Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Started Nov 25, 2019 | Discussions
OP Hadrian R Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: Low quality photos instead of high quality
1

ZX11 wrote:

Hadrian R wrote:

Are you speaking about the cropped screen grabs I posted initially in the thread? I was simply posting those for illustrative purposes -- to showcase the problem.

You can click on my Dropbox link above if you want a full RAW image out of my camera where the problem is really prevalent.

I am not seeing any problems with the image you've posted. Looks like a beautiful dog, tho!

Yeah, I realized too late to withdraw the post that the images were heavily cropped. I thought the dog head was a full shot of just him. I edited the post to (nt).

No worries.

 Hadrian R's gear list:Hadrian R's gear list
Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Canon EF 85mm F1.2L II USM Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 2x III +2 more
TN Args
TN Args Veteran Member • Posts: 9,808
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?
1

Hadrian R wrote:

Here's a sample RAW that I have available right now.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lgd0ilhkbfj8dz3/AAAD_pA_Bo_diMb49p9v8Jioa?dl=0

You can see the horizontal lines if you zoom into the snow by my dog's feet, and you can see the lines in the bokeh balls in the background of the image.

I can confirm that, after opening this file in DPP4, the lines are definitely there, and definitely not right.

unsharpened in DPP4, viewed at 300%

It is largely exacerbated by applying USM:-

USM strength = 6 in DPP4

I notice you are shooting in C-RAW, which is lossy compression.

Try again with camera set to RAW (not C-RAW) and see if the effect still happens. If it disappears, then it is lossy compression artefacts.

cheers

 TN Args's gear list:TN Args's gear list
Sigma dp0 Quattro Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M5 II Sony a7R III Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 +8 more
coso dp
coso dp Regular Member • Posts: 277
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Oh yeah, just get it exchanged.

The mail to Canon was just out of curiosity XD I wouldn't have sent it in for repairs if new

S_Michaelsen Junior Member • Posts: 29
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Hadrian R wrote:

I posted this on Canon Rumors, but I'm hoping that the larger user base here might help me shed some light on an issue I am experiencing with my new R camera.

I noticed that I am getting these strange lines across the highlight areas of my images. It's always in the bright highlight areas, and usually where the highlights transition to a midtone.

They appear in unedited RAW images. I've not tried JPEG.

Has anyone else experienced this with their R cameras? I'm wondering if it's a sensor issue, or if it's a normal phenomenon caused by the electronic shutter.

These crops are from images shot at f/1.2 using the EF 85mm f/1.2L II and the new RF 85mm f/1.2L, and at shutter speeds ranging from 1/6400 to 1/8000. However, I have also noticed this same phenomenon to a much lesser degree at speeds ranging from 1/250 to 1/320.

I have Silent LV Shoot Mode 1 enabled, as this is on by default.

I've not found any photos so far where the issue presents itself while using a f/2.8 lens or slower.

My camera was also set to evaluative metering, servo focus, and on a single AF point. Additionally, the camera's firmware is the latest.

I still have a week to return the camera to the store for a replacement, so I want to make sure everything is operating as it should.

Thanks in advance for everyone's time and help.

To me this looks like a raw file rendering problem. I opened it in both C1 (12) and PS camera raw (11.4.1), and in the latter the artifacts showed up. In C1 it was totally gone.

I also turned highlight recovery down max in both software. - Note also how much more you can recover in C1. (right image)

coso dp
coso dp Regular Member • Posts: 277
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

S_Michaelsen wrote:

Hadrian R wrote:

I posted this on Canon Rumors, but I'm hoping that the larger user base here might help me shed some light on an issue I am experiencing with my new R camera.

I noticed that I am getting these strange lines across the highlight areas of my images. It's always in the bright highlight areas, and usually where the highlights transition to a midtone.

They appear in unedited RAW images. I've not tried JPEG.

Has anyone else experienced this with their R cameras? I'm wondering if it's a sensor issue, or if it's a normal phenomenon caused by the electronic shutter.

