Ways to try gear.

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Michael Fryd
Michael Fryd Forum Pro • Posts: 12,323
Re: Ways to try gear.

pforsell wrote:

pcrc11 wrote:

pforsell wrote:

pcrc11 wrote:

riveredger wrote:

pcrc11 wrote:

scrup wrote:

buy from Amazon and return if its not what you expect.

No shame in doing it. Amazon will sell it through their warehouse as open box item. Someone will get a deal, you get to try a lens risk free.

So who eats the loss?? Not only is the retailer out the diminished value of the item but also out the shipping cost both ways. I know, who cares, it is Amazon, surely the biggest retailer in the world can absorb a few dollars without a hurt to their bottom line. However this type of behavior has also crept into all the other online selling platforms where you most likely are dealing with a small individual seller and not a faceless corporation.

This is the cost of doing business in today's world. Note that these companies are not paying for stores and all of the associsted costs.

Shoplifting was considered the "cost of doing business" when you had a brick and mortar store in "yesterdays world". A scumbag is a scumbag no matter how you want to justify it.

Going from testing an item into stealing it seems a bit of a stretch to me.

I wouldn't buy a car without test driving it first. I wouldn't buy a lens without test driving it first. I wouldn't buy a camera without test driving it first.

Because the mail order houses have killed off the brick and mortar stores which used to carry demo samples, the only way to test an item is to get it from the mail order house. And they voluntarily offer free test driving. Those stores that don't won't get my business.

I cannot see the "shoplifting" part in this business transaction between two consenting adults. It is the modern version of the age-old demo-sample try-before-you-buy business model.

The OP was not asking about a test drive. He wants to purchase, use it and return it for a refund and be out no money on his end. That is not a test drive.

I think it is, and fully sanctioned by the mail order house. Why else would they endorse and promote it? You think they do it just to annoy you? I think they do it to please me.

It is not unusual for a mail order house to re-assure customers by telling them to purchase the item they want, and if it turns out they are unhappy with the item, they can return it.

As a general rule, most people will keep the item, and the return rate will be low.

The assumption here is that the purchaser actually wants the item, but is not 100% sure.

This is not at all the same as someone using the vendor as a source of free rentals.  Nor is it the same as someone who is not sure how they feel about an item but wants to test it out to see.

Your "test drive" a car analogy is so far from this it is laughable. Go ask your local car dealer if you can purchase a car on Friday, drive it for the weekend and then bring it back on Monday for a full refund.

Every time I buy a new car my dealer not only lets me drive a demo car (see, local dealer not mail order) for a week. They deliver the demo to my doorstep and pick it up the week later. Similarly they also deliver the purchased vehicle to my house when it has been manufactured and shipped to my country.

Yes.  Car dealers frequently have vehicles designated as "loaners".   This is part of their marketing budget.  After serving time as a loaner, these cars are not sold as "new".

Is this arrangement of driving the demo cars and accepting home deliveries also shoplifting? I think not, it is just customer service. Not free, somebody always pays for it, but customer service nonetheless.

There's a difference between borrowing something intended to be a loaner, and borrowing something under the pretense that you actually want to buy it.

A local dealer let me have a loaner while they tried to find out why my car wasn't running right.  (it turned out to be a bad wire to a sensor).  I had the loaner for a few weeks.   I returned it when my car was fixed.

This was fine because everyone was upfront about the arrangement.  The dealership was well aware that I would be driving the loaner, and I would return when my car was repaired.

It would not be OK for me to have bought a new car when I dropped off the old one for repair, and then returned the new car when my old one was repaired.

The difference is that by buying a new car, I would have been making a representation that I intended to keep it.  That representation would have been false, as I intended to return the car.  That's an arrangement made on false representation.   There are moral and ethical issues with such an arrangement.

I expect similar level of customer service when I'm buying lenses and cameras, and thankfully the big mail order retailers provide just that. Happily and voluntarily. Win win.

You are entitled to expect whatever level of customer service you want.  Dealers are entitled to offer whatever level of customer service they want.

If the two overlap, that's a great thing.

However, if dealer does not offer a "loaner" service, then it seems a bit shady to try to twist a generous return policy into a loaner program.

