80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?

Started 2 months ago | Questions
Joshpls
Joshpls New Member • Posts: 1
80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?
2

I'm stuck trying to decide which camera to buy for my first purchase. I currently was gifted two lens' from my friend (EF 17-40mm f/4L USM Lens, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Lens) and Zomie z669c Tripod. I have watched 100's of review's and I'm torn between the three. I keep going back and forth on what I should pick.

I have ~$1000 to spend, a little over if need. I mainly will be using the camera for landscape photography as I love to Hike/Trek all over the world. Just came back from Banff National Park. I don't really care about video, but it's nice to have if I need.

Two of my friends are telling me to stick with the 80D as my first purchase to get a feel for the DSLR, weatherproof, and overall a decent camera. Then to upgrade later when mirrorless is more fleshed out with Canon or switch to Sony Mirrorless. And use the remaining total into investing in more lenses. Concern though is that it's too heavy, outdated, etc.

If I buy the m6m2, I'll need to buy an EF Adapter, and EVF. Putting me roughly $1,150 which is stretching my budget. Also, concerned that the EVF is going to be annoying/ bulky and the camera won't be weatherproof, and of course the battery life.

With the RP, I would need to buy an adapter, it's not weather-sealed, and battery life.

Without writing out all the pros/cons that I see on review sites, what camera / route would you recommend?

**The Canon 90D is starting $1200 which is over my budget, but I guess that's a contender too.

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Canon EOS 80D Canon EOS M6 Canon EOS RP
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Rodrigo Pasiani Junior Member • Posts: 42
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?
1

In this case I'd buy the RP and the adapter. The 17-40 mm will give you a nice field of view for landscapes. An APS-C would require an additional wide angle lens. Have fun.

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jvc1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,666
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?
2

For me, the add on viewfinder on the M6 MKII is a deal breaker. I think you'd do best the RP. The 80d is still a good camera but, as another said, the 17-40 will be better on the RP than on a crop body.

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Dave
Dave Veteran Member • Posts: 4,904
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?
2

Wait for a deal on the RP (maybe a refurb?) where the adaptor is included.

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Raanani Regular Member • Posts: 109
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?
2

I think you put too much attention to weather sealing. I would not use any of the cameras you mention in heavy rain. M6 is a nice camera but it is light and small, so using it with an adapter and ef lenses would make an unbalanced combo. I'd look at 80d or RP. RP would probably be more fun. Good luck with your photographic adventure!

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JPAlbert Contributing Member • Posts: 703
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?
1

Both of your gifted lenses are full-frame capable.

One more vote for the RP to take full advantage of that (also for the wider field-of-view for landscapes).

Although the R would be even better!

RRAz Regular Member • Posts: 184
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?

Just to add my local Costco is selling 80Ds with a two lens kit for under $900...

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Rock and Rollei Senior Member • Posts: 1,889
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?
2

For me, the key requirement you have is hiking/trekking. That means weight and bulk is absolutely at a premium, so I would without question recommend the M6 II. I would also suggest selling the 17-40 and replacing it with the EF-M 11-22. That kit gives nothing away in IQ to the others - it's probably better - and is significantly smaller and lighter.   It's a no-brainer, in fact. I would also consider selling the 50 to buy a 22mm f2 for lower light use - it's a tiny little lens, but optically very decent.

The RP is pretty small and light, but it's lenses aren't. If you really wanted to stay with a DSLR, the 250D/SL3 with EF-S lenses would make sense because of size and weight, but it's significantly more than the M6 II with EF-M lenses.
Personally, I shoot professionally with the 5D IV and EOS R (backed up with a 6D and 7D II), and I use those same cameras for some of my landscapes - but for travel and hiking, I use Ms, and have done for a while. The separate viewfinder for me is a huge advantage - if I want to travel really light, I don't need to carry it.  Remove it, and the camera packs down pretty small, and it can be tucked away almost anywhere.

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Robert Krawitz Contributing Member • Posts: 729
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?

In case it helps...

I normally shoot a 7DmkII (with a 7D as a backup/second body).  My heavy shooting is sports (football and basketball), but I llike to shoot on vacations and such.  I'm not a professional, but sometimes I shoot that way.

I picked up a refurb M5 from Canon cheap ($400) this spring, somewhat on a lark, but I find it convenient to carry around with a Tamron 16-300 and adapter.  In fact, this was my body on a recent vacation.  I brought along my Sigma 50-500 because I knew we were going to visit Safari Park in San Diego, but otherwise I mostly used the 16-300 and sometimes my Sigma 8-16.  I also brought my 50 f/1.8 STM and 22 f/2 EF-M (from an earlier purchase of a first generation EOS M), but never wound up using them.  I'm also effectively the site photographer at work, and I always keep my M5 with me there.

