Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro

Started 2 months ago | Discussions
Dexter75 Senior Member • Posts: 2,361
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro
3

CanonIsAwesome wrote:

Hi,

opinions welcome seems todays phones are getting pretty good.

All depends on what you shoot and what you intend to do with the images. I just did a shoot the other day with my RP and my 11 Pro in studio. The images from either would work for social media and/or magazine print which is primarily what I do. If you shoot landscape, architecture, lots of low light or something that requires a FF sensor or you are making super large prints, you will obviously want a FF sensor. There are many things an iPhone will work for though.

jayk0607 Regular Member • Posts: 104
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro

CanonIsAwesome wrote:

Hi,

opinions welcome seems todays phones are getting pretty good.

Just switched from 6D2 to RP last week.

I've seen tons of xxx phone vs xxx phone vs FF camera etc... comparing the fake bokeh and the night mode using computational photography. And yes, cameras on mobile phone came a long way. One thing common in those comparison is that they almost always shoot still scenery/subject. I wonder how much mobile camera improved on shooting moving subject in low light.

My main subject is my 4 year old daughter and nephews and niece, ages from 3-7. I have an old phone (Galaxy Note 8) and it struggles to take half decent shot in low light situation, let alone do fake bokeh for subject isolation. How does new phones, iphone 11 or pixel do in such situation? Many times I shoot them playing in poorly lit indoor (indoor playground such as Billy Beez, Chuck E Cheese, indoor gymnastics/trampline, ballet, indoor swimming, etc.). For example, I want to shoot my daughter jumping around in trampoline with bunch of other kids and isolate her with bokeh. How would newer phones do? My 6d2 and Canon 70-200 f/2.8 ii got the job done for me. Haven't tried with RP yet, but I assume results would be similar (less few fps I lose).

Since my Note 8 is not capable yet, I almost always carry ILC when I go out with my daughter. Either my FF or M50 with 22 f2 as needed.

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J A C S
J A C S Forum Pro • Posts: 15,502
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro

This is not Twitter. You are allowed to post more than one line.

Rawpaul
Rawpaul Senior Member • Posts: 1,809
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro

J A C S wrote:

This is not Twitter. You are allowed to post more than one line.

Thanks for the heads up 

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Rawpaul
Rawpaul Senior Member • Posts: 1,809
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro
1

CanonIsAwesome wrote:

Hi,

opinions welcome seems todays phones are getting pretty good.

They should be at the prices they come at.

IMHO still no comparison with dedicated camera systems . 

-light is the source of all life.....:

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ZX11
ZX11 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,117
iPhone 6

I'm sure the iPhone 11Pro is pretty good for those who need its capabilities.  No camera does everything for everyone.

The iPhone 6 is pretty good. So are GoPro Hero 7's. I use my iPhone 6 when it is good to have picture taken that needs to be sent quick.

I use the GoPro when the camera has to be durable and it might be dragged on the ground, dropped in a lake, or fell on. Or I need something small and light without the "slice of bread" shape of a iPhone (aerodynamic on an ATV).

The EOS R is good in poor lighting situations. Or, I need more detail across the frame.

It was easier to use the iPhone 6 for this shot. Though I did try to use my EOS R to take the pic of my EOS R. I wasn't fast enough

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gsmayes Regular Member • Posts: 135
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro

All these articles prove is that a FF camera can do everything an iPhone 11 Pro can and not the other way around.

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NowHearThis
NowHearThis Veteran Member • Posts: 3,789
Photos | Games

I like the iPhone 11 Pro.  I’m waiting for a sweet deal to upgrade my 8.  All my current games run well on the 8, but I’d feel more confident downloading games like Pubg, Asphalt 9, and a few others that look interesting to me.  If I could get it with 256GB of Memory that would be nice too.