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sportyaccordy Forum Pro • Posts: 15,836
Re: Ways to try gear.
1

CameraCarl wrote:

My personal ethics would preclude me from buying a lens that I didn't expect to keep.

Agreed. The camera industry has enough trouble as is.

-- hide signature --

Sometimes I take pictures with my gear- https://www.flickr.com/photos/41601371@N00/

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riveredger Veteran Member • Posts: 3,654
Re: Ways to try gear.

donaldsc wrote:

Put bluntly you are a sleazy crook. You remind me of the people who back in the day would buy a suit of clothes for the guest of honor at a funeral and then return the suit after the event was over. You should be ashamed of yourself. Did your mother raise you to behave that way.

The OP stated explicily that he does not buy with the intention of returning.  I think your comments are way out of line and judgemental.

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Pontoneer Veteran Member • Posts: 3,064
Re: Ways to try gear.

lobster roll wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

hawk15 wrote:

I was about to rent a lens for $100.

But then I thought I could also just buy and return.

I've rented before and ended up buying so I'm not just buying with 0 probability to keep.

Has anyone gotten into issues with renting via the buy-and-return method?

Just go into a shop and ask to see/try a demonstration model .

What is this shop you speak of?

Where I live , there are several specialist camera shops 25 miles away in Glasgow : Wex ( Calumet ) , Jessops , Merchant City cameras .

Then there are the chains : Currys/PC World , Costco , Argos ; department stores like John Lewis , larger branches of Tesco , Asda and others also sell cameras , but a limited range .

Such places are spread across the country .

Further afield there are specialist dealers such as SRS Microsystems , Park cameras , Carmarthen Cameras , Great Western Cameras , Ffordes Photographic - all of which I have bought mail order from but which are real camera shops you can go into .

There are many more in towns and villages up and down the country , many of which I've passed and looked in the windows of without buying .

The UK is one small country but we have HUNDREDS of camera shops .

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Pontoneer Veteran Member • Posts: 3,064
Re: Ways to try gear.

lobster roll wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

riveredger wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

hawk15 wrote:

I was about to rent a lens for $100.

But then I thought I could also just buy and return.

I've rented before and ended up buying so I'm not just buying with 0 probability to keep.

Has anyone gotten into issues with renting via the buy-and-return method?

Just go into a shop and ask to see/try a demonstration model .

And if said shop does not have it available?

there are other shops

NO THERE ARE NOT. The majority of the planet does not have brick and mortar stores left. How do you not know this?

OH YES THERE ARE .

As per my previous post , the UK is chock full of camera shops ; ditto pretty much every country in Europe . A couple of years back I tok a holiday in Tenerife - EVERY single street had at least one camera shop , in some streets the camera shops outnumbered other shops .

Go to the far east and you'll find the same thing - most big cities in Japan are the same , Hong Kong has plenty of camera shops .

How do you not know this ?

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Pontoneer Veteran Member • Posts: 3,064
Re: Ways to try gear.

pcrc11 wrote:

pforsell wrote:

pcrc11 wrote:

riveredger wrote:

pcrc11 wrote:

scrup wrote:

buy from Amazon and return if its not what you expect.

No shame in doing it. Amazon will sell it through their warehouse as open box item. Someone will get a deal, you get to try a lens risk free.

So who eats the loss?? Not only is the retailer out the diminished value of the item but also out the shipping cost both ways. I know, who cares, it is Amazon, surely the biggest retailer in the world can absorb a few dollars without a hurt to their bottom line. However this type of behavior has also crept into all the other online selling platforms where you most likely are dealing with a small individual seller and not a faceless corporation.

This is the cost of doing business in today's world. Note that these companies are not paying for stores and all of the associsted costs.

Shoplifting was considered the "cost of doing business" when you had a brick and mortar store in "yesterdays world". A scumbag is a scumbag no matter how you want to justify it.

Going from testing an item into stealing it seems a bit of a stretch to me.

I wouldn't buy a car without test driving it first. I wouldn't buy a lens without test driving it first. I wouldn't buy a camera without test driving it first.

Because the mail order houses have killed off the brick and mortar stores which used to carry demo samples, the only way to test an item is to get it from the mail order house. And they voluntarily offer free test driving. Those stores that don't won't get my business.

I cannot see the "shoplifting" part in this business transaction between two consenting adults. It is the modern version of the age-old demo-sample try-before-you-buy business model.

The OP was not asking about a test drive. He wants to purchase, use it and return it for a refund and be out no money on his end. That is not a test drive.

Your "test drive" a car analogy is so far from this it is laughable. Go ask your local car dealer if you can purchase a car on Friday, drive it for the weekend and then bring it back on Monday for a full refund.

Many car dealers do offer weekend long test drives , you just have to insure the car ; some even supply the fuel .

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Re: Ways to try gear.

Michael Fryd wrote:

riveredger wrote:

pcrc11 wrote:

riveredger wrote:

pcrc11 wrote:

scrup wrote:

buy from Amazon and return if its not what you expect.

No shame in doing it. Amazon will sell it through their warehouse as open box item. Someone will get a deal, you get to try a lens risk free.

So who eats the loss?? Not only is the retailer out the diminished value of the item but also out the shipping cost both ways. I know, who cares, it is Amazon, surely the biggest retailer in the world can absorb a few dollars without a hurt to their bottom line. However this type of behavior has also crept into all the other online selling platforms where you most likely are dealing with a small individual seller and not a faceless corporation.

This is the cost of doing business in today's world. Note that these companies are not paying for stores and all of the associsted costs.

Shoplifting was considered the "cost of doing business" when you had a brick and mortar store in "yesterdays world". A scumbag is a scumbag no matter how you want to justify it.

The entire commerce model has changed . If retailers do not have stores with demo models, how can a consumer know if a priduct meets her needs before buying it? One cannot rely on the marketing materials from manufacturers, which claim every feature is amazing. Shoplifting is theft. Returns are policy.

There's a question of intent. Did you buy the product with the expectation of keeping it, or were you simply looking for a free rental?

Consider a photographer in a big city. He only shoots on weekends. Instead of buying a camera to keep, each Friday he goes to a different store, and purchases the same model camera, uses it all weekend, and then returns it on Monday. If there are enough camera stores around (and this includes "big box" stores that carry cameras) he never has to buy a camera.

Is this a reasonable/moral thing to do?

====

If there are no physical stores in your area, and you are picky about what model camera you buy, then you should do a bit of research. Don't simply trust marketing materials, actually download the manual for the camera to see how the features are actually supposed to work. Read online reviews from others who actually have the camera.

Then, if it seems that it's the right camera for you, order it. If after opening the package you discover some unforeseen issue, then return the camera.

However, buying and returning cameras as a way of renting them is an abuse of the system.

Some people start their evaluation by buying a camera as their first step in the evaluation process. I think this is an abuse of the system. Do some research first. Don't buy the camera until you have determined that there is a reasonable chance that you will keep it.

====

Personally, I read reviews and manuals. If I have friends with the gear, I ask them about their experiences and see if I can borrow it. I'm a CPS member, so if it's Canon gear, they will loan it to me. I am fortunate enough to have local camera stores where I can go and hold the camera in my hand. By the time I purchase the camera, there's a really good chance I am going to keep it.

I can only think of one item I've ever bought and returned - it was a used lens which had more wear in the spirals than I was prepared to accept , to the point the front elements could be wobbled from side to side ; I returned it without it being questioned and ended up buying a more costly lens from the same dealer .

There have been a few things down the years I've bought , sometimes in person over a counter , then slowly realised they were not for me ; my remedy was always to sell the item on and then buy something else - I wouldn't dream of trying to return something that wasn't faulty .

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Pontoneer Veteran Member • Posts: 3,064
Re: Ways to try gear.

riveredger wrote:

lobster roll wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

riveredger wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

hawk15 wrote:

I was about to rent a lens for $100.

But then I thought I could also just buy and return.

I've rented before and ended up buying so I'm not just buying with 0 probability to keep.

Has anyone gotten into issues with renting via the buy-and-return method?

Just go into a shop and ask to see/try a demonstration model .

And if said shop does not have it available?

there are other shops

NO THERE ARE NOT. The majority of the planet does not have brick and mortar stores left. How do you not know this?

Exactly.

Wrong !

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Pontoneer Veteran Member • Posts: 3,064
Re: Buy used/sell used

tkbslc wrote:

I just buy used stuff, try it out for as long as I want, and then sell it again, used, if it isn't working out. If you are patient and wait for a good deal, then it can cost less than 10% overall after resale. Sometimes I've even profited, but that's a rarity.

I'd still only recommend it if you think it is something you want long term. Buying with the intent to keep, but knowing you can come close to breaking even if it doesn't end up fitting your needs.

Many times I've had lenses for a year that I've sold for what I paid, so the only cost for a year's "rental" was $15 shipping plus a paypal fee...

Exactly , and if you do it well you can even make money at it .

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Re: me, too

mamallama wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

riveredger wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

mamallama wrote:

jrtrent wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

hawk15 wrote:

I was about to rent a lens for $100.

But then I thought I could also just buy and return.

I've rented before and ended up buying so I'm not just buying with 0 probability to keep.

Has anyone gotten into issues with renting via the buy-and-return method?

Just go into a shop and ask to see/try a demonstration model .

I'm fortunate to have a dealer who is happy to let customers take floor samples out of the store to try outdoors for a while. I haven't had to resort to renting something to see if I'd like it.

And the dealer then sells it as new to someone else if you decide not to buy it?

Why not ?

A display item is still new ( not secondhand ) , unless it has been sold/returned .

True. Never sold at retail but it is not new and unused. I guess people who go to dealers and take the item out for a test drive should not complain when they get a new camera from B&H that has smudge marks on the LCD screen and a shutter count of 300.

When I ran my hi-fi shop , we ALWAYS sold the display model ; the one that the customer had seen/heard working : we knew it was in good order when it left the shop and this eliminated claims of it being faulty or damaged when they got home ; indeed with many items we would deliver and set up free .

If , rarely , a customer insisted on a new , unopened boxed item , it was always opened and tested in front of them - NOTHING LEFT THE SHOP WITHOUT BEING CHECKED .

I have no problem with display items which , legally , are still NEW .

If something has smudge marks they haven’t bothered to clean it ; I’d also consider 300 clicks excessive, but 10 or 20 , consistent with checking and perhaps showing to a couple of customers before the third one saw it , perfectly acceptable .

If an item is boxed back up properly , you as a customer would have no way of telling .

Which makes it deceitful.

Not at all : the item still IS new .

That's questionable. How do you define new? If the shop owner uses the item for a couple of weeks but never has sold it to a customer, would it still be considered new

In any case it is definitely not brand-new which is defined as conspicuously new and unused.

Of course it is new , as opposed to used or second hand , which is the same thing .

A ‘brand-new’ item can still be opened and tested or have been on display .

Most brand new cars will have either sat in a showroom for some time and/or sat in a field , perhaps for months , awaiting delivery to a dealer .

Even your ‘brand new’ camera may have been manufactured some months ago ; it may have sat in an exporters warehouse , before being shipped hafway round the world , then it may have sat in an importers warehouse before being ordered by a dealer , who might keep it in their stockroom , or put it in their shop window before it is finally sold .

None of these things stops it being ‘new’ .

You are stretching definition: .new and brand-new have different meanings.

Not to me they don't

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mamallama
mamallama Forum Pro • Posts: 56,706
Re: me, too
1

Pontoneer wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

riveredger wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

mamallama wrote:

jrtrent wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

hawk15 wrote:

I was about to rent a lens for $100.

But then I thought I could also just buy and return.

I've rented before and ended up buying so I'm not just buying with 0 probability to keep.

Has anyone gotten into issues with renting via the buy-and-return method?

Just go into a shop and ask to see/try a demonstration model .

I'm fortunate to have a dealer who is happy to let customers take floor samples out of the store to try outdoors for a while. I haven't had to resort to renting something to see if I'd like it.

And the dealer then sells it as new to someone else if you decide not to buy it?

Why not ?

A display item is still new ( not secondhand ) , unless it has been sold/returned .

True. Never sold at retail but it is not new and unused. I guess people who go to dealers and take the item out for a test drive should not complain when they get a new camera from B&H that has smudge marks on the LCD screen and a shutter count of 300.

When I ran my hi-fi shop , we ALWAYS sold the display model ; the one that the customer had seen/heard working : we knew it was in good order when it left the shop and this eliminated claims of it being faulty or damaged when they got home ; indeed with many items we would deliver and set up free .

If , rarely , a customer insisted on a new , unopened boxed item , it was always opened and tested in front of them - NOTHING LEFT THE SHOP WITHOUT BEING CHECKED .

I have no problem with display items which , legally , are still NEW .

If something has smudge marks they haven’t bothered to clean it ; I’d also consider 300 clicks excessive, but 10 or 20 , consistent with checking and perhaps showing to a couple of customers before the third one saw it , perfectly acceptable .

If an item is boxed back up properly , you as a customer would have no way of telling .

Which makes it deceitful.

Not at all : the item still IS new .

That's questionable. How do you define new? If the shop owner uses the item for a couple of weeks but never has sold it to a customer, would it still be considered new

In any case it is definitely not brand-new which is defined as conspicuously new and unused.

Of course it is new , as opposed to used or second hand , which is the same thing .

A ‘brand-new’ item can still be opened and tested or have been on display .

Most brand new cars will have either sat in a showroom for some time and/or sat in a field , perhaps for months , awaiting delivery to a dealer .

Even your ‘brand new’ camera may have been manufactured some months ago ; it may have sat in an exporters warehouse , before being shipped hafway round the world , then it may have sat in an importers warehouse before being ordered by a dealer , who might keep it in their stockroom , or put it in their shop window before it is finally sold .

None of these things stops it being ‘new’ .

You are stretching definition: .new and brand-new have different meanings.

Not to me they don't

Some people live in their own universe. The rest of us live with each other.

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pcrc11 Regular Member • Posts: 436
Re: Ways to try gear.
3

Pontoneer wrote:

Many car dealers do offer weekend long test drives , you just have to insure the car ; some even supply the fuel .

You are completely missing the point. OP was not talking about borrowing, test driving or anything else other than PURCHASING and returning in order to try it out. There is not a car dealer on the planet that would allow you to PURCHASE a vehicle, drive it for a week, a day or even off the lot and then return it for a full refund.

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Pontoneer Veteran Member • Posts: 3,064
Re: Ways to try gear.

pcrc11 wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

Many car dealers do offer weekend long test drives , you just have to insure the car ; some even supply the fuel .

You are completely missing the point. OP was not talking about borrowing, test driving or anything else other than PURCHASING and returning in order to try it out. There is not a car dealer on the planet that would allow you to PURCHASE a vehicle, drive it for a week, a day or even off the lot and then return it for a full refund.

No he wasn't , but if you care to read back , I was responding directly to YOUR post :

"Your "test drive" a car analogy is so far from this it is laughable. Go ask your local car dealer if you can purchase a car on Friday, drive it for the weekend and then bring it back on Monday for a full refund."

And to that point it is entirely pertinent .

Besides , another contributor also stated that his car dealer routinely gives him week long test drives .

Oh , and when I ran my videography business , a dealer I bought a lot of kit from used to quite happily lend me camcorders , VCRs and many other items to try out - he trusted me to return the stuff in the same condition it was given out in , and of course I only borrowed things I could afford to pay for if I damaged them , or if I decided to keep them , which I sometimes did ( and he knew there was a reasonable chance of making a sale out of lending me things ) .

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Pontoneer Veteran Member • Posts: 3,064
Re: me, too
1

mamallama wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

riveredger wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

mamallama wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

mamallama wrote:

jrtrent wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

hawk15 wrote:

I was about to rent a lens for $100.

But then I thought I could also just buy and return.

I've rented before and ended up buying so I'm not just buying with 0 probability to keep.

Has anyone gotten into issues with renting via the buy-and-return method?

Just go into a shop and ask to see/try a demonstration model .

I'm fortunate to have a dealer who is happy to let customers take floor samples out of the store to try outdoors for a while. I haven't had to resort to renting something to see if I'd like it.

And the dealer then sells it as new to someone else if you decide not to buy it?

Why not ?

A display item is still new ( not secondhand ) , unless it has been sold/returned .

True. Never sold at retail but it is not new and unused. I guess people who go to dealers and take the item out for a test drive should not complain when they get a new camera from B&H that has smudge marks on the LCD screen and a shutter count of 300.

When I ran my hi-fi shop , we ALWAYS sold the display model ; the one that the customer had seen/heard working : we knew it was in good order when it left the shop and this eliminated claims of it being faulty or damaged when they got home ; indeed with many items we would deliver and set up free .

