See this really interesting interview with Olympus....

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 40,106
Re: Ok 2014.

JakeJY wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

JakeJY wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

https://www.massdevice.com/olympus-fined-85-million-in-dirty-duodenoscope-case-former-exec-faces-prison/

that for purposely hiding data about infection with their endoscopes

That was less than a year ago what’s really sad is all the good people at a company that work hrs suffering by the management unethical choices here

but looks like Olympus is still doing things

Again that is for violations that happened in 2012 and 2013 (when they were in the middle of the scandal). You need to actually read the article, not just look at the date posted or the ruling date. Cases can take a long time to process.

From the article, 2014.

"Under the FDCA, devices for which required MDRs and supplemental MDRs have not been filed are deemed misbranded, and it is a crime to ship such devices in interstate commerce. Between August 2012 and October 2014, Olympus shipped hundreds of misbranded duodenoscopes in the United States, generating approximately $40 million in revenue and approximately $33 million in total gross profit. Olympus’s payment of $85 million is more than 2½ times Olympus’s total profit from sales of the misbranded duodenoscopes."

Still quite something. You would think after the original scandal, this wouldn't happen. In this case is worse as it is medical.

"Olympus admitted that it failed to file adverse event reports with the FDA in 2012 and 2013 relating to three separate events involving infections in Europe connected to Olympus’s TJF-Q180V duodenoscope (Q180V)"

Those up to October 2014 were only deemed misbranded because they failed to file the MDRs in 2012 and 2013. I could totally see that happening while they were still restructuring from the scandal.

They still had the responsibility and were committing an illegal act. It wasn't until the law got to them that they came forward.

At any rate, even 2014 is substantially older than what was originally suggested.

True but that's post scandal.  And to be honest, to think this happens after the scandal is weird.  I actually just found out about this recently.

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Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 33,299
Reality
3

Forget all the interviews which of course are simply Olympus telling the interviewer possibly what they think will sound nice. Not exactly "fake news" but biased comments probably trying to justify their existence.

In other words, does any company interview ever tell the true story? It's just like trying to get the truth out of any politician.

Let's look at the real situation and all the Olympus M4/3 product lines that were created....

  • Pens......
  • Pen Lite, the E-PLxx series, designed to be sold to Asian women basically but some nice models along the way. The last two (9/10) being dumbed down more and show just about no advance from 9 to 10. Almost as though they lost interest in a shrinking camera market and are trying to make "new" models as cheaply as possible.
  • Pen Mini, E-PM1/2 died at 2, Olympus possibly recognised as no possible growth in this line so abandoned it early. Panasonic tried the same later (GM1/5) and that died as well.
  • Pen (Pro?), E-P1/2/3/5 the flagship of Pens was going well but they seemed to lose interest once they embarked on mock SLR shape OM-D bodies
  • Pen-F, admitted to be a fresh experimental line that never sold as well as expected, testing the price that people might pay, seems to be dead with one model.
  • OM-D.....
  • E-M10 Mk1/2 sensible beginner cameras, Mk3 dumbed down too much, lost their way again trying to appeal to those pathetic reviewers who constantly complained about complex menus.
  • E-M5, Mk1 hit the spot with many people and Mk2 improved on that, now Mk3 does seem definitely better again. Not lost their way at all with the E-M5 line.
  • E-M1 Mk1/2 ideal flagship camera with a seemingly good record of feature adding firmware updates, it seems they are serious about this line.
  • E-M1X, to me a bit bizarre and clearly the result of consulting their Olympus Visionaries and not consulting the general photo enthusiast. Whatever my opinion, it does showcase what can be delivered from our "little sensor"and hopefully lessons learned will migrate downwards to the E-M1 ideally.

That to me tells more of a story about Olympus than any optimistic interviews that are published.

Regards..... Guy

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VideoPic
OP VideoPic Senior Member • Posts: 1,857
Desperate last word....
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See my Blog for general articles on the Olympus, Panasonic, Sony and other cameras.
https://myolympusomd.blogspot.com/
https://www.instagram.com/olympus_enthusiast/

 VideoPic's gear list:VideoPic's gear list
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VideoPic
OP VideoPic Senior Member • Posts: 1,857
Re: Reality

Guy Parsons wrote:

Forget all the interviews which of course are simply Olympus telling the interviewer possibly what they think will sound nice. Not exactly "fake news" but biased comments probably trying to justify their existence.

In other words, does any company interview ever tell the true story? It's just like trying to get the truth out of any politician.

Let's look at the real situation and all the Olympus M4/3 product lines that were created....

  • Pens......
  • Pen Lite, the E-PLxx series, designed to be sold to Asian women basically but some nice models along the way. The last two (9/10) being dumbed down more and show just about no advance from 9 to 10. Almost as though they lost interest in a shrinking camera market and are trying to make "new" models as cheaply as possible.
  • Pen Mini, E-PM1/2 died at 2, Olympus possibly recognised as no possible growth in this line so abandoned it early. Panasonic tried the same later (GM1/5) and that died as well.
  • Pen (Pro?), E-P1/2/3/5 the flagship of Pens was going well but they seemed to lose interest once they embarked on mock SLR shape OM-D bodies
  • Pen-F, admitted to be a fresh experimental line that never sold as well as expected, testing the price that people might pay, seems to be dead with one model.
  • OM-D.....
  • E-M10 Mk1/2 sensible beginner cameras, Mk3 dumbed down too much, lost their way again trying to appeal to those pathetic reviewers who constantly complained about complex menus.
  • E-M5, Mk1 hit the spot with many people and Mk2 improved on that, now Mk3 does seem definitely better again. Not lost their way at all with the E-M5 line.
  • E-M1 Mk1/2 ideal flagship camera with a seemingly good record of feature adding firmware updates, it seems they are serious about this line.
  • E-M1X, to me a bit bizarre and clearly the result of consulting their Olympus Visionaries and not consulting the general photo enthusiast. Whatever my opinion, it does showcase what can be delivered from our "little sensor"and hopefully lessons learned will migrate downwards to the E-M1 ideally.

That to me tells more of a story about Olympus than any optimistic interviews that are published.

Regards..... Guy

Guy maybe you should study the source (Olympus) a little more seriously. All you did in your comprehensive summary, you were parroting the same "Olympus is so bad" cult we witness posting on the M43 forum everyday.... I started reading your post in earnest hoping to learn something until it became clear - you repeating the half full glass cult belief....sad....

You will be amazed at how much you can learn from studying a company and by looking for the right info. The cult is the worst place to go find info......

Best

Siegfried

PS. Do you really believe all the negative you wrote?

-- hide signature --

See my Blog for general articles on the Olympus, Panasonic, Sony and other cameras.
https://myolympusomd.blogspot.com/
https://www.instagram.com/olympus_enthusiast/

 VideoPic's gear list:VideoPic's gear list
Olympus PEN-F Olympus E-M1 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12-50mm 1:3.5-6.3 EZ Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS +4 more
gary0319
gary0319 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,950
Re: Reality
1

Guy Parsons wrote:

Forget all the interviews which of course are simply Olympus telling the interviewer possibly what they think will sound nice. Not exactly "fake news" but biased comments probably trying to justify their existence.

In other words, does any company interview ever tell the true story? It's just like trying to get the truth out of any politician.

Let's look at the real situation and all the Olympus M4/3 product lines that were created....

  • Pens......
  • Pen Lite, the E-PLxx series, designed to be sold to Asian women basically but some nice models along the way. The last two (9/10) being dumbed down more and show just about no advance from 9 to 10. Almost as though they lost interest in a shrinking camera market and are trying to make "new" models as cheaply as possible.
  • Pen Mini, E-PM1/2 died at 2, Olympus possibly recognised as no possible growth in this line so abandoned it early. Panasonic tried the same later (GM1/5) and that died as well.
  • Pen (Pro?), E-P1/2/3/5 the flagship of Pens was going well but they seemed to lose interest once they embarked on mock SLR shape OM-D bodies
  • Pen-F, admitted to be a fresh experimental line that never sold as well as expected, testing the price that people might pay, seems to be dead with one model.
  • OM-D.....
  • E-M10 Mk1/2 sensible beginner cameras, Mk3 dumbed down too much, lost their way again trying to appeal to those pathetic reviewers who constantly complained about complex menus.
  • E-M5, Mk1 hit the spot with many people and Mk2 improved on that, now Mk3 does seem definitely better again. Not lost their way at all with the E-M5 line.
  • E-M1 Mk1/2 ideal flagship camera with a seemingly good record of feature adding firmware updates, it seems they are serious about this line.
  • E-M1X, to me a bit bizarre and clearly the result of consulting their Olympus Visionaries and not consulting the general photo enthusiast. Whatever my opinion, it does showcase what can be delivered from our "little sensor"and hopefully lessons learned will migrate downwards to the E-M1 ideally.

That to me tells more of a story about Olympus than any optimistic interviews that are published.

Regards..... Guy

From your outline, it seems to me that what one would consider the low end of the model (Pro Pens excluded) a poor investment for Olympus. Yet, often it is trumpeted on this forum that what Olympus needs is a cheaper offering. But, if they cannot make a profit on cheaper model, either because they are incapable of designing one that will sell well, or the manufacturing is too costly, I suspect all that haranguing about “cheaper” is just futile.

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 33,299
Re: Reality
3

VideoPic wrote:

Guy maybe you should study the source (Olympus) a little more seriously. All you did in your comprehensive summary, you were parroting the same "Olympus is so bad" cult we witness posting on the M43 forum everyday.... I started reading your post in earnest hoping to learn something until it became clear - you repeating the half full glass cult belief....sad....

You will be amazed at how much you can learn from studying a company and by looking for the right info. The cult is the worst place to go find info......

The facts as far as the company publishes are that the camera division rarely makes any profit. It is only a small part of the company and the constant threat is that a goodly proportion of the shareholders are banks and we all know how they like to make money and frown upon any non-performing divisions. Olympus needs to constantly remind shareholders that the generous profits from the medical division can happily keep the loss making camera division staggering on.

Best

Siegfried

PS. Do you really believe all the negative you wrote?

I did not deliberately concentrate on the negative, it's just the facts as I see them.

As a long time Olympus enthusiast (since 2002 on these forums with Olympus products) hoping for something to eventually replace my E-P5 when it finally fails, I see nothing there to excite me, despite hoping for some glimmer of light. If everything that I own disappeared I would most likely buy M4/3 again and the choice now for me would be the E-M5 Mk3 despite some things I don't like or use.

All I see from you is the "glass overflowing" remarks when the glass truly is only half full and I'm sad that it is that way. You really come across as an Olympus shill.

The old promise of smaller and better has mostly become larger and a little better. Of course that is all to do with the collapsing camera market and the current and future need to make more profit per unit - by producing less units but at a higher unit price.

I think my set of notes reveals even to myself that the E-M5 Mk3 and the E-M1 Mk2 are the current standout products, the rest seem to be just fillers for certain price points. Read it again without the rose coloured glasses on.

Regards..... Guy

 Guy Parsons's gear list:Guy Parsons's gear list
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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 33,299
Re: Reality
2

gary0319 wrote:

From your outline, it seems to me that what one would consider the low end of the model (Pro Pens excluded) a poor investment for Olympus. Yet, often it is trumpeted on this forum that what Olympus needs is a cheaper offering. But, if they cannot make a profit on cheaper model, either because they are incapable of designing one that will sell well, or the manufacturing is too costly, I suspect all that haranguing about “cheaper” is just futile.

People here need to realise that the era of cheap and good cameras is over, from now on to get "good" cameras it will be an excursion to better featured and tending to very expensive. It's the only way that camera makers may survive. The collapse in camera sales came way harder and faster than any of the camera makers expected.

