Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

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jack scholl
jack scholl Veteran Member • Posts: 4,253
Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .
2

Longtime LR ver 6.14 user with 100,000 file catalog, 1.3 GB of photo files (on an external SSD ) and use DxO PhotoLab for bad noise and UWA distortion (Viewpoint) files.  The DAM capabilities of LR have been a wonderful feature that has been used extensively.  But the Adobe subscription double cross makes it hard to trust anything they say about the future.

It seems like Apple has forced a decision on the future with the OS 64 bit incompatibility with 6.14.

So, have previously purchased Luminar 4, ON1Photo RAW 2019, used them in demo mode and have a trial ongoing with Exposure X5.

So far . . .

Luminar seems toy like . . . and ON1 seems much more capable, but both are woeful DAM's.  And after much dialog with both techs, hope is not very encouraging.  They seem to be focusing on other priorities for the future.

Exposure X5 has a very capable, if a bit clumsy, DAM that can replicate the keyword capabilities of LR.  Which is a big deal.  It is fast and shares many of ON1 strengths.

But it is a major commitment to devote enough time to get as familiar with X5 as I am with LR.  And while I read all sorts of interesting "features" that show up with the LR updates by Adobe in the subscription world, Adobe will likely be there longer than X5.

So pick a future nightmare . .  a DAM that is more likely to have a limited life span (X5) or one run by a company with very talented programmers and no soul.

OK, I have flushed my confused brain into the tread . . .

Any constructive comments or experience is welcome!

Thanks in advance,

Jack

 jack scholl's gear list:jack scholl's gear list
Sony RX10 IV Sony a6400 Sony Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* E 24mm F1.8 ZA Sony E 10-18mm F4 OSS Sony Vario-Tessar T* E 16-70mm F4 ZA OSS
Ysarex
Ysarex Senior Member • Posts: 2,497
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .
8

jack scholl wrote:

Longtime LR ver 6.14 user with 100,000 file catalog, 1.3 GB of photo files (on an external SSD ) and use DxO PhotoLab for bad noise and UWA distortion (Viewpoint) files. The DAM capabilities of LR have been a wonderful feature that has been used extensively. But the Adobe subscription double cross makes it hard to trust anything they say about the future.

It seems like Apple has forced a decision on the future with the OS 64 bit incompatibility with 6.14.

So, have previously purchased Luminar 4, ON1Photo RAW 2019, used them in demo mode and have a trial ongoing with Exposure X5.

So far . . .

Luminar seems toy like . . . and ON1 seems much more capable, but both are woeful DAM's. And after much dialog with both techs, hope is not very encouraging. They seem to be focusing on other priorities for the future.

Exposure X5 has a very capable, if a bit clumsy, DAM that can replicate the keyword capabilities of LR. Which is a big deal. It is fast and shares many of ON1 strengths.

But it is a major commitment to devote enough time to get as familiar with X5 as I am with LR. And while I read all sorts of interesting "features" that show up with the LR updates by Adobe in the subscription world, Adobe will likely be there longer than X5.

So pick a future nightmare . . a DAM that is more likely to have a limited life span (X5) or one run by a company with very talented programmers and no soul.

OK, I have flushed my confused brain into the tread . . .

Any constructive comments or experience is welcome!

Thanks in advance,

Jack

You got married a very long time ago. Shopping around for a new spouse and a divorce will be the biggest nightmare of your life. Stay married and give your spouse what he/she wants. The alimony checks will kill you.

jack scholl
OP jack scholl Veteran Member • Posts: 4,253
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

Really hits home . . . great post.

Celebrated our 55th in August and am one lucky guy!  But my Wife and Adobe have nothing in common!  And your point still has value . . .

Thank you,

Jack

 jack scholl's gear list:jack scholl's gear list
Sony RX10 IV Sony a6400 Sony Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* E 24mm F1.8 ZA Sony E 10-18mm F4 OSS Sony Vario-Tessar T* E 16-70mm F4 ZA OSS
ruhell Regular Member • Posts: 133
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .
1

Have a look at Idimager Photosupreme as an excellent DAM  tool.

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plaatje Contributing Member • Posts: 699
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

So pick a future nightmare . . a DAM that is more likely to have a limited life span (X5)

that’s the funniest reason I’ve heard to stay with some software. But if that bothers you, here is another one: “ who thought Kodak had a limited span?”
And what about hard disks, clouds, operating systems . . .
Yeah, life is a nightmare.

Sorry,

yes I know this reaction isn’t of any help, but I couldn’t resist and if it is of any importance, you really made us laughing.

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JLGF1
JLGF1 Contributing Member • Posts: 830
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .
2
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Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 17,034
digikam
6

You might try the very capable, free digikam DAM. Then have a separate raw processor. That way in the future if you change your raw processor you don't also have to change your DAM.

https://www.digikam.org/

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Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

nick101 Senior Member • Posts: 1,327
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

I've been looking for a decent DAM for ages (in my case, to replace Aperture). This is where I've got to so far:

If you want all-in-one (processing and DAM) and no subscription, the best options I've found are:

ACDSee - reasonable price, decent DAM functions, good processing, but no layer support in Mac version

Capture One - expensive, very powerful processing, very good DAM.

DXO claims DAM suctions but they're very weak (also, no Fuji support, if that's a factor)

If you can live with separate DAM and processing, you might want to look at Photo Mechanic Plus, currently in open beta. It has great potential but:

- Need Photo Mechanic (it's an add-on)

- Pcircing not yet known.

Mylio has a good rep as a DAM, but it's subscription

Hope that helps

 nick101's gear list:nick101's gear list
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IanYorke Veteran Member • Posts: 3,640
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

jack scholl wrote:

Longtime LR ver 6.14 user with 100,000 file catalog, 1.3 GB of photo files (on an external SSD ) and use DxO PhotoLab for bad noise and UWA distortion (Viewpoint) files. The DAM capabilities of LR have been a wonderful feature that has been used extensively. But the Adobe subscription double cross makes it hard to trust anything they say about the future.

It seems like Apple has forced a decision on the future with the OS 64 bit incompatibility with 6.14.

So, have previously purchased Luminar 4, ON1Photo RAW 2019, used them in demo mode and have a trial ongoing with Exposure X5.

So far . . .

Luminar seems toy like . . . and ON1 seems much more capable, but both are woeful DAM's. And after much dialog with both techs, hope is not very encouraging. They seem to be focusing on other priorities for the future.

Exposure X5 has a very capable, if a bit clumsy, DAM that can replicate the keyword capabilities of LR. Which is a big deal. It is fast and shares many of ON1 strengths.

But it is a major commitment to devote enough time to get as familiar with X5 as I am with LR. And while I read all sorts of interesting "features" that show up with the LR updates by Adobe in the subscription world, Adobe will likely be there longer than X5.

So pick a future nightmare . . a DAM that is more likely to have a limited life span (X5) or one run by a company with very talented programmers and no soul.

OK, I have flushed my confused brain into the tread . . .

Any constructive comments or experience is welcome!

Thanks in advance,

Jack

If dam is very important to you then separating the dam and raw processing would seem to be the obvious solution to avoid being caught in the same situation in the future if you use a combined raw processor /dam.

IMATCH seems to be the one I see mentioned most often.

https://www.photools.com/imatch/

Ian

olstrup Veteran Member • Posts: 3,781
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

ACDSee works well for me. For windows it comes in thre versions: Studio with just DAM, Pro with DAM and RAW converter and Ultimate with DAM, RAW converter and editor (including layers). Roundtrips to other applications easy. It allows you to work on files directly from the file systen without importing them in the ACDSee database. The Mac version is not as capable as Ultimate but I use Win so I have no personal experiences with it.

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"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." (Henri Cartier-Bresson)

Hans de Zomers Regular Member • Posts: 351
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

I favor separating DAM and editing. Compare it with the all-in-one stereo systems from the 80s and 90s: they did the job but they typically won't outperform a good dedicated amplifier with a high end CD player. And if needed you can move on to a new player without losing that excellent amplifier.

It happens too often that a tool gets discontinued. And surprisingly it's the bigger companies who tend to cancel a product more often than the smaller companies. In the past 5 years some big names disappeared: Apple Aperture, PhaseOne Media Pro, Canto Cumulus, Extensys Portfolio, and a few more.

My advise is to go for a good RAW converter and combine it with a good DAM tool. Today, the most obvious choices are Photo Supreme (Windows and macOS), iMatch (Windows only), or Daminion (Windows only; also not sure if it still exists).

Personally I use Photo Supreme, combined with DXO. In the past I have switched RAW converters a few times already. I went from C1 to Lightroom to DXO now, and I have flirted with SilkyPix as well. In the future I might switch my RAW converter again.

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daMatrix Contributing Member • Posts: 866
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

As said, forget the one does all software. The extra cost gives  ease of mind about switching software. Years ago before even considering LR I went for Imatch as dam. Eventough I hardly use use it last years,  the costs of upgrade are reasonable and give me an insurance that my +100.000 photo library structure can be searched, exported to text (that is where LR dam falls into toyhood) or whatever needed in the future.

smithim Contributing Member • Posts: 981
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .
1

olstrup wrote:

ACDSee works well for me. For windows it comes in thre versions: Studio with just DAM, Pro with DAM and RAW converter and Ultimate with DAM, RAW converter and editor (including layers). Roundtrips to other applications easy. It allows you to work on files directly from the file systen without importing them in the ACDSee database. The Mac version is not as capable as Ultimate but I use Win so I have no personal experiences with it.

Yes, I use ACDSee as well, just for the DAM side. This integrates well with external raw converters/editors, so I only need the most basic version.

mjevans Contributing Member • Posts: 503
Re: digikam
3

I also use digiKam - very capable if you take the time to understand it. Certainly adding keywords and even geolocation is pretty easy. Searching is very competant.

 mjevans's gear list:mjevans's gear list
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Thomas Guenther Senior Member • Posts: 1,090
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .
1

jack scholl wrote:

Longtime LR ver 6.14 user with 100,000 file catalog, 1.3 GB of photo files (on an external SSD ) and use DxO PhotoLab for bad noise and UWA distortion (Viewpoint) files. The DAM capabilities of LR have been a wonderful feature that has been used extensively. But the Adobe subscription double cross makes it hard to trust anything they say about the future.

It seems like Apple has forced a decision on the future with the OS 64 bit incompatibility with 6.14.

So, have previously purchased Luminar 4, ON1Photo RAW 2019, used them in demo mode and have a trial ongoing with Exposure X5.

So far . . .

Luminar seems toy like . . . and ON1 seems much more capable, but both are woeful DAM's. And after much dialog with both techs, hope is not very encouraging. They seem to be focusing on other priorities for the future.

Exposure X5 has a very capable, if a bit clumsy, DAM that can replicate the keyword capabilities of LR. Which is a big deal. It is fast and shares many of ON1 strengths.

But it is a major commitment to devote enough time to get as familiar with X5 as I am with LR. And while I read all sorts of interesting "features" that show up with the LR updates by Adobe in the subscription world, Adobe will likely be there longer than X5.

So pick a future nightmare . . a DAM that is more likely to have a limited life span (X5) or one run by a company with very talented programmers and no soul.

OK, I have flushed my confused brain into the tread . . .

Any constructive comments or experience is welcome!

Thanks in advance,

Jack

I have had the same problem regarding MediaPro SE, because it is discontinued and does not run on 64bit OS now.

I checked out several other "independent" DAM, Photosupreme, NeoFinder as a workaround, using just ExifToo, but none of these did really fit my needs and provides the ability to work close in combination with CaptureOne.

Starting from ver. 11/12 COne has become better and does provide the same logic and interface as MPSE.

To make it run with catalogues beyond 10,000 pictures, there is need of some change within the preferences, especially when running it on older Mac systems.

I currently run my MBP form 2015 (16GB, 2GB nVidia GPU, 500GB SSD) as my main stationary system, running on Catalina BetaX.

My actual COne catalogue now holds ~ 60,000 raw files, (NEF, ARW, CD2, Leica DNG, ... ) plus all adjustments a have don on all pictures in COne. I usually do between 3 to 5 variants of each picture I process. This information is hold within the COne catalogue as well.

GPU and CPU power are the most critical issues while using COne as DAM, RAM is NOT an issue until the system holds ≥ 16GB.

My first attempt to read in all RAW files with my standard COne settings (previews 3840) failed because it grew up to 400GB. After having reduced the preview size to 1680, the size of the catalogue decreased to ~40GB.

This is a workable size on my system.

Next one needs time: The initial import did take nearly 18 hrs (net calculation value) - though it shall be a job done over night plus... . The largest consumption of time is producing the preview files.

The next important issue is just an emphasis on the recommendation by POne to position the catalogue file as nearest as possible to the system, that means: Don't store the catalogue on an external drive!
This keeps your external storage system (HD, NAS, ... ) on heavy work while working with files. Besides the spinning of the HDs and the permanent noise as a result of that spinning the systems slows down remarkable.

The next important point is on to speed up things once the complete catalogue is established.

The first load of the catalogue once COne is started will take some time, especially then when picture files are stored externally.

The first step shall. be to produce an intelligent folder showing up only the recent files and let the catalogue stay on the folder if you close COne so when it next is opened, not the complete catalogue is scanned and meta data are being loaded, but only the items from that intelligent folder!
That does not prevent to read out and load the complete structure, but only the portion in focus including its related preview files, instead of loading data and previews from the entire catalogue.

The goal shall always be to stay as long as possible on meta data and reduce the hard I/O data exchange to a feasible minimum. That means just to do any organisation using Groups, Projects and Albums, and not doing any stuff on the files physically.

Starting from that preliminaries, you can do the management of files, metadata, etc. as being thoroughly described within the COne webinars and tutorials published on COne's YouTube channel.

COne allows to import catalogue files from Aperture, LR, MediaPro, but I am not aware how import works regarding Aperture and LR catalogues. Running COne on Catalina refuses to import MediaPro catalogues.

One remark beside: COne, MPSE, Aperture, LR, all these DAMs do use internally SQLite db. One of the performance issues can be the missing ability to virtualize its threads. SQLite on my systems only uses the 4 kernels of the CPU in my system. Virtual kernels are absent, even if using SQLite as a standalone db.

The time spent to prepare COne to use as DAM is worth to taken! (it took me over a week to figure out on how to establish it)

Have time and fun!

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some lenses - some bodies

RobDMB Regular Member • Posts: 368
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

Aside from Lightroom CC and Mylio (and I guess Apple Photos) do any of the referenced  DAMs sync with mobile devices?

Jim B (MSP) Forum Pro • Posts: 10,095
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

Ysarex wrote:

jack scholl wrote:

Longtime LR ver 6.14 user with 100,000 file catalog, 1.3 GB of photo files (on an external SSD ) and use DxO PhotoLab for bad noise and UWA distortion (Viewpoint) files. The DAM capabilities of LR have been a wonderful feature that has been used extensively. But the Adobe subscription double cross makes it hard to trust anything they say about the future.

It seems like Apple has forced a decision on the future with the OS 64 bit incompatibility with 6.14.

So, have previously purchased Luminar 4, ON1Photo RAW 2019, used them in demo mode and have a trial ongoing with Exposure X5.

So far . . .

Luminar seems toy like . . . and ON1 seems much more capable, but both are woeful DAM's. And after much dialog with both techs, hope is not very encouraging. They seem to be focusing on other priorities for the future.

Exposure X5 has a very capable, if a bit clumsy, DAM that can replicate the keyword capabilities of LR. Which is a big deal. It is fast and shares many of ON1 strengths.

But it is a major commitment to devote enough time to get as familiar with X5 as I am with LR. And while I read all sorts of interesting "features" that show up with the LR updates by Adobe in the subscription world, Adobe will likely be there longer than X5.

So pick a future nightmare . . a DAM that is more likely to have a limited life span (X5) or one run by a company with very talented programmers and no soul.

OK, I have flushed my confused brain into the tread . . .

Any constructive comments or experience is welcome!

Thanks in advance,

Jack

You got married a very long time ago. Shopping around for a new spouse and a divorce will be the biggest nightmare of your life. Stay married and give your spouse what he/she wants. The alimony checks will kill you.

Wise advice, on a number of fronts.

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Jim
"It's all about the light"

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Canon EOS 80D
Graham Regular Member • Posts: 354
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

Seems you are on Mac, which is forcing the change on you. I would recommend having a look at IMatch, but this is Windows only.  Maybe time to change your OS as well 

Graham

JLGF1
JLGF1 Contributing Member • Posts: 830
Re: Damn DAM !! Any info is appreciated . . .

RobDMB wrote:

Aside from Lightroom CC and Mylio (and I guess Apple Photos) do any of the referenced DAMs sync with mobile devices?

Something like this?

ACDSee Mobile Sync

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Henry Richardson Forum Pro • Posts: 17,034
Re: digikam

mjevans wrote:

I also use digiKam - very capable if you take the time to understand it. Certainly adding keywords and even geolocation is pretty easy. Searching is very competant.

Yes, great advice.  If you take time to understand digikam, Lightroom, Photoshop, Excel, Sony cameras, Olympus cameras, Nikon cameras, Windows, Android smartphones, iphones, your wife/husband, etc. you will be able to make much better use of anything.

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Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

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