Beautiful unknown Pen F

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Doug Janis Regular Member • Posts: 487
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F
1

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

Wigelii wrote:

I experienced once more some excited reactions to the Pen F, last Sunday.

It is not the first time that this happens but this time it was extreme.

I was a whole day making pictures at a classical music event in a big and very busy cultural centre in Antwerp, using an em1 II and 2 PenF (1 silver, 1 black) and during the day a lot of people approached me to ask questions about the Pen F.

Some thought it was analog, a lot of them thought that it was something from Fujifilm, but everybody was raving about how beautiful the Pen Fs are.

When I told them that it were Olympus camera's, as always, they were all surprised and/or only vaguely knew Olympus.

This shows 2 things:

1. Fujifilm does a great job branding their camera's. When I first saw the Pen F, it was clear to me that this should be heavily marketed as a "must have" luxury item. Unfortunately Olympus never did.

2. Olympus shouldn't abandon the Pen F but reintroduce an updated, even more beautiful and design oriented, version

By the way, I use the Pen Fs very intensely (together with 2 em1s and a em10) because I do lots of theatre, classical music and wedding photography, and they are very reliable work horses, something you would not expect from such beauties.

The PEN-F was heavily reviewed. It's design piqued a LOT of interest from photography media.

It had 2 knocks against it:

1) The price was too high for the specs. The trendy, hipster (see the video ad and the packaging with its own Dolce & Gabbanna model printed on the box) marketing didn't help. It didn't look like a step up from the EPL/M-series and didn't look like a rangefinder alternative to the OM series entirely. The grip helped with the Pro/2.8 glass...they got that part right, but the lack of any grip made it not so comfortable to hold for the price. And no weather sealing and a lacklustre EVF. Not a real value camera.

2) The JPEG-centric color dial and Art and Scn filters came across as a feeble attempt to replace post-processing on third party devices. In doing so it alienated the same buyers at a price point who are RAW shooters almost exclusively. The overall design screamed "traditional rangefinder" or "street", while the software and color wheel yelled back "consumer grade".

Once again, I must admit I completely do not understand this anti art filter and anti colour dial mentality.
When the pen-f came out, there were so many people making negative comments (of varying intensity) regarding these things, that I actually thought:

‘good lord. Did Olympus disable the ability to shoot in raw if you use the front colour dial of the pen-f??????’

I actually asked that question on these forums, and was obviously told that of course you can shoot raw AND jpeg/art filter/colour dial.

The color dial was Japan Inc. trying to do in-camera, on a tiny, low res rear screen, what everyone does with a free app on a mobileOS device...and the latter does it 10x better and can share instantaneously.

Yes you can reconfigure, but the whole concept and labelling is Olympus practically begging you NOT to use your smartphone. It didn't work, was a waste of resources, confused the market, looked cheap (RAW snobbery), and came across as an unfocused (sic) design and marketing effort.

Most reviewers agreed.

Art filters etc. are a throwback to the pre-mobileOS days. They are essentially crappy apps resting on the already substandard camera OS, using resources better applied elsewhere.

 Doug Janis's gear list:Doug Janis's gear list
Ricoh GR III Olympus E-M5 II Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 7-14mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro +3 more
VideoPic
VideoPic Senior Member • Posts: 1,857
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F
3

Doug Janis wrote:

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

Wigelii wrote:

I experienced once more some excited reactions to the Pen F, last Sunday.

It is not the first time that this happens but this time it was extreme.

I was a whole day making pictures at a classical music event in a big and very busy cultural centre in Antwerp, using an em1 II and 2 PenF (1 silver, 1 black) and during the day a lot of people approached me to ask questions about the Pen F.

Some thought it was analog, a lot of them thought that it was something from Fujifilm, but everybody was raving about how beautiful the Pen Fs are.

When I told them that it were Olympus camera's, as always, they were all surprised and/or only vaguely knew Olympus.

This shows 2 things:

1. Fujifilm does a great job branding their camera's. When I first saw the Pen F, it was clear to me that this should be heavily marketed as a "must have" luxury item. Unfortunately Olympus never did.

2. Olympus shouldn't abandon the Pen F but reintroduce an updated, even more beautiful and design oriented, version

By the way, I use the Pen Fs very intensely (together with 2 em1s and a em10) because I do lots of theatre, classical music and wedding photography, and they are very reliable work horses, something you would not expect from such beauties.

The PEN-F was heavily reviewed. It's design piqued a LOT of interest from photography media.

It had 2 knocks against it:

1) The price was too high for the specs. The trendy, hipster (see the video ad and the packaging with its own Dolce & Gabbanna model printed on the box) marketing didn't help. It didn't look like a step up from the EPL/M-series and didn't look like a rangefinder alternative to the OM series entirely. The grip helped with the Pro/2.8 glass...they got that part right, but the lack of any grip made it not so comfortable to hold for the price. And no weather sealing and a lacklustre EVF. Not a real value camera.

2) The JPEG-centric color dial and Art and Scn filters came across as a feeble attempt to replace post-processing on third party devices. In doing so it alienated the same buyers at a price point who are RAW shooters almost exclusively. The overall design screamed "traditional rangefinder" or "street", while the software and color wheel yelled back "consumer grade".

Once again, I must admit I completely do not understand this anti art filter and anti colour dial mentality.
When the pen-f came out, there were so many people making negative comments (of varying intensity) regarding these things, that I actually thought:

‘good lord. Did Olympus disable the ability to shoot in raw if you use the front colour dial of the pen-f??????’

I actually asked that question on these forums, and was obviously told that of course you can shoot raw AND jpeg/art filter/colour dial.

The color dial was Japan Inc. trying to do in-camera, on a tiny, low res rear screen, what everyone does with a free app on a mobileOS device...and the latter does it 10x better and can share instantaneously.

Yes you can reconfigure, but the whole concept and labelling is Olympus practically begging you NOT to use your smartphone. It didn't work, was a waste of resources, confused the market, looked cheap (RAW snobbery), and came across as an unfocused (sic) design and marketing effort.

Most reviewers agreed.

Art filters etc. are a throwback to the pre-mobileOS days. They are essentially crappy apps resting on the already substandard camera OS, using resources better applied elsewhere.

Doug really...when I see this one dimensional reasoning it just drives me crazy....

Then again we see this type of thinking so often - example, the water pipe in the kitchen get a leak and spray water all over the kitchen. One person will focus on the pipe and will start a loosing battle with the pipe in an effort to stop the water. The other person will go outside and close the tap....

I agree to battle with the camera screen is a loosing battle. The good news is the previous Olympus editing software and today the way better or improved Workspace is the best place to go develop, test and fine tune your own unique color profiles. Workspace also enables the multi dimensional thinker to build an own library or even share profiles with others.....

So yes stepping out the kitchen will change your world and view of the Pen F....

-- hide signature --

See my Blog for general articles on the Olympus, Panasonic, Sony and other cameras.
https://myolympusomd.blogspot.com/
https://www.instagram.com/olympus_enthusiast/

 VideoPic's gear list:VideoPic's gear list
Olympus PEN-F Olympus E-M1 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 25mm F1.8 Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm F1.8 +4 more
BWfoto
BWfoto Regular Member • Posts: 190
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F
3

People do light up when they view my silver Pen F especially with my silver 75mm 1.8 mounted. Olympus should give us a new one better AF etc etc

UppercanadianAcadian Regular Member • Posts: 467
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F

Doug Janis wrote:

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

Wigelii wrote:

I experienced once more some excited reactions to the Pen F, last Sunday.

It is not the first time that this happens but this time it was extreme.

