Fuji gets titanium, Olympus gets...plastic?

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Wildalaskaken
Wildalaskaken Contributing Member • Posts: 922
Re: Fuji gets titanium, Olympus gets...plastic?
5

dinoSnake wrote:

Mitrajoon wrote:

The plastic used is as strong as Titanium and bounces better.

Uh-uh. Yeah. Right.

I'm sure the aerospace industry will quickly, and heartily, not agree with that claim.

that's what the gun crowd used to say when Glock made his first plastic pistol.

Just an old fat stoner with a Camera.
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justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 8,727
Re: Fuji gets titanium, Olympus gets...plastic?
4

Aesthetically, as a general rule, I like the look of black plastic better than "fake chrome", or whatever you call a silver finished plastic.

justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 8,727
Re: Fuji gets titanium, Olympus gets...plastic?
1

Wildalaskaken wrote:

dinoSnake wrote:

Mitrajoon wrote:

The plastic used is as strong as Titanium and bounces better.

Uh-uh. Yeah. Right.

I'm sure the aerospace industry will quickly, and heartily, not agree with that claim.

that's what the gun crowd used to say when Glock made his first plastic pistol.

My shiny stainless steel revolver looks way better than a Glock.

tjuster1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,134
Re: Fuji gets titanium, Olympus gets...plastic?
3

LoneTree1 wrote:

New Fuji has a titanium (skin?) body. Nice to see that coming back from the SLR days. Yes, I know. The Fuji costs more. Quality instead of cost-cutting usually does.

Trying to figure out the point of this post. Just m43 bashing? Don't you have anything better to do with your time?

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pdelux Contributing Member • Posts: 857
Re: Titanium?
10

dinoSnake wrote:

pdelux wrote:

HRC2016 wrote:

Why would anyone need titanium? Bragging rights?

Just go out and take pictures.

Obviously he is taking Astro shots ---- in space..

Ironic how quickly the tide turns to supporting plastics, when for the past 7 years on this board the metal construction of many Olympus cameras was enthusiastically advanced as a major selling point over the competition...

Im all for metal bodies, but titanium is overkill, when there are less expensive alternatives. Titanium has the best weight to strength ratio, but we just taking photos, not going to mars.

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orca_kkl Regular Member • Posts: 256
Re: Fuji gets titanium, Olympus gets...plastic?
2

justmeMN wrote:

My shiny stainless steel revolver looks way better than a Glock.

The brushed SS revolvers from S&W look really nice!

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TomFid Veteran Member • Posts: 3,329
Re: enough with the metal obsession
2

LoneTree1 wrote:

TomFid wrote:

Are you going to pound nails with your camera?

Personally, I'm happy to have polycarbonate. It won't frost up as much in cold weather, and the black edges won't wear off.

I'm much more worried about breaking a lens, lens mount, LCD panel, or control dial than I am about breaking the body itself.

I admit that there's a certain allure to the feel of metal, but I don't think it's particularly rational, and I don't need it to stroke my ego.

It's not an obsession, it's a trend.

Ah, so it's fashion. Either way, it's not reason or necessity.

Bodies cost more, now more are metal.

I think you may have the causality backwards here. They cost more because metal costs more to fabricate. Complexity and a shrinking market probably have more to do with it though.

Olympus inexplicably is bucking it.

Good for them.

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Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 40,162
Re: Fuji opts for artificial price / artificial value hike
2

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

LoneTree1 wrote:

New Fuji has a titanium (skin?) body. Nice to see that coming back from the SLR days. Yes, I know. The Fuji costs more. Quality instead of cost-cutting usually does.

If Nikon had issued the X-Pro3 w/ titanium top plate, people would be SMEARING them with sniggers, laughs and mud, found one million reasons why such a camera is badly designed, larger than some FF mirrorless, adds premium materials only to inflate the price on components that basically cost $500.

That would be people's take on Nikon X-Pro3.

But many do not realise the Fujifilm actually did that: added totally nonessential finish as an excuse to raise the asking price, on what is, in essence, LESS and more complicated than found in their other cameras that cost less and are easier to use.

With E-M5Mk3, though, Olympus did the opposite; they created a new category of a camera, for those users that appreciate image taking power in the lightest package possible. I like this approach better because the goal and execution are excellent, and down to earth.

Well imagine this. Fuji has several camera models and they also offer a small light model. that is current, modern- also it's less than $900 USD and doesn't use years old sensor technology, but the same as the flagships in their line up - XT3 and Xpro3.

This doesn't mean the Em5.3 is bad or anything. Just putting in perspective what Fuji has done.

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LoneTree1
OP LoneTree1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,131
Re: Great if you think a titanium body is essential

Jorginho wrote:

Not if you are aware that plastic nowadays can be extremely solid and strong and do not need a titanium feel or look.

Since when have we cared solely about what is "essential" for a camera to have?

LenRivers Senior Member • Posts: 1,517
Re: Fuji gets titanium, Olympus gets...plastic?

I think the initial impression review said and if it matters, the titanium version takes on finger prints and dirt easier than the regular version of the Xpro3

Cameras have been plastic type for a while now even the higher end DSLR's have parts like that.

If you ever held something like the Nikon D4s you would feel a tank of a camera.

Tango 55 Regular Member • Posts: 488
Olympus' mistake: not making it "composite"...
4

Polycarbonate is a excellent material, but if they added 1% of carbon fibers, they could have called "composite", and make a big story around it.

Olympus Engineering knows its plastics very well, so I feel confident we'll get a great body. But is Marketing at the same level...?

Cheers,

Ricky

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MEDISN
MEDISN Senior Member • Posts: 1,066
Re: Fuji opts for artificial price / artificial value hike
7

Raist3d wrote:

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

LoneTree1 wrote:

New Fuji has a titanium (skin?) body. Nice to see that coming back from the SLR days. Yes, I know. The Fuji costs more. Quality instead of cost-cutting usually does.

If Nikon had issued the X-Pro3 w/ titanium top plate, people would be SMEARING them with sniggers, laughs and mud, found one million reasons why such a camera is badly designed, larger than some FF mirrorless, adds premium materials only to inflate the price on components that basically cost $500.

That would be people's take on Nikon X-Pro3.

But many do not realise the Fujifilm actually did that: added totally nonessential finish as an excuse to raise the asking price, on what is, in essence, LESS and more complicated than found in their other cameras that cost less and are easier to use.

With E-M5Mk3, though, Olympus did the opposite; they created a new category of a camera, for those users that appreciate image taking power in the lightest package possible. I like this approach better because the goal and execution are excellent, and down to earth.

Well imagine this. Fuji has several camera models and they also offer a small light model. that is current, modern- also it's less than $900 USD

Also lacks weather sealing and IBIS.  Add those to it and what’s the new size, weight and price?

and doesn't use years old sensor technology, but the same as the flagships in their line up - XT3 and Xpro3.

BSI has been in APS-C since 2014.  “Years old sensor technology” lol

This doesn't mean the Em5.3 is bad or anything. Just putting in perspective what Fuji has done.

Fuji has a nice lineup but there is nothing as compact as the EM5mkIII with IBIS and weather sealing at ANY price.

Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 40,162
Re: Fuji opts for artificial price / artificial value hike
1

MEDISN wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

LoneTree1 wrote:

New Fuji has a titanium (skin?) body. Nice to see that coming back from the SLR days. Yes, I know. The Fuji costs more. Quality instead of cost-cutting usually does.

If Nikon had issued the X-Pro3 w/ titanium top plate, people would be SMEARING them with sniggers, laughs and mud, found one million reasons why such a camera is badly designed, larger than some FF mirrorless, adds premium materials only to inflate the price on components that basically cost $500.

That would be people's take on Nikon X-Pro3.

But many do not realise the Fujifilm actually did that: added totally nonessential finish as an excuse to raise the asking price, on what is, in essence, LESS and more complicated than found in their other cameras that cost less and are easier to use.

With E-M5Mk3, though, Olympus did the opposite; they created a new category of a camera, for those users that appreciate image taking power in the lightest package possible. I like this approach better because the goal and execution are excellent, and down to earth.

Well imagine this. Fuji has several camera models and they also offer a small light model. that is current, modern- also it's less than $900 USD

Also lacks weather sealing and IBIS. Add those to it and what’s the new size, weight and price?

That is true. It's all tradeoffs. You gain in turn the advantages the bigger sensor brings. And save also $400 USD.  Point is- there are several valid markets here. The person I am replying to is criticizing Fuji film as if they had done nothing.

Whether the EM5.3 brings something unique to the table - or not- is besides the point.  Thats' why I said this doesn't mean the Em5.3 is bad or anything, not sure why you are so defensive.

and doesn't use years old sensor technology, but the same as the flagships in their line up - XT3 and Xpro3.

BSI has been in APS-C since 2014. “Years old sensor technology” lol

The sensor is 26MP BSI and uses copper interconnect.  It's way newer than m43rds sensors

This doesn't mean the Em5.3 is bad or anything. Just putting in perspective what Fuji has done.

Fuji has a nice lineup but there is nothing as compact as the EM5mkIII with IBIS and weather sealing at ANY price.

Ironically an Xpro3 with the smaller primes in size and weights competes with an EM5MKiii because the weather sealed primes that are small don't exist. Except for the just announced Panasonic re-issued 25mm F1.4.

It would be great if Olympus re-issued the lenses.

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Zvonimir Tosic
Zvonimir Tosic Senior Member • Posts: 2,987
Re: Fuji opts for artificial price / artificial value hike
12

Raist3d wrote:

Well imagine this. Fuji has several camera models and they also offer a small light model. that is current, modern- also it's less than $900 USD and doesn't use years old sensor technology, but the same as the flagships in their line up - XT3 and Xpro3.

This doesn't mean the Em5.3 is bad or anything. Just putting in perspective what Fuji has done.

Right now, I am not aware of any imaging company that has put more features, from the top tier bodies, into a new camera; 1. that weighs less, that is 2. even more powerful and 3. ergonomically improved and has 4. superior weather-sealing (now officially rated), and 5. state of the art IBIS

Fujifilm and Sony have some cameras in the 'price range', thanks to the economy of deliberate depreciation of some products, but they have no camera with everything that that EM5Mk3 comes with! Not all five points from above, no. They are all quite inferior to the Mk3 total package, and you pay for that inferiority too.

For Olympus, this was possible only if a new category camera had to be made, for a specific new market of users, very demanding users, and not only to make another 'entry-level camera'.

Their approach is quite different here.

Is that why we have waited (for so long) for a new Mk3? It is aimed at a different market group, because the market changed. With Mk3, Olympus targeted the backpackers, adventurers, and the older population, keen amateur photographers who do appreciate as light as possible equipment, or experience some strain and/or discomfort when carrying or using larger equipment or setup, and who don't mind taking their camera anywhere.

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dinoSnake Veteran Member • Posts: 3,400
Re: Titanium?
5

pdelux wrote:

dinoSnake wrote:

pdelux wrote:

HRC2016 wrote:

Why would anyone need titanium? Bragging rights?

Just go out and take pictures.

Obviously he is taking Astro shots ---- in space..

Ironic how quickly the tide turns to supporting plastics, when for the past 7 years on this board the metal construction of many Olympus cameras was enthusiastically advanced as a major selling point over the competition...

Im all for metal bodies, but titanium is overkill, when there are less expensive alternatives. Titanium has the best weight to strength ratio, but we just taking photos, not going to mars.

Everyone is forgetting...the Olympus OM-3T and OM-4T.

MEDISN
MEDISN Senior Member • Posts: 1,066
Re: Fuji opts for artificial price / artificial value hike
3

Raist3d wrote:

MEDISN wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

LoneTree1 wrote:

New Fuji has a titanium (skin?) body. Nice to see that coming back from the SLR days. Yes, I know. The Fuji costs more. Quality instead of cost-cutting usually does.

If Nikon had issued the X-Pro3 w/ titanium top plate, people would be SMEARING them with sniggers, laughs and mud, found one million reasons why such a camera is badly designed, larger than some FF mirrorless, adds premium materials only to inflate the price on components that basically cost $500.

That would be people's take on Nikon X-Pro3.

But many do not realise the Fujifilm actually did that: added totally nonessential finish as an excuse to raise the asking price, on what is, in essence, LESS and more complicated than found in their other cameras that cost less and are easier to use.

With E-M5Mk3, though, Olympus did the opposite; they created a new category of a camera, for those users that appreciate image taking power in the lightest package possible. I like this approach better because the goal and execution are excellent, and down to earth.

Well imagine this. Fuji has several camera models and they also offer a small light model. that is current, modern- also it's less than $900 USD

Also lacks weather sealing and IBIS. Add those to it and what’s the new size, weight and price?

