X-T100 Image shot at ISO 200 and features a lot of noise. + Sharpening & NR Questions.

Hello everyone, I have had the X-T100 camera for a few weeks now, and it is my first non-mobile digital camera. I really enjoy the process of taking pictures with it and editing them in Capture One afterward. I have been over-sharpening my images quite a bit, and I really hated the look of it. Then I decided to just use the default sharpening and NR values provided by Capture One. The results were quite better, but some parts were soft and lacked details.

Recently I ran into this article: https://blog.thomasfitzgeraldphotography.com/blog/2017/8/capture-one-tips-for-creating-a-better-default-image. The author describes that Capture One's default values are un-optimized in a few areas. The sharpening is harsh and so is the NR. From what I understand I don't need any NR on images shot at ISO 200, but I can see quite a bit of grain/noise in my images. I don't really mind this, I am just wondering how this can happen at the native/base ISO. I will be uploading the original RAW and the edited file. Keep in mind that the image is not great and that the grass is really blurry thanks to the high winds present that day. I should have bumped my shutter speed but I didn't have a tripod at hand. Image Settings: ISO 200, 1/180s, f/8, 15mm.

Capture One Sharpening and NR settings used:
Sharpening:
- Amount: 150
- Radius: 1
- Threshold: 0 (This should not be needed at ISO 200.)
- Halo reduction: 25

NR:
- Luminance: 25 (The default value of 50, feels like too much for ISO 200.)
- Detail: 50
- Color: 50
- Single Pixel: 0

Here are some of the questions I should like to see answered:

- Have I oversharpened my image?
- I few like there is a bit of a halo, not only in the edited file but also on the original RAW. (Take a closer look where the hill meets the sky.) Is this halo or is this normal?
- Should I use NR at low ISO?
- Any additional information about NR or Sharpening is appreciated, especially if they are feedback on the way I have edited my file.

Yes the "raw" does look oversharpened. I use the free Fuji/Silkypix raw developer, and it assigns JPG sharpening (and other) in-camera settings to the processing of the raw file when you first open it up. Capture 1 might do the same.

I did some careful tests of the X-T100, comparing it to another camera, and did not see the excess noise and sharpening haloes you have posted.

Here is one of my test shots, a 100% crop from a 50mp upsized version of the shot from each camera:

https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/1438043515/photos/3817952/50mp_compare?inalbum=fuji-vs-quattro

So, try setting your in-camera sharpening to a lower value (even a negative value) and see if your raws improve.

Good luck!  The X-T100 is a fantastic camera and the best Fuji value going.

Jamerrone wrote:

Hello everyone, I have had the X-T100 camera for a few weeks now, and it is my first non-mobile digital camera. I really enjoy the process of taking pictures with it and editing them in Capture One afterward. I have been over-sharpening my images quite a bit, and I really hated the look of it. Then I decided to just use the default sharpening and NR values provided by Capture One. The results were quite better, but some parts were soft and lacked details.

Recently I ran into this article: https://blog.thomasfitzgeraldphotography.com/blog/2017/8/capture-one-tips-for-creating-a-better-default-image. The author describes that Capture One's default values are un-optimized in a few areas. The sharpening is harsh and so is the NR. From what I understand I don't need any NR on images shot at ISO 200, but I can see quite a bit of grain/noise in my images. I don't really mind this, I am just wondering how this can happen at the native/base ISO. I will be uploading the original RAW and the edited file. Keep in mind that the image is not great and that the grass is really blurry thanks to the high winds present that day. I should have bumped my shutter speed but I didn't have a tripod at hand. Image Settings: ISO 200, 1/180s, f/8, 15mm.

Capture One Sharpening and NR settings used:
Sharpening:
- Amount: 150
- Radius: 1
- Threshold: 0 (This should not be needed at ISO 200.)
- Halo reduction: 25

NR:
- Luminance: 25 (The default value of 50, feels like too much for ISO 200.)
- Detail: 50
- Color: 50
- Single Pixel: 0

Here are some of the questions I should like to see answered:

- Have I oversharpened my image?
- I few like there is a bit of a halo, not only in the edited file but also on the original RAW. (Take a closer look where the hill meets the sky.) Is this halo or is this normal?
- Should I use NR at low ISO?
- Any additional information about NR or Sharpening is appreciated, especially if they are feedback on the way I have edited my file.

APS-C always has a bit of low level noise lurking in the shadows, not typically an issue, but you've gone and applied significant contrast and sharpening to this image which is always going to accentuate the noise. A tiny bit of NR and some masking when sharpening is usually advisable in situations like this where much of the scene is underexposed. If you can share the RAF I, and others, might be able to offer some more insight about this image in particular.

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Jamerrone wrote:

Hello everyone, I have had the X-T100 camera for a few weeks now, and it is my first non-mobile digital camera. I really enjoy the process of taking pictures with it and editing them in Capture One afterward. I have been over-sharpening my images quite a bit, and I really hated the look of it. Then I decided to just use the default sharpening and NR values provided by Capture One. The results were quite better, but some parts were soft and lacked details.

Recently I ran into this article: https://blog.thomasfitzgeraldphotography.com/blog/2017/8/capture-one-tips-for-creating-a-better-default-image. The author describes that Capture One's default values are un-optimized in a few areas. The sharpening is harsh and so is the NR. From what I understand I don't need any NR on images shot at ISO 200, but I can see quite a bit of grain/noise in my images. I don't really mind this, I am just wondering how this can happen at the native/base ISO. I will be uploading the original RAW and the edited file. Keep in mind that the image is not great and that the grass is really blurry thanks to the high winds present that day. I should have bumped my shutter speed but I didn't have a tripod at hand. Image Settings: ISO 200, 1/180s, f/8, 15mm.

Capture One Sharpening and NR settings used:
Sharpening:
- Amount: 150
- Radius: 1
- Threshold: 0 (This should not be needed at ISO 200.)
- Halo reduction: 25

NR:
- Luminance: 25 (The default value of 50, feels like too much for ISO 200.)
- Detail: 50
- Color: 50
- Single Pixel: 0

Here are some of the questions I should like to see answered:

- Have I oversharpened my image?
- I few like there is a bit of a halo, not only in the edited file but also on the original RAW. (Take a closer look where the hill meets the sky.) Is this halo or is this normal?
- Should I use NR at low ISO?
- Any additional information about NR or Sharpening is appreciated, especially if they are feedback on the way I have edited my file.

APS-C always has a bit of low level noise lurking in the shadows, not typically an issue, but you've gone and applied significant contrast and sharpening to this image which is always going to accentuate the noise. A tiny bit of NR and some masking when sharpening is usually advisable in situations like this where much of the scene is underexposed. If you can share the RAF I, and others, might be able to offer some more insight about this image in particular.

Thanks for your input, here is the RAW.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ArRpumigVQMAxp9QwkG3RXLM4ATTNZ1L/view?usp=sharing

Tom Schum wrote:

Yes the "raw" does look oversharpened. I use the free Fuji/Silkypix raw developer, and it assigns JPG sharpening (and other) in-camera settings to the processing of the raw file when you first open it up. Capture 1 might do the same.

I did some careful tests of the X-T100, comparing it to another camera, and did not see the excess noise and sharpening haloes you have posted.

Here is one of my test shots, a 100% crop from a 50mp upsized version of the shot from each camera:

https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/1438043515/photos/3817952/50mp_compare?inalbum=fuji-vs-quattro

So, try setting your in-camera sharpening to a lower value (even a negative value) and see if your raws improve.

Good luck! The X-T100 is a fantastic camera and the best Fuji value going.

I didn't know in-camera sharpening could affect the RAW. Interesting, I will need to do some more testing.

Jamerrone wrote:

Tom Schum wrote:

Yes the "raw" does look oversharpened. I use the free Fuji/Silkypix raw developer, and it assigns JPG sharpening (and other) in-camera settings to the processing of the raw file when you first open it up. Capture 1 might do the same.

I did some careful tests of the X-T100, comparing it to another camera, and did not see the excess noise and sharpening haloes you have posted.

Here is one of my test shots, a 100% crop from a 50mp upsized version of the shot from each camera:

https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/1438043515/photos/3817952/50mp_compare?inalbum=fuji-vs-quattro

So, try setting your in-camera sharpening to a lower value (even a negative value) and see if your raws improve.

Good luck! The X-T100 is a fantastic camera and the best Fuji value going.

I didn't know in-camera sharpening could affect the RAW. Interesting, I will need to do some more testing.

In-camera sharpening won't affect the RAW.

Jamerrone wrote:

Hello everyone, I have had the X-T100 camera for a few weeks now, and it is my first non-mobile digital camera. I really enjoy the process of taking pictures with it and editing them in Capture One afterward. I have been over-sharpening my images quite a bit, and I really hated the look of it. Then I decided to just use the default sharpening and NR values provided by Capture One. The results were quite better, but some parts were soft and lacked details.

Recently I ran into this article: https://blog.thomasfitzgeraldphotography.com/blog/2017/8/capture-one-tips-for-creating-a-better-default-image. The author describes that Capture One's default values are un-optimized in a few areas. The sharpening is harsh and so is the NR. From what I understand I don't need any NR on images shot at ISO 200, but I can see quite a bit of grain/noise in my images. I don't really mind this, I am just wondering how this can happen at the native/base ISO. I will be uploading the original RAW and the edited file. Keep in mind that the image is not great and that the grass is really blurry thanks to the high winds present that day. I should have bumped my shutter speed but I didn't have a tripod at hand. Image Settings: ISO 200, 1/180s, f/8, 15mm.

Capture One Sharpening and NR settings used:
Sharpening:
- Amount: 150
- Radius: 1
- Threshold: 0 (This should not be needed at ISO 200.)
- Halo reduction: 25

NR:
- Luminance: 25 (The default value of 50, feels like too much for ISO 200.)
- Detail: 50
- Color: 50
- Single Pixel: 0

Here are some of the questions I should like to see answered:

- Have I oversharpened my image?
- I few like there is a bit of a halo, not only in the edited file but also on the original RAW. (Take a closer look where the hill meets the sky.) Is this halo or is this normal?
- Should I use NR at low ISO?
- Any additional information about NR or Sharpening is appreciated, especially if they are feedback on the way I have edited my file.

Thomas Fitzgerald's advice is only meant as a starting point. I learned that the threshold value is very important with regards to sharpness and noise. Setting it to zero will introduce noise at ISO 200 but it's more like a fine grain in my opinion. I do not recommend using Capture One's default threshold value (1) as it kills fine details. My suggestion is 0,3 or 0,5. Reduce radius to 0,8 and keep the amount between 100-140 for most shots. Do not exaggerate clarity and structure, 5-10 should be enough. At ISO 200 I use a noise reduction value of 10-25.

.lars

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

In-camera sharpening won't affect the RAW.

I think it affects how my raw converter presents the raw image when I open it.  I can always turn this off once the image is open, or select other sharpening options.

But I am using the free Fuji/Silkypix raw developer and other raw processors might do it differently (and probably do).

I could very well be mistaken about this.

Jamerrone wrote:

Hello everyone, I have had the X-T100 camera for a few weeks now, and it is my first non-mobile digital camera. I really enjoy the process of taking pictures with it and editing them in Capture One afterward. I have been over-sharpening my images quite a bit, and I really hated the look of it. Then I decided to just use the default sharpening and NR values provided by Capture One. The results were quite better, but some parts were soft and lacked details.

Recently I ran into this article: https://blog.thomasfitzgeraldphotography.com/blog/2017/8/capture-one-tips-for-creating-a-better-default-image. The author describes that Capture One's default values are un-optimized in a few areas. The sharpening is harsh and so is the NR. From what I understand I don't need any NR on images shot at ISO 200, but I can see quite a bit of grain/noise in my images. I don't really mind this, I am just wondering how this can happen at the native/base ISO. I will be uploading the original RAW and the edited file. Keep in mind that the image is not great and that the grass is really blurry thanks to the high winds present that day. I should have bumped my shutter speed but I didn't have a tripod at hand. Image Settings: ISO 200, 1/180s, f/8, 15mm.

Capture One Sharpening and NR settings used:
Sharpening:
- Amount: 150
- Radius: 1
- Threshold: 0 (This should not be needed at ISO 200.)
- Halo reduction: 25

NR:
- Luminance: 25 (The default value of 50, feels like too much for ISO 200.)
- Detail: 50
- Color: 50
- Single Pixel: 0

Here are some of the questions I should like to see answered:

- Have I oversharpened my image?
- I few like there is a bit of a halo, not only in the edited file but also on the original RAW. (Take a closer look where the hill meets the sky.) Is this halo or is this normal?
- Should I use NR at low ISO?
- Any additional information about NR or Sharpening is appreciated, especially if they are feedback on the way I have edited my file.

I would get the black Friday deal to upgrade to capture one 20 pro. Historically software always improved over time.

Jamerrone wrote:

Erik Baumgartner wrote:

Jamerrone wrote:

Hello everyone, I have had the X-T100 camera for a few weeks now, and it is my first non-mobile digital camera. I really enjoy the process of taking pictures with it and editing them in Capture One afterward. I have been over-sharpening my images quite a bit, and I really hated the look of it. Then I decided to just use the default sharpening and NR values provided by Capture One. The results were quite better, but some parts were soft and lacked details.

Recently I ran into this article: https://blog.thomasfitzgeraldphotography.com/blog/2017/8/capture-one-tips-for-creating-a-better-default-image. The author describes that Capture One's default values are un-optimized in a few areas. The sharpening is harsh and so is the NR. From what I understand I don't need any NR on images shot at ISO 200, but I can see quite a bit of grain/noise in my images. I don't really mind this, I am just wondering how this can happen at the native/base ISO. I will be uploading the original RAW and the edited file. Keep in mind that the image is not great and that the grass is really blurry thanks to the high winds present that day. I should have bumped my shutter speed but I didn't have a tripod at hand. Image Settings: ISO 200, 1/180s, f/8, 15mm.

Capture One Sharpening and NR settings used:
Sharpening:
- Amount: 150
- Radius: 1
- Threshold: 0 (This should not be needed at ISO 200.)
- Halo reduction: 25

NR:
- Luminance: 25 (The default value of 50, feels like too much for ISO 200.)
- Detail: 50
- Color: 50
- Single Pixel: 0

Here are some of the questions I should like to see answered:

- Have I oversharpened my image?
- I few like there is a bit of a halo, not only in the edited file but also on the original RAW. (Take a closer look where the hill meets the sky.) Is this halo or is this normal?
- Should I use NR at low ISO?
- Any additional information about NR or Sharpening is appreciated, especially if they are feedback on the way I have edited my file.

APS-C always has a bit of low level noise lurking in the shadows, not typically an issue, but you've gone and applied significant contrast and sharpening to this image which is always going to accentuate the noise. A tiny bit of NR and some masking when sharpening is usually advisable in situations like this where much of the scene is underexposed. If you can share the RAF I, and others, might be able to offer some more insight about this image in particular.

Thanks for your input, here is the RAW.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ArRpumigVQMAxp9QwkG3RXLM4ATTNZ1L/view?usp=sharing

Well, here's my version. Everyone's idea of how things ought to look is different, but yeah, I think you overdid the saturation, contrast and sharpening. I think Ioverdid the saturation, contrast and sharpening. It's a good idea to get up and walk away after you think you've got everything right ...and then come back a few minutes and dial everything back a bit to where it really ought to be. When you shoot something in less than optimal conditions, I'm all for nudging an image in the direction of what the scenecould look like in in better light, but trying to make it into something it isn't rarely ends well - you can only push things so far before it starts to look unnatural. IMO, you'll usually be better off making a flat scene look like a better flat scene rather than a dynamic saturated scene.

I'm a Lightroom guy so I can't help you with C1 specific settings, but these kinds of scenes (flat light, but with a fair amount of global contrast and very little local contrast) are the worst for noise with any program. With the amount of tonal value adjustment necessary to create a little visual appeal, you're going to have to be mindful of the noise you'll be accentuating if you aren't careful. A few simple things to keep in mind:

Only sharpen the useful detail, not the noise. Use the masking/detail/threshold adjustments to apply the sharpening only where you want it (you probably don't need to sharpen the sky).

Only remove the noise, not the detail. Carefully adjust you NR to only remove noise from featureless areas and not from the useful detail. Again, Masking/Threshold etc. And take it easy on any contrast inducing adjustments, especially clarity, dehaze, structure, texture etc., they can make a mess of things in no time. Watch the saturation too.

The key to good clean results, especially at very high ISOs, is to strike the right balance between sharpening and NR - they affect each other, so you might have to go back and forth between adjustments a bit to dial in the right settings. If you get it right, you will need very little of either. Don't make the mistake of adding a ton of sharpening and then adding a ton of NR to clean up the mess. A bit of finesse is required for optimal results.

Note: this image is quite soft, especially around the periphery, I'm not very familiar with the 15-45, but from what I've read and seen on line, it should probably be better than this at f/8.

LR

guitarjeff wrote:

Yep, this is how I saw it in my mind.

Did you use the Affinity sky replacement  feature here? Not really my thing but I've got to admit, that's pretty cool.

I should like to thank everyone for there time, here is my updated image with a bit less contrast/saturation and a lot less noise. (Especially in the sky.)

guitarjeff wrote:

Jamerrone wrote:

I should like to thank everyone for there time, here is my updated image with a bit less contrast/saturation and a lot less noise. (Especially in the sky.)

That looks darn good to me. Im wishing I had one of those 15-45 XC lenses. I'll hopefully be able to grab one someday.

I enjoyed that lens in the two trips I took it with me, it's a great little piece of glass with practically no weight. I have, however, replaced it with the new 16-80mm.

guitarjeff wrote:

Jamerrone wrote:

guitarjeff wrote:

Jamerrone wrote:

I should like to thank everyone for there time, here is my updated image with a bit less contrast/saturation and a lot less noise. (Especially in the sky.)

That looks darn good to me. Im wishing I had one of those 15-45 XC lenses. I'll hopefully be able to grab one someday.

I enjoyed that lens in the two trips I took it with me, it's a great little piece of glass with practically no weight. I have, however, replaced it with the new 16-80mm.

Wow, yeah, I bet that's nice. I could never afford that 16-80, on a fixed income here, but I might someday find a way to get a 15-45.

You will take many a great photo with that 16-80 i bet.

I sure hope so, I have not used it yet. I just started as a hobbyist photographer and frankly, I find it very expensive. The reason I got the 16-80mm was that I needed a little bit extra reach and I cannot afford to have multiple lenses.