Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Started Nov 25, 2019 | Discussions
tifa3 Regular Member • Posts: 165
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Have you tried using mechanical shutter to see if it fixes it?

Marco Nero
Marco Nero Veteran Member • Posts: 7,017
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Kquinlan wrote:

Any updates to this? I am seeing this pattern in the highlights on my 50mm 1.2RF on my EOSR.

-Kevin

That's the RF 50mm f/1.2L USM lens, right?  Not the older EF 50mm f/1.2L USM lens?  The newer model should work flawlessly on the EOS R cameras.  The older version ought to work as well.  I used it on the EOS Ra and it was just fine (the EF version).  There was no mesh patterns in any of the shots or the highlights.

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Marco Nero.

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Kquinlan New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?
1

Yes it is the new Canon 50mm RF 1.2 on an EOSR. Horizontal lines on out of focus areas in transitions from dark to light at wide apertures.  This is with mechanical shutter.

Kquinlan New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Kameratrollet Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Kquinlan wrote:

Any updates to this? I am seeing this pattern in the highlights on my 50mm 1.2RF on my EOSR.

-Kevin

Is it visible when you choose VNG4 as demosaicing method?

David Franklin Senior Member • Posts: 1,436
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?
1

I think it is clear, just by deductive reasoning that there are four factors that could be involved here: 1) Demosaicing of software, 2) type of shutter, 3) shutter speed, and more general electrical interference.

I think I noticed that on all of the shots used as examples of this phenomena, I noticed that the shutter speeds were very high - 1/10,000, 1/5,000 and the slowest was 1/800. I wonder if, at slower speeds, this may not occur, which would indicate some sort of timing issue or even electronic interference having to do with the shutter, especially with the electronic shutter, but even with the mechanical one as well. Likewise, and possibly related, a sort of generally sourced electrical interference, caused by so much current running through so many working circuits and boards and such packed into such a small and confined space may have limited the ability of Canon to shield some components from electrical interference that may only show up as in the examples shown here.

If it's just a problem of demosaicing in software, Canon needs to work on DPP and work with Adobe and others, and maybe work on CR3 itself, in order to correct this, although since these examples seems to be shown at file magnifications greater than 100%, this issue isn't exactly paramount and may even be somehow related to display issues, as opposed to problems intrinsic with the files themselves, although I find that the least likely possibility. The other possible causes may be harder to correct, as they may be related to the physical design of the camera.

For the record, I have an EOS R that I've heavily used for quite some time, and have never seen anything like the results on this thread, although, if it makes any difference, I now have no lenses that are faster than f/2.0. Again, this is not directly related in any way, but is similar: just yesterday I shot a couple of thousand shots of people sitting in front of huge LCD panels (don't know if backlight is from fluorescent or LED) being simulcast on video and had to use the electronic shutter for "silence." Wow, on those panels, what banding! Tried every shutter speed from 1/120 down to 1/15 to try to tame the panel banding. Had to give up at 1/20 as the lowest possible shutter speed at which I could hope to capture people without every frame being a blur, and even then, the horizontal banding was bad. Interesting enough, the pro LED lighting on the people themselves was fine, with no banding or other artifact, even at 1/120 of a second. That was amazing.

By the way, I saw issues just like this way back in the early 2000's with some $30,000.00 digital backs, when viewing files at greater than 100%.

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Marco Nero
Marco Nero Veteran Member • Posts: 7,017
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Kquinlan wrote:

Yes it is the new Canon 50mm RF 1.2 on an EOSR. Horizontal lines on out of focus areas in transitions from dark to light at wide apertures. This is with mechanical shutter.

I'm not seeing it with any of the lenses I've used on both the EOS RP, EOS Ra and the EOS R6. I saw this thread only yesterday and went through my original images and couldn't find any examples - and I enjoy shooting wide open with the EF 50mmL and RF 85mmL lenses.  I use Mechanical Shutter and I use both low and high speeds.
.
Has there been any progress with the original observations? I would find this to be unacceptable but nobody else appears to be reporting these issues. Though it was good to see that Canon took the original complaint seriously enough to request access to the lens and camera that produced this issue.

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tifa3 Regular Member • Posts: 165
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Has anyone had this issue with the R5 and R6? i’m thinking that this is because of the R body and maybe something with the sensor causing this mesh pattern. Don’t think this is related to the lens as it’s just glass elements and electronics inside

zappa1976 Regular Member • Posts: 499
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Using Capture One there aren’t patterns or issues.

Thd artifacts are visible using a fast lens, from 1.2 to 1.8, and with DPP - Lightroom as raw converter.

With DXO lab the the artifacts are visible but you can corrects them with “de-haze” (not remember the right name) slide.

I think that Capture One is the best raw converter for Eos R raws.

1Dx4me Forum Pro • Posts: 10,243
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Canochrome wrote:

Hadrian R wrote:

Thank you. We'll see what happens. Right now I am leaning towards just exchanging it for peace of mind.

I would exchange it, with a good description of the issue. If you bought it from one of the big camera stores, you can set up the exchange on line.

The only time I've seen an odd pattern similar to that is when photographing my computer screen with my phone, where the timing of the shutter clashes with the scan of the LCD screen that I'm photographing.

what if this is a software issue, such as DPP? all it takes a correction in DPP and there won't be this problem. i'd speak to canon people, 1st.

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zappa1976 Regular Member • Posts: 499
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Kquinlan wrote:

Yes it is the new Canon 50mm RF 1.2 on an EOSR. Horizontal lines on out of focus areas in transitions from dark to light at wide apertures. This is with mechanical shutter.

If you try Capture One as raw converter, You will not see any artifacts.

ChelseaPhotographer
ChelseaPhotographer Contributing Member • Posts: 619
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

zappa1976 wrote:

Kquinlan wrote:

Yes it is the new Canon 50mm RF 1.2 on an EOSR. Horizontal lines on out of focus areas in transitions from dark to light at wide apertures. This is with mechanical shutter.

If you try Capture One as raw converter, You will not see any artifacts.

I can also confirm that with Capture One, the conversion does not show these artifacts...

Capture One

The DPReview sample file with garish colors (and maze pattern)

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Kquinlan New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

I don't see it in the dpreview image. I have been using the EOS R for a little less than 2 years, and this is the first time I have seen any pattern like that (also first time using the 50 1.2rf I just bought). I use Adobe Camera Raw, and am not interested in solutions that involve applying some sort of blurring to every image, or switching to a different program and changing my entire workflow to accommodate this issue. It may not be a big deal on a single image, but editing 900+ images from a photo shoot in a different program is not ideal. I have also not seen this in any of the 8+ Canon DSLR's I've used in the past. The pattern doesn't make the images unusable at all either, it does make the very smooth bokeh characteristics of this $2300 lens less optimal and desirable in the images that it affects.

It only seems to occur in dark areas right by bright highlights, at wide apertures and fast shutter speeds.  I suspect it may be some kind of interference from the dual pixel auto focus, but not sure. Also not sure why I have never seen it before on the Tamron 85 1.8VC I have had for a long time, but saw it on my first week using the 50mm 1.2RF

_Kevin

juanmaasecas
juanmaasecas Senior Member • Posts: 1,216
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

It is happening to me also with the Eos R and the EF 50 1.2L.

Regular (lossless compressed) raw, in Lightroom. At normal shutter speeds, in the bokeh balls.

It is not noticeable of you don't pixel peep, but yes, I thought it could be an artefact of the C-RAW, but I am using the supposedly lossless...

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ChelseaPhotographer
ChelseaPhotographer Contributing Member • Posts: 619
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

juanmaasecas wrote:

It is happening to me also with the Eos R and the EF 50 1.2L.

Regular (lossless compressed) raw, in Lightroom. At normal shutter speeds, in the bokeh balls.

It is not noticeable of you don't pixel peep, but yes, I thought it could be an artefact of the C-RAW, but I am using the supposedly lossless...

Try a different raw converter, Capture One for example. This is not the camera, nor the file format, but Lightroom doing a bad job at converting the file...

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Kameratrollet Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

ChelseaPhotographer wrote:

juanmaasecas wrote:

It is happening to me also with the Eos R and the EF 50 1.2L.

Regular (lossless compressed) raw, in Lightroom. At normal shutter speeds, in the bokeh balls.

It is not noticeable of you don't pixel peep, but yes, I thought it could be an artefact of the C-RAW, but I am using the supposedly lossless...

Try a different raw converter, Capture One for example. This is not the camera, nor the file format, but Lightroom doing a bad job at converting the file...

You don't think it is CFA crosstalk?

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