I was a whole day making pictures at a classical music event in a big and very busy cultural centre in Antwerp, using an em1 II and 2 PenF (1 silver, 1 black) and during the day a lot of people approached me to ask questions about the Pen F.

Some thought it was analog, a lot of them thought that it was something from Fujifilm, but everybody was raving about how beautiful the Pen Fs are.

When I told them that it were Olympus camera's, as always, they were all surprised and/or only vaguely knew Olympus.

This shows 2 things:

1. Fujifilm does a great job branding their camera's. When I first saw the Pen F, it was clear to me that this should be heavily marketed as a "must have" luxury item. Unfortunately Olympus never did.

2. Olympus shouldn't abandon the Pen F but reintroduce an updated, even more beautiful and design oriented, version

By the way, I use the Pen Fs very intensely (together with 2 em1s and a em10) because I do lots of theatre, classical music and wedding photography, and they are very reliable work horses, something you would not expect from such beauties.

The PEN-F was heavily reviewed. It's design piqued a LOT of interest from photography media.

It had 2 knocks against it:

1) The price was too high for the specs. The trendy, hipster (see the video ad and the packaging with its own Dolce & Gabbanna model printed on the box) marketing didn't help. It didn't look like a step up from the EPL/M-series and didn't look like a rangefinder alternative to the OM series entirely. The grip helped with the Pro/2.8 glass...they got that part right, but the lack of any grip made it not so comfortable to hold for the price. And no weather sealing and a lacklustre EVF. Not a real value camera.

2) The JPEG-centric color dial and Art and Scn filters came across as a feeble attempt to replace post-processing on third party devices. In doing so it alienated the same buyers at a price point who are RAW shooters almost exclusively. The overall design screamed "traditional rangefinder" or "street", while the software and color wheel yelled back "consumer grade".

Once again, I must admit I completely do not understand this anti art filter and anti colour dial mentality.
When the pen-f came out, there were so many people making negative comments (of varying intensity) regarding these things, that I actually thought:

‘good lord. Did Olympus disable the ability to shoot in raw if you use the front colour dial of the pen-f??????’

I actually asked that question on these forums, and was obviously told that of course you can shoot raw AND jpeg/art filter/colour dial.

The color dial was Japan Inc. trying to do in-camera, on a tiny, low res rear screen, what everyone does with a free app on a mobileOS device...and the latter does it 10x better and can share instantaneously.

Yes you can reconfigure, but the whole concept and labelling is Olympus practically begging you NOT to use your smartphone. It didn't work, was a waste of resources, confused the market, looked cheap (RAW snobbery), and came across as an unfocused (sic) design and marketing effort.

Most reviewers agreed.

Art filters etc. are a throwback to the pre-mobileOS days. They are essentially crappy apps resting on the already substandard camera OS, using resources better applied elsewhere.

This is an interesting view. It is not really instantaneous, or quicker at all, as you would have to transfer the original pic to the camera then open the app and modify it with whatever filter, and then you can send it off

with the art filter in camera, you send it to your camera through the app and share it already done

Plus if I remember correctly the app significantly downsizes the pictures which to me is ridiculous

 UppercanadianAcadian's gear list:UppercanadianAcadian's gear list
Olympus PEN E-P5
sean000 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,671
Re: People still think my E-m5 is a film camera
7

I have a silver E-M5 and a black E-M1 Mark II.  Maybe it's because of the silver, but I have had people ask me if it is a vintage film camera ever since I started shooting with it in 2012.

The PEN F is indeed a beautiful camera, even more so than the OM-D series (which is quite elegant). Olympus lenses are also generally very attractive.

Cameras like the PEN F are going to be more appreciated by those who appreciate beautiful design. You tend to find people who appreciate beautiful design in the art and music communities (and of course in industries like architecture, furniture design, publishing, and fashion). The modern PEN F resembles it's mid-century ancestors, and in most design circles mid-century modern is still regarded as the golden era for everything from furniture to fonts.

The PEN F and some of the Fujis are just beautiful to look at. I'm almost afraid to own one because I might miss a shot while I'm too busy admiring the camera! 

 sean000's gear list:sean000's gear list
Olympus E-M1 II Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 40-150mm F2.8 Pro +6 more
RobPNth Contributing Member • Posts: 552
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F

I've just returned from a trip to New England to see the Fall colours. I  had my E-M1.2 and my wife had her Pen-F.  It was the Pen-F that attracted the most attention!

-- hide signature --
Peter Del Veteran Member • Posts: 5,825
Re: Well the good news is the Pen F line is NOT dead.....
1

VideoPic wrote:

When I started my blog one of the things I decided was not to do product reviews, there are enough review sites & videos on the web. That said with the EM5 MKIII and the positive reactions, critical reactions and then pure crap we saw in subsequent discussions I decided to do something on Olympus, their 100 year anniversary, Imaging department priorities and to link that to the new EM5 III.....

I started with basic research and as always were astonished to see how easy and quickly one debunk 95% of ALL the negative claims we see a few times a week on this forum.

One of those "popular negative" subjects (can't say comments as it's many) is the Pen-F and its generally claimed that the Pen-F is dead and has been discontinued.... One of the more ridiculous claims are Olympus are battling to get rid of their excess Pen-F stock??

Thing is one need to take the time and study the Olympus Imaging Dept product strategy, match that with statements Olympus make during interviews to create their product line future "picture"...

In some interviews Olympus directly states that the Pen F product line will continue, in other statements one read the existing product lines will continue. Nowhere did I find any direct mention by Olympus that they plan to stop or cancel the Pen F line....

What's also interesting is Olympus used the EPL8 and the EPL9 to target female photographers hoping to grow their base. This was not as successful as they hoped it to be. I guess our local doom prophets found parts of these reports and immediately declared the complete Pen range a disaster, then started spreading rumors that Olympus stopping the Pen range and battling to sell stock....one does not always know what trigger these crazed doom prophets....

But the good news is for now the Pen-F will continue.....

At an Olympus presentation I attended on Monday

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63227988

the Olympus demonstrator said that the Pen F ii was not on their camera road map.

Peter Del

 Peter Del's gear list:Peter Del's gear list
Olympus PEN-F Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 14-150mm 1:4-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II +5 more
Doug Janis Regular Member • Posts: 487
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F

VideoPic wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

Wigelii wrote:

I experienced once more some excited reactions to the Pen F, last Sunday.

It is not the first time that this happens but this time it was extreme.

I was a whole day making pictures at a classical music event in a big and very busy cultural centre in Antwerp, using an em1 II and 2 PenF (1 silver, 1 black) and during the day a lot of people approached me to ask questions about the Pen F.

Some thought it was analog, a lot of them thought that it was something from Fujifilm, but everybody was raving about how beautiful the Pen Fs are.

When I told them that it were Olympus camera's, as always, they were all surprised and/or only vaguely knew Olympus.

This shows 2 things:

1. Fujifilm does a great job branding their camera's. When I first saw the Pen F, it was clear to me that this should be heavily marketed as a "must have" luxury item. Unfortunately Olympus never did.

2. Olympus shouldn't abandon the Pen F but reintroduce an updated, even more beautiful and design oriented, version

By the way, I use the Pen Fs very intensely (together with 2 em1s and a em10) because I do lots of theatre, classical music and wedding photography, and they are very reliable work horses, something you would not expect from such beauties.

The PEN-F was heavily reviewed. It's design piqued a LOT of interest from photography media.

