iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii Locked

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DeathArrow Senior Member • Posts: 2,313
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

john Clinch wrote:

The answer is of course that camera manafactureres don't have the software. How long will we put up with that?

No. The answer is that you would need a very high frame rate. And cameras can't do that. Not with mechanical shutters. Maybe when global shutters will exist.

Software isn't something extremely hard to do. (I am a software engineer)

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New Day Rising
New Day Rising Senior Member • Posts: 3,272
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Lee Jay wrote:

New Day Rising wrote:

Lee Jay wrote:

New Day Rising wrote:

Lee Jay wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

sluggy_warrior wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

How did the 1DXii do in the video in the shots with a subject in front of a window? Very poorly, it blew everything in the background out while the iPhone nailed it. The 1DX couldn’t even handle the following outdoor shots in the video with the guy under the tree, it blew out the sky while again, the iPhone nailed it. The iPhone has superior IQ to a $5500 full frame camera with a quality $2000 lens which is very impressive. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. With the iPhones Night Mode and an aftermarket lens, I wouldn’t assume the iPhone won’t even get a shot in the scenario you listed above.

What is your definition of IQ?

I hate to repeat myself here, but the only advantage a phone has is convenience. The software is smart enough to make the mediocre image looks decent, but there's nothing it can do that post-processing the RAW can't. A desktop software is much more powerful and have no real-time constraint.

The smartphone makes it easy for its user. The camera leaves the control and creativity to the photographer. If the photographer doesn't know how to shoot and process a backlit scene, s/he probably should just switch to using the smartphone if s/he doesn't want to invest time into learning/mastering her/his tool.

Sorry to everyone else, I'm bored at lunch and feel like feeding the trolls. Expecting FluidKnowledge and Brick Wall to jump in soon

My definition of IQ is reading a scene and delivering a quality photo and thats where the iPhone has the advantage.

That's the definition of good auto-modes, not the definition of good image quality.

Things like Smart HDR, Deep Fusion and Night Mode. We have all sat there with a DSLR or mirrorless fussing with our settings in a heavily backlit scene like the window shots in that video.

No, I just use a little pop of fill-flash.

The iPhone nails it with no fussing, point and shoot, thats superior IQ.

No, that's superior convenience. Maybe you thought IQ stood for something other than image quality?

The shot with the guy in front of the tree came out better on the iPhone too. While the camera is just shooing one image, the iPhone has already taken several images before you have even taken the shot and then takes several more, analyzes and combines them all and gives you the best shot within a second. Thats superior IQ and a camera can not even come close to matching that tech.

One thing I hate about shooting with cell phones is that it's just so darned slow. I can often get several shots at several different focal lengths and framing while the person next to me is unlocking their phone, and that's starting with a camera that's off.

Depending on what I've been doing with the phone previously (ie, what apps have been running) unlocking the phone, opening the camera app and being ready to take a photo takes between 3 and 5 seconds.

I fail to see the problem or how you are taking several photos at different focal lengths in that time (even if you aren't bothering about composition).

From camera off to several shots taken at different focal lengths and framing can be 1-2 seconds.

1-2 seconds for several shots at different focal lengths and different framing? I don't believe you.

It's still true.

I still don't believe you.

Even if it is true, that is the very definition of 'snapshots'. Not even any pretence of trying to compose.

False.

I don't believe you.

It often

"often"? I don't believe you.

Hundreds of times a year.

I don't believe you.

takes the person next to me 30 seconds to a minute to get one shot on a cell phone.

There is nothing inherent to modern smartphone camera technology that would require 30 seconds just to turn on the phone, open the camera app and be ready to shoot. Perhaps they are bothering to take time over their composition. Some people do that.

No, they are fiddling with the phone trying to get it to work. Bad ergonomics, pinch zoom and touch screens are slow.

I don't believe you. No reasonably modern touch screen is that slow. Phones don't have got ergonomics, but those ergonomics don't really slow you down.

You haven't got a clue what they are actually doing unless you are standing right behind them looking over their shoulder. I hope you aren't doing anything like that, Lee. That would be creepy.

This can be a problem if they're between me and what I want to shoot and I have to stand there waiting for them to move

You have to wait for 30 seconds!!!!

For each person in front of me at each display in each museum.

Appalling.

and especially if there's a line of them all doing the same thing.

Just be grateful they are not using a 'proper' camera and taking time to set up the shot, compose, make exposure adjustments, check focus. And just imagine if they were setting up an ILC on a tripod!! The horror!!!

And yet, I can do all that in a second or two, excluding the tripod.

I don't believe you.

I've had this happen many times especially at museums.

Appalling. Imagine people spending 30 seconds at a museum exhibit.

I once went to 11 museums on one trip. One of them was housed in four enormous hangers.

Sounds horrendous. Unless the trip was at least 5 or 6 days of doing nothing much other than those museums.

I thought all museum exhibits had a strict 10 second viewing time. How else are people supposed to get through an entire museum in less than an hour? It's almost like people are taking time to actually look at the exhibits, appreciate what is being presented there.

I suppose now you're going to tell us something bizarre, like your goal is to get through the museum as quickly as possible, photographing everything in 5 seconds or less so you can look properly at the exhibits in photos when you're back home. I hope not. That would be weird.

Well, if you have 5 hours to spend at a museum that has four huge buildings and thousands of individual exhibits, that approach is practical.

That really does sound horrendous. How could you possibly appreciate it?

You're not actually speeding through so you can "experience the exhibits properly" through the photos back at home, are you?

Don't those museums have catalogues you can buy? Same end result for lower cost and effort.

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Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 26,463
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

So how does the iPhone 11 do shooting birds in flight, or cars at a racetrack as compared to the 1DXii?

DeathArrow Senior Member • Posts: 2,313
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Dexter75 wrote:

Lee Jay wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

I get my photos right when I shoot them so I don’t need to spend a bunch of time in post,

Not always possible. How, exactly, would you use fill-light on the moon or the sun's corona?

Yes, it’s always possible for me. I don’t shoot the moon. I get paid to shoot fashion and glamour work. I control my own light in the studio and I know what I’m doing when I shoot portraits in natural light.

And yet someone with an iPhone will get superior results if what you wrote in first post is true. So it means you are using improper tools for the job and should get an iPhone while you still have paying customers left.

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New Day Rising
New Day Rising Senior Member • Posts: 3,272
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Mark B. wrote:

So how does the iPhone 11 do shooting birds in flight, or cars at a racetrack as compared to the 1DXii?

How does the 1DXii do making phone calls, sending e-mail and text messages, navigating with GPS, surfing the net, doing your banking, reading DPR and the dozens of other things the iPhone can do?

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Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 26,463
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

New Day Rising wrote:

Mark B. wrote:

So how does the iPhone 11 do shooting birds in flight, or cars at a racetrack as compared to the 1DXii?

How does the 1DXii do making phone calls, sending e-mail and text messages, navigating with GPS, surfing the net, doing your banking, reading DPR and the dozens of other things the iPhone can do?

You missed the point.

DeathArrow Senior Member • Posts: 2,313
Re: Put aside (iPhone HATE), Computational Photography can benefit camera industry

007peter wrote:

Dexter75 wrote: The most surprising thing here to me was at the 4 minute mark. The iPhone nails the tricky lighting situations where the 1DX struggles and blows out the backgrounds and sky. It’s those things like smart HDR, Night Mode, and now Deep Fusion, that are making these smartphone cameras really good these days and in some cases, even better than high end cameras.

https://youtu.be/6irorkXCLyw

It is Refreshing to see there is an old person here with an OPEN MIND about computational photography that is changing the world. Most old traditionalist (too old to accept change) trash anything non-traditional:

  • they hate Auto-Focus, prefer MF
  • they hate Zoom, prefer Prime Only Snobs
  • they hate Auto-Expsoure Green Mode, only shoot M
  • they hate Digital camera @first, film hold out until 2006
  • they hate JPEG, only shoot RAW
  • they hate VIDEO,
  • now they hate Iphone and its computational photography
  • they hate.....and hate....and hate

If one can put aside their Iphone Hatred temporarily. There is a lot of benefits in implementing Computational Photography inside a traditional camera, particularly for Exposure benefits.

The Verge video here explain how Iphone 11 correct for Expsoure by:

You would get much better results using flash. Also to combine many shots without looking ugly or fake, you would need a very fast frame rate and a global shutter.

Camera are already using computational photography techniques, just nut in the way you think. Sony's real time AF and eye AF is using machine learning techniques, commonly known as "AI".

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DeathArrow Senior Member • Posts: 2,313
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

New Day Rising wrote:

I will never understand why so many members here - people who supposedly care about photography - get so bent out of shape by the idea that the masses are able to use small, convenient, multi purpose devices to take good photos in most situations. Photos that make them feel happy and satisfied.

I don't understand why so many people here get totally aggrieved that the masses do not pixel peep, do not make giant prints, do not feel any desire to take photos that require 400mm f/2.8 lenses. Therefore the masses don't see the greater merit of those photos that required tens of thousands of dollars worth of gear,and years of experience and hours of post processing. The masses are happy with their own photos and some members hate that happiness.

I don't understand it.

Actually, I do understand it, and find it all a bit pathetic.

I don't give 2 cents about what the masses are doing and what they prefer. For a photographer a camera is a much better tool.

I consider a smartphone good for snapshots, when you are in vacation with friends and family and you don't care about image quality, having wide or long focal lengths or catching moving subjects.

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New Day Rising
New Day Rising Senior Member • Posts: 3,272
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Mark B. wrote:

New Day Rising wrote:

Mark B. wrote:

So how does the iPhone 11 do shooting birds in flight, or cars at a racetrack as compared to the 1DXii?

How does the 1DXii do making phone calls, sending e-mail and text messages, navigating with GPS, surfing the net, doing your banking, reading DPR and the dozens of other things the iPhone can do?

You missed the point.

Actually I didn't.

As I said in posts to Lee Jay, nobody is seriously suggesting a camera like the 1DXii doesn't have advantages over a phone in certain situations. Nobody would pay thousands and thousands of dollars for one if it didn't. Similarly, nobody is seriously suggesting that a phone does not have advantages over a DSLR in certain situations.

If you are going to cherry pick the advantages of one, you might as well cherry pick the advantages of the other.

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New Day Rising
New Day Rising Senior Member • Posts: 3,272
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

DeathArrow wrote:

New Day Rising wrote:

I will never understand why so many members here - people who supposedly care about photography - get so bent out of shape by the idea that the masses are able to use small, convenient, multi purpose devices to take good photos in most situations. Photos that make them feel happy and satisfied.

I don't understand why so many people here get totally aggrieved that the masses do not pixel peep, do not make giant prints, do not feel any desire to take photos that require 400mm f/2.8 lenses. Therefore the masses don't see the greater merit of those photos that required tens of thousands of dollars worth of gear,and years of experience and hours of post processing. The masses are happy with their own photos and some members hate that happiness.

I don't understand it.

Actually, I do understand it, and find it all a bit pathetic.

I don't give 2 cents about what the masses are doing and what they prefer. For a photographer a camera is a much better tool.

Of course it is. Nobody is seriously doubting that. If you, like most of us here, are among the small proportion of people on the planet who are happy to put money and effort into having dedicated camera gear of course you are going to find the camera a better tool in many situations. If you didn't you would be pretty stupid to spend all that money and put up with the (relative) inconvenience, right?

I consider a smartphone good for snapshots, when you are in vacation with friends and family and you don't care about image quality, having wide or long focal lengths or catching moving subjects.

Sure. Doesn't change the fact that some people here get totally bent out of shape over other people being happy using phone cameras.

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markyboy81 Senior Member • Posts: 2,761
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

New Day Rising wrote:

Mark B. wrote:

So how does the iPhone 11 do shooting birds in flight, or cars at a racetrack as compared to the 1DXii?

How does the 1DXii do making phone calls, sending e-mail and text messages, navigating with GPS, surfing the net, doing your banking, reading DPR and the dozens of other things the iPhone can do?

Lol. It's almost like saying that people who use cameras don't have a phone with them as well.

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New Day Rising
New Day Rising Senior Member • Posts: 3,272
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

markyboy81 wrote:

New Day Rising wrote:

Mark B. wrote:

So how does the iPhone 11 do shooting birds in flight, or cars at a racetrack as compared to the 1DXii?

How does the 1DXii do making phone calls, sending e-mail and text messages, navigating with GPS, surfing the net, doing your banking, reading DPR and the dozens of other things the iPhone can do?

Lol. It's almost like saying that people who use cameras don't have a phone with them as well.

No, they probably do have a phone. At the same time, most people who have phones don't have 1DXiis and are more than likely perfectly fine with that.

The point is that criticising a piece of equipment for being something that it isn't is kind of meaningless, don't you think?

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PerL Forum Pro • Posts: 14,075
1DXII bad example but...

Dexter75 wrote:

These are really close, even in lower light which is crazy. Most trained photographers will be able to spot the iPhone shots because of the aggressive bokeh, not because the overall photo is inferior quality, but your average person would never be able to spot that. I think if he had edited the iPhone photos by increasing the aperture slider to more match the look of the bokeh in the 1DX, they would pretty indistinguishable. The bokeh in portrait mode looks too mushy and fake to me if the aperture is anything more than about f/4 in most shots. You really have to watch it and adjust accordingly.

The most surprising thing here to me was at the 4 minute mark. The iPhone nails the tricky lighting situations where the 1DX struggles and blows out the backgrounds and sky. It’s those things like smart HDR, Night Mode, and now Deep Fusion, that are making these smartphone cameras really good these days and in some cases, even better than high end cameras.

https://youtu.be/6irorkXCLyw

The 1DXII is not a particularly good example because it excels in areas the phones still cant touch, like shooting sports/wildlife with long teles. But a lot of other cameras are in trouble in such a comparison, especially if you use them only with slow kit lenses.

For instance, when I saw the new Nikon Z50 with the compact but slow 3.5-6.3 kit lens, I thought it might be a very nice travel camera. However, I have to think hard to find cases where an iPhone 11 pro wouldn't be equally good or better if I only used the kit lens of the Z50 (unless I want to make really large prints where the 20 mp sensor should beat the 12 mp sensor of the phone). The advantage of a real camera with a kit lens is that it is more ergonomic and much more pleasant to use, but how about the images? I am not so sure.
Beside the video above, you may want to check out the youtube video of Jared Pollins test of the iPhone, shooting a concert and printing out the results.

DeathArrow Senior Member • Posts: 2,313
Re: 1DXII bad example but...

PerL wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

These are really close, even in lower light which is crazy. Most trained photographers will be able to spot the iPhone shots because of the aggressive bokeh, not because the overall photo is inferior quality, but your average person would never be able to spot that. I think if he had edited the iPhone photos by increasing the aperture slider to more match the look of the bokeh in the 1DX, they would pretty indistinguishable. The bokeh in portrait mode looks too mushy and fake to me if the aperture is anything more than about f/4 in most shots. You really have to watch it and adjust accordingly.

The most surprising thing here to me was at the 4 minute mark. The iPhone nails the tricky lighting situations where the 1DX struggles and blows out the backgrounds and sky. It’s those things like smart HDR, Night Mode, and now Deep Fusion, that are making these smartphone cameras really good these days and in some cases, even better than high end cameras.

https://youtu.be/6irorkXCLyw

The 1DXII is not a particularly good example because it excels in areas the phones still cant touch, like shooting sports/wildlife with long teles. But a lot of other cameras are in trouble in such a comparison, especially if you use them only with slow kit lenses.

P30 vs MFT camera:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4381060

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tcg550 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,292
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

My Samsung Galaxy S8 and S9 are better than the iPhone and 1DXii because I don't own an iPhone or 1DXii.

RUcrAZ
RUcrAZ Veteran Member • Posts: 6,098
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

What is your "take" on the new Pixel 4? (I am debating between Pixel 4 and iPhone 11.) My main interest is their photo and video capabilities.

tcg550 Veteran Member • Posts: 9,292
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

RUcrAZ wrote:

What is your "take" on the new Pixel 4? (I am debating between Pixel 4 and iPhone 11.) My main interest is their photo and video capabilities.

My daughter just ordered the latest Pixel. I can't wait to see how it works.

I'm going to "take" it from her the next time she visits so I can play with it.

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