First full frame advise?

Started 2 months ago | Discussions
DarbinCo Forum Member • Posts: 98
First full frame advise?

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife.  Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level? Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

 DarbinCo's gear list:DarbinCo's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Samyang 7.5mm F3.5 Fisheye Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm F1.8 +2 more
Olympus E-M1 Sony a7R II
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mostlyboringphotog Veteran Member • Posts: 8,943
Re: First full frame advise?

DarbinCo wrote:

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife. Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level? Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

Enjoy but remember "sunny 16" rule?

You do need to stop down to get the working DOF with FF while everything looked kinda sharp with f/4 with 4/3rd.

Good luck

 mostlyboringphotog's gear list:mostlyboringphotog's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Nikon 1 J5 Pentax 645Z
mattjp1
mattjp1 Regular Member • Posts: 247
Re: First full frame advise?

DarbinCo wrote:

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife. Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level? Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

What are you expecting from a full frame? If mainly for landscape, I believe a set of filter will help better with dynamic range than the size of the sensor. If you're doing astro or low light though, that could be worth upgrading to full-frame.

My first camera was an Oly EM-10 and it was fantastic. I then moved to Nikon D750 - Image quality wise certainly a step up but I wasn't taking it with me enough due to the large size. Finally settled on Sony a7rii and it's been great. Just sharing in case you decide to make the move - perhaps you don't want to do the same "mistake".

The a7rii is hard to beat for landscape. Can be had for cheap now (I paid USD1K for mine with 20k actuations). Lenses wise, you can still adapt some lightweight manual primes (Voigtlander etc..) that will give you great images and you will be able to crop (difficult on the Oly). 42 MP gives also a beautiful rendering to my taste (almost 3D ish) if that is your thing.

blue_skies
blue_skies Forum Pro • Posts: 11,871
Re: First full frame advise?
3

DarbinCo wrote:

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife.

(Daytime) landscape and wildlife?

Keep what you have - the size (and cost) of longer FL lenses for FF will not pay off in image quality per se.

Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

If resolution is your thing, then by all means, the A7R II is a great camera.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level?

In resolution - sure.

In sharpness - not so sure.

In overall image (color, DR) - probably similar (daytime curves)

Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

4/3rds and FF are two vastly different formats. Where they overlap (same exposure), the 4/3rds will give you deeper DOF. If you stop down the FF to match the DOF, the DR/exposure will be more or less similar (equivalent exposure).

For (daytime) landscape, 4/3rds has sufficient DR to yield decent images.

FF can give you better DR in shadows (at cost of DOF), less noise if shoot at dusk or dawn (blue hour), wider wide angle (you are at 24mm effectively), and higher resolution if you print large.

That said, the A7R II is still a 'benchmark' camera, even today, especially for landscapes.

Will it be a complete new experience? No, not with your experience.

Will you take it into different directions? With a few more lenses, you very well may.

If your budget allows, consider lens options. Then consider whether or not the purchase is worthwhile. For (daytime) landscapes only it may, but not as dramatic as it would in other applications (e.g. a fast lens).

Wildlife - you'd want a long lens and a A9/A7R IV imho, which is mo' money.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

 blue_skies's gear list:blue_skies's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a6000 Sony a5100 Sony a7 II Sony a7R II +37 more
mattjp1
mattjp1 Regular Member • Posts: 247
Re: First full frame advise?

Coming from Olympus, I agree with this. I rarely shoot long but if you do widelife be ready to bear the cost of long lenses for FF! (to match your 150mm, you will need a 300mm etc...).

OP DarbinCo Forum Member • Posts: 98
Re: First full frame advise?

mostlyboringphotog wrote:

DarbinCo wrote:

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife. Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level? Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

Enjoy but remember "sunny 16" rule?

You do need to stop down to get the working DOF with FF while everything looked kinda sharp with f/4 with 4/3rd.

Good luck

Shortly after receiving my 300 f4 I found it likes to be stopped down a little for sharpness. Great lens though, far better than the 2 copies of the PL 100-400 I had.

 DarbinCo's gear list:DarbinCo's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Samyang 7.5mm F3.5 Fisheye Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm F1.8 +2 more
OP DarbinCo Forum Member • Posts: 98
Re: First full frame advise?

mattjp1 wrote:

DarbinCo wrote:

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife. Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level? Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

What are you expecting from a full frame? If mainly for landscape, I believe a set of filter will help better with dynamic range than the size of the sensor. If you're doing astro or low light though, that could be worth upgrading to full-frame.

My first camera was an Oly EM-10 and it was fantastic. I then moved to Nikon D750 - Image quality wise certainly a step up but I wasn't taking it with me enough due to the large size. Finally settled on Sony a7rii and it's been great. Just sharing in case you decide to make the move - perhaps you don't want to do the same "mistake".

The a7rii is hard to beat for landscape. Can be had for cheap now (I paid USD1K for mine with 20k actuations). Lenses wise, you can still adapt some lightweight manual primes (Voigtlander etc..) that will give you great images and you will be able to crop (difficult on the Oly). 42 MP gives also a beautiful rendering to my taste (almost 3D ish) if that is your thing.

Astro photography has always intrigued me. Well, anything astro, Ive got a 10" SC telescope in my shop! Been a while since I broke it out though. As you know, astro is difficult at best with M4/3

Yes in a way, I feel my landscapes now just seem flat. Friends say it looks as if you could walk into it but I look at the image and say..  meh...

 DarbinCo's gear list:DarbinCo's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Samyang 7.5mm F3.5 Fisheye Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm F1.8 +2 more
OP DarbinCo Forum Member • Posts: 98
Re: First full frame advise?

blue_skies wrote:

DarbinCo wrote:

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife.

(Daytime) landscape and wildlife?

Yes, but wouldnt mind doing more sunrise and sunsets. I love a good sunset if I can get in the right location.

Keep what you have - the size (and cost) of longer FL lenses for FF will not pay off in image quality per se.

Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

If resolution is your thing, then by all means, the A7R II is a great camera.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level?

In resolution - sure.

In sharpness - not so sure.

In overall image (color, DR) - probably similar (daytime curves)

Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

4/3rds and FF are two vastly different formats. Where they overlap (same exposure), the 4/3rds will give you deeper DOF. If you stop down the FF to match the DOF, the DR/exposure will be more or less similar (equivalent exposure).

For (daytime) landscape, 4/3rds has sufficient DR to yield decent images.

FF can give you better DR in shadows (at cost of DOF), less noise if shoot at dusk or dawn (blue hour), wider wide angle (you are at 24mm effectively), and higher resolution if you print large.

That said, the A7R II is still a 'benchmark' camera, even today, especially for landscapes.

Will it be a complete new experience? No, not with your experience.

Will you take it into different directions? With a few more lenses, you very well may.

If your budget allows, consider lens options. Then consider whether or not the purchase is worthwhile. For (daytime) landscapes only it may, but not as dramatic as it would in other applications (e.g. a fast lens).

Thats the struggle right now, will it be worth while. My next step is to rent one for a week and see how I like it. Or.. maybe like mentioned above, I invest in some filters and see if they can change what I get out of the Oly.

Wildlife - you'd want a long lens and a A9/A7R IV imho, which is mo' money.

I would still run the Olympus for wildlife. It does a pretty good job even with my skills! LOL

 DarbinCo's gear list:DarbinCo's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Samyang 7.5mm F3.5 Fisheye Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm F1.8 +2 more
OP DarbinCo Forum Member • Posts: 98
Re: First full frame advise?

mattjp1 wrote:

Coming from Olympus, I agree with this. I rarely shoot long but if you do widelife be ready to bear the cost of long lenses for FF! (to match your 150mm, you will need a 300mm etc...).

Im not going to switch formats, just wondering if FF will add anything to my landscapes.

I would still use the Olympus for wildlife. The FF long lenses are very expensive and I wont mortgage the house for them.

 DarbinCo's gear list:DarbinCo's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Samyang 7.5mm F3.5 Fisheye Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm F1.8 +2 more
BruceRH Senior Member • Posts: 1,873
Re: First full frame advise?

I picked up a used A7Rii a year ago and really enjoy it with primes. My Olympus bodies get the majority of the use mainly because of size and reach. For the Sony I really enjoy my Loxia 21mm and the Voigtlander 40, 15, and 10, all of which have great sun stars. I also love Voigtlander for MFT for the same reason. You will find that good glass really makes the Sony images shine and I think you will enjoy the A7Rii for landscape. I picked up the 24-105 and 70-300 zooms as well but that is it for now. I tend to buy used and a 100-400 probably can’t be ruled out if I can find a great deal.

Take a look at the lights under the church steeple

 BruceRH's gear list:BruceRH's gear list
Sony RX100 III Olympus Tough TG-4 Olympus PEN-F Olympus E-M1 II Sony a7R II +25 more
mattjp1
mattjp1 Regular Member • Posts: 247
Re: First full frame advise?

DarbinCo wrote:

mattjp1 wrote:

DarbinCo wrote:

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife. Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level? Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

What are you expecting from a full frame? If mainly for landscape, I believe a set of filter will help better with dynamic range than the size of the sensor. If you're doing astro or low light though, that could be worth upgrading to full-frame.

My first camera was an Oly EM-10 and it was fantastic. I then moved to Nikon D750 - Image quality wise certainly a step up but I wasn't taking it with me enough due to the large size. Finally settled on Sony a7rii and it's been great. Just sharing in case you decide to make the move - perhaps you don't want to do the same "mistake".

The a7rii is hard to beat for landscape. Can be had for cheap now (I paid USD1K for mine with 20k actuations). Lenses wise, you can still adapt some lightweight manual primes (Voigtlander etc..) that will give you great images and you will be able to crop (difficult on the Oly). 42 MP gives also a beautiful rendering to my taste (almost 3D ish) if that is your thing.

Astro photography has always intrigued me. Well, anything astro, Ive got a 10" SC telescope in my shop! Been a while since I broke it out though. As you know, astro is difficult at best with M4/3

Yes in a way, I feel my landscapes now just seem flat. Friends say it looks as if you could walk into it but I look at the image and say.. meh...

Astro is exciting and rewarding! For the telescope though, you will need some serious tracker to get good results but if you have the budget, by any means it's a lot of fun.

If I may suggest you to have a look at this Facebook group which I joined a few years ago: Olympus OM-D - Astrophotography https://www.facebook.com/groups/1705275456416834/

There are some serious astro photographers there using Oly's OMD, both for milky way and also deep sky images. Could give you a good idea of what to expect.

OP DarbinCo Forum Member • Posts: 98
Re: First full frame advise?

BruceRH wrote:

I picked up a used A7Rii a year ago and really enjoy it with primes. My Olympus bodies get the majority of the use mainly because of size and reach. For the Sony I really enjoy my Loxia 21mm and the Voigtlander 40, 15, and 10, all of which have great sun stars. I also love Voigtlander for MFT for the same reason. You will find that good glass really makes the Sony images shine and I think you will enjoy the A7Rii for landscape. I picked up the 24-105 and 70-300 zooms as well but that is it for now. I tend to buy used and a 100-400 probably can’t be ruled out if I can find a great deal.

Take a look at the lights under the church steeple

Very cool image.

This is one of my latest from my Oly.

on edit, I should have posted it from my Mac as it looks much better than from my ipad.

 DarbinCo's gear list:DarbinCo's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Samyang 7.5mm F3.5 Fisheye Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm F1.8 +2 more
BruceRH Senior Member • Posts: 1,873
Re: First full frame advise?

Thanks!

 BruceRH's gear list:BruceRH's gear list
Sony RX100 III Olympus Tough TG-4 Olympus PEN-F Olympus E-M1 II Sony a7R II +25 more
blue_skies
blue_skies Forum Pro • Posts: 11,871
Re: First full frame advise?

DarbinCo wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

DarbinCo wrote:

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife.

(Daytime) landscape and wildlife?

Yes, but wouldnt mind doing more sunrise and sunsets. I love a good sunset if I can get in the right location.

I found sunrise and sunsets to improve dramatically when going from APS-C to FF.

I also like to use shallower DOF on FF - for better DR, colors, etc. For infinity focus on (dark) landscapes the loss of DOF is not an issue.

Keep what you have - the size (and cost) of longer FL lenses for FF will not pay off in image quality per se.

Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

If resolution is your thing, then by all means, the A7R II is a great camera.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level?

In resolution - sure.

In sharpness - not so sure.

In overall image (color, DR) - probably similar (daytime curves)

Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

4/3rds and FF are two vastly different formats. Where they overlap (same exposure), the 4/3rds will give you deeper DOF. If you stop down the FF to match the DOF, the DR/exposure will be more or less similar (equivalent exposure).

For (daytime) landscape, 4/3rds has sufficient DR to yield decent images.

FF can give you better DR in shadows (at cost of DOF), less noise if shoot at dusk or dawn (blue hour), wider wide angle (you are at 24mm effectively), and higher resolution if you print large.

That said, the A7R II is still a 'benchmark' camera, even today, especially for landscapes.

Will it be a complete new experience? No, not with your experience.

Will you take it into different directions? With a few more lenses, you very well may.

If your budget allows, consider lens options. Then consider whether or not the purchase is worthwhile. For (daytime) landscapes only it may, but not as dramatic as it would in other applications (e.g. a fast lens).

Thats the struggle right now, will it be worth while. My next step is to rent one for a week and see how I like it. Or.. maybe like mentioned above, I invest in some filters and see if they can change what I get out of the Oly.

Yeah, renting and hands on experience is best.

Wide-angle shots, shallow DOF portraits, and low light scenery are imho most improved when going to FF. I also have had a few ops where the added resolution helped.

'Sunny sixteen' daytime shots have sufficient sharpness and DR in the smaller sensor formats just the same.

If you are tripod based currently, FF can remove the requirement for a tripod, something else to consider.

The gear will be larger and heavier - you most likely will want to carry only one or two lenses in the field.

If you compare results, don't pixel peep - process both side-by-side images, and view them at your normal full-frame viewing setup. It will allow for a more fair comparison.

Wildlife - you'd want a long lens and a A9/A7R IV imho, which is mo' money.

I would still run the Olympus for wildlife. It does a pretty good job even with my skills! LOL

Yeah, 300mm on m43 ~= 600mm on FF, which most of us don't even have.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

 blue_skies's gear list:blue_skies's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a6000 Sony a5100 Sony a7 II Sony a7R II +37 more
EarthQuake Senior Member • Posts: 2,848
Re: First full frame advise?
1

DarbinCo wrote:

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife. Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level? Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

I used an EM1 since it was released (and the EM5 before that), but just swapped all my M43 gear for an A7 III and some FE lenses. I would say there are a few things that will be significantly different, how important they are is another matter:

Dynamic range at ISO 100 is significantly better. So if you're shooting landscapes, or anything with a lot of contrast, you'll likely appreciate the DR.

High ISO noise is a lot better. DOF is two stops narrower. You're trading one for the other here. Less noise, less in focus.

Resolution will obviously be quite a bit higher too.

As others have mentioned, some of these can fight against one another. If you tend to shoot landscapes at F4 on M43, you'll want to use F8 on FF. If you don't have enough light and don't have a tripod, you may need to bump up the ISO.

For instance, if you need to use F4 1/100 ISO 200 on M43, you'll need to use F8 1/100 ISO 800 on FF. At that point the noise and dynamic range advantage for FF goes right out the window.

However, if you can stay at ISO 100 on the A7, you will be impressed with the files. The good news is that landscapes don't tend to move around so much, so you can often use a relatively slow shutter speed and keep the ISO low. For the cases where lots of DR is necessary, you'll probably have a decent amount of light to work with. So in practice, the cases where you have to bump up ISO to match M43 DOF may not be all that common for landscape work. But it depends on exactly what, when, and where you're shooting.

The flip side is that if you want to do long exposures, FF makes it easier. Let's say you want a 3 second exposure to smooth out a waterfall. You'll be able to use ISO 100 (rather than 200 on EM1), and use F16 instead without destroying the sharpness of the image (due to diffraction). So if you're doing these kinds of shots, maybe you can skip the ND, or use a less dense ND filter.

Outside of image quality, the usability of the Mark II A7 bodies leaves a lot to be desired. They're generally clunky to use, but I suppose this isn't that big of a deal if you're only shooting landscapes. I put the A7* II series a little behind the original EM1 as far as general usability / operational speed goes, but the III series is noticeably ahead in my mind. In short MK1 = half-baked beta products, MK2 = usable but not exactly pleasant, MK3 = really quite good in nearly all aspects.

Unless you plan to print very, very large, I would consider the A7 III instead, because it has many improvements over the II series bodies, like the bigger battery, more comfortable grip, focus joystick, better AF, and a lot of smaller quality of life improvements. For instance, being able to review images or use the menu while writing to the card, face detection / eye AF that actually works, zooming in to your focus point (rather than the center of the image) in review mode, the EVF sensor automatically turning off when the screen is tilted (on II bodies this is very annoying when shooting waist level or on tripod as the screen constantly cuts out if it gets anywhere near your body) and probably a dozen more things I am forgetting that make a difference when they add up.

All that said, spending less on the body and more on lenses is generally a sensible plan.

fferreres Veteran Member • Posts: 3,085
Re: First full frame advise?

DarbinCo wrote:

mattjp1 wrote:

Coming from Olympus, I agree with this. I rarely shoot long but if you do widelife be ready to bear the cost of long lenses for FF! (to match your 150mm, you will need a 300mm etc...).

Im not going to switch formats, just wondering if FF will add anything to my landscapes.

I would still use the Olympus for wildlife. The FF long lenses are very expensive and I wont mortgage the house for them.

I know not a single person that used M43 for landscape photographs, then started using an R with a good lens, and then decided to go back to M43 for that. Wildlife is another thing. You really need to get very honest good advise, and a zoom may not be the best choice. Maybe a 21mm and 50mm would suffice, many of the high end Codina VL are light and adored and revered. The 100-400 GM is also loved, or maybe I love some photographers that bring hyperrealistic amazing landscapes with that one.

rashid7
rashid7 Veteran Member • Posts: 4,098
Re: First full frame advise?

Hi... i think u r on to a good idea.  (But hang onto your Oly kit!)

I've owned a dozen m4/3 bodies, and 20 lenses, which i've liked very much.  (still have 3 + 11)

I bought the 7rii a year ago, and have the riii now.  They are great in many ways, but not for UI and ergo.  The iii has added a joy stick, my menu, big battery, and quick review zoom (the ii is infuriatingly slow to zoom into/review a photo) but still trails what u r used to.  Yet for rez and low light (DR&ISO) they are a revelation.  Beware, they take getting used to.  Shallow DoF is more a pain than joy.

The advent (finally!) of good 3rd party lenses is what convinced me to buy into Sony.  I love my Tam 28-75!  If i hadn't already bought a Sony 16-35f4, I'd get the Tam 17-28!  And a 70-180 is on the way.  All F2.8.  All compact and affordable.  And the first two are truly excellent lenses in every way.

Now we have some nice/small/affordable primes from Samyang, Sigma, and Tamron.  I have the sony 28f2 & 50f1.8, which are also good value&size options.

Good luck!

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Keep it fun!

Dirk W Veteran Member • Posts: 3,303
Re: First full frame advise?

DarbinCo wrote:

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife. Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level? Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

Yes it will. The awesome ff. 42mp sensor will give you sharpness and detail that you never experienced before. Paired with a good lens, e.g. the Tamron 28-75, you will find razor sharp landscape details, especially things that can normally get quite mushy, such as grass, leafs etc.

 Dirk W's gear list:Dirk W's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Fujifilm FinePix Real 3D W3 Sony Alpha NEX-3N Sony a7R II Sony a6500 +7 more
sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 15,506
Re: First full frame advise?
1

DarbinCo wrote:

mattjp1 wrote:

Coming from Olympus, I agree with this. I rarely shoot long but if you do widelife be ready to bear the cost of long lenses for FF! (to match your 150mm, you will need a 300mm etc...).

Im not going to switch formats, just wondering if FF will add anything to my landscapes.

I would still use the Olympus for wildlife. The FF long lenses are very expensive and I wont mortgage the house for them.

In that case, an A7R2 is a killer app. You can probably make do with nothing more than an A7R2 and the Tamron 17-28 2.8.

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Sometimes I take pictures with my gear- https://www.flickr.com/photos/41601371@N00/

 sportyaccordy's gear list:sportyaccordy's gear list
NEX-5T Sony a7R II Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EF 24-105mm F4L IS II USM Canon 70-200 F2.8L III +3 more
101Colors
101Colors Regular Member • Posts: 222
Re: First full frame advise?
1

DarbinCo wrote:

Background.
The last full frame camera I owned was a Minolta 35mm film camera way back in the early 90's. I was out of it for a long time then purchased a 4/3rds Oly E-510 not even knowing what 4/3rds was. I simply liked how the camera handled and the lens options were good at the time. I shot it off and on for many years. I upgraded to the EM1 about 5 years ago after a trip to Yellowstone where I found the images I came home with didnt exactly meet my standards. This kinda revived my ambitions in photography. I have since upgraded MK-II about 2 years ago now. I currently have the 12-40, 40-150 and 300 pro lenses. My two interests are landscape and wildlife. Overall, I am happy with it but I do feel the landscape side of my hobby may benefit from a full frame set up.

I am not one that needs the latest and greatest, budget wont swing that anyways. Ive seen the Sony A7R II has dropped in price enough to make it appealing, my thought was to spend a bit less on the body and more on the glass. I would probably pick up a zoom to start and then a prime and keep it at that for the landscape use.

Is the A7RII going to take my landscapes to a new level? Am I going in the right direction here or should I consider something else. Keep in mind that my current Olympus will continue to be my go to wildlife/general use camera (nothing too awful serious) so there no need to enter that into the equation. I dont feel a need to spend that kinda cash to replace what I'm currently using. I dont sell images, I just like to hang a few on the wall.

Thanks

Darb

After some thought, I decided to reply because I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago.  I wanted better but was rather conflicted as to what direction to take.  Finally, I acted and bought used FF sony....

One thing I had not really planned on was the cost associated with FF glass.  Quality glass that is.   And the GAS associated with the newer glass that has been coming out seemingly ever more often .!  If you are subject to being affected with that, you will have GAS in the Sony world.

That said, for a non pro,( myself included)  an A7R2 would be a good camera for you even without the expensive glass.  Compromises must be made to control cost, but  with selective buying, you can still get glass that will more than suit your needs.

I had an A7 mark 2 ( non R) and two things really bugged me about it -  the battery life and low light focusing.  I am NOT sure, but I think the R2 would be similar in that regard.

But, will it take you to your landscapes to a new level ?  Possibly, but here's the thing.  As mentioned above, Sony rolls out new equipment often, which means fairly hefty discounting after a couple of years, so if the R2 doesn't cut it for you, maybe the next generation will - if you're willing to stay just behind the curve so to speak.

For landscapes,  the R2 with 20 - 35mm glass would be a great combination, and buying on the used marketplace will save you some dough.  The Batis 25mm is going for $600-700 USD on the used market now..  Nice lens for landscape..

Good luck...

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My other gear ::
Olympus G.Zuiko 50mm ƒ 1.4 (silver nose)
Several other cheap FE lenses

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Sony a7R III Zeiss Batis 25mm F2
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