 Guy Parsons's gear list:Guy Parsons's gear list
Sony RX100 VI Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus PEN E-PL5 Olympus PEN E-P5 Olympus OM-D E-M10 II +5 more
gary0319
gary0319 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,950
Re: Reality
1

Guy Parsons wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

From your outline, it seems to me that what one would consider the low end of the model (Pro Pens excluded) a poor investment for Olympus. Yet, often it is trumpeted on this forum that what Olympus needs is a cheaper offering. But, if they cannot make a profit on cheaper model, either because they are incapable of designing one that will sell well, or the manufacturing is too costly, I suspect all that haranguing about “cheaper” is just futile.

People here need to realise that the era of cheap and good cameras is over, from now on to get "good" cameras it will be an excursion to better featured and tending to very expensive. It's the only way that camera makers may survive. The collapse in camera sales came way harder and faster than any of the camera makers expected.

Agreed.

I also think that those new cheaper Canon and  Nikon Mirrorless bodies are actually somewhat low margin loss leaders to entice current DSLR users to switch to Mirrorless. The actual profit is in all the new native lenses that will be purchased, once the new Mirrorless owner realizes that the adapted lens route is negating a lot of the advantages of both the older lens and the new Mirrorless body.

M43 has a mature lens line up and a lot of us have a pretty complete set of lenses, so not a big profit pot available there. The profit needs to come from each new camera, and that means a higher price (margin)

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Gnine Senior Member • Posts: 1,028
Re: Reality
2

Guy Parsons wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

From your outline, it seems to me that what one would consider the low end of the model (Pro Pens excluded) a poor investment for Olympus. Yet, often it is trumpeted on this forum that what Olympus needs is a cheaper offering. But, if they cannot make a profit on cheaper model, either because they are incapable of designing one that will sell well, or the manufacturing is too costly, I suspect all that haranguing about “cheaper” is just futile.

People here need to realise that the era of cheap and good cameras is over, from now on to get "good" cameras it will be an excursion to better featured and tending to very expensive. It's the only way that camera makers may survive. The collapse in camera sales came way harder and faster than any of the camera makers expected.

This^^^^^^^ So many people seem to think that the camera manufactures are simply ripping people off with high pricing, to make fast and easy $$$. If this were the case, why are they still losing money, and running at a loss? Mostly. So much squealing about favorite cameras being discontinued, but stop & think for just a second. If they were making good money off a product, do you think they'd stop making it? Bit of a reality check required. It comes back to the age of entitlement again. If I don't get exactly what I want, then I'll kick & scream & let the whole world know -well, those that browse interwebz forums anyway, how unfair life is, & why I deserve better. Face facts, life is full of compromises, and honestly, we've never had it better. So much choice, for not a lot of $$ in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps start appreciating what you have, rather than what you think you don't.

UppercanadianAcadian Regular Member • Posts: 467
Re: Reality
1

Gnine wrote:

Guy Parsons wrote:

gary0319 wrote:

From your outline, it seems to me that what one would consider the low end of the model (Pro Pens excluded) a poor investment for Olympus. Yet, often it is trumpeted on this forum that what Olympus needs is a cheaper offering. But, if they cannot make a profit on cheaper model, either because they are incapable of designing one that will sell well, or the manufacturing is too costly, I suspect all that haranguing about “cheaper” is just futile.

People here need to realise that the era of cheap and good cameras is over, from now on to get "good" cameras it will be an excursion to better featured and tending to very expensive. It's the only way that camera makers may survive. The collapse in camera sales came way harder and faster than any of the camera makers expected.

This^^^^^^^ So many people seem to think that the camera manufactures are simply ripping people off with high pricing, to make fast and easy $$$. If this were the case, why are they still losing money, and running at a loss? Mostly. So much squealing about favorite cameras being discontinued, but stop & think for just a second. If they were making good money off a product, do you think they'd stop making it? Bit of a reality check required. It comes back to the age of entitlement again. If I don't get exactly what I want, then I'll kick & scream & let the whole world know -well, those that browse interwebz forums anyway, how unfair life is, & why I deserve better. Face facts, life is full of compromises, and honestly, we've never had it better. So much choice, for not a lot of $$ in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps start appreciating what you have, rather than what you think you don't.

Many people have difficulty in understanding abstract concepts that do not involve their specific interests, and have difficulty in understanding other perspectives

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