iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii Locked

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
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RUcrAZ
RUcrAZ Veteran Member • Posts: 6,142
Let's be "up with technology."

Kapil Kapre wrote:

Its a bit like complaining dump trucks don't have sun-roofs or in-built seat massagers or rear seat DVD players.

New cars don't have rear seat dvd players. They now have USB connections for smartphones. At least, mine does.

Tuloom Veteran Member • Posts: 3,505
Re: Let's be "up with technology."

RUcrAZ wrote:

Kapil Kapre wrote:

Its a bit like complaining dump trucks don't have sun-roofs or in-built seat massagers or rear seat DVD players.

New cars don't have rear seat dvd players. They now have USB connections for smartphones. At least, mine does.

The Dodge Dynasty was the first car to have USB ports.

stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 23,625
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Dexter75 wrote:

sluggy_warrior wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

How did the 1DXii do in the video in the shots with a subject in front of a window? Very poorly, it blew everything in the background out while the iPhone nailed it. The 1DX couldn’t even handle the following outdoor shots in the video with the guy under the tree, it blew out the sky while again, the iPhone nailed it. The iPhone has superior IQ to a $5500 full frame camera with a quality $2000 lens which is very impressive. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. With the iPhones Night Mode and an aftermarket lens, I wouldn’t assume the iPhone won’t even get a shot in the scenario you listed above.

What is your definition of IQ?

I hate to repeat myself here, but the only advantage a phone has is convenience. The software is smart enough to make the mediocre image looks decent, but there's nothing it can do that post-processing the RAW can't. A desktop software is much more powerful and have no real-time constraint.

The smartphone makes it easy for its user. The camera leaves the control and creativity to the photographer. If the photographer doesn't know how to shoot and process a backlit scene, s/he probably should just switch to using the smartphone if s/he doesn't want to invest time into learning/mastering her/his tool.

Sorry to everyone else, I'm bored at lunch and feel like feeding the trolls. Expecting FluidKnowledge and Brick Wall to jump in soon

My definition of IQ is reading a scene and delivering a quality photo and thats where the iPhone has the advantage.

You’re defining a word with itself.  What is a quality photo?  That is the question.

Things like Smart HDR, Deep Fusion and Night Mode. We have all sat there with a DSLR or mirrorless fussing with our settings in a heavily backlit scene like the window shots in that video. The iPhone nails it with no fussing, point and shoot, thats superior IQ.

Now you’re defining superior Image quality by the work you don’t have to do.  I can do the work and make better results than my iPhone. So this can’t be superior IQ either.

The shot with the guy in front of the tree came out better on the iPhone too. While the camera is just shooing one image, the iPhone has already taken several images before you have even taken the shot and then takes several more, analyzes and combines them all and gives you the best shot within a second. Thats superior IQ and a camera can not even come close to matching that tech.

Any camera can take multiple images and the photographer can process them to his liking And it’s very easy to make truly superior results. I think what you’re actually saying is that you don’t feel like tapping into the superior IQ of an ILC because you don’t feel like post processing.

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jayrandomer
jayrandomer Contributing Member • Posts: 963
That's not most people's definition of IQ

Dexter75 wrote:

My definition of IQ is reading a scene and delivering a quality photo and thats where the iPhone has the advantage. Things like Smart HDR, Deep Fusion and Night Mode. We have all sat there with a DSLR or mirrorless fussing with our settings in a heavily backlit scene like the window shots in that video. The iPhone nails it with no fussing, point and shoot, thats superior IQ. The shot with the guy in front of the tree came out better on the iPhone too. While the camera is just shooing one image, the iPhone has already taken several images before you have even taken the shot and then takes several more, analyzes and combines them all and gives you the best shot within a second. Thats superior IQ and a camera can not even come close to matching that tech.

Your definition of IQ steps back from the standard meaning of image quality and replaces it with "image quality assuming an unskilled user".  Using a non-standard meaning of a term will always find lots of people disagreeing with you, especially if you wait until the 3rd page to define what you're actually talking about.

Most other people will define IQ to be absolute image quality given a maximally skilled user.  The difference between the IQ of a skilled and unskilled user would generally be referred to as "ease of use".  If you wrote that the iPhone is much easier to use, resulting in higher IQ for unskilled users, I don't think you would have gotten more than a couple of responses and likely no disagreement.

I use a couple of generations old phone and DSLR and even for technology from 5 years ago that was the case.  The iPhone is easy enough for my kids to use (they are 3 and 5) and get passable pictures.  The DSLR is both too heavy and a bit too complicated for them to work without some help from me.  DSLRs haven't gotten easier to use (it seems) while considerable progress has been made on the iPhone, so that must be even more true today.  Ultimate IQ, however, for someone who knows how to use the camera, would likely still go the DSLR (it's definitely the case for my generation of phones and cameras).

The average user should buy an iPhone rather than a 1DXII (or the Nikon or Sony equivalents).  The dedicated cameras are expensive and have very specific purposes.  I'm a pretty dedicated enthusiast and even I have no desire or business owning a 1DXII.

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OP Dexter75 Senior Member • Posts: 2,893
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

stevo23 wrote:

Any camera can take multiple images and the photographer can process them to his liking And it’s very easy to make truly superior results. I think what you’re actually saying is that you don’t feel like tapping into the superior IQ of an ILC because you don’t feel like post processing.

Sure, you can do that if you want to spend an hour in post doing what the iPhone can do with smart HDR in a fraction of a second. I’ve been a pro photographer for 15 years, I spend plenty of time in post. No, my iPhone won’t replace my camera, especially for my studio work, but it’s plenty capable of most everything else. I will be using it for a few natural light portrait shoots coming up though.

The Davinator
The Davinator Forum Pro • Posts: 23,242
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Dexter75 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Any camera can take multiple images and the photographer can process them to his liking And it’s very easy to make truly superior results. I think what you’re actually saying is that you don’t feel like tapping into the superior IQ of an ILC because you don’t feel like post processing.

Sure, you can do that if you want to spend an hour in post doing what the iPhone can do with smart HDR in a fraction of a second. I’ve been a pro photographer for 15 years, I spend plenty of time in post. No, my iPhone won’t replace my camera, especially for my studio work, but it’s plenty capable of most everything else. I will be using it for a few natural light portrait shoots coming up though.

If you are spending an hour in post doing an HDR stack, you know nothing about being a photographer.  I do multi shot HDR with  Fuji 50R in less than a minute...with results that slaughter any phone.  Same with any DSLR

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Lee Jay Forum Pro • Posts: 55,392
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Dexter75 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Any camera can take multiple images and the photographer can process them to his liking And it’s very easy to make truly superior results. I think what you’re actually saying is that you don’t feel like tapping into the superior IQ of an ILC because you don’t feel like post processing.

Sure, you can do that if you want to spend an hour in post doing what the iPhone can do with smart HDR in a fraction of a second.

An hour?  Try a few seconds.  Control-H in Lightroom.

I’ve been a pro photographer for 15 years,

That's either a lie or you're one of the many pro photographers who has very little or no technical knowledge about cameras or camera technology.  I've met many such people.

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Lee Jay

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OP Dexter75 Senior Member • Posts: 2,893
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Lee Jay wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Any camera can take multiple images and the photographer can process them to his liking And it’s very easy to make truly superior results. I think what you’re actually saying is that you don’t feel like tapping into the superior IQ of an ILC because you don’t feel like post processing.

Sure, you can do that if you want to spend an hour in post doing what the iPhone can do with smart HDR in a fraction of a second.

An hour? Try a few seconds. Control-H in Lightroom.

I’ve been a pro photographer for 15 years,

That's either a lie or you're one of the many pro photographers who has very little or no technical knowledge about cameras or camera technology. I've met many such people.

I don’t use HDR in my workflow. I get my photos right when I shoot them so I don’t need to spend a bunch of time in post, You may want to lay off the personal attacks, they are against the rules and there is no need for it.

OP Dexter75 Senior Member • Posts: 2,893
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

The Davinator wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Any camera can take multiple images and the photographer can process them to his liking And it’s very easy to make truly superior results. I think what you’re actually saying is that you don’t feel like tapping into the superior IQ of an ILC because you don’t feel like post processing.

Sure, you can do that if you want to spend an hour in post doing what the iPhone can do with smart HDR in a fraction of a second. I’ve been a pro photographer for 15 years, I spend plenty of time in post. No, my iPhone won’t replace my camera, especially for my studio work, but it’s plenty capable of most everything else. I will be using it for a few natural light portrait shoots coming up though.

If you are spending an hour in post doing an HDR stack, you know nothing about being a photographer. I do multi shot HDR with Fuji 50R in less than a minute...with results that slaughter any phone. Same with any DSLR

Cool, let me know when your Fuji is capable of this without the need for any LR.

Smart HDR

Smart HDR is used for effects like Portrait Mode, but also all images on the ultra-wide camera, bright images on the wide-angle, and the very brightest images on the telephoto, like outside in the middle of the day, where the dynamic range can be high and handling harsh contrasts and preserving and pulling maximum detail from highlights and shadows is paramount. Now in its second generation, it's been machine-learned to recognize people and process them.. as people, to maintain the best highlight, shadows, and skin tones possible.

Deep Fusion

Deep Fusion, currently in beta, is used for mid to low-light images, like being inside. The process is … smarter than smart. It takes four standard exposures and four short exposures before capture, and then a long exposure at capture. Then, it takes the best of the short exposures, closest to the time of capture, the one with minimal motion and zero shutter lag, and that gets fed to the machine learning system. Next, it takes the best three of the standard exposures and the long exposure, and fuses that into a single, synthetic long exposure. That gets fed into the machine learning system as well.

Then, both 12mp images are pushed through a series of neural networks that compares each pixel from each image, within the full context of the image, to put together the best possible tone and detail data for the image, the highest texture with the lowest noise. It understands faces and skin, skies and trees, wood grain and cloth weave. And optimizes for all of it. The result is a single output image built from all those input images, with the best of all possible sharpness, detail, and color accuracy.

Lee Jay Forum Pro • Posts: 55,392
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Dexter75 wrote:

Lee Jay wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Any camera can take multiple images and the photographer can process them to his liking And it’s very easy to make truly superior results. I think what you’re actually saying is that you don’t feel like tapping into the superior IQ of an ILC because you don’t feel like post processing.

Sure, you can do that if you want to spend an hour in post doing what the iPhone can do with smart HDR in a fraction of a second.

An hour? Try a few seconds. Control-H in Lightroom.

I’ve been a pro photographer for 15 years,

That's either a lie or you're one of the many pro photographers who has very little or no technical knowledge about cameras or camera technology. I've met many such people.

I don’t use HDR in my workflow.

I rarely do.

I get my photos right when I shoot them so I don’t need to spend a bunch of time in post,

Not always possible. How, exactly, would you use fill-light on the moon or the sun's corona?

You may want to lay off the personal attacks, they are against the rules and there is no need for it.

And who was the one who started it by saying the discussion was completely over my head?

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63229727

Oh right.  That was you.

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Lee Jay

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OP Dexter75 Senior Member • Posts: 2,893
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Lee Jay wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

I get my photos right when I shoot them so I don’t need to spend a bunch of time in post,

Not always possible. How, exactly, would you use fill-light on the moon or the sun's corona?

Yes, it’s always possible for me. I don’t shoot the moon. I get paid to shoot fashion and glamour work. I control my own light in the studio and I know what I’m doing when I shoot portraits in natural light.

nevada5
nevada5 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,731
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Dexter75 wrote:

These are really close, even in lower light which is crazy. Most trained photographers will be able to spot the iPhone shots because of the aggressive bokeh,

A trained photographer wouldn't know what "aggressive bokeh" means.

Where did that phrase come from?

not because the overall photo is inferior quality, but your average person would never be able to spot that. I think if he had edited the iPhone photos by increasing the aperture slider to more match the look of the bokeh in the 1DX, they would pretty indistinguishable. The bokeh in portrait mode looks too mushy and fake to me if the aperture is anything more than about f/4 in most shots. You really have to watch it and adjust accordingly.

The most surprising thing here to me was at the 4 minute mark. The iPhone nails the tricky lighting situations where the 1DX struggles and blows out the backgrounds and sky. It’s those things like smart HDR, Night Mode, and now Deep Fusion, that are making these smartphone cameras really good these days and in some cases, even better than high end cameras.

https://youtu.be/6irorkXCLyw

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007peter
007peter Forum Pro • Posts: 12,634
Put aside (iPhone HATE), Computational Photography can benefit camera industry

Dexter75 wrote: The most surprising thing here to me was at the 4 minute mark. The iPhone nails the tricky lighting situations where the 1DX struggles and blows out the backgrounds and sky. It’s those things like smart HDR, Night Mode, and now Deep Fusion, that are making these smartphone cameras really good these days and in some cases, even better than high end cameras.

https://youtu.be/6irorkXCLyw

It is Refreshing to see there is an old person here with an OPEN MIND about computational photography that is changing the world. Most old traditionalist (too old to accept change) trash anything non-traditional:

  • they hate Auto-Focus, prefer MF
  • they hate Zoom, prefer Prime Only Snobs
  • they hate Auto-Expsoure Green Mode, only shoot M
  • they hate Digital camera @first, film hold out until 2006
  • they hate JPEG, only shoot RAW
  • they hate VIDEO,
  • now they hate Iphone and its computational photography
  • they hate.....and hate....and hate 

If one can put aside their Iphone Hatred temporarily.  There is a lot of benefits in implementing Computational Photography inside a traditional camera, particularly for Exposure benefits.

The Verge video here explain how Iphone 11 correct for Expsoure by:

The magic here is that Apple A13 CPU is so fast, all these operation is DONE under 1 seconds.  CPU cycle are essentially FREE, there is NO REASON (not) to take advantage of it.

While dedicated camera CPU in Sony A9 Bionz X, Olympus True Pic IV, Canon Digic 8 etc... may not be able to keep up against the 1 Billion operaton / sec of Apple's A13, they should be poweful enough to at least does Instant 2~3 expsoure Merge in 1 second.

Yes, both Sony and Canon have build-in HDR, but they're SLOW (required steady hands for 3 seconds) and take a long time to process & merge.  This is very different from Iphone & Google pixel that takes 27 photo and merge under 1 seconds.

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New Day Rising
New Day Rising Senior Member • Posts: 3,614
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Lee Jay wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

sluggy_warrior wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

How did the 1DXii do in the video in the shots with a subject in front of a window? Very poorly, it blew everything in the background out while the iPhone nailed it. The 1DX couldn’t even handle the following outdoor shots in the video with the guy under the tree, it blew out the sky while again, the iPhone nailed it. The iPhone has superior IQ to a $5500 full frame camera with a quality $2000 lens which is very impressive. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. With the iPhones Night Mode and an aftermarket lens, I wouldn’t assume the iPhone won’t even get a shot in the scenario you listed above.

What is your definition of IQ?

I hate to repeat myself here, but the only advantage a phone has is convenience. The software is smart enough to make the mediocre image looks decent, but there's nothing it can do that post-processing the RAW can't. A desktop software is much more powerful and have no real-time constraint.

The smartphone makes it easy for its user. The camera leaves the control and creativity to the photographer. If the photographer doesn't know how to shoot and process a backlit scene, s/he probably should just switch to using the smartphone if s/he doesn't want to invest time into learning/mastering her/his tool.

Sorry to everyone else, I'm bored at lunch and feel like feeding the trolls. Expecting FluidKnowledge and Brick Wall to jump in soon

My definition of IQ is reading a scene and delivering a quality photo and thats where the iPhone has the advantage.