That is true. It's all tradeoffs. You gain in turn the advantages the bigger sensor brings. And save also $400 USD. Point is- there are several valid markets here. The person I am replying to is criticizing Fuji film as if they had done nothing.

Whether the EM5.3 brings something unique to the table - or not- is besides the point. Thats' why I said this doesn't mean the Em5.3 is bad or anything, not sure why you are so defensive.

and doesn't use years old sensor technology, but the same as the flagships in their line up - XT3 and Xpro3.

BSI has been in APS-C since 2014. “Years old sensor technology” lol

The sensor is 26MP BSI and uses copper interconnect. It's way newer than m43rds sensors

A distinction without a difference.

This doesn't mean the Em5.3 is bad or anything. Just putting in perspective what Fuji has done.

Fuji has a nice lineup but there is nothing as compact as the EM5mkIII with IBIS and weather sealing at ANY price.

Ironically an Xpro3 with the smaller primes in size and weights competes with an EM5MKiii because the weather sealed primes that are small don't exist.

This implies one is limited to small primes. The EM5mkIII with 14-150 is a weather sealed package ($1500) Fuji can’t match.  There are more WR mFT primes and zooms than X-system offers.

It would be great if Olympus re-issued the lenses.

Agree 100%

cba_melbourne Senior Member • Posts: 1,577
Re: Fuji gets titanium, Olympus gets...plastic?
7

Mitrajoon wrote:

The plastic used is as strong as Titanium and bounces better.

Polycarbonate has roughly 1/8 the tensile strength of Titanium, and weighs about 4 times less by volume. Hence, Titanium is about twice as strong for the same weight.

Titanium "bounces" quite well too, it can easily bend and stretch without damage. For example, there are springs made of Titanium, just as there are springs made of Polycarbonate.

Titanium parts cost a LOT more though, because Titanium is a beast to machine or form. Whereas Polycarbonate can be very cheaply mass produced by injection molding. Titanium can be injection molded too, but it's melting point is 1,668C. Plycarbonate melts already at 225C.

For comparison, Magnesium which is also often used for camera chassis melts at 650C. It has about 3-4 times the tensile strength of Polycarbonate, and weighs only about 1.5 times as much. It is rather brittle though, meaning it breaks easily when bent.

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Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 40,162
Re: Fuji opts for artificial price / artificial value hike
3

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

Well imagine this. Fuji has several camera models and they also offer a small light model. that is current, modern- also it's less than $900 USD and doesn't use years old sensor technology, but the same as the flagships in their line up - XT3 and Xpro3.

This doesn't mean the Em5.3 is bad or anything. Just putting in perspective what Fuji has done.

Right now, I am not aware of any imaging company that has put more features, from the top tier bodies, into a new camera; 1. that weighs less, that is 2. even more powerful and 3. ergonomically improved and has 4. superior weather-sealing (now officially rated).

Like I said- I am not disputing that the Em5.3 has its unique things. But you seem to mention this on Fuji as if Fuji did nothing. But when the very top camera EM1X is using the same older 20 MP sensor, doesn't seem as surprising in bringing top of line to down like when Fuji pushing with a new faster less rolling shutter sensor on an XT3 vs XT2, then putting that on an XT30 some time ago doesn't seem that unique.

Fujifilm and Sony have some cameras in the 'price range', thanks to the economy of deliberate depreciation of some products, but they have no camera with everything that that EM5Mk3 comes with!

You can make that argument with an X-H1. You have weather sealing, IBIS, amazingly detailed video, fast refresh EVF, ability to put a battery grip, etc. Or in the XT30 at the price it is. Again, it's not that the EM5.3 is bad, it's that the other options are also compelling on their own right.

i.e. there's no need to trash Fuji because they did the Xpro3 going out of the way of the established, to pump the virtues of an EM5.3, and I also disagree with the clickbait headline of the first poster.

For Olympus, this was possible only if a new category camera had been made, for a specific new market of users, very demanding users, and not only to make another 'entry-level camera'.

Actually Olympus is like 2 years late with a VERY predictable camera model. This is not creating a unique new category- this is bringing to the market what should have been an obvious conclusion in the m43rds model line two years ago.

Their approach is quite different here.

No, not really. Not at all. What's more predictable - the EM5.3 or what Fuji did with the Xpro3? (whether you agree in the end with their choice or not).

Is that why we have waited (for so long) for a new Mk3? It is aimed at a different market group, because the market changed.

No. How exactly is it aimed at a different market group? Isn't it the people that wanted a small high performance m43rds camera? Sounds like again, something that's been talk about for a while. Not a surprise.

With Mk3, Olympus targeted the backpackers, adventurers, and the older population, keen amateur photographers who do appreciate as light as possible equipment, or experience some strain and/or discomfort when carrying or using larger equipment or setup, and who don't mind taking their camera anywhere.

This is *exactly* what m43rds has been marketed for all along. This is why I said, that choosing to put out the EM1X is at best a mistake in priorities vs having come out with an Em5.3 camera.

There's no market creation here or revolution. A sizable set of m43rds owners (and even reviewers) were expecting something like this to happen. It's not a surprise. And its' what m43rds should have been about all along in recent years, and was a bit earlier (hence EM5 line, GHX, GX line, etc.).

I don't see the market creation nor revolution here. This is what was expected.

Again: that doesn't mean the EM5.3 is a bad camera. I am most likely getting one. But a revolutionary surprise? Created for the adventurers, backpackers, global trotter travelers of the world? Do you take marketing words at face value from any company?

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Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 40,162
Re: Fuji opts for artificial price / artificial value hike
1

MEDISN wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

MEDISN wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

LoneTree1 wrote:

New Fuji has a titanium (skin?) body. Nice to see that coming back from the SLR days. Yes, I know. The Fuji costs more. Quality instead of cost-cutting usually does.

If Nikon had issued the X-Pro3 w/ titanium top plate, people would be SMEARING them with sniggers, laughs and mud, found one million reasons why such a camera is badly designed, larger than some FF mirrorless, adds premium materials only to inflate the price on components that basically cost $500.

That would be people's take on Nikon X-Pro3.

But many do not realise the Fujifilm actually did that: added totally nonessential finish as an excuse to raise the asking price, on what is, in essence, LESS and more complicated than found in their other cameras that cost less and are easier to use.

With E-M5Mk3, though, Olympus did the opposite; they created a new category of a camera, for those users that appreciate image taking power in the lightest package possible. I like this approach better because the goal and execution are excellent, and down to earth.

Well imagine this. Fuji has several camera models and they also offer a small light model. that is current, modern- also it's less than $900 USD

Also lacks weather sealing and IBIS. Add those to it and what’s the new size, weight and price?

That is true. It's all tradeoffs. You gain in turn the advantages the bigger sensor brings. And save also $400 USD. Point is- there are several valid markets here. The person I am replying to is criticizing Fuji film as if they had done nothing.

Whether the EM5.3 brings something unique to the table - or not- is besides the point. Thats' why I said this doesn't mean the Em5.3 is bad or anything, not sure why you are so defensive.

and doesn't use years old sensor technology, but the same as the flagships in their line up - XT3 and Xpro3.

BSI has been in APS-C since 2014. “Years old sensor technology” lol

The sensor is 26MP BSI and uses copper interconnect. It's way newer than m43rds sensors

A distinction without a difference.

Oh no no, there's a difference. The 26 MP is not as old.  The X-T3 was announced just last year, and it brings the big benefit of reduced rolling shutter. In exchange how long has the 20 MP been around? I don't think it's that old. Then we have the 16 MP sensor still around which has been like ages.

This doesn't mean the Em5.3 is bad or anything. Just putting in perspective what Fuji has done.

Fuji has a nice lineup but there is nothing as compact as the EM5mkIII with IBIS and weather sealing at ANY price.

Ironically an Xpro3 with the smaller primes in size and weights competes with an EM5MKiii because the weather sealed primes that are small don't exist.

This implies one is limited to small primes. The EM5mkIII with 14-150 is a weather sealed package ($1500) Fuji can’t match. There are more WR mFT primes and zooms than X-system offers.

Certainly but when you go with the bigger lenses the package is no longer as small (which is why they should re-issue the small primes).

Fuji has the lenses. What it doesn't have is the multi-redundant focal length copies of Olympus and Panasonic that go from OK lenses to the superb.

It would be great if Olympus re-issued the lenses.

Agree 100%

They should have issued the 45mm and maybe the 17mm or 25mm? I think just two would have gone a long way here.

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nevada5
nevada5 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,413
Quality plus price break! Yes!
4

A good quality polycarbonate and it's cheaper than the less desirable metallic material.  A win for Olympus!

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