Is the Pentax model really important?

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Oiche Senior Member • Posts: 1,768
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?
1

Hythloday wrote:

Anders_Nilsson wrote:

In addition I personally believe that 24mp was the cornerstone of the market. Just like nothing important happened in the film market in the 1990's nothing important has happened in the DSLR market since 2013 when Pentax started to use the 24mp APS-C sensor.

The growth in MP's has stopped.

Has it? What are Canon APSC 32 MP and Sony a7r iv 61 MP full frame or Fuji 102 MP MF 44x33mm (twice as much as 645Z for same sensor size) then?

Now camera manufacturers try to make improvements by introducing pixel shift, etc.

In the computer world a similar thing took place some years ago. Some 20 years ago you had to buy a new computer every three years.

Really? I don't remember that rule either. Your 7 year old computer is a snail compared to today's stuff. I just built one a few months ago, a rocketship that eats Lightroom and can do virtual reality, how is VR on your computer?

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Oiche Senior Member • Posts: 1,768
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

Massao wrote:

Hythloday wrote:

Anders_Nilsson wrote:

In addition I personally believe that 24mp was the cornerstone of the market. Just like nothing important happened in the film market in the 1990's nothing important has happened in the DSLR market since 2013 when Pentax started to use the 24mp APS-C sensor.

The growth in MP's has stopped. Now camera manufacturers try to make improvements by introducing pixel shift, etc.

In the computer world a similar thing took place some years ago. Some 20 years ago you had to buy a new computer every three years. Personally I have used my present computer for some 7 years and it still works allright. A new computer will work faster, not because it has more RAM memory, but because it works more effeciently with it.

Spot on!! The "processing" power has not improved much in last 10 years--- the key improvement is that newer CPU's use less energy (watts) and in turn dissipate less energy (heat).

Watt? Excuse the pun 😂 The difference is gigantic, compare a 10 year old top rank desktop CPU with one from today. Frequency and Moore's law levelled off relativeky speaking so then the development of multi-cores, threads, bus speeds and more were brought in.

Try post processing a modern big file on a 10 year old PC... No thank you! Especially heavy post processing.

 Oiche's gear list:Oiche's gear list
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Massao Senior Member • Posts: 2,363
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

Oiche wrote:

Massao wrote:

Hythloday wrote:

Anders_Nilsson wrote:

In addition I personally believe that 24mp was the cornerstone of the market. Just like nothing important happened in the film market in the 1990's nothing important has happened in the DSLR market since 2013 when Pentax started to use the 24mp APS-C sensor.

The growth in MP's has stopped. Now camera manufacturers try to make improvements by introducing pixel shift, etc.

In the computer world a similar thing took place some years ago. Some 20 years ago you had to buy a new computer every three years. Personally I have used my present computer for some 7 years and it still works allright. A new computer will work faster, not because it has more RAM memory, but because it works more effeciently with it.

Spot on!! The "processing" power has not improved much in last 10 years--- the key improvement is that newer CPU's use less energy (watts) and in turn dissipate less energy (heat).

Watt? Excuse the pun 😂 The difference is gigantic, compare a 10 year old top rank desktop CPU with one from today. Frequency and Moore's law levelled off relativeky speaking so then the development of multi-cores, threads, bus speeds and more were brought in.

Try post processing a modern big file on a 10 year old PC... No thank you! Especially heavy post processing.

Compare the difference in CPU performance by benchmarks and consider price as well. GPU is another apect and yes that has improved a lot because more and more graphic intensive interfaces and applications are in use today. My old and dead10 year old laptop had Intel Core i7-2630QM. It was bought for about 1000GBP 10 years ago (lasted 5-6 years). Compare its CPU performance against today's laptops for similar price and you will note that there is hardly any improvement in raw processing power/dime GPU is another story though.