That's the definition of good auto-modes, not the definition of good image quality.

Things like Smart HDR, Deep Fusion and Night Mode. We have all sat there with a DSLR or mirrorless fussing with our settings in a heavily backlit scene like the window shots in that video.

No, I just use a little pop of fill-flash.

The iPhone nails it with no fussing, point and shoot, thats superior IQ.

No, that's superior convenience. Maybe you thought IQ stood for something other than image quality?

The shot with the guy in front of the tree came out better on the iPhone too. While the camera is just shooing one image, the iPhone has already taken several images before you have even taken the shot and then takes several more, analyzes and combines them all and gives you the best shot within a second. Thats superior IQ and a camera can not even come close to matching that tech.

One thing I hate about shooting with cell phones is that it's just so darned slow. I can often get several shots at several different focal lengths and framing while the person next to me is unlocking their phone, and that's starting with a camera that's off.

Depending on what I've been doing with the phone previously (ie, what apps have been running) unlocking the phone, opening the camera app and being ready to take a photo takes between 3 and 5 seconds.

I fail to see the problem or how you are taking several photos at different focal lengths in that time (even if you aren't bothering about composition).

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sybersitizen Forum Pro • Posts: 15,587
Put aside ageism if you claim to oppose hate

007peter wrote:

It is Refreshing to see there is an old person here with an OPEN MIND about computational photography that is changing the world. Most old traditionalist (too old to accept change) trash anything non-traditional:

  • they hate Auto-Focus, prefer MF
  • they hate Zoom, prefer Prime Only Snobs
  • they hate Auto-Expsoure Green Mode, only shoot M
  • they hate Digital camera @first, film hold out until 2006
  • they hate JPEG, only shoot RAW
  • they hate VIDEO,
  • now they hate Iphone and its computational photography
  • they hate.....and hate....and hate

That's a load of crap. Sounds like you're an ageist. It is saddening to see there is someone here with a CLOSED MIND spewing derogatory stereotypes that are infecting the world.

New Day Rising
New Day Rising Senior Member • Posts: 3,614
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

I will never understand why so many members here - people who supposedly care about photography - get so bent out of shape by the idea that the masses are able to use small, convenient, multi purpose devices to take good photos in most situations. Photos that make them feel happy and satisfied.

I don't understand why so many people here get totally aggrieved that the masses do not pixel peep, do not make giant prints, do not feel any desire to take photos that require 400mm f/2.8 lenses. Therefore the masses don't see the greater merit of those photos that required tens of thousands of dollars worth of gear,and years of experience and hours of post processing. The masses are happy with their own photos and some members hate that happiness.

I don't understand it.

Actually, I do understand it, and find it all a bit pathetic.

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stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 23,625
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Dexter75 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Any camera can take multiple images and the photographer can process them to his liking And it’s very easy to make truly superior results. I think what you’re actually saying is that you don’t feel like tapping into the superior IQ of an ILC because you don’t feel like post processing.

Sure, you can do that if you want to spend an hour in post doing what the iPhone can do with smart HDR in a fraction of a second

its doing an okay imitation

. I’ve been a pro photographer for 15 years,

sure you have

I spend plenty of time in post. No, my iPhone won’t replace my camera, especially for my studio work, but it’s plenty capable of most everything else. I will be using it for a few natural light portrait shoots coming up though.

Go to it then bud

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stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 23,625
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Dexter75 wrote:

The Davinator wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Any camera can take multiple images and the photographer can process them to his liking And it’s very easy to make truly superior results. I think what you’re actually saying is that you don’t feel like tapping into the superior IQ of an ILC because you don’t feel like post processing.

Sure, you can do that if you want to spend an hour in post doing what the iPhone can do with smart HDR in a fraction of a second. I’ve been a pro photographer for 15 years, I spend plenty of time in post. No, my iPhone won’t replace my camera, especially for my studio work, but it’s plenty capable of most everything else. I will be using it for a few natural light portrait shoots coming up though.

If you are spending an hour in post doing an HDR stack, you know nothing about being a photographer. I do multi shot HDR with Fuji 50R in less than a minute...with results that slaughter any phone. Same with any DSLR

Cool, let me know when your Fuji is capable of this without the need for any LR.

Smart HDR

Smart HDR is used for effects like Portrait Mode, but also all images on the ultra-wide camera, bright images on the wide-angle, and the very brightest images on the telephoto, like outside in the middle of the day, where the dynamic range can be high and handling harsh contrasts and preserving and pulling maximum detail from highlights and shadows is paramount. Now in its second generation, it's been machine-learned to recognize people and process them.. as people, to maintain the best highlight, shadows, and skin tones possible.

Deep Fusion

Deep Fusion, currently in beta, is used for mid to low-light images, like being inside. The process is … smarter than smart. It takes four standard exposures and four short exposures before capture, and then a long exposure at capture. Then, it takes the best of the short exposures, closest to the time of capture, the one with minimal motion and zero shutter lag, and that gets fed to the machine learning system.

so just how does that machine learning work?

Next, it takes the best three of the standard exposures and the long exposure, and fuses that into a single, synthetic long exposure. That gets fed into the machine learning system as well.

Then, both 12mp images are pushed through a series of neural networks that compares each pixel from each image, within the full context of the image, to put together the best possible tone and detail data for the image, the highest texture with the lowest noise. It understands faces and skin, skies and trees, wood grain and cloth weave. And optimizes for all of it. The result is a single output image built from all those input images, with the best of all possible sharpness, detail, and color accuracy

Can’t argue with neural networks, it’s impossible.

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stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 23,625
Re: iPhone 11 Pro vs 1DXii

Dexter75 wrote:

Lee Jay wrote:

Dexter75 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Any camera can take multiple images and the photographer can process them to his liking And it’s very easy to make truly superior results. I think what you’re actually saying is that you don’t feel like tapping into the superior IQ of an ILC because you don’t feel like post processing.

Sure, you can do that if you want to spend an hour in post doing what the iPhone can do with smart HDR in a fraction of a second.

An hour? Try a few seconds. Control-H in Lightroom.

I’ve been a pro photographer for 15 years,

That's either a lie or you're one of the many pro photographers who has very little or no technical knowledge about cameras or camera technology. I've met many such people.

I don’t use HDR in my workflow. I get my photos right when I shoot them so I don’t need to spend a bunch of time in post, You may want to lay off the personal attacks, they are against the rules and there is no need for it.

Then why are you gung ho for smartphone HDR?

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nevada5
nevada5 Forum Pro • Posts: 14,731
Hate

007peter wrote:

Dexter75 wrote: The most surprising thing here to me was at the 4 minute mark. The

It is Refreshing to see there is an old person here with an OPEN MIND about computational photography that is changing the world. Most old traditionalist (too old to accept change) trash anything non-traditional:

  • they hate Auto-Focus, prefer MF
  • they hate Zoom, prefer Prime Only Snobs
  • they hate Auto-Expsoure Green Mode, only shoot M
  • they hate Digital camera @first, film hold out until 2006
  • they hate JPEG, only shoot RAW
  • they hate VIDEO,
  • now they hate Iphone and its computational photography
  • they hate.....and hate....and hate

I hate when people don't capitalize the first letter of the first word in a bullet point.  I hate when people spell out auto focus then compare it to MF.  I hate when people capitalize zoom for no reason.  I hate when people capitalize digital for no reason.  I hate when people spell raw with all caps.  I hate when people spell video with all caps.  I hate when someone spells iphone with a capital i (or was that a small L?)

Guess I'm just an old hater.

Oh, yeah, and all your bullet point statements are wrong.  But if you feel a need to stereotype people, go ahead.  But remember - that's a form of hating.  So, the people you describe, they hate doing things or making changes and such.  But you seem to be displaying a hatred toward people.  Tell us which is worse please.

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