These crops are from images shot at f/1.2 using the EF 85mm f/1.2L II and the new RF 85mm f/1.2L, and at shutter speeds ranging from 1/6400 to 1/8000. However, I have also noticed this same phenomenon to a much lesser degree at speeds ranging from 1/250 to 1/320.

I have Silent LV Shoot Mode 1 enabled, as this is on by default.

I've not found any photos so far where the issue presents itself while using a f/2.8 lens or slower.

My camera was also set to evaluative metering, servo focus, and on a single AF point. Additionally, the camera's firmware is the latest.

I still have a week to return the camera to the store for a replacement, so I want to make sure everything is operating as it should.

Thanks in advance for everyone's time and help.

To me this looks like a raw file rendering problem. I opened it in both C1 (12) and PS camera raw (11.4.1), and in the latter the artifacts showed up. In C1 it was totally gone.

I also turned highlight recovery down max in both software. - Note also how much more you can recover in C1. (right image)

I opened his RAW with Canon Digital Professional, the one that should work flawlessly, and the defect was there. My RP files aren't like that. I say hardware problem.

shawnphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,172
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

S_Michaelsen wrote:

Hadrian R wrote:

I posted this on Canon Rumors, but I'm hoping that the larger user base here might help me shed some light on an issue I am experiencing with my new R camera.

I noticed that I am getting these strange lines across the highlight areas of my images. It's always in the bright highlight areas, and usually where the highlights transition to a midtone.

They appear in unedited RAW images. I've not tried JPEG.

Has anyone else experienced this with their R cameras? I'm wondering if it's a sensor issue, or if it's a normal phenomenon caused by the electronic shutter.

These crops are from images shot at f/1.2 using the EF 85mm f/1.2L II and the new RF 85mm f/1.2L, and at shutter speeds ranging from 1/6400 to 1/8000. However, I have also noticed this same phenomenon to a much lesser degree at speeds ranging from 1/250 to 1/320.

I have Silent LV Shoot Mode 1 enabled, as this is on by default.

I've not found any photos so far where the issue presents itself while using a f/2.8 lens or slower.

My camera was also set to evaluative metering, servo focus, and on a single AF point. Additionally, the camera's firmware is the latest.

I still have a week to return the camera to the store for a replacement, so I want to make sure everything is operating as it should.

Thanks in advance for everyone's time and help.

To me this looks like a raw file rendering problem. I opened it in both C1 (12) and PS camera raw (11.4.1), and in the latter the artifacts showed up. In C1 it was totally gone.

I also turned highlight recovery down max in both software. - Note also how much more you can recover in C1. (right image)

The highlight data is there in photoshop...lol.

highlights are visible in Photoshop because C1 is not better at anything other than being even more overpriced.

 shawnphoto's gear list:shawnphoto's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon EOS RP Canon EOS R5 Canon EF 24-105mm F4L IS II USM Canon RF 28-70mm F2L USM +4 more
S_Michaelsen Junior Member • Posts: 29
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?
1

shawnphoto wrote:

S_Michaelsen wrote:

Hadrian R wrote:

I posted this on Canon Rumors, but I'm hoping that the larger user base here might help me shed some light on an issue I am experiencing with my new R camera.

I noticed that I am getting these strange lines across the highlight areas of my images. It's always in the bright highlight areas, and usually where the highlights transition to a midtone.

They appear in unedited RAW images. I've not tried JPEG.

Has anyone else experienced this with their R cameras? I'm wondering if it's a sensor issue, or if it's a normal phenomenon caused by the electronic shutter.

These crops are from images shot at f/1.2 using the EF 85mm f/1.2L II and the new RF 85mm f/1.2L, and at shutter speeds ranging from 1/6400 to 1/8000. However, I have also noticed this same phenomenon to a much lesser degree at speeds ranging from 1/250 to 1/320.

I have Silent LV Shoot Mode 1 enabled, as this is on by default.

I've not found any photos so far where the issue presents itself while using a f/2.8 lens or slower.

My camera was also set to evaluative metering, servo focus, and on a single AF point. Additionally, the camera's firmware is the latest.

I still have a week to return the camera to the store for a replacement, so I want to make sure everything is operating as it should.

Thanks in advance for everyone's time and help.

To me this looks like a raw file rendering problem. I opened it in both C1 (12) and PS camera raw (11.4.1), and in the latter the artifacts showed up. In C1 it was totally gone.

I also turned highlight recovery down max in both software. - Note also how much more you can recover in C1. (right image)

The highlight data is there in photoshop...lol.

highlights are visible in Photoshop because C1 is not better at anything other than being even more overpriced.

Sure lol, but look at your dark background compared to C1. Would take more pp to to fix. C1 is better in not forcing you to subscribe.

shawnphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,172
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

S_Michaelsen wrote:

shawnphoto wrote:

S_Michaelsen wrote:

Hadrian R wrote:

I posted this on Canon Rumors, but I'm hoping that the larger user base here might help me shed some light on an issue I am experiencing with my new R camera.

I noticed that I am getting these strange lines across the highlight areas of my images. It's always in the bright highlight areas, and usually where the highlights transition to a midtone.

They appear in unedited RAW images. I've not tried JPEG.

Has anyone else experienced this with their R cameras? I'm wondering if it's a sensor issue, or if it's a normal phenomenon caused by the electronic shutter.

These crops are from images shot at f/1.2 using the EF 85mm f/1.2L II and the new RF 85mm f/1.2L, and at shutter speeds ranging from 1/6400 to 1/8000. However, I have also noticed this same phenomenon to a much lesser degree at speeds ranging from 1/250 to 1/320.

I have Silent LV Shoot Mode 1 enabled, as this is on by default.

I've not found any photos so far where the issue presents itself while using a f/2.8 lens or slower.

My camera was also set to evaluative metering, servo focus, and on a single AF point. Additionally, the camera's firmware is the latest.

I still have a week to return the camera to the store for a replacement, so I want to make sure everything is operating as it should.

Thanks in advance for everyone's time and help.

To me this looks like a raw file rendering problem. I opened it in both C1 (12) and PS camera raw (11.4.1), and in the latter the artifacts showed up. In C1 it was totally gone.

I also turned highlight recovery down max in both software. - Note also how much more you can recover in C1. (right image)

The highlight data is there in photoshop...lol.

highlights are visible in Photoshop because C1 is not better at anything other than being even more overpriced.

Sure lol, but look at your dark background compared to C1. Would take more pp to to fix. C1 is better in not forcing you to subscribe.

I agree that the patterning is a problem, but I'm not sure its Adobe's problem. Could be a Canon issue.

I thought C1 required a subscription last I checked? Otherwise you have to buy each new version right? But with Adobe you get a lot of software for the money. And let's be honest, C1 doesn't have all the features of Photoshop.

 shawnphoto's gear list:shawnphoto's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon EOS RP Canon EOS R5 Canon EF 24-105mm F4L IS II USM Canon RF 28-70mm F2L USM +4 more
Kameratrollet Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?
2

RawTherapee and AMaZE

RawTherapee and VNG4

RawTherapee and AMaZE and green equilibration put to 1

darktable and AMaZE

darktable and VNG4

Kameratrollet Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

You can read more about Green equilibration here https://rawpedia.rawtherapee.com/Preprocessing

VNG4 vs AMaZE here https://rawpedia.rawtherapee.com/Demosaicing

OP Hadrian R Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?
1

UPDATE:

The Camera Store finally got a replacement camera in for me.

Unfortunately, the new camera is doing exactly the something. I'm getting the same strange lines/patterns shooting wide opening with the effect diminishing around f/1.8 using the RF 85mm f/1.2L lens.

I'm attaching another screen captured zoom in, as well as linking to a new RAW file from the new camera.

Also, I can see these same lines from the camera generated JPEG preview on the back of the camera screen or through the EVF.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lgd0ilhkbfj8dz3/AAAD_pA_Bo_diMb49p9v8Jioa?dl=0

I'm kind of at a loss at this point. I bought this camera and lens combination to shoot wide open. I don't want to be worried about these artifacts, or whatever they are, while I'm trying to enjoy the camera.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe the problem lies with the lens. Could the lens be at fault here? It seems unlikely, but I just don't know...

 Hadrian R's gear list:Hadrian R's gear list
Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Canon EF 85mm F1.2L II USM Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 2x III +2 more
OP Hadrian R Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?
4

It turns out that DPReview's own samples from the lens show the problem in the highlights too.

Check this out from image 315A0001.CR3 in DPReview's

lens sample gallery:

 Hadrian R's gear list:Hadrian R's gear list
Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Canon EF 85mm F1.2L II USM Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 2x III +2 more
Kameratrollet Regular Member • Posts: 456
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Hadrian R wrote:

UPDATE:

The Camera Store finally got a replacement camera in for me.

Unfortunately, the new camera is doing exactly the something. I'm getting the same strange lines/patterns shooting wide opening with the effect diminishing around f/1.8 using the RF 85mm f/1.2L lens.

I'm attaching another screen captured zoom in, as well as linking to a new RAW file from the new camera.

Also, I can see these same lines from the camera generated JPEG preview on the back of the camera screen or through the EVF.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lgd0ilhkbfj8dz3/AAAD_pA_Bo_diMb49p9v8Jioa?dl=0

I'm kind of at a loss at this point. I bought this camera and lens combination to shoot wide open. I don't want to be worried about these artifacts, or whatever they are, while I'm trying to enjoy the camera.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe the problem lies with the lens. Could the lens be at fault here? It seems unlikely, but I just don't know...

What if you use VNG4 as I showed you?

NoTicket Regular Member • Posts: 209
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Hadrian R wrote:

UPDATE:

The Camera Store finally got a replacement camera in for me.

Unfortunately, the new camera is doing exactly the something. I'm getting the same strange lines/patterns shooting wide opening with the effect diminishing around f/1.8 using the RF 85mm f/1.2L lens.

I'm attaching another screen captured zoom in, as well as linking to a new RAW file from the new camera.

Also, I can see these same lines from the camera generated JPEG preview on the back of the camera screen or through the EVF.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lgd0ilhkbfj8dz3/AAAD_pA_Bo_diMb49p9v8Jioa?dl=0

I'm kind of at a loss at this point. I bought this camera and lens combination to shoot wide open. I don't want to be worried about these artifacts, or whatever they are, while I'm trying to enjoy the camera.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe the problem lies with the lens. Could the lens be at fault here? It seems unlikely, but I just don't know...

Try turning off silent shutter.

coso dp
coso dp Regular Member • Posts: 277
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

I really can't understand what is going on, this is so strange

shawnphoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,172
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Hadrian R wrote:

UPDATE:

The Camera Store finally got a replacement camera in for me.

Unfortunately, the new camera is doing exactly the something. I'm getting the same strange lines/patterns shooting wide opening with the effect diminishing around f/1.8 using the RF 85mm f/1.2L lens.

I'm attaching another screen captured zoom in, as well as linking to a new RAW file from the new camera.

Also, I can see these same lines from the camera generated JPEG preview on the back of the camera screen or through the EVF.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lgd0ilhkbfj8dz3/AAAD_pA_Bo_diMb49p9v8Jioa?dl=0

I'm kind of at a loss at this point. I bought this camera and lens combination to shoot wide open. I don't want to be worried about these artifacts, or whatever they are, while I'm trying to enjoy the camera.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe the problem lies with the lens. Could the lens be at fault here? It seems unlikely, but I just don't know...

I figured that would be the case. The good news is it looks like some RAW processors will fix the issues.

 shawnphoto's gear list:shawnphoto's gear list
Canon EOS R Canon EOS RP Canon EOS R5 Canon EF 24-105mm F4L IS II USM Canon RF 28-70mm F2L USM +4 more
rrc1967 Senior Member • Posts: 1,853
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Hadrian R wrote:

UPDATE:

The Camera Store finally got a replacement camera in for me.

Unfortunately, the new camera is doing exactly the something. I'm getting the same strange lines/patterns shooting wide opening with the effect diminishing around f/1.8 using the RF 85mm f/1.2L lens.

I'm attaching another screen captured zoom in, as well as linking to a new RAW file from the new camera.

Also, I can see these same lines from the camera generated JPEG preview on the back of the camera screen or through the EVF.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lgd0ilhkbfj8dz3/AAAD_pA_Bo_diMb49p9v8Jioa?dl=0

I'm kind of at a loss at this point. I bought this camera and lens combination to shoot wide open. I don't want to be worried about these artifacts, or whatever they are, while I'm trying to enjoy the camera.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe the problem lies with the lens. Could the lens be at fault here? It seems unlikely, but I just don't know...

lenses can certainly cause some issues with electrical interference. have you tried any other lens? even an EF lens the adapter,etc?

I quickly scanned the thread, but didn't notice you tried CR2's instead of CR3's - apologies if you have. CR3 files are a lossy compression, artifacts may appear especially at this level of inspection.

To be honest though, I've stared at this image for a good minute and I can't see the lines. If you are honestly worried to this extent, the first thing I'd remove is CR3's.

Edit: I could certainly see the issue at 200% in DPP, I'd still first try CR2's.

OP Hadrian R Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

rrc1967 wrote:

Hadrian R wrote:

UPDATE:

The Camera Store finally got a replacement camera in for me.

Unfortunately, the new camera is doing exactly the something. I'm getting the same strange lines/patterns shooting wide opening with the effect diminishing around f/1.8 using the RF 85mm f/1.2L lens.

I'm attaching another screen captured zoom in, as well as linking to a new RAW file from the new camera.

Also, I can see these same lines from the camera generated JPEG preview on the back of the camera screen or through the EVF.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lgd0ilhkbfj8dz3/AAAD_pA_Bo_diMb49p9v8Jioa?dl=0

I'm kind of at a loss at this point. I bought this camera and lens combination to shoot wide open. I don't want to be worried about these artifacts, or whatever they are, while I'm trying to enjoy the camera.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe the problem lies with the lens. Could the lens be at fault here? It seems unlikely, but I just don't know...

lenses can certainly cause some issues with electrical interference. have you tried any other lens? even an EF lens the adapter,etc?

I quickly scanned the thread, but didn't notice you tried CR2's instead of CR3's - apologies if you have. CR3 files are a lossy compression, artifacts may appear especially at this level of inspection.

To be honest though, I've stared at this image for a good minute and I can't see the lines. If you are honestly worried to this extent, the first thing I'd remove is CR3's.

Edit: I could certainly see the issue at 200% in DPP, I'd still first try CR2's.

Hi,

Thanks again for responding.

I don't think there's a way of going back to .CR2 on the R system. .CR3 is the new norm. There is a C-CR3, which I am not using. Other than that, however, there isn't any other formats to choose from.

 Hadrian R's gear list:Hadrian R's gear list
Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Canon EF 85mm F1.2L II USM Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 2x III +2 more
OP Hadrian R Regular Member • Posts: 142
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

I don't have any other super fast glass in the f/1.2-1.8 range, unfortunately. My other lenses are f/2.8's.

I just tried the bokeh Christmas Tree test the using the EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro lens and the EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II super telephoto lens.

Neither of those two lenses show the problem.

I am going to head back to The Camera Store and try using a few other copies of the RF 85mm f/1.2 and also try the RF 50 f/1.2. I suspect I will see the same thing with both those lenses.

 Hadrian R's gear list:Hadrian R's gear list
Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Canon EF 85mm F1.2L II USM Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM Canon Extender EF 2x III +2 more
onlyfreeman
onlyfreeman Senior Member • Posts: 2,353
Re: Are these horizontal lines normal from R cameras?

Hadrian R wrote:

It turns out that DPReview's own samples from the lens show the problem in the highlights too.

Check this out from image 315A0001.CR3 in DPReview's

lens sample gallery:

Can you link the image in the DPR gallery? It's not showing for me.

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