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Kind regards,
Massao
--
First camera: Canon FTB; First autofocus SLR camera: Pentax; First Nikon: F601 (N6006); First digital camera: Sony DSC-W5; First DSLR: Nikon D70; First mirrorless ICL camera: Samsung nx11

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OP Hythloday Senior Member • Posts: 2,154
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

Oiche wrote

Has it? What are Canon APSC 32 MP and Sony a7r iv 61 MP full frame or Fuji 102 MP MF 44x33mm (twice as much as 645Z for same sensor size) then

Has Pentax gone out of business? You just mention other brands.

In 2019 no new Pentax camera was put on the market. In 2018 just one ff camera. The latest APC camera was announced in January 2017, while the K-70 is from 2016.

OP Hythloday Senior Member • Posts: 2,154
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

Oiche wrote

Your 7 year old computer is a snail compared to today's stuff.

It still does a good job. Is speedy processing  important for you?

Oiche Senior Member • Posts: 1,768
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

Massao wrote:

Oiche wrote:

Massao wrote:

Hythloday wrote:

Anders_Nilsson wrote:

In addition I personally believe that 24mp was the cornerstone of the market. Just like nothing important happened in the film market in the 1990's nothing important has happened in the DSLR market since 2013 when Pentax started to use the 24mp APS-C sensor.

The growth in MP's has stopped. Now camera manufacturers try to make improvements by introducing pixel shift, etc.

In the computer world a similar thing took place some years ago. Some 20 years ago you had to buy a new computer every three years. Personally I have used my present computer for some 7 years and it still works allright. A new computer will work faster, not because it has more RAM memory, but because it works more effeciently with it.

Spot on!! The "processing" power has not improved much in last 10 years--- the key improvement is that newer CPU's use less energy (watts) and in turn dissipate less energy (heat).

Watt? Excuse the pun 😂 The difference is gigantic, compare a 10 year old top rank desktop CPU with one from today. Frequency and Moore's law levelled off relativeky speaking so then the development of multi-cores, threads, bus speeds and more were brought in.

Try post processing a modern big file on a 10 year old PC... No thank you! Especially heavy post processing.

Compare the difference in CPU performance by benchmarks and consider price as well. GPU is another apect and yes that has improved a lot because more and more graphic intensive interfaces and applications are in use today. My old and dead10 year old laptop had Intel Core i7-2630QM. It was bought for about 1000GBP 10 years ago (lasted 5-6 years). Compare its CPU performance against today's laptops for similar price and you will note that there is hardly any improvement in raw processing power/dime GPU is another story though.

Your CPU is 8 years old at most, came out in 2011, a quick CPU comparison to a £1000 laptop and a 2018 release CPU reveals a performance of less than 1/2. Same TDP 45Watts and there is better performance per dime if you look for a newer one especially in AMD. The lithography is smaller, same as GPU chips, and the single thread performance has doubled in 7 years. Similar to how they can fit more pixels into a sensor. 😉

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i7-2630QM-vs-Intel-i7-8750H/873vs3237

How and why would CPU not get better? Makes no sense mate considering technological improvement, sorry I'm more of a computer geek than a camera geek 😁

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Oiche Senior Member • Posts: 1,768
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

Hythloday wrote:

Oiche wrote

Your 7 year old computer is a snail compared to today's stuff.

It still does a good job. Is speedy processing important for you?

Yes hence why I got a new PC, waiting for Lightroom to do something had my head melted and made post processing totally depressing to the point where I stopped doing it, I can also do new post processing where it was impossible before. The upgrade to 24MP 14bit K-70 plus all the new features placed even more demand on the post processing and required a Lightroom upgrade too to take advantage of the speedy computer. 😀

 Oiche's gear list:Oiche's gear list
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Gary Martin
Gary Martin Veteran Member • Posts: 4,576
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?
4

Subject + composition + lighting + technique + creativity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gear

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Massao Senior Member • Posts: 2,363
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

Oiche wrote:

Massao wrote:

Oiche wrote:

Massao wrote:

Hythloday wrote:

Anders_Nilsson wrote:

In addition I personally believe that 24mp was the cornerstone of the market. Just like nothing important happened in the film market in the 1990's nothing important has happened in the DSLR market since 2013 when Pentax started to use the 24mp APS-C sensor.

The growth in MP's has stopped. Now camera manufacturers try to make improvements by introducing pixel shift, etc.

In the computer world a similar thing took place some years ago. Some 20 years ago you had to buy a new computer every three years. Personally I have used my present computer for some 7 years and it still works allright. A new computer will work faster, not because it has more RAM memory, but because it works more effeciently with it.

Spot on!! The "processing" power has not improved much in last 10 years--- the key improvement is that newer CPU's use less energy (watts) and in turn dissipate less energy (heat).

Watt? Excuse the pun 😂 The difference is gigantic, compare a 10 year old top rank desktop CPU with one from today. Frequency and Moore's law levelled off relativeky speaking so then the development of multi-cores, threads, bus speeds and more were brought in.

Try post processing a modern big file on a 10 year old PC... No thank you! Especially heavy post processing.

Compare the difference in CPU performance by benchmarks and consider price as well. GPU is another apect and yes that has improved a lot because more and more graphic intensive interfaces and applications are in use today. My old and dead10 year old laptop had Intel Core i7-2630QM. It was bought for about 1000GBP 10 years ago (lasted 5-6 years). Compare its CPU performance against today's laptops for similar price and you will note that there is hardly any improvement in raw processing power/dime GPU is another story though.

Your CPU is 8 years old at most,

Could very well be .. I thought it was older:-)

came out in 2011, a quick CPU comparison to a £1000 laptop and a 2018 release CPU reveals a performance of less than 1/2.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i7-2630QM-vs-Intel-i7-8750H/873vs3237

Good demonstration. I7-8750H is one of the highest in CPU Mark/Price ratio, so clever selection of CPU With this example, I stand corrected that itIS possible to get double CPU power in a comparison between two similarly priced CPU's --eight years apart in time.

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Kind regards,
Massao
--
First camera: Canon FTB; First autofocus SLR camera: Pentax; First Nikon: F601 (N6006); First digital camera: Sony DSC-W5; First DSLR: Nikon D70; First mirrorless ICL camera: Samsung nx11

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DougOB
DougOB Senior Member • Posts: 1,289
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?
1

Oiche wrote:

Hythloday wrote:

Oiche wrote

Your 7 year old computer is a snail compared to today's stuff.

It still does a good job. Is speedy processing important for you?

Yes hence why I got a new PC, waiting for Lightroom to do something had my head melted and made post processing totally depressing to the point where I stopped doing it, I can also do new post processing where it was impossible before. The upgrade to 24MP 14bit K-70 plus all the new features placed even more demand on the post processing and required a Lightroom upgrade too to take advantage of the speedy computer. 😀

Of course you realize that I can not share this thread with my wife, even if I want/(need?) a new computer, let alone camera.  A recent email about a very nice slot race car setup ended in suggestions of divorce    

Doug

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Massao Senior Member • Posts: 2,363
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

DougOB wrote:

Oiche wrote:

Hythloday wrote:

Oiche wrote

Your 7 year old computer is a snail compared to today's stuff.

It still does a good job. Is speedy processing important for you?

Yes hence why I got a new PC, waiting for Lightroom to do something had my head melted and made post processing totally depressing to the point where I stopped doing it, I can also do new post processing where it was impossible before. The upgrade to 24MP 14bit K-70 plus all the new features placed even more demand on the post processing and required a Lightroom upgrade too to take advantage of the speedy computer. 😀

Of course you realize that I can not share this thread with my wife, even if I want/(need?) a new computer, let alone camera. A recent email about a very nice slot race car setup ended in suggestions of divorce

Doug

Hahaha

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Kind regards,
Massao
--
First camera: Canon FTB; First autofocus SLR camera: Pentax; First Nikon: F601 (N6006); First digital camera: Sony DSC-W5; First DSLR: Nikon D70; First mirrorless ICL camera: Samsung nx11

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miles green
miles green Veteran Member • Posts: 7,391
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?
1

Hythloday wrote:

This year my wife and I visited the same place as 10 years ago. This year I used my K-3 and DA16-85mm lens. Ten years ago I used a K200D and DA17-70mm lens. When the K-3 is compared to the K200D, every site will say that the quality of the K-3 is far better than that of the K200D. But when I compare the two pictures of the church, the weather plays a very important role. It is not only the camera that is important, but the photographer’s eye and the weather play a far more important part. When looking back I found some pictures taken with the K200D and DA12-24mm and DA16-45mm lenses.