It had 2 knocks against it:

1) The price was too high for the specs. The trendy, hipster (see the video ad and the packaging with its own Dolce & Gabbanna model printed on the box) marketing didn't help. It didn't look like a step up from the EPL/M-series and didn't look like a rangefinder alternative to the OM series entirely. The grip helped with the Pro/2.8 glass...they got that part right, but the lack of any grip made it not so comfortable to hold for the price. And no weather sealing and a lacklustre EVF. Not a real value camera.

2) The JPEG-centric color dial and Art and Scn filters came across as a feeble attempt to replace post-processing on third party devices. In doing so it alienated the same buyers at a price point who are RAW shooters almost exclusively. The overall design screamed "traditional rangefinder" or "street", while the software and color wheel yelled back "consumer grade".

Once again, I must admit I completely do not understand this anti art filter and anti colour dial mentality.
When the pen-f came out, there were so many people making negative comments (of varying intensity) regarding these things, that I actually thought:

‘good lord. Did Olympus disable the ability to shoot in raw if you use the front colour dial of the pen-f??????’

I actually asked that question on these forums, and was obviously told that of course you can shoot raw AND jpeg/art filter/colour dial.

The color dial was Japan Inc. trying to do in-camera, on a tiny, low res rear screen, what everyone does with a free app on a mobileOS device...and the latter does it 10x better and can share instantaneously.

Yes you can reconfigure, but the whole concept and labelling is Olympus practically begging you NOT to use your smartphone. It didn't work, was a waste of resources, confused the market, looked cheap (RAW snobbery), and came across as an unfocused (sic) design and marketing effort.

Most reviewers agreed.

Art filters etc. are a throwback to the pre-mobileOS days. They are essentially crappy apps resting on the already substandard camera OS, using resources better applied elsewhere.

Doug really...when I see this one dimensional reasoning it just drives me crazy....

Then again we see this type of thinking so often - example, the water pipe in the kitchen get a leak and spray water all over the kitchen. One person will focus on the pipe and will start a loosing battle with the pipe in an effort to stop the water. The other person will go outside and close the tap....

I agree to battle with the camera screen is a loosing battle. The good news is the previous Olympus editing software and today the way better or improved Workspace is the best place to go develop, test and fine tune your own unique color profiles. Workspace also enables the multi dimensional thinker to build an own library or even share profiles with others.....

So yes stepping out the kitchen will change your world and view of the Pen F....

For every 1 PC/Mac there are 7 mobileOS devices.

They account for the staggering majority of posted and generated images in the world.

If it's not mobileOS, it's not advancing dedicated camera sales. The desktop and even laptop "computer" metaphor is mostly dead.

As I said, the JPEG editing software on the phone is a lousy app sitting clunkily on a terrible device OS using an awful screen to attempt editing.

Editing on- or -in-camera is a dud process from the get-go. It's far less convenient, accessible, and qualitative than on dedicated computing and networked platforms. The ubiquity of mobileOS is where the market resides for capture, editing, and networking images. Dedicated optical cameras now only have a tiny fraction of the capture part of that equation. They suck at the editing part and are as bad at networking. The sole goal of all optical camera makers should be to get RAW or JPEG off camera...fast, and onto a dedicated computing device for editing and sharing, mobileOS as capable and prioritized as PC/Mac.

The PEN-F and E-PL ads were ridiculous as they pretended there wasn't even a networked much less smartphone world. Olympus advertising was already 10 years dated when the PEN-F was released and sadly, that marketing made its way into design.

And the PEN-F was cancelled. Compromises and costs cilled it.

 Doug Janis's gear list:Doug Janis's gear list
Ricoh GR III Olympus E-M5 II Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 7-14mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro +3 more
Doug Janis Regular Member • Posts: 487
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

Wigelii wrote:

I experienced once more some excited reactions to the Pen F, last Sunday.

It is not the first time that this happens but this time it was extreme.

I was a whole day making pictures at a classical music event in a big and very busy cultural centre in Antwerp, using an em1 II and 2 PenF (1 silver, 1 black) and during the day a lot of people approached me to ask questions about the Pen F.

Some thought it was analog, a lot of them thought that it was something from Fujifilm, but everybody was raving about how beautiful the Pen Fs are.

When I told them that it were Olympus camera's, as always, they were all surprised and/or only vaguely knew Olympus.

This shows 2 things:

1. Fujifilm does a great job branding their camera's. When I first saw the Pen F, it was clear to me that this should be heavily marketed as a "must have" luxury item. Unfortunately Olympus never did.

2. Olympus shouldn't abandon the Pen F but reintroduce an updated, even more beautiful and design oriented, version

By the way, I use the Pen Fs very intensely (together with 2 em1s and a em10) because I do lots of theatre, classical music and wedding photography, and they are very reliable work horses, something you would not expect from such beauties.

The PEN-F was heavily reviewed. It's design piqued a LOT of interest from photography media.

It had 2 knocks against it:

1) The price was too high for the specs. The trendy, hipster (see the video ad and the packaging with its own Dolce & Gabbanna model printed on the box) marketing didn't help. It didn't look like a step up from the EPL/M-series and didn't look like a rangefinder alternative to the OM series entirely. The grip helped with the Pro/2.8 glass...they got that part right, but the lack of any grip made it not so comfortable to hold for the price. And no weather sealing and a lacklustre EVF. Not a real value camera.

2) The JPEG-centric color dial and Art and Scn filters came across as a feeble attempt to replace post-processing on third party devices. In doing so it alienated the same buyers at a price point who are RAW shooters almost exclusively. The overall design screamed "traditional rangefinder" or "street", while the software and color wheel yelled back "consumer grade".

Once again, I must admit I completely do not understand this anti art filter and anti colour dial mentality.
When the pen-f came out, there were so many people making negative comments (of varying intensity) regarding these things, that I actually thought:

‘good lord. Did Olympus disable the ability to shoot in raw if you use the front colour dial of the pen-f??????’

I actually asked that question on these forums, and was obviously told that of course you can shoot raw AND jpeg/art filter/colour dial.

The color dial was Japan Inc. trying to do in-camera, on a tiny, low res rear screen, what everyone does with a free app on a mobileOS device...and the latter does it 10x better and can share instantaneously.

Yes you can reconfigure, but the whole concept and labelling is Olympus practically begging you NOT to use your smartphone. It didn't work, was a waste of resources, confused the market, looked cheap (RAW snobbery), and came across as an unfocused (sic) design and marketing effort.

Most reviewers agreed.

Art filters etc. are a throwback to the pre-mobileOS days. They are essentially crappy apps resting on the already substandard camera OS, using resources better applied elsewhere.

This is an interesting view. It is not really instantaneous, or quicker at all, as you would have to transfer the original pic to the camera then open the app and modify it with whatever filter, and then you can send it off

with the art filter in camera, you send it to your camera through the app and share it already done

Plus if I remember correctly the app significantly downsizes the pictures which to me is ridiculous

The workflow you described has to be done anyway as pretty much the major gateway to all image networking now is done via mobile OS devices followed a distant second by PC/Macs.

Jane and Joe Consumer...the ones in the PEN-F ads, are likely far more nimble with mobileOS apps than any junk app or color dial on a dedicated camera. Literals, this was Olympus trying to reinvent the wheel.

The main flaw affecting the dedicated optical camera maker industry is an inability to transfer images onto mobileOS at the highest quality, quickly.

I was just at a café today and three grandmas were each with an iPad sharing photos of a trip they'd taken together. Over 70s very familiar with the workings of an iOS device, comfortable with organizing, sharing, and enjoying photos. That's the very function of a dedicated computer device, but not an optical camera. The PEN-F was a very naked attempt by Olympus to usurp that pattern and make the camera itself the editing device. The fact they actually engineered a dedicated control dial to do that speaks volumes about Olympus's misplaced understanding of the imaging market.

And it's probably a factor adding to the PEN-Fs cost and, ultimately, it's lack of market staying power. That's the shame, because the RF design is useful and has a place in m43.

 Doug Janis's gear list:Doug Janis's gear list
Ricoh GR III Olympus E-M5 II Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 7-14mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro +3 more
UppercanadianAcadian Regular Member • Posts: 467
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F
3

Doug Janis wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

Wigelii wrote:

I experienced once more some excited reactions to the Pen F, last Sunday.

It is not the first time that this happens but this time it was extreme.

I was a whole day making pictures at a classical music event in a big and very busy cultural centre in Antwerp, using an em1 II and 2 PenF (1 silver, 1 black) and during the day a lot of people approached me to ask questions about the Pen F.

Some thought it was analog, a lot of them thought that it was something from Fujifilm, but everybody was raving about how beautiful the Pen Fs are.

When I told them that it were Olympus camera's, as always, they were all surprised and/or only vaguely knew Olympus.

This shows 2 things:

1. Fujifilm does a great job branding their camera's. When I first saw the Pen F, it was clear to me that this should be heavily marketed as a "must have" luxury item. Unfortunately Olympus never did.

2. Olympus shouldn't abandon the Pen F but reintroduce an updated, even more beautiful and design oriented, version

By the way, I use the Pen Fs very intensely (together with 2 em1s and a em10) because I do lots of theatre, classical music and wedding photography, and they are very reliable work horses, something you would not expect from such beauties.

The PEN-F was heavily reviewed. It's design piqued a LOT of interest from photography media.

It had 2 knocks against it:

1) The price was too high for the specs. The trendy, hipster (see the video ad and the packaging with its own Dolce & Gabbanna model printed on the box) marketing didn't help. It didn't look like a step up from the EPL/M-series and didn't look like a rangefinder alternative to the OM series entirely. The grip helped with the Pro/2.8 glass...they got that part right, but the lack of any grip made it not so comfortable to hold for the price. And no weather sealing and a lacklustre EVF. Not a real value camera.

2) The JPEG-centric color dial and Art and Scn filters came across as a feeble attempt to replace post-processing on third party devices. In doing so it alienated the same buyers at a price point who are RAW shooters almost exclusively. The overall design screamed "traditional rangefinder" or "street", while the software and color wheel yelled back "consumer grade".

Once again, I must admit I completely do not understand this anti art filter and anti colour dial mentality.
When the pen-f came out, there were so many people making negative comments (of varying intensity) regarding these things, that I actually thought:

‘good lord. Did Olympus disable the ability to shoot in raw if you use the front colour dial of the pen-f??????’

I actually asked that question on these forums, and was obviously told that of course you can shoot raw AND jpeg/art filter/colour dial.

The color dial was Japan Inc. trying to do in-camera, on a tiny, low res rear screen, what everyone does with a free app on a mobileOS device...and the latter does it 10x better and can share instantaneously.

Yes you can reconfigure, but the whole concept and labelling is Olympus practically begging you NOT to use your smartphone. It didn't work, was a waste of resources, confused the market, looked cheap (RAW snobbery), and came across as an unfocused (sic) design and marketing effort.

Most reviewers agreed.

Art filters etc. are a throwback to the pre-mobileOS days. They are essentially crappy apps resting on the already substandard camera OS, using resources better applied elsewhere.

Doug really...when I see this one dimensional reasoning it just drives me crazy....

Then again we see this type of thinking so often - example, the water pipe in the kitchen get a leak and spray water all over the kitchen. One person will focus on the pipe and will start a loosing battle with the pipe in an effort to stop the water. The other person will go outside and close the tap....

I agree to battle with the camera screen is a loosing battle. The good news is the previous Olympus editing software and today the way better or improved Workspace is the best place to go develop, test and fine tune your own unique color profiles. Workspace also enables the multi dimensional thinker to build an own library or even share profiles with others.....

So yes stepping out the kitchen will change your world and view of the Pen F....

For every 1 PC/Mac there are 7 mobileOS devices.

They account for the staggering majority of posted and generated images in the world.

If it's not mobileOS, it's not advancing dedicated camera sales. The desktop and even laptop "computer" metaphor is mostly dead.

As I said, the JPEG editing software on the phone is a lousy app sitting clunkily on a terrible device OS using an awful screen to attempt editing.

Editing on- or -in-camera is a dud process from the get-go. It's far less convenient, accessible, and qualitative than on dedicated computing and networked platforms. The ubiquity of mobileOS is where the market resides for capture, editing, and networking images. Dedicated optical cameras now only have a tiny fraction of the capture part of that equation. They suck at the editing part and are as bad at networking. The sole goal of all optical camera makers should be to get RAW or JPEG off camera...fast, and onto a dedicated computing device for editing and sharing, mobileOS as capable and prioritized as PC/Mac.

The PEN-F and E-PL ads were ridiculous as they pretended there wasn't even a networked much less smartphone world. Olympus advertising was already 10 years dated when the PEN-F was released and sadly, that marketing made its way into design.

And the PEN-F was cancelled. Compromises and costs cilled it.

I’m not trying to be combative (seriously), but I honestly don’t see how shooting in raw and jpeg with art filters applied (I usually bracket several of them) in camera is as you say, a dud process from the get go. Not how it is less convenient (???), accessible (???), and qualitative (I don’t understand what this word means in the context at all).

i take bracketed pics for instance, and whatever art filters and neutral, vivid whatever are applied instantly. If I want to get exact specific changes, I edit my raw files in the computer

i don’t understand how taking a ‘neutral’ (or vivid whatever) pic in camera then importing to my phone, then opening up the Olympus palette, then applying the art filter is in anyway quicker (or whatever adjective) than just importing the already applied art filter from the camera.

unless I’m missing something here

maybe you are saying the camera back is too low resolution to really see if it is a good pic, but the phone is????

Or are you saying that the transfer from the camera to the phone is klunky? I agree there. Cameras should have their own operating system that uses cellular and wifi to transmit to emails, messages, apps etc. I remember Samsung had an APSC camera lineup several years ago that attempted this, but nobody has moved on that since!

 UppercanadianAcadian's gear list:UppercanadianAcadian's gear list
Olympus PEN E-P5
UppercanadianAcadian Regular Member • Posts: 467
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F
2

Doug Janis wrote:

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

Wigelii wrote:

I experienced once more some excited reactions to the Pen F, last Sunday.

It is not the first time that this happens but this time it was extreme.

I was a whole day making pictures at a classical music event in a big and very busy cultural centre in Antwerp, using an em1 II and 2 PenF (1 silver, 1 black) and during the day a lot of people approached me to ask questions about the Pen F.

Some thought it was analog, a lot of them thought that it was something from Fujifilm, but everybody was raving about how beautiful the Pen Fs are.

When I told them that it were Olympus camera's, as always, they were all surprised and/or only vaguely knew Olympus.

This shows 2 things:

1. Fujifilm does a great job branding their camera's. When I first saw the Pen F, it was clear to me that this should be heavily marketed as a "must have" luxury item. Unfortunately Olympus never did.

2. Olympus shouldn't abandon the Pen F but reintroduce an updated, even more beautiful and design oriented, version

By the way, I use the Pen Fs very intensely (together with 2 em1s and a em10) because I do lots of theatre, classical music and wedding photography, and they are very reliable work horses, something you would not expect from such beauties.

The PEN-F was heavily reviewed. It's design piqued a LOT of interest from photography media.

