do - busy in taking photos

 PWPhotography's gear list:PWPhotography's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony a9 Sony a7R III Sony a7R IV Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye +18 more
Rol Lei Nut Veteran Member • Posts: 4,713
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
2

TRIODEROB wrote:

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

if Sony can be a leader in such hi tech areas as sensor development and eye focus , why cant they get the hand grip, portrait color science and an intuitive menu system right ???

just to be clear … I am not saying these things - but just look for yourself on the other forums at the number of Sony owners reaching out as they are about to eBay their Sony systems and buy Nikon, Canon R or Fuji

IMO those are non-problems.

Ergonomics are individual and subjective. There's no such thing as "one size fits all". A look at some of the threads discussing camera size will prove that.

The menu system is similar. Others may be more logical, but a lot is down to habit. Anyway, once the camera is set up, there's rarely a need to dive into the menu any more.

"Color science" for many is the PP software and how it's adjusted and used, not a characteristic of a camera.

Finally, I don't really care what some people are saying on forums (at least regarding such subjective matters).

Sony works well for me and I'm not bothered by those "problems" you mention.

lacix
lacix Contributing Member • Posts: 711
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
6

What a f........k you talking about?

-- hide signature --

(Please, be patient with my Hunglish, English is not my native language.)
UBL

 lacix's gear list:lacix's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM5 Sony a7R IV Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM Panasonic Leica DG Macro-Elmarit 45mm F2.8 ASPH OIS +9 more
OP TRIODEROB Veteran Member • Posts: 3,429
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
7

Mike Evangelist wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

Sorry, but this is pure horse manure.

oh really ?

why not take a look at the Canon R forum today as an example.

I don't mind if folks call BS on me - but at least have something to back it up if you do

PWPhotography Veteran Member • Posts: 8,778
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
7

TRIODEROB wrote:

Mike Evangelist wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

Sorry, but this is pure horse manure.

oh really ?

why not take a look at the Canon R forum today as an example.

I don't mind if folks call BS on me - but at least have something to back it up if you do

Why you should even care? Sony is not in your favor whatever, so move on to Canon or whatever or stay with Fuji that you seem quite happy

 PWPhotography's gear list:PWPhotography's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony a9 Sony a7R III Sony a7R IV Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye +18 more
OP TRIODEROB Veteran Member • Posts: 3,429
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
10

PW -

you are not in a position to instruct me what to do on the DP forum

we have talked about this before  - this is not actually YOUR web page or forum   - the idea being I  am under no obligation to please you.

if you notice the total number of threads created per year on the Sony forum you will see that I am involved with just a very tiny %

I am easy for you to avoid and suggest you do so

hungrylau Senior Member • Posts: 1,311
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
1

From my own personal experience, I find it quite difficult to navigate the menu when I have to do unfamiliar things (e.g. tethered shooting, remote shooting, flash, video). But if I am just taking simple portraits, family photos, sports/action photos, I have absolutely no issues with the controls, menus or ergonomics of the camera.

If you ever mount a loxia or any other manual lens on the camera, it is an absolute joy to use. Every single control you would ever want is accessible either through a custom button, the D pad, function menu or joystick. Same again if you have a simple AF lens like a 55mm f/1.8 or 1635 f/4.

Complex scenes with multiple things to focus on? Just use the touchscreen to focus on what you want. Don't like the touchscreen, just use the joystick on the back of the camera..

In regards to colour, yes, there are differences. But those differences are not gamebreakers when considering these systems as a whole. Others disagree, and that's fine. These are all good cameras with different strengths and weaknesses.

 hungrylau's gear list:hungrylau's gear list
Sony a7 III Sony FE 55mm F1.8 Sony Vario-Tessar T* FE 16-35mm F4 ZA OSS Zeiss Loxia 35 Zeiss Loxia 50
PWPhotography Veteran Member • Posts: 8,778
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
6

TRIODEROB wrote:

PW -

you are not in a position to instruct me what to do on the DP forum

we have talked about this before - this is not actually YOUR web page or forum - the idea being I am under no obligation to please you.

if you notice the total number of threads created per year on the Sony forum you will see that I am involved with just a very tiny %

I am easy for you to avoid and suggest you do so

But what is your point? You have asked or challenged these before several times, nothing changes since. I am not trying to restrain you as I simply don't have such power, but just asking your logic and motivation.

Seem you are not happy with all these Sony design/choice, so should move to another better option such as Canon?

Or waiting Sony forever to make changes to meet your perception that unlikely will happen. Each manufacturer has its own design and preference.

Thought you are quite happy in X-trans. Are you planning move to FF?

All these are personal preference as simply no common sense in photography world which brand/camera is better than others.

 PWPhotography's gear list:PWPhotography's gear list
Canon EOS-1D Mark III Sony a9 Sony a7R III Sony a7R IV Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye +18 more
Trollmannx Senior Member • Posts: 5,711
Re: Sony ergonomics, menu system, controls and colors ...
2

TRIODEROB wrote:

Mike Evangelist wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

seems like I read quite a number of threads where folks jump ship from Sony for those specific 4 items.

Sorry, but this is pure horse manure.

oh really ?

why not take a look at the Canon R forum today as an example.

I don't mind if folks call BS on me - but at least have something to back it up if you do

What? A horse...

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads