Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Started Nov 25, 2019 | Discussions
OP Hadrian R Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: Try DPP
2

I contacted Canon yesterday and sent them files from three different R cameras. They said they will investigate...so we'll see where it goes.

I also contacted a friend who has the R and the Sigma 85 f/1.4 Art. I can also now confirm that combination also shows the lines.

 Hadrian R's gear list:Hadrian R's gear list
Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 11-24mm F4L Canon EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM +2 more
GammyKnee Contributing Member • Posts: 929
Re: Try DPP

Bravo.

Given that certain raw converters are able to deal with the issue I think there's a good chance Canon will be able to provide a fix / mitigation in firmware - assuming they deal with your report responsibly.

 GammyKnee's gear list:GammyKnee's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon EOS R6 Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM Canon EF 70-200mm F4L IS USM Canon EF 35mm F2 IS USM +4 more
zappa1976 Regular Member • Posts: 499
Re: Try DPP
1

Hadrian R wrote:

I contacted Canon yesterday and sent them files from three different R cameras. They said they will investigate...so we'll see where it goes.

I also contacted a friend who has the R and the Sigma 85 f/1.4 Art. I can also now confirm that combination also shows the lines.

Hi!

I can confirm that also in my Eos R and EF 50 1.2, using AV from 1.2 to 1.8 i see maze artifacts on my photos.

Currently the solution is using Caputure One the has a domosaicing methos that correct this problem.

Also luminar, darkable vith VNP4 method are perfect.

DXO LAB is at 99% ok if i set "maze">=45 in noise reduction section.

Problem are visible with Lighttoom, DPP (incredible and inaccettable that the Canon raw converter shows artifact!!).

I open a ticket with the technicaian of DXO uploading some CR3 samples.

I have also contacted the canon.it support.

I will updated as soon as I will receive the reports.

I ask also at very experts (es. I.Borg)...the low contrast due the large aperture, the dual pixel design and the speed very high (T>1/2000) can be possibile casue of these artifacts.

Saverio

(sorry for my english, I am italian)

P.S.: i hope that Canon with DPP and all other raw converter fix the problem, i like very much the eos R, i think currently is the best camera!!

Kameratrollet Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Here maze pattern from 5D IV https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/9485291827/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-sample-gallery/8581137324

Seems I should check my M5 and 6D.

Kameratrollet Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Kameratrollet wrote:

Here maze pattern from 5D IV https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/9485291827/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-sample-gallery/8581137324

Seems I should check my M5 and 6D.

5D IV, not visible with Lightroom or DPP4. Visible with RawTherapee and AMaZE.

OP Hadrian R Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Kameratrollet wrote:

Kameratrollet wrote:

Here maze pattern from 5D IV https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/9485291827/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-sample-gallery/8581137324

Seems I should check my M5 and 6D.

5D IV, not visible with Lightroom or DPP4. Visible with RawTherapee and AMaZE.

Still no word from Canon. Will call them on Monday to inquire if they’ve determined anything.

 Hadrian R's gear list:Hadrian R's gear list
Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 11-24mm F4L Canon EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM +2 more
Kameratrollet Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Hadrian R wrote:

Kameratrollet wrote:

Kameratrollet wrote:

Here maze pattern from 5D IV https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/9485291827/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-sample-gallery/8581137324

Seems I should check my M5 and 6D.

5D IV, not visible with Lightroom or DPP4. Visible with RawTherapee and AMaZE.

Still no word from Canon. Will call them on Monday to inquire if they’ve determined anything.

Perhaps better to ask Adobe to add VNG4 or green equilibration? I have asked in Canon U.S.A. forum about updating DPP4.

OP Hadrian R Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?
1

Heard back from Canon this morning via email. They said they want me to send the lens in for examination.

I phoned them and spoke with another representative. I informed them I will not be sending the lens in for examination. This problem persists regardless of which copies of the 85 f/1.2 or R are in use.

Anyways, to cut a long story short, they said they would follow up with me if they needed further information. I don't think it sounds too promising for a fix at the moment.

 Hadrian R's gear list:Hadrian R's gear list
Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 11-24mm F4L Canon EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM +2 more
frisbfreek Regular Member • Posts: 123
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

I'm at work without my personal computer so I can't test this theory, but could this be default sharpening applied by RAW renderers? I believe Lightroom adds a default sharpening of 40 to RAW files with a 1 pixel radius to compensate for AA filter effects. Could it be this? Does adding a sharpen mask help?

 frisbfreek's gear list:frisbfreek's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro Canon EF 16-35mm F4L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F4L IS USM +1 more
coso dp
coso dp Regular Member • Posts: 277
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

frisbfreek wrote:

I'm at work without my personal computer so I can't test this theory, but could this be default sharpening applied by RAW renderers? I believe Lightroom adds a default sharpening of 40 to RAW files with a 1 pixel radius to compensate for AA filter effects. Could it be this? Does adding a sharpen mask help?

I tried his files on my DPP and the problem was there

frisbfreek Regular Member • Posts: 123
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

coso dp wrote:

frisbfreek wrote:

I'm at work without my personal computer so I can't test this theory, but could this be default sharpening applied by RAW renderers? I believe Lightroom adds a default sharpening of 40 to RAW files with a 1 pixel radius to compensate for AA filter effects. Could it be this? Does adding a sharpen mask help?

I tried his files on my DPP and the problem was there

Right... I believe DPP applies some default sharpening as well?

 frisbfreek's gear list:frisbfreek's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro Canon EF 16-35mm F4L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F4L IS USM +1 more
Kameratrollet Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

frisbfreek wrote:

I'm at work without my personal computer so I can't test this theory, but could this be default sharpening applied by RAW renderers? I believe Lightroom adds a default sharpening of 40 to RAW files with a 1 pixel radius to compensate for AA filter effects. Could it be this? Does adding a sharpen mask help?

Tried DPP4 and Lightroom. Turned off sharpening. Still there but less visible.

frisbfreek Regular Member • Posts: 123
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Kameratrollet wrote:

frisbfreek wrote:

I'm at work without my personal computer so I can't test this theory, but could this be default sharpening applied by RAW renderers? I believe Lightroom adds a default sharpening of 40 to RAW files with a 1 pixel radius to compensate for AA filter effects. Could it be this? Does adding a sharpen mask help?

Tried DPP4 and Lightroom. Turned off sharpening. Still there but less visible.

Got it, thanks. My other theory is that it has something to do with sensor architecture and pixel design. Are the sensor pixels somehow divided differently (every 2 pixels?), and the angle of incidence of light at f1.2 makes this noticeable? Is the effect worse near the edges vs in the center?

 frisbfreek's gear list:frisbfreek's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM Canon RF 35mm F1.8 IS STM Macro Canon EF 16-35mm F4L IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F4L IS USM +1 more
RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 30,129
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Hadrian R wrote:

Heard back from Canon this morning via email. They said they want me to send the lens in for examination.

I phoned them and spoke with another representative. I informed them I will not be sending the lens in for examination. This problem persists regardless of which copies of the 85 f/1.2 or R are in use.

Have you used it with a lens besides a 85 mm one?

Anyways, to cut a long story short, they said they would follow up with me if they needed further information. I don't think it sounds too promising for a fix at the moment.

Kameratrollet Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?
1

frisbfreek wrote:

Kameratrollet wrote:

frisbfreek wrote:

I'm at work without my personal computer so I can't test this theory, but could this be default sharpening applied by RAW renderers? I believe Lightroom adds a default sharpening of 40 to RAW files with a 1 pixel radius to compensate for AA filter effects. Could it be this? Does adding a sharpen mask help?

Tried DPP4 and Lightroom. Turned off sharpening. Still there but less visible.

Got it, thanks. My other theory is that it has something to do with sensor architecture and pixel design. Are the sensor pixels somehow divided differently (every 2 pixels?), and the angle of incidence of light at f1.2 makes this noticeable? Is the effect worse near the edges vs in the center?

Not what I have seen.

Hadrian R, EOS R can take two raw files at the same time, Dual Pixel Raw. Then it is possible to extract the second raw file with DPR Split. Please take some samples.

kkumpu New Member • Posts: 1
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Did you get any reply from Canon after phonemail?
I can confirm that this issue is real also with RF 50mm f/1.2 when shooting 1.2 - 1.8 range.

 kkumpu's gear list:kkumpu's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon RF 24-70mm F2.8L IS USM Canon RF 24-105mm F4L IS USM Canon RF 50mm F1.2L USM Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM
rjp85 Regular Member • Posts: 212
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

I've seen this happen with two other cameras when viewing the RAW file in Capture One Pro:

1) Canon 5DsR

2) Nikon D800E

In the following galleries (download the RAW files and see for yourself):

Canon file: https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/3367774683/canon-ef-35mm-f-1-4l-ii-usm-real-world-samples-gallery/8884834670

Nikon file (via Imaging-Resource): https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d800e/Y-JG-D800E-SIGMA-105MM-1060.NEF.HTM

The artifacts in the Canon file are above the bright highlight.

The artifacts in the Nikon file are in the background blur along the bright edges of the snow.  It's very subtle, but it's there.  I've seen it in another file, but can't remember which.

rjp85 Regular Member • Posts: 212
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Hadrian R wrote:

onlyfreeman wrote:

Hadrian R wrote:

It turns out that DPReview's own samples from the lens show the problem in the highlights too.

Check this out from image 315A0001.CR3 in DPReview's

lens sample gallery:

Can you link the image in the DPR gallery? It's not showing for me.

This should be it:

https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/7457721205/canon-rf-85mm-f1-2l-usm-sample-gallery/4467562505

In Capture One Pro with this file, I DO NOT see these horizontal lines.  Looks perfect to  me.

Kameratrollet Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

rjp85 wrote:

I've seen this happen with two other cameras when viewing the RAW file in Capture One Pro:

1) Canon 5DsR

2) Nikon D800E

In the following galleries (download the RAW files and see for yourself):

Canon file: https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/3367774683/canon-ef-35mm-f-1-4l-ii-usm-real-world-samples-gallery/8884834670

Nikon file (via Imaging-Resource): https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d800e/Y-JG-D800E-SIGMA-105MM-1060.NEF.HTM

The artifacts in the Canon file are above the bright highlight.

The artifacts in the Nikon file are in the background blur along the bright edges of the snow. It's very subtle, but it's there. I've seen it in another file, but can't remember which.

Not visible with VNG4 as demosaicing method.

Kquinlan New Member • Posts: 10
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Any updates to this?  I am seeing this pattern in the highlights on my 50mm 1.2RF on my EOSR.

-Kevin

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