It had 2 knocks against it:

1) The price was too high for the specs. The trendy, hipster (see the video ad and the packaging with its own Dolce & Gabbanna model printed on the box) marketing didn't help. It didn't look like a step up from the EPL/M-series and didn't look like a rangefinder alternative to the OM series entirely. The grip helped with the Pro/2.8 glass...they got that part right, but the lack of any grip made it not so comfortable to hold for the price. And no weather sealing and a lacklustre EVF. Not a real value camera.

2) The JPEG-centric color dial and Art and Scn filters came across as a feeble attempt to replace post-processing on third party devices. In doing so it alienated the same buyers at a price point who are RAW shooters almost exclusively. The overall design screamed "traditional rangefinder" or "street", while the software and color wheel yelled back "consumer grade".

Once again, I must admit I completely do not understand this anti art filter and anti colour dial mentality.
When the pen-f came out, there were so many people making negative comments (of varying intensity) regarding these things, that I actually thought:

‘good lord. Did Olympus disable the ability to shoot in raw if you use the front colour dial of the pen-f??????’

I actually asked that question on these forums, and was obviously told that of course you can shoot raw AND jpeg/art filter/colour dial.

The color dial was Japan Inc. trying to do in-camera, on a tiny, low res rear screen, what everyone does with a free app on a mobileOS device...and the latter does it 10x better and can share instantaneously.

Yes you can reconfigure, but the whole concept and labelling is Olympus practically begging you NOT to use your smartphone. It didn't work, was a waste of resources, confused the market, looked cheap (RAW snobbery), and came across as an unfocused (sic) design and marketing effort.

Most reviewers agreed.

Art filters etc. are a throwback to the pre-mobileOS days. They are essentially crappy apps resting on the already substandard camera OS, using resources better applied elsewhere.

This is an interesting view. It is not really instantaneous, or quicker at all, as you would have to transfer the original pic to the camera then open the app and modify it with whatever filter, and then you can send it off

with the art filter in camera, you send it to your camera through the app and share it already done

Plus if I remember correctly the app significantly downsizes the pictures which to me is ridiculous

The workflow you described has to be done anyway as pretty much the major gateway to all image networking now is done via mobile OS devices followed a distant second by PC/Macs.

Jane and Joe Consumer...the ones in the PEN-F ads, are likely far more nimble with mobileOS apps than any junk app or color dial on a dedicated camera. Literals, this was Olympus trying to reinvent the wheel.

The main flaw affecting the dedicated optical camera maker industry is an inability to transfer images onto mobileOS at the highest quality, quickly.

I was just at a café today and three grandmas were each with an iPad sharing photos of a trip they'd taken together. Over 70s very familiar with the workings of an iOS device, comfortable with organizing, sharing, and enjoying photos. That's the very function of a dedicated computer device, but not an optical camera. The PEN-F was a very naked attempt by Olympus to usurp that pattern and make the camera itself the editing device. The fact they actually engineered a dedicated control dial to do that speaks volumes about Olympus's misplaced understanding of the imaging market.

And it's probably a factor adding to the PEN-Fs cost and, ultimately, it's lack of market staying power. That's the shame, because the RF design is useful and has a place in m43.

Again I’m confused.

Are you saying that it is better to take a picture on the camera, transmit it to the phone, open up Olympus pallette app, apply the art filter, then send out versus take the picture in camera with art filter already applied, transmit to phone and then send out?

Also, you mention about transmission at the highest quality possible. My understanding is that any file transferred to the phone from the camera and edited in the Olympus pallette will be downsized, so why not edit it (apply the art filter) in camera to avoid this???

 UppercanadianAcadian's gear list:UppercanadianAcadian's gear list
Olympus PEN E-P5
Doug Janis Regular Member • Posts: 487
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F
1

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

Wigelii wrote:

I experienced once more some excited reactions to the Pen F, last Sunday.

It is not the first time that this happens but this time it was extreme.

I was a whole day making pictures at a classical music event in a big and very busy cultural centre in Antwerp, using an em1 II and 2 PenF (1 silver, 1 black) and during the day a lot of people approached me to ask questions about the Pen F.

Some thought it was analog, a lot of them thought that it was something from Fujifilm, but everybody was raving about how beautiful the Pen Fs are.

When I told them that it were Olympus camera's, as always, they were all surprised and/or only vaguely knew Olympus.

This shows 2 things:

1. Fujifilm does a great job branding their camera's. When I first saw the Pen F, it was clear to me that this should be heavily marketed as a "must have" luxury item. Unfortunately Olympus never did.

2. Olympus shouldn't abandon the Pen F but reintroduce an updated, even more beautiful and design oriented, version

By the way, I use the Pen Fs very intensely (together with 2 em1s and a em10) because I do lots of theatre, classical music and wedding photography, and they are very reliable work horses, something you would not expect from such beauties.

The PEN-F was heavily reviewed. It's design piqued a LOT of interest from photography media.

It had 2 knocks against it:

1) The price was too high for the specs. The trendy, hipster (see the video ad and the packaging with its own Dolce & Gabbanna model printed on the box) marketing didn't help. It didn't look like a step up from the EPL/M-series and didn't look like a rangefinder alternative to the OM series entirely. The grip helped with the Pro/2.8 glass...they got that part right, but the lack of any grip made it not so comfortable to hold for the price. And no weather sealing and a lacklustre EVF. Not a real value camera.

2) The JPEG-centric color dial and Art and Scn filters came across as a feeble attempt to replace post-processing on third party devices. In doing so it alienated the same buyers at a price point who are RAW shooters almost exclusively. The overall design screamed "traditional rangefinder" or "street", while the software and color wheel yelled back "consumer grade".

Once again, I must admit I completely do not understand this anti art filter and anti colour dial mentality.
When the pen-f came out, there were so many people making negative comments (of varying intensity) regarding these things, that I actually thought:

‘good lord. Did Olympus disable the ability to shoot in raw if you use the front colour dial of the pen-f??????’

I actually asked that question on these forums, and was obviously told that of course you can shoot raw AND jpeg/art filter/colour dial.

The color dial was Japan Inc. trying to do in-camera, on a tiny, low res rear screen, what everyone does with a free app on a mobileOS device...and the latter does it 10x better and can share instantaneously.

Yes you can reconfigure, but the whole concept and labelling is Olympus practically begging you NOT to use your smartphone. It didn't work, was a waste of resources, confused the market, looked cheap (RAW snobbery), and came across as an unfocused (sic) design and marketing effort.

Most reviewers agreed.

Art filters etc. are a throwback to the pre-mobileOS days. They are essentially crappy apps resting on the already substandard camera OS, using resources better applied elsewhere.

Doug really...when I see this one dimensional reasoning it just drives me crazy....

Then again we see this type of thinking so often - example, the water pipe in the kitchen get a leak and spray water all over the kitchen. One person will focus on the pipe and will start a loosing battle with the pipe in an effort to stop the water. The other person will go outside and close the tap....

I agree to battle with the camera screen is a loosing battle. The good news is the previous Olympus editing software and today the way better or improved Workspace is the best place to go develop, test and fine tune your own unique color profiles. Workspace also enables the multi dimensional thinker to build an own library or even share profiles with others.....

So yes stepping out the kitchen will change your world and view of the Pen F....

For every 1 PC/Mac there are 7 mobileOS devices.

They account for the staggering majority of posted and generated images in the world.

If it's not mobileOS, it's not advancing dedicated camera sales. The desktop and even laptop "computer" metaphor is mostly dead.

As I said, the JPEG editing software on the phone is a lousy app sitting clunkily on a terrible device OS using an awful screen to attempt editing.

Editing on- or -in-camera is a dud process from the get-go. It's far less convenient, accessible, and qualitative than on dedicated computing and networked platforms. The ubiquity of mobileOS is where the market resides for capture, editing, and networking images. Dedicated optical cameras now only have a tiny fraction of the capture part of that equation. They suck at the editing part and are as bad at networking. The sole goal of all optical camera makers should be to get RAW or JPEG off camera...fast, and onto a dedicated computing device for editing and sharing, mobileOS as capable and prioritized as PC/Mac.

The PEN-F and E-PL ads were ridiculous as they pretended there wasn't even a networked much less smartphone world. Olympus advertising was already 10 years dated when the PEN-F was released and sadly, that marketing made its way into design.

And the PEN-F was cancelled. Compromises and costs cilled it.

I’m not trying to be combative (seriously), but I honestly don’t see how shooting in raw and jpeg with art filters applied (I usually bracket several of them) in camera is as you say, a dud process from the get go. Not how it is less convenient (???), accessible (???), and qualitative (I don’t understand what this word means in the context at all).

i take bracketed pics for instance, and whatever art filters and neutral, vivid whatever are applied instantly. If I want to get exact specific changes, I edit my raw files in the computer

i don’t understand how taking a ‘neutral’ (or vivid whatever) pic in camera then importing to my phone, then opening up the Olympus palette, then applying the art filter is in anyway quicker (or whatever adjective) than just importing the already applied art filter from the camera.

unless I’m missing something here

maybe you are saying the camera back is too low resolution to really see if it is a good pic, but the phone is????

Or are you saying that the transfer from the camera to the phone is klunky? I agree there. Cameras should have their own operating system that uses cellular and wifi to transmit to emails, messages, apps etc. I remember Samsung had an APSC camera lineup several years ago that attempted this, but nobody has moved on that since!

The in-camera filters and post-processing are almost impossible to control qualitatively using the software and controls on the back of a camera, not to mention the poor rear screen compared to, say a Retina device. Also, the camera OS filters are limited compared to mobileOS options.

In-camera editing software is a throwback. But because it's a sunk cost tech, Olympus tried to claw but some usability and marketing from their development by fore fronting them in the PEN-F. They simply don't compete agains many free apps on mobileOSs. So buying a $1200 camera and then having the manufacturer push—in hardwired engineering by a front dial no less—what is effectively an image editing app that cannot compete against something from a smartphone app store, is design overkill and market miscalculation.

Those resources could have been applied elsewhere for far greater capture options or networking effect, like PDAF or Bluetooth. Yes, the Samsung NX was far ahead of its time. They "got" that the off-camera app and networking were the future, but Japan Inc. still doesn't get it.

Let me put it this way: There should be a dedicated, hardwired network button on an Olympus that sends the viewed image straight to mobileOS in RAW and/or JPEG. It should be click/send repeat, or even an automatic transfer.

The dominant viewing AND editing platform is, and will now forever be, mobileOS with the option of PC/Mac. It will never be the camera itself.

There persistent problem with the industry now is they STILL see their cameras as competitors to smartphones. Nope. Optical image making cameras are subservient.

If you've done tethered shooting you'll know exactly what I mean. Right now image transfer to mobileOS is still in the dial-up modem stage compared to the ethernet phase of tethering. There is far too much friction to get images onto mobileOS from almost any camera. This is major reason why the market is declining.

 Doug Janis's gear list:Doug Janis's gear list
Ricoh GR III Olympus E-M5 II Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 7-14mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro +3 more
Doug Janis Regular Member • Posts: 487
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

Wigelii wrote:

I experienced once more some excited reactions to the Pen F, last Sunday.

It is not the first time that this happens but this time it was extreme.

I was a whole day making pictures at a classical music event in a big and very busy cultural centre in Antwerp, using an em1 II and 2 PenF (1 silver, 1 black) and during the day a lot of people approached me to ask questions about the Pen F.

Some thought it was analog, a lot of them thought that it was something from Fujifilm, but everybody was raving about how beautiful the Pen Fs are.

When I told them that it were Olympus camera's, as always, they were all surprised and/or only vaguely knew Olympus.

This shows 2 things:

1. Fujifilm does a great job branding their camera's. When I first saw the Pen F, it was clear to me that this should be heavily marketed as a "must have" luxury item. Unfortunately Olympus never did.

2. Olympus shouldn't abandon the Pen F but reintroduce an updated, even more beautiful and design oriented, version

By the way, I use the Pen Fs very intensely (together with 2 em1s and a em10) because I do lots of theatre, classical music and wedding photography, and they are very reliable work horses, something you would not expect from such beauties.

The PEN-F was heavily reviewed. It's design piqued a LOT of interest from photography media.

It had 2 knocks against it:

1) The price was too high for the specs. The trendy, hipster (see the video ad and the packaging with its own Dolce & Gabbanna model printed on the box) marketing didn't help. It didn't look like a step up from the EPL/M-series and didn't look like a rangefinder alternative to the OM series entirely. The grip helped with the Pro/2.8 glass...they got that part right, but the lack of any grip made it not so comfortable to hold for the price. And no weather sealing and a lacklustre EVF. Not a real value camera.

2) The JPEG-centric color dial and Art and Scn filters came across as a feeble attempt to replace post-processing on third party devices. In doing so it alienated the same buyers at a price point who are RAW shooters almost exclusively. The overall design screamed "traditional rangefinder" or "street", while the software and color wheel yelled back "consumer grade".

Once again, I must admit I completely do not understand this anti art filter and anti colour dial mentality.
When the pen-f came out, there were so many people making negative comments (of varying intensity) regarding these things, that I actually thought:

‘good lord. Did Olympus disable the ability to shoot in raw if you use the front colour dial of the pen-f??????’

I actually asked that question on these forums, and was obviously told that of course you can shoot raw AND jpeg/art filter/colour dial.

The color dial was Japan Inc. trying to do in-camera, on a tiny, low res rear screen, what everyone does with a free app on a mobileOS device...and the latter does it 10x better and can share instantaneously.

Yes you can reconfigure, but the whole concept and labelling is Olympus practically begging you NOT to use your smartphone. It didn't work, was a waste of resources, confused the market, looked cheap (RAW snobbery), and came across as an unfocused (sic) design and marketing effort.

Most reviewers agreed.

Art filters etc. are a throwback to the pre-mobileOS days. They are essentially crappy apps resting on the already substandard camera OS, using resources better applied elsewhere.

This is an interesting view. It is not really instantaneous, or quicker at all, as you would have to transfer the original pic to the camera then open the app and modify it with whatever filter, and then you can send it off

with the art filter in camera, you send it to your camera through the app and share it already done

Plus if I remember correctly the app significantly downsizes the pictures which to me is ridiculous

The workflow you described has to be done anyway as pretty much the major gateway to all image networking now is done via mobile OS devices followed a distant second by PC/Macs.

Jane and Joe Consumer...the ones in the PEN-F ads, are likely far more nimble with mobileOS apps than any junk app or color dial on a dedicated camera. Literals, this was Olympus trying to reinvent the wheel.

The main flaw affecting the dedicated optical camera maker industry is an inability to transfer images onto mobileOS at the highest quality, quickly.

I was just at a café today and three grandmas were each with an iPad sharing photos of a trip they'd taken together. Over 70s very familiar with the workings of an iOS device, comfortable with organizing, sharing, and enjoying photos. That's the very function of a dedicated computer device, but not an optical camera. The PEN-F was a very naked attempt by Olympus to usurp that pattern and make the camera itself the editing device. The fact they actually engineered a dedicated control dial to do that speaks volumes about Olympus's misplaced understanding of the imaging market.