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NHT

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User5942872967 Regular Member • Posts: 188
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro
1

I’ve owned every iPhone since 4s. Also own several canon ff. Computational photography is the next level that will encompass most scenarios. Action shots (long telephoto), very low light are where ff still wins. Download focos app and see computational photography and how powerful it is to never miss another focus ever again. To be able to change your focus point after taking a picture is unbelievable. Smart hdr knows to automatically fix high backlit photos because it can identify the people in the photos. Even GoPro are have live video now because everyone wants that immersive feeling or hearing the moment and seeing it move for a second. Geotagging pics automatically and having backups to the cloud immediately is another plus. Even canon is moving away from jpg and going with heif format that Apple has been using.

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User5942872967 Regular Member • Posts: 188
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro

gsmayes wrote:

All these articles prove is that a FF camera can do everything an iPhone 11 Pro can and not the other way around.

U kidding right. Ff can’t do Live Photo’s, change focus point after the fact, long exposure afterwards, any soft of computational photography. Then add in post work that can be done on the phone va what the ff can barely do. Smart hdr is non existent on ff.

when it comes to video, put the phone is a gimbal that is going to cost u a 1/3 of what a gimbal for ff will cost you, slap flimic and grab multiple angles at the same time. Still things ff can’t do.

Then when u add in how the workflow on the phone is just so much faster and easier there is a no brained why in my toolkit I own both.

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lawny13 Senior Member • Posts: 1,928
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro

User5942872967 wrote:

I’ve owned every iPhone since 4s. Also own several canon ff. Computational photography is the next level that will encompass most scenarios. Action shots (long telephoto), very low light are where ff still wins. Download focos app and see computational photography and how powerful it is to never miss another focus ever again. To be able to change your focus point after taking a picture is unbelievable. Smart hdr knows to automatically fix high backlit photos because it can identify the people in the photos. Even GoPro are have live video now because everyone wants that immersive feeling or hearing the moment and seeing it move for a second. Geotagging pics automatically and having backups to the cloud immediately is another plus. Even canon is moving away from jpg and going with heif format that Apple has been using.

Tech and software and automation etc etc are the future. Sure, I don't argue against that. I am an engineer and thus I am also someone involved in the realization of those types of innovations. 
But it is a fact that your starting point does make a difference. 
Take the A320 vs the boeing 737 max planes. The A320 was built from the ground up. Boeing on the other hand made some cost savings. They took the previous boeing 737s and put on larger engines newly designed to be competitive to the A320 fuel economy. Due to the shift in center of mass the plane would tend to dive down. So they put in software to deal with this issue.

As we know now, when the software fails things go wrong. Without the software a pilot would constantly have to fight the plane to keep it level. Tech can do a lot, but it isn't god, it isn't magic and it isn't the answer to everything. 
I have often thought "I will shoot the images from my phone in RAW and PP, things have come a long way". I place the photos of my iphone in LR and what do I see? Dullish pictures from the HDR process, or shadows that need to be lifted, and highlights pushed down, etc etc. Just minor tweaks to the images have them fall apart quickly. Push up shadows and you see loads of noise or no info in the first place. Push down shadows and you get splotchy highlights with discrete segmentation. Then zoom in and have a look. Less detail, more mushiness, and weird color gradients. The list goes on. 
People seem to forget that when you show someone a phone image and they say wow... they mean wow for a phone. The basis for those phones is this simple.... it is a tiny sensor, with loads of tiny pixels packed into a small space. The amount of information that is there for the software to work with is considerably smaller than something coming out of a FF sensor. 
Computational photography (CP) will becomes a force to recon with. BUT, if I were to have it I would rather have it combined with a better starting point. And that would have to be balanced out. For example.... I would think that a M43 or a crop sensor camera with CP would be a good balance. Enough formation for the software to work with, yet cheaper, smaller, and better for the speed demands that might be needed. 
Now... if you just do SOOC jpegs from  your camera, then I can imagine that your phone competes or is good enough in comparison. If you PP... you will quickly see that... nope.

lawny13 Senior Member • Posts: 1,928
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro

Oh ya... checked out the focos app you suggested. Looks cool. 
But as per my previous post, the same thing applies. Computational photography is a stand alone tech. It isn't just applicable to phones. The spacial information that these apps used is essentially based on canon's DPAF tech. Phase detection on sensor allows for it. So... no reason that you couldn't use it on larger sensor images. Of course the biggest issue is capture speed. The smaller sensors allows for a lot of images to be captured at once to be used for these sorts of things.

User5942872967 Regular Member • Posts: 188
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro
1

I work for the largest networking company in the world as an engineer. We’ve seen this before. Tech makes things simpler and easier. As an engineer in tech that means I have to up my game and continue to evolve. My experience is where I bring the value.

Like the skills it took to use film and develop vs spray and pray we do with digital. Canon has hands down the better optics but apple’s development team is head and shoulders above canon. There is a reason why camera sells are down. Computational photography is the ultimate raw.  Multiple angles or the same picture taken and having the ability to go back and adjust front blur and rear blur much less never missing focus ever again. Then add night mode, deep fusion, Live Photo’s, smart hdr, filmic multi angle video, capturing photo while video.

After 20 years of digital photography I can finally crop on my r. At least my r has bt and nfc. Samsung, google and Apple are updating not just their software rapidly but their hardware too. It takes camera manufacturer too long. Canon and Nikon will probably just focus on the niche like sports and wildlife photography. Shooting with my r does make me feel like a photographer but there is no doubt the quality of pictures I’ve taken with my iPhones much less getting them wet, action sport, etc my phones have given me through the years.

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User5942872967 Regular Member • Posts: 188
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro

lawny13 wrote:

User5942872967 wrote:

I’ve owned every iPhone since 4s. Also own several canon ff. Computational photography is the next level that will encompass most scenarios. Action shots (long telephoto), very low light are where ff still wins. Download focos app and see computational photography and how powerful it is to never miss another focus ever again. To be able to change your focus point after taking a picture is unbelievable. Smart hdr knows to automatically fix high backlit photos because it can identify the people in the photos. Even GoPro are have live video now because everyone wants that immersive feeling or hearing the moment and seeing it move for a second. Geotagging pics automatically and having backups to the cloud immediately is another plus. Even canon is moving away from jpg and going with heif format that Apple has been using.

Tech and software and automation etc etc are the future. Sure, I don't argue against that. I am an engineer and thus I am also someone involved in the realization of those types of innovations.
But it is a fact that your starting point does make a difference.
Take the A320 vs the boeing 737 max planes. The A320 was built from the ground up. Boeing on the other hand made some cost savings. They took the previous boeing 737s and put on larger engines newly designed to be competitive to the A320 fuel economy. Due to the shift in center of mass the plane would tend to dive down. So they put in software to deal with this issue.

As we know now, when the software fails things go wrong. Without the software a pilot would constantly have to fight the plane to keep it level. Tech can do a lot, but it isn't god, it isn't magic and it isn't the answer to everything.
I have often thought "I will shoot the images from my phone in RAW and PP, things have come a long way". I place the photos of my iphone in LR and what do I see? Dullish pictures from the HDR process, or shadows that need to be lifted, and highlights pushed down, etc etc. Just minor tweaks to the images have them fall apart quickly. Push up shadows and you see loads of noise or no info in the first place. Push down shadows and you get splotchy highlights with discrete segmentation. Then zoom in and have a look. Less detail, more mushiness, and weird color gradients. The list goes on.
People seem to forget that when you show someone a phone image and they say wow... they mean wow for a phone. The basis for those phones is this simple.... it is a tiny sensor, with loads of tiny pixels packed into a small space. The amount of information that is there for the software to work with is considerably smaller than something coming out of a FF sensor.
Computational photography (CP) will becomes a force to recon with. BUT, if I were to have it I would rather have it combined with a better starting point. And that would have to be balanced out. For example.... I would think that a M43 or a crop sensor camera with CP would be a good balance. Enough formation for the software to work with, yet cheaper, smaller, and better for the speed demands that might be needed.
Now... if you just do SOOC jpegs from your camera, then I can imagine that your phone competes or is good enough in comparison. If you PP... you will quickly see that... nope.

I saw a video the other day of canon dual pixel sensor and the adjustment ability. Omg it was hilarious. Tony Northrup even said it was a waste. Software just isn’t there on a canon. They make really good glass. The ASICS takes way to long to make it to the market. Their development team takes even longer to get the software written. Just look at the advancement in smartphone cameras in the past 4 years vs camera companies. There is a reason camera sells are down every where. The pro grade camera we own have become a niche market play to action shots, night photography and long range

ive been shooting raw on my iPhone with the latest ProCam and focos. Pretty fun. The light trails on ProCam is pretty slick. Adding in Live Photo’s, ability to edit raw pics, cloud uploading for sharing, etc.... the workflow improvement is pointing the way. Accessories cost like gimbals and moment lens for phones even have lots of pros like potato jet, Tony and Peter admitting it’s fun and easier.

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David Pavlich
David Pavlich Veteran Member • Posts: 4,005
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro
1

I have about a dozen photos on my phone.  It's a phone.  I have thousands of shots saved on my computer and many prints hanging on walls that were taken with my camera because it's a camera.

If you like the convenience of the phone for your images, it's the best for you.  I like my phone because it works really well....as a phone.  When I want to take a shot that counts for anything, I use my camera.

David

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coso dp
coso dp Regular Member • Posts: 222
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro

David Pavlich wrote:

I have about a dozen photos on my phone. It's a phone. I have thousands of shots saved on my computer and many prints hanging on walls that were taken with my camera because it's a camera.

If you like the convenience of the phone for your images, it's the best for you. I like my phone because it works really well....as a phone. When I want to take a shot that counts for anything, I use my camera.

David

Recently I am more and more shooting with my EOS RP and then editing the photos on my phone (photos go mostly on Instagram). It's so much more fast and convenient (also due to che lack of support of .CR3 files). I need a full frame camera because I can't replicate that bokeh with my iPhone 8, but everything *after* taking the photo? I would rather use a phone or a tablet.

David Pavlich
David Pavlich Veteran Member • Posts: 4,005
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro

coso dp wrote:

David Pavlich wrote:

I have about a dozen photos on my phone. It's a phone. I have thousands of shots saved on my computer and many prints hanging on walls that were taken with my camera because it's a camera.

If you like the convenience of the phone for your images, it's the best for you. I like my phone because it works really well....as a phone. When I want to take a shot that counts for anything, I use my camera.

David

Recently I am more and more shooting with my EOS RP and then editing the photos on my phone (photos go mostly on Instagram). It's so much more fast and convenient (also due to che lack of support of .CR3 files). I need a full frame camera because I can't replicate that bokeh with my iPhone 8, but everything *after* taking the photo? I would rather use a phone or a tablet.

We use what's best for our work flow.  I don't use IG, so what goes on my phone that was taken by my camera is there to act as the phone's wallpaper.

David

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Tuloom Veteran Member • Posts: 3,382
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro
3

User5942872967 wrote:

I’ve owned every iPhone since 4s.

You should be given a seat on the board.

Tuloom Veteran Member • Posts: 3,382
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro
6

User5942872967 wrote:

I work for the largest networking company in the world as an engineer.

You should be given an honorary Phd from MIT.

I once rode on a fire engine.

Buttons252
Buttons252 Senior Member • Posts: 1,367
Re: Full frame vs iPhone 11 Pro
3

A close friend of mine recently used an Iphone 11 pro for his family photo shoot when his olympus E-520 failed to work.  They look pretty fantastic.  It was outdoor, good lighting.  images held up VERY well on my 32" 2560x1400 monitor.  Group photos failed to blur out the background, but single person portraits had the "dslr look"

To my eye, the quality of the pictures looked a lot like my dads Nikon D5200 + 17-55mm F2.8 lens.  Impressive from a phone

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