This is so true. it is importamt to have a camera, any camera these days, with you for when the lighting suddenly looks just right, or for that special unexpected moment.

What a beautiful location!

Someone sent the cows to graze on the Windows background!

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Miles Green
Pentaxian since 1997!
Corfu, Greece
N.B. All my images are protected by Copyright

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Oiche Senior Member • Posts: 1,768
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

Hythloday wrote:

klimbkat wrote:

So, I guess I've got to keep buying gear and going places . . .

The last 4 pictures were taken during cycling trips. There was a moment when I said the camera and lens are a bit heavy to cycle around, especially when I replaced my DA16-45mm with a DA17-60mm. My solution was to buy a compact camera, a Panasonic Lumix LX 5. A very good camera, but when the sun shines you can hardly see anything on the screen. My solution is now to use a K-S2 with primes when the weather is not very bright.

I've been to Holland a few times, brought my bike there in 2001 to watch the Tour De France in Belgium and France. I loved cycling in Holland because of the provisions for cycling and safety it provides. Here it is lethal, absolutely dangerous so much that I can't enjoy it any longer, it is a wonder I'm still alive as I did 20,000km a year when I was a racer.

I still go out on the bike for a short photo trip, usually with K-70, DA* 60-250 and a few more below and just make sure I don't crash as it is all in a lightweight backpack with no protection! 😨

Use bicycle panniers to alleviate the weight, good for food shopping also 😃

 Oiche's gear list:Oiche's gear list
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Oiche Senior Member • Posts: 1,768
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

Massao wrote:

Oiche wrote:

Massao wrote:

Oiche wrote:

Massao wrote:

Hythloday wrote:

Anders_Nilsson wrote:

In addition I personally believe that 24mp was the cornerstone of the market. Just like nothing important happened in the film market in the 1990's nothing important has happened in the DSLR market since 2013 when Pentax started to use the 24mp APS-C sensor.

The growth in MP's has stopped. Now camera manufacturers try to make improvements by introducing pixel shift, etc.

In the computer world a similar thing took place some years ago. Some 20 years ago you had to buy a new computer every three years. Personally I have used my present computer for some 7 years and it still works allright. A new computer will work faster, not because it has more RAM memory, but because it works more effeciently with it.

Spot on!! The "processing" power has not improved much in last 10 years--- the key improvement is that newer CPU's use less energy (watts) and in turn dissipate less energy (heat).

Watt? Excuse the pun 😂 The difference is gigantic, compare a 10 year old top rank desktop CPU with one from today. Frequency and Moore's law levelled off relativeky speaking so then the development of multi-cores, threads, bus speeds and more were brought in.

Try post processing a modern big file on a 10 year old PC... No thank you! Especially heavy post processing.

Compare the difference in CPU performance by benchmarks and consider price as well. GPU is another apect and yes that has improved a lot because more and more graphic intensive interfaces and applications are in use today. My old and dead10 year old laptop had Intel Core i7-2630QM. It was bought for about 1000GBP 10 years ago (lasted 5-6 years). Compare its CPU performance against today's laptops for similar price and you will note that there is hardly any improvement in raw processing power/dime GPU is another story though.

Your CPU is 8 years old at most,

Could very well be .. I thought it was older:-)

came out in 2011, a quick CPU comparison to a £1000 laptop and a 2018 release CPU reveals a performance of less than 1/2.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i7-2630QM-vs-Intel-i7-8750H/873vs3237

Good demonstration. I7-8750H is one of the highest in CPU Mark/Price ratio, so clever selection of CPU With this example, I stand corrected that itIS possible to get double CPU power in a comparison between two similarly priced CPU's --eight years apart in time.

Then you have all the other faster components as well which working together really makes a night vs day comparison. I have DDR4 3200 MHz RAM and NVMe M.2 SSD drive (a small card that slots into the back of the motherboard) hence the rocketship performance.

All this with far less electricity and almost complete silence as the fans only spin on high demand, Lightroom doesn't make any of the fans spin (except CPU) at any time, the PSU fan doesn't come on meaning it is below 100W usage whilst in the development module in LR. Only fan that spins is the CPU as it is the AMD stock cooler and I haven't put a semi passive one on yet. The GTX 1060 GPU fans don't spin in LR either, it's great as PC noise stressed me out for 20 years.

You don't need to spend that much, AMD have great CPU and onboard GPU chips far better than Intel and cheap. A very cheap and fast photo editing computer can be built this way inside a really small enclosure, the days of ugly noisy towers are long gone although gaming extremists still use them for over clocking with water etc... Completely unnecessary for photo editing though 😉

 Oiche's gear list:Oiche's gear list
Pentax K-70 Pentax smc DA* 60-250mm F4.0 ED (IF) SDM Pentax smc DA 40mm F2.8 Limited Samyang 14mm F2.8 ED AS IF UMC HD Pentax DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited +1 more
Anders_Nilsson Contributing Member • Posts: 573
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

Oiche wrote:

Hythloday wrote:

Anders_Nilsson wrote:

In addition I personally believe that 24mp was the cornerstone of the market. Just like nothing important happened in the film market in the 1990's nothing important has happened in the DSLR market since 2013 when Pentax started to use the 24mp APS-C sensor.

The growth in MP's has stopped.

Has it? What are Canon APSC 32 MP and Sony a7r iv 61 MP full frame or Fuji 102 MP MF 44x33mm (twice as much as 645Z for same sensor size) then?

Now camera manufacturers try to make improvements by introducing pixel shift, etc.

In the computer world a similar thing took place some years ago. Some 20 years ago you had to buy a new computer every three years.

Really? I don't remember that rule either. Your 7 year old computer is a snail compared to today's stuff. I just built one a few months ago, a rocketship that eats Lightroom and can do virtual reality, how is VR on your computer?

Maybe so, but my Millennium Falcon equivalent Dell Precision M4600 with i7-2760QM and Nvidia Q2000 is still plenty good enough for my tasks. Of course today's cpu's are faster, but for everyday tasks I don't experience any issue.

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OP Hythloday Senior Member • Posts: 2,154
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

miles green wrote:

What a beautiful location!

It is, especially in autumn. The building you see used to be a court of justice and the lower part of the white building was the prison. Later it was an inn and a hotel.

OP Hythloday Senior Member • Posts: 2,154
Re: Is the Pentax model really important?

Oiche wrote:

Yes hence why I got a new PC, waiting for Lightroom to do something had my head melted and made post processing totally depressing to the point where I stopped doing it, I can also do new post processing where it was impossible before. The upgrade to 24MP 14bit K-70 plus all the new features placed even more demand on the post processing and required a Lightroom upgrade too to take advantage of the speedy computer. 😀

In the past the first (2 ?) versions of Lightroom were free for me. Adobe bought Rawshooter and called it Lightroom. There is still an old Rawshooter forum:

http://pub31.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=2601722344&frmid=242&msgid=0

I liked Rawshooter but did not like Lightroom.

I noticed the same thing with my 24MP 14 bit  K-3. These files require a lot of memory. Photography is just a hobby for me and I don't process RAW files every day. My old computer still does a good job for all the tasks it has to do.

I see the same kind of development for computers and cameras. The old gear works all right but doesn't have some features of the latest models. Pentax has not introduced new APC models since 2007. The line of introducing new APC models has slowed down considerably.

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