And it's probably a factor adding to the PEN-Fs cost and, ultimately, it's lack of market staying power. That's the shame, because the RF design is useful and has a place in m43.

Again I’m confused.

Are you saying that it is better to take a picture on the camera, transmit it to the phone, open up Olympus pallette app, apply the art filter, then send out versus take the picture in camera with art filter already applied, transmit to phone and then send out?

Also, you mention about transmission at the highest quality possible. My understanding is that any file transferred to the phone from the camera and edited in the Olympus pallette will be downsized, so why not edit it (apply the art filter) in camera to avoid this???

Watch the PEN-F ad.

https://youtu.be/lIKY2tzd6a8

At the 1:00 mark they dive into the Creative Dial with "The excitement of selecting film, shooting, developing, and printing - relive it all as you create the image you envisioned" and the further as they spend the next 30 seconds on those controls. Mid-ad, mid-story, those are emphasized, ahead of IBIS. Some serious combined engineering and marketing effort went into that.

Here's the marketing irony...after each shot they flash the image on the screen as a finished, shared product. But realistically the shared product would be through the other device that is not shown in the video...the smartphone, or tablet, or laptop. Even the YouTube ad would be seen on one of those devices as it is a 1:30 ad, so not for television broadcast.

Then the Olympus slogan flashes at the end with the logo: "Capture your stories".

Sure, it's an excellent capture device. But as an editing platform even at time of composition? Using the film and print metaphor? Really?

They use film era nostalgia (and a Gothic script...those clever Japanese) to sell the product as a complete film selection and end result product. The entire concept of the PEN-F was to pretend that the whole smartphone, mobileOS, and even digital undertaking are somehow the problem.

It positions the PEN-F as not needing any other editing or even sharing technology.

The PEN-F exemplifies all of the reasons why Japan Inc's photographic industry is struggling. The attempt to avoid the real world where people now 99% of the time capture, edit, and share on a smart device is not even addressed. They went an entirely different way as if to insist those non-Japan Inc. products and technologies aren't really even part of using a camera.

If you want to know why the camera industry is struggling against smartphones...this is why.

And all they really needed instead off the color wheel was a single, dedicated button for sending image to phone (or just send all images to phone). Even if they'd have put a Lightning SD card reader in the box, or equivalent for Android. That would have made the camera far more viable than the idea we can select film, compose, edit, and even print all through the EVF.

What a waste of resources and good design.

 Doug Janis's gear list:Doug Janis's gear list
Ricoh GR III Olympus E-M5 II Olympus E-M1 II Olympus 7-14mm F2.8 Pro Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro +3 more
acfo Regular Member • Posts: 445
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F
1

Doug Janis wrote:

The in-camera filters and post-processing are almost impossible to control qualitatively using the software and controls on the back of a camera, not to mention the poor rear screen compared to, say a Retina device. Also, the camera OS filters are limited compared to mobileOS options.

Much too fiddly if you have to put on reading glasses to see the retina device. Far easier to do through the evf once you are over 45. For the same reason I prefer dedicated hardware buttons to having manipulate menus on the back screen.

What I would like to see though is in camera support for OneDrive or similar cloud services.

 acfo's gear list:acfo's gear list
Olympus PEN-F Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 25mm F1.8 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 Olympus 14-150 F4-5.6 II Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II +5 more
JakeJY Senior Member • Posts: 3,725
Re: Well the good news is the Pen F line is NOT dead.....
1

VideoPic wrote:

When I started my blog one of the things I decided was not to do product reviews, there are enough review sites & videos on the web. That said with the EM5 MKIII and the positive reactions, critical reactions and then pure crap we saw in subsequent discussions I decided to do something on Olympus, their 100 year anniversary, Imaging department priorities and to link that to the new EM5 III.....

I started with basic research and as always were astonished to see how easy and quickly one debunk 95% of ALL the negative claims we see a few times a week on this forum.

One of those "popular negative" subjects (can't say comments as it's many) is the Pen-F and its generally claimed that the Pen-F is dead and has been discontinued.... One of the more ridiculous claims are Olympus are battling to get rid of their excess Pen-F stock??

Thing is one need to take the time and study the Olympus Imaging Dept product strategy, match that with statements Olympus make during interviews to create their product line future "picture"...

In some interviews Olympus directly states that the Pen F product line will continue, in other statements one read the existing product lines will continue. Nowhere did I find any direct mention by Olympus that they plan to stop or cancel the Pen F line....

Sorry to throw cold water, but that summary you linked was inaccurate. The actual interview as far less clear about which camera would have successors. PEN-F was mixed with the PEN line (which includes the E-PL line). We know for certain the PEN line would continue, we don't know if "PEN-F" will have a successor though. Also the wording used was sales "almost meet our expectation" meaning it was still below what Olympus expected.

Note DE is the interviewer Dave Etchells/Imaging Resource, SS is Shigemi Sugimoto of Olympus. Note that SS never responded directly if there would be a successor to PEN-F, it was only DE that suggested it (and only saying that there may be similar cameras as part of the line).

"DE: We are curious, how has the long-term response been to the PEN-F? Has it met expectations? It's somewhat oriented towards enthusiasts, but are enthusiasts more likely to pick an OM-D model? We're curious how that plays out. The PEN-F was announced back in 2016, so it's been a while. What do you think the future holds for that kind of product, for you?

SS: They are such important products for us, the recent line-up of the PEN, PL series and PEN-F. We are in line of the initial project plan. Capability is important, you know, but we think that how the product feels is also valuable. In that situation, we think that people can distinguish OM-D and PEN, and they won't compete with each other, even though there may be a small likeness in some parts of them.

From the user's point of view, there is no cannibalization, because the PEN-F itself is really unique, I think. Once they notice the product, I think no need to consider the OM-D. Totally different. We can separate the target users.

DE: Different users, different use cases. Yeah. There are some people that will gravitate towards the rangefinder style, a kind of classic design, as opposed to an OM-D.

SS: Yes. And the selling situation has almost meet our expectation.

DE: It is almost met. So that then is a part of the line that will continue in the future. I don't know what it will be called, but there will be other cameras like that. That's good to know; especially some people inside IR like the PEN-F very much. I think that's one of Dave Pardue's favorites. It's hard for us to tell sometimes, because we will like a particular camera - you know, it appeals to one or the other of us, but we never know, whether we represent its market, or if we're just some isolated, odd guys off in the lab or something. But yeah, the PEN F a very appealing camera.

SS: Thank you."

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2018/04/27/olympus-cpplus-2018-interview-strategy-imaging-business-shigemi-sugimoto

 JakeJY's gear list:JakeJY's gear list
Nikon Coolpix S9300 Nikon D5000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR +5 more
acfo Regular Member • Posts: 445
Re: Well the good news is the Pen F line is NOT dead.....

JakeJY wrote:

Sorry to throw cold water, but that summary you linked was inaccurate. The actual interview as far less clear about which camera would have successors. PEN-F was mixed with the PEN line (which includes the E-PL line). We know for certain the PEN line would continue, we don't know if "PEN-F" will have a successor though.