If , rarely , a customer insisted on a new , unopened boxed item , it was always opened and tested in front of them - NOTHING LEFT THE SHOP WITHOUT BEING CHECKED .

I have no problem with display items which , legally , are still NEW .

If something has smudge marks they haven’t bothered to clean it ; I’d also consider 300 clicks excessive, but 10 or 20 , consistent with checking and perhaps showing to a couple of customers before the third one saw it , perfectly acceptable .

If an item is boxed back up properly , you as a customer would have no way of telling .

Which makes it deceitful.

Not at all : the item still IS new .

That's questionable. How do you define new? If the shop owner uses the item for a couple of weeks but never has sold it to a customer, would it still be considered new

In any case it is definitely not brand-new which is defined as conspicuously new and unused.

Of course it is new , as opposed to used or second hand , which is the same thing .

A ‘brand-new’ item can still be opened and tested or have been on display .

Most brand new cars will have either sat in a showroom for some time and/or sat in a field , perhaps for months , awaiting delivery to a dealer .

Even your ‘brand new’ camera may have been manufactured some months ago ; it may have sat in an exporters warehouse , before being shipped hafway round the world , then it may have sat in an importers warehouse before being ordered by a dealer , who might keep it in their stockroom , or put it in their shop window before it is finally sold .

None of these things stops it being ‘new’ .

You are stretching definition: .new and brand-new have different meanings.

Not to me they don't

Some people live in their own universe. The rest of us live with each other.

Something is either new , or it is second hand / pre owned . thats all there is to it .

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Michael Fryd
Michael Fryd Forum Pro • Posts: 12,323
Re: Ways to try gear.

pcrc11 wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

...

You are completely missing the point. OP was not talking about borrowing, test driving or anything else other than PURCHASING and returning in order to try it out....

I guess we interpreted the OP a little differently.

To me, it seemed he wanted to rent a lens.  However, he realized that he could save some money by buying the lens, and then returning it.

He wanted to justify this by pointing out that on at least one previous occasion, he has ended up buying something he rented, and therefore there is a non-zero chance he might decide to keep the lens.

I certainly got the impression that his intention was not to keep the lens (although there was a possibility he could change his mind).

His actual question was about what sort of issues he might run into by using the buy/return method of renting for free, rather than an actual paid rental.

The issues that have been mentioned include:

  • Many stores track returns, and will refuse further sales to, or revoke the return privileges of, customers with lots of returns.
  • Some people consider the practice to be less than ethical, and therefore the OP may receive negative comments from peers.
  • Such behavior raises the cost to stores, and causes prices for everyone to go up.  Thus others end up paying for the rental.  Some people consider this to be anti-social behavior.
  • It's possible that something could happen which would prevent the return of the lens (perhaps cosmetic damage to the barrel), thus preventing the OP from getting his desired refund when he tries to return the lens.

To be fair, some have suggested the practice is perfectly OK.  After all, the store sets a policy.  It's the store's problem if you use their policy in a way other than what they intended.

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pcrc11 Regular Member • Posts: 436
Re: Ways to try gear.

Michael Fryd wrote:

After all, the store sets a policy. It's the store's problem if you use their policy in a way other than what they intended.

You are 100% correct.

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pcrc11 Regular Member • Posts: 436
Re: Ways to try gear.

Pontoneer wrote:

pcrc11 wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

Many car dealers do offer weekend long test drives , you just have to insure the car ; some even supply the fuel .

You are completely missing the point. OP was not talking about borrowing, test driving or anything else other than PURCHASING and returning in order to try it out. There is not a car dealer on the planet that would allow you to PURCHASE a vehicle, drive it for a week, a day or even off the lot and then return it for a full refund.

No he wasn't , but if you care to read back , I was responding directly to YOUR post :

"Your "test drive" a car analogy is so far from this it is laughable. Go ask your local car dealer if you can purchase a car on Friday, drive it for the weekend and then bring it back on Monday for a full refund."

And to that point it is entirely pertinent .

Besides , another contributor also stated that his car dealer routinely gives him week long test drives .

Oh , and when I ran my videography business , a dealer I bought a lot of kit from used to quite happily lend me camcorders , VCRs and many other items to try out - he trusted me to return the stuff in the same condition it was given out in , and of course I only borrowed things I could afford to pay for if I damaged them , or if I decided to keep them , which I sometimes did ( and he knew there was a reasonable chance of making a sale out of lending me things ) .

Justify it however you want. As this practice of "buying and return" in order to get a free rental becomes more pervasive they will put an end to it one way or the other as it affects their bottom lines. The big boys have already caught on. Amazon has already started tracking and removing users who are serial returners and ebay has started a program to reimburse sellers for shipping and allowing restocking costs for items bought in "new" condition and then being returned in used condition.

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Michael Fryd
Michael Fryd Forum Pro • Posts: 12,323
Re: Ways to try gear.
2

pcrc11 wrote:

Michael Fryd wrote:

After all, the store sets a policy. It's the store's problem if you use their policy in a way other than what they intended.

You are 100% correct.

It's like a next to a cash register with a "Take a penny, leave a penny" sign.

The store's policy is that you can leave pennies there or take them. Therefore it's perfectly OK to take all the pennies. Such behavior may be against the spirit of the rule, but may not be against the letter of the rule.

The Paul C. Buff company offers a 60-Day Absolute Satisfaction Guarantee.  Why not order a complete lighting set every 45 days, and return the old one when the new one arrives.   You can have a full lighting set for many years, for only the cost of shipping.   Even better, your gear is always under warranty, and you don't have to worry about it wearing out from old age.  You may even be doing enough shipping to get a discounted rate.   While such behavior may be against the spirit of the policy, it certainly is within the letter of the policy.

What we are talking about is whether our behavior should be limited only by the letter of the law, or whether there should be moral or social constraints on our actions?

As you walk down the street, it is usually legally to insult everyone you pass, call them names, question their intelligence, and make fun of their fashion sense.  The fact that this behavior is allowed by the rules does not mean that it is acceptable to behave in that fashion.

During times of drought,  our local water department will sometimes ask us to conserve water.  The initial request is usually voluntary.  After such a request it would be legal for me to run my sprinklers 24 hours a day, however that doesn't mean it would be right for me to do so.

Many stores offer a generous return policy for those who intend to buy a product, but are not 100% sure that it's right for them.  The policy is not intended to be used by those who have little or no intent to keep the product.

Yes, under the letter of the policy, people can use it for free rentals, however that doesn't mean it is right to do so.

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pcrc11 Regular Member • Posts: 436
Re: Ways to try gear.

Michael Fryd wrote:

pcrc11 wrote:

Michael Fryd wrote:

After all, the store sets a policy. It's the store's problem if you use their policy in a way other than what they intended.

You are 100% correct.

The Paul C. Buff company offers a 60-Day Absolute Satisfaction Guarantee. Why not order a complete lighting set every 45 days, and return the old one when the new one arrives. You can have a full lighting set for many years, for only the cost of shipping.

Dont give them any ideas. Seems like there are quite a few right here on this forum that would be more than willing to take advantage of great deal like that.

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riveredger Veteran Member • Posts: 3,654
Re: Ways to try gear.

Pontoneer wrote:

lobster roll wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

riveredger wrote:

Pontoneer wrote:

hawk15 wrote:

I was about to rent a lens for $100.

But then I thought I could also just buy and return.

I've rented before and ended up buying so I'm not just buying with 0 probability to keep.

Has anyone gotten into issues with renting via the buy-and-return method?

Just go into a shop and ask to see/try a demonstration model .

And if said shop does not have it available?

there are other shops

NO THERE ARE NOT. The majority of the planet does not have brick and mortar stores left. How do you not know this?

OH YES THERE ARE .

As per my previous post , the UK is chock full of camera shops ; ditto pretty much every country in Europe . A couple of years back I tok a holiday in Tenerife - EVERY single street had at least one camera shop , in some streets the camera shops outnumbered other shops .

Go to the far east and you'll find the same thing - most big cities in Japan are the same , Hong Kong has plenty of camera shops .

How do you not know this ?

Consider yourself lucky.  I have not seen one city in the US with a camera shop on every block (it is actually almost comical that you think this is the case).  Most towns do not even have camera shops.  Does this change your thoughts on how we should all run down to the local store?

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