So how do I like the M5?  There are some warts, but overall I quite like it.  I would definitely not want to do without the viewfinder (M6 II), though.  The camera's a bit too small for me (I have big hands), it's too easy to actuate the touch screen with my face, and a few others.  The AF is definitely not as snappy as either 7D, but it's not bad, and it's a much easier body to manual focus with, thanks to focus peaking.  This came in useful at the safari park when I was shooting animals through glass or chain link fence.  In fact, I even got a BIF (which is partly a comment on the AF) that way.

Battery life is a problem.  I got about 300 frames or so and went through 2 batteries each day.  The OEM batteries for that body are ridiculously expensive; I bought some third party ones.  They probably don't last as long, but they served their purpose.  In contrast, last Saturday I shot 2800 frames on my 7DmkII with plenty of life left.  The CIPA ratings on that body are a lot lower, but it's based on a pattern of usage that most 7D users are not likely to emulate.

I did have a chance to shoot a Sony 6300 (IIRC) for one frame, taking a portrait of a couple on a hike, and based on that the 6300 felt much more responsive.  But it's really hard to draw conclusions from a single frame; the Tamron 16-300 has responsiveness problems on my other bodies as well.  The Sigma 50-500 was much more responsive.

If you're mostly shooting landscapes and such, the 80D won't offer you a lot of benefit, while the full frame and higher resolution of the RP would.

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Sailor Blue
Sailor Blue Forum Pro • Posts: 15,228
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?

I'm not going to tell you which camera I recommend at first, just give you what I hope you will find to be some helpful information. Ultimately only you can decide which camera best suits your needs and your budget, and compromise is always necessary.

The lenses you have will fit either a 6D II or an 80D without any adapters.

In my opinion the R series of cameras is close to but not completely ready for prime time.

Must landscapes are shot with short focal length lenses but there are many times when you get a better landscape if you use a longer focal length lens. Shooting portraits, another big use of any camera, should be done with longer focal length lenses. Flexibility is key in any type of photography!

If you didn't have any lenses I would recommend the 80D with a EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS or EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM kit lens.

Canon U.S.A. : Consumer & Home Office : EF Lens Lineup

The 80D is an APS-C camera so the effective focal length of any lens is about 1.6 times the given focal length. This means these lenses have an effective focal length range of 29-216mm.

I shot landscapes for many years with a FF film camera and 35mm or 50mm lenses so a length of 18mm (29mm effective) is a reasonable wide angle focal length for landscapes with the 80D. Being able to zoom to a longer focal length opens up new ways to shoot landscapes and cityscapes. Flexibility!

Portraits should be shot from 15' to prevent perspective distortion, extension distortion or compression distortion. These are incorrectly called wide angle and telephoto distortion but they have absolutely nothing to do with the focal length of the lens, only the distanced between the subject and the camera.

With an APS-C camera at 15' portraits should be shot between 50mm (80mm effective) for full length and 200mm (320 effective) for a tight head shot with the focal length varying depending on the portrait composition between these extremes. Flexibility!

The EF-S 18-135mm lenses don't reach the 200mm for a tight head shot so you simply move in as little as possible to keep extension distortion as small as possible. Shooting at 15' eliminates but anywhere down to 10' keeps distortion so small that it is hard to detect. If necessary crop the image a bit in post. You will still have plenty of pixels for a 11"x14" or even 20"x30" portrait print if desired- I have seen great 20"x30" portraits from a 3 Mp camera.

Of course you can also use the lenses you already have on an 80D. The 50mm lens is a good one for street people photography because of the wider aperture. You shouldn't stop down more than necessary so you keep a wider depth of field but it is nice to have the wider aperture for those times it is needed.

What about the full frame 6D II?

The 6d II can give you a little bit better image quality and the same focal length lens will have a wider angle of view with the FF camera for landscapes/cityscapes.

The current lenses you have will work with it. Both the EF 17-40mm f/4L USM lens and the 50mm lens are good starter lens for landscapes. The 50mm lens is a good general purpose lens.

Budget priced general purpose zooms for the FF cameras are not as common and to get good quality general purpose lenses for 6D II will take more money than for the 80D. The EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM and the EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM are the more budget priced general purpose zooms for FF cameras.

Okay, finally my recommendations.

Based purely on budget constraints buy the 80D as a kit with one of the EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 lenses. Sell the EF 17-40mm f/4L USM lens and get the EF-M 11-22 lens as Rock and Rollei recommended.  Keep the 50mm f/1.4 lens. This is a very good kit for almost any type of photography.

If you intend on investing more money over the next year or two then buy the 6D II and use your current lenses until you know if you need a different lens and what it should be. Keep your eyes open for good used or refurbished lenses.

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Raanani Regular Member • Posts: 109
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?
1

EF-M will not fit the 80D. The EF-M lenses will work on Canon M-series cameras only.

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Rock and Rollei Senior Member • Posts: 1,889
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?

The EF-M lenses ONLY fit the EOS M series of cameras. If you want the advantages of the smallest and lightest kit, then in Canon, this is the way to go. But further, the M6 II has Canon's best APS-C sensor, and one of the best on the market - it's the same as the 90D, a fair bit better than the 80D.

The one camera that I think should be immediately ruled out is the 80D.  I can't in all honesty think of one reason to prefer this FOR THE STATED REQUIREMENTS over an RP, M6 II or 250D. It's relatively bulky and heavy, the 17-40 provides no meaningful wideangle on it - all camera choices are a compromise, but this one seems to be in the wrong areas. A 250D/SL3 would give the same IQ but in a considerably smaller and lighter package, for instance, so is surely a much better bet. The RP would make the most of the existing lenses, but those lenses aren't perfect - there's no IS on either of them, and if you want to use the camera handheld whilst hiking, that's quite a loss. It's amazing how much the physical exertion of walking with a heavy pack takes out of you and your ability to hold a camera steady  - a lesson I learned the hard way. Yes, you can use the tripod, but that's not always convenient - and besides, you might well have left it behind to cut down on weight. Which would make me lean towards replacing the lenses, even if just the 17-40 (which is not a lens I'm a huge fan of, to be honest - it's ok at f8-11 on full frame, but just too soft wider open. To replace it on the RP is expensive - way over budget to even get the 16-35 f4 L.  I think the budget and size and weight of the lenses make it a relatively poor choice unless you absolutely want full frame.
250D/SL3 is a reasonable bet if you sell the 17-40 and buy the 10-18 - much smaller and lighter than the RP and 17-40, and a fair bit lighter than the 80D, too, with the same IQ.
But the M6 II is the smallest, lightest, with smaller, lighter lenses with IS AND better IQ. It's almost as if it was designed for hiking and travel....
As long as you can get it in budget, like I said, it's a no-brainer.

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Sailor Blue
Sailor Blue Forum Pro • Posts: 15,228
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?

Raanani wrote:

EF-M will not fit the 80D. The EF-M lenses will work on Canon M-series cameras only.

The OP said he had EF lenses, not EF-M lenses.

I fail to see why the point about EF-M lenses is relevant to what I wrote.

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Rock and Rollei Senior Member • Posts: 1,889
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?
2

Sailor Blue wrote:

Raanani wrote:

EF-M will not fit the 80D. The EF-M lenses will work on Canon M-series cameras only.

The OP said he had EF lenses, not EF-M lenses.

I fail to see why the point about EF-M lenses is relevant to what I wrote.

You said this:

"Sell the EF 17-40mm f/4L USM lens and get the EF-M 11-22 lens as Rock and Rollei recommended."
The point was entirely relevant to that.

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Sailor Blue
Sailor Blue Forum Pro • Posts: 15,228
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?

I hope we can agree to respectively disagree.

As I stated, in my opinion, the R series of cameras is close to but not really ready for prime time.  By that I mean that they are not yet full replacements for DSLRs.  They will be in another generation or two, but not now.

Here is why.

I learned in the early 2000s with my first digital camera, a 3 Mp Canon P&S, that trying to use the LCD screen for composition in bright light simply doesn't work, and it still doesn't work with my 6 month old cell phone.

One solution to not being able to use the LCD for composition in bright light is to go back to using a black cloth draped over your head and the camera like they used to do with glass plate cameras.

A much better solution to composing an image in bright light is a viewfinder.

The M6 Mark II doesn't have a built-in viewfinder.

Canon apparently recognized that only using the camera's LCD isn't acceptable for composing images in some light levels so they also include an auxiliary electronic viewfinder that fits into the camera's hot-shoe with the camera.  This works for composition in all levels of light, but then you can't put a hot-shoe flash on the camera.

Indoors or outdoors I use a hot-shoe flash or a RF triggered off-camera flash much of the time.  I need that hot-shoe.

Holding the camera snug against my face with my elbows tucked in against my body stabilizes the camera to reduce camera shake.  Try doing that with a camera that relies on you holding the camera a foot in front of your face so you can use the camera's LCD for composition.

These are examples why, in my opinion, the R series of cameras is not yet a full replacement for DSLRs.

I do agree that the 90D is a better camera than the 80D, but the 80D is no slouch as a DSLR.

The OP is working with a limited budget and not a very good selection of lenses for general purpose photography.  That is why I suggest he buy an 80D kit with a general purpose 18-135mm kit lens.

If the OP can find a kit with the 90D and an 18-135mm kit lens that is within his budget then that would indeed be a better choice.

Compromise is always necessary when you are on a budget.  The OP needs to spend his money wisely to get the best camera that is within that budget, and I my opinion that is the 80D kit or a 90D kit if he can stretch his budget that far.  His next best option is a 6D, or a 6D II if the price is right.

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Hoxton Bridge
Hoxton Bridge Contributing Member • Posts: 877
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?

Joshpls wrote:

I'm stuck trying to decide which camera to buy for my first purchase. I currently was gifted two lens' from my friend (EF 17-40mm f/4L USM Lens, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Lens) and Zomie z669c Tripod. I have watched 100's of review's and I'm torn between the three. I keep going back and forth on what I should pick.

I have ~$1000 to spend, a little over if need. I mainly will be using the camera for landscape photography as I love to Hike/Trek all over the world. Just came back from Banff National Park. I don't really care about video, but it's nice to have if I need.

Two of my friends are telling me to stick with the 80D as my first purchase to get a feel for the DSLR, weatherproof, and overall a decent camera. Then to upgrade later when mirrorless is more fleshed out with Canon or switch to Sony Mirrorless. And use the remaining total into investing in more lenses. Concern though is that it's too heavy, outdated, etc.

If I buy the m6m2, I'll need to buy an EF Adapter, and EVF. Putting me roughly $1,150 which is stretching my budget. Also, concerned that the EVF is going to be annoying/ bulky and the camera won't be weatherproof, and of course the battery life.

With the RP, I would need to buy an adapter, it's not weather-sealed, and battery life.

Without writing out all the pros/cons that I see on review sites, what camera / route would you recommend?

**The Canon 90D is starting $1200 which is over my budget, but I guess that's a contender too.

The lenses you have are perfectly good glass for the tasks you have in mind. However, they will only fulfil that role with a FF sensor - APS-C will leave you with odd focal lengths for the photography you want to do. My advice would be to dispense with the 80D and M6ii for the above reasons and purchase either: the RP with an adapter if you like the idea of mirrorless, or my preferred option, the 6D mark 2 which is a very good tool for the type of photography you have expressed an interest in.  The latter is a bit over budget, but maybe a well looked after used model from a reputable dealer might be appropriate, or you can save a bit and spend a bit more on what would be a much more suitable tool.

Good luck.

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RogerZoul
RogerZoul Senior Member • Posts: 2,440
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?

Sailor Blue wrote:

I hope we can agree to respectively disagree.

As I stated, in my opinion, the R series of cameras is close to but not really ready for prime time. By that I mean that they are not yet full replacements for DSLRs. They will be in another generation or two, but not now.

Here is why.

** snip **

It feels like the twilight zone in here.

Why should the OP get an EF-M lens when he has no body on which to use it?

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Sailor Blue
Sailor Blue Forum Pro • Posts: 15,228
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?

RogerZoul wrote:

Sailor Blue wrote:

I hope we can agree to respectively disagree.

As I stated, in my opinion, the R series of cameras is close to but not really ready for prime time. By that I mean that they are not yet full replacements for DSLRs. They will be in another generation or two, but not now.

Here is why.

** snip **

It feels like the twilight zone in here.

Why should the OP get an EF-M lens when he has no body on which to use it?

Sorry, you are right, I did quote Rock and Rollei when he suggested buying a "EF-M 11-22". I was thinking of the EF lens and didn't even notice that he had suggested the M lens.

The EF 11-24mm f/4L USM lens would a great super wide lens for use with the 80D, 6D, or 6DII except for the fact that it costs $2699.  To me a more sensible, and a considerably less expensive way to get super wide images is to do panoramas.

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Robert Krawitz Contributing Member • Posts: 729
Re: 80D, M6 Mark II, or RP?

Sailor Blue wrote:

The EF 11-24mm f/4L USM lens would a great super wide lens for use with the 80D, 6D, or 6DII except for the fact that it costs $2699. To me a more sensible, and a considerably less expensive way to get super wide images is to do panoramas.

The Sigma 12-24 is another option.

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