Its highly unlikely Olympus will not release a rangefinder style camera ever again. At the moment spec wise the Pen-F still sits somewhere between the em5.2 and em5.3 so I am not expecting a hardware update any time soon. But of course we don't know that for sure. Maybe the Pen-F II (Pen G, Pen EPL Pro whatever)  with the em5.3 innards is just around the corner.

 acfo's gear list:acfo's gear list
Olympus PEN-F Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 25mm F1.8 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 Olympus 14-150 F4-5.6 II Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II +5 more
VideoPic
VideoPic Senior Member • Posts: 1,857
I am stunned when I read something like this.....
3

The reasoning, the arguments....the Pen F the symbol for the complete Japanese industrial catastrophe.... unreal its like I will wake up from a bad dream reading the negative replies on this forum.....

If the creative dial was so bad an idea why on earth would Fuji copy the Pen F idea to give the photographer the option to tune monochrome images IN THE CAMERA with the new Fuji X-Pro 3?

The only difference is the OLD Olympus Pen F is still light years ahead of what Fuji is trying in this new camera.....

When will some of you guys learn the old style film camera - focus, expose, frame and press the shutter is NOT the only way doing photography...... hell some are using mobile phones to do photography....

-- hide signature --

See my Blog for general articles on the Olympus, Panasonic, Sony and other cameras.
https://myolympusomd.blogspot.com/
https://www.instagram.com/olympus_enthusiast/

 VideoPic's gear list:VideoPic's gear list
Olympus PEN-F Olympus E-M1 II Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 25mm F1.8 Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm F1.8 +4 more
cba_melbourne Senior Member • Posts: 1,511
Re: Well the good news is the Pen F line is NOT dead.....

acfo wrote:

JakeJY wrote:

Sorry to throw cold water, but that summary you linked was inaccurate. The actual interview as far less clear about which camera would have successors. PEN-F was mixed with the PEN line (which includes the E-PL line). We know for certain the PEN line would continue, we don't know if "PEN-F" will have a successor though.

Its highly unlikely Olympus will not release a rangefinder style camera ever again. At the moment spec wise the Pen-F still sits somewhere between the em5.2 and em5.3 so I am not expecting a hardware update any time soon. But of course we don't know that for sure. Maybe the Pen-F II (Pen G, Pen EPL Pro whatever) with the em5.3 innards is just around the corner.

"Rangefinder Camera" is not what defines the Pen-F. Another "rangefinder look" camera from Olympus is not necessarily a Pen-F successor. A Pen-F successor is not necessarily a "rangefinder look" camera.

What defines the Pen-F is it's superb design combined with a super-premium fit and finish. And yes, that magic innovative front wheel.

 cba_melbourne's gear list:cba_melbourne's gear list
Olympus PEN-F Olympus E-M5 II Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM5 Olympus 12-40mm F2.8 Pro +11 more
BurnImage
BurnImage Regular Member • Posts: 480
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F
5

Doug Janis wrote:

UppercanadianAcadian wrote:

Doug Janis wrote:

Wigelii wrote:

I experienced once more some excited reactions to the Pen F, last Sunday.

It is not the first time that this happens but this time it was extreme.

I was a whole day making pictures at a classical music event in a big and very busy cultural centre in Antwerp, using an em1 II and 2 PenF (1 silver, 1 black) and during the day a lot of people approached me to ask questions about the Pen F.

Some thought it was analog, a lot of them thought that it was something from Fujifilm, but everybody was raving about how beautiful the Pen Fs are.

When I told them that it were Olympus camera's, as always, they were all surprised and/or only vaguely knew Olympus.

This shows 2 things:

1. Fujifilm does a great job branding their camera's. When I first saw the Pen F, it was clear to me that this should be heavily marketed as a "must have" luxury item. Unfortunately Olympus never did.

2. Olympus shouldn't abandon the Pen F but reintroduce an updated, even more beautiful and design oriented, version

By the way, I use the Pen Fs very intensely (together with 2 em1s and a em10) because I do lots of theatre, classical music and wedding photography, and they are very reliable work horses, something you would not expect from such beauties.

The PEN-F was heavily reviewed. It's design piqued a LOT of interest from photography media.

It had 2 knocks against it:

1) The price was too high for the specs. The trendy, hipster (see the video ad and the packaging with its own Dolce & Gabbanna model printed on the box) marketing didn't help. It didn't look like a step up from the EPL/M-series and didn't look like a rangefinder alternative to the OM series entirely. The grip helped with the Pro/2.8 glass...they got that part right, but the lack of any grip made it not so comfortable to hold for the price. And no weather sealing and a lacklustre EVF. Not a real value camera.

2) The JPEG-centric color dial and Art and Scn filters came across as a feeble attempt to replace post-processing on third party devices. In doing so it alienated the same buyers at a price point who are RAW shooters almost exclusively. The overall design screamed "traditional rangefinder" or "street", while the software and color wheel yelled back "consumer grade".

Once again, I must admit I completely do not understand this anti art filter and anti colour dial mentality.
When the pen-f came out, there were so many people making negative comments (of varying intensity) regarding these things, that I actually thought:

‘good lord. Did Olympus disable the ability to shoot in raw if you use the front colour dial of the pen-f??????’

I actually asked that question on these forums, and was obviously told that of course you can shoot raw AND jpeg/art filter/colour dial.

The color dial was Japan Inc. trying to do in-camera, on a tiny, low res rear screen, what everyone does with a free app on a mobileOS device...and the latter does it 10x better and can share instantaneously.

Yes you can reconfigure, but the whole concept and labelling is Olympus practically begging you NOT to use your smartphone. It didn't work, was a waste of resources, confused the market, looked cheap (RAW snobbery), and came across as an unfocused (sic) design and marketing effort.

Most reviewers agreed.

Art filters etc. are a throwback to the pre-mobileOS days. They are essentially crappy apps resting on the already substandard camera OS, using resources better applied elsewhere.

Doug, that’s not how I see the Pen-F at all. I shot only Raw from about 2005 until now on my various cameras and still do on my EM1-2. 
When I got my Pen-F I instantly had a eureka moment and “got it” and it has nothing to do with smartphones or art filters (which are completely totally and utterly different from the creative dial). Once the penny dropped the Pen-F became my jpeg street and travel machine with pre processed images rather than post processed.

Using a combination of the creative dial and custom 1-4 I have 5 “films” preprogrammed. straight colour, Kodachrome, Velvia, high contrast B&W and mid contrast B&W. The B&W profiles are instantly changed further on the fly as I shoot with instant access to the B&W filters from the rear rocker control as I need. It really is like going back to shooting film and getting it right in camera. It’s awesome. 
 Not to be confused with art filters, totally different thing and I’ve never used them on my Pen-F or any other Olympus body.

I then import the images to my iPad Pro and I’m done, with the option of tweaks in Snapseed if I want. I do have Raw files too which backup to the cloud if I need them.

When I travel I don’t have the task of editing thousands of images when I get home, it’s forcing me to get it right in camera, just like film days and it seems to make me think more creatively.

Thats what a Pen-F is, a jpeg powerhouse “film” camera for the (usually) Raw only shooter.

Nothing to do with smart phones, art filters or any other such thing.

Maybe Olympus failed to market the message properly, maybe folk just didn’t get it, maybe folk are wedded to Raw and post processing........

....but those of us who do “get it” love it.

 BurnImage's gear list:BurnImage's gear list
Nikon Z6 Nikon Z 50mm F1.8 Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 Nikon Z 14-30mm F4
Peter Del Veteran Member • Posts: 5,825
Re: Beautiful unknown Pen F
2

That's why, yesterday, I bought another, new, Pen F. The C1-C4 is a boon.

Peter Del

 Peter Del's gear list:Peter Del's gear list
Olympus PEN-F Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm F4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 14-150mm 1:4-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko ED 75-300mm 1:4.8-6.7 II +5 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads