What's all this talk about plastic bodies?

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Vorchek Regular Member • Posts: 100
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?

That is an interesting point about the bottom plate and the tripod. Little things like that can matter.

Despite all that has been said, I'm still not clear on how precisely the III differs from the II in body composition. Is it a difference in kind or degree? Or utterly trivial?  Pictures like those earlier in this discussion, only comparing the III and II, would surely reveal plenty.

I read all the specs at four-thirds.org without receiving enlightenment.

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dinoSnake Veteran Member • Posts: 3,399
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?

Brian Wadie wrote:

" I believe this is the point of discussion and concern for the camera owners: you can dent some metal cameras and you'll still have a camera, while the composite material will shatter but possibly at a higher failure point."

by which time the impact forces will be such that internal components and probably the lens mount / lens will have failed

Quite possible, depends upon the impact point, especially with modern digital mirrorless  designs.  The "pentaprism" housing inirrorless cameras is anything but of course, a stylistically chosen cover for an area filled with a digital display.  Corners have always been vulnerable but no longer contain winding mechanisms, just encoders and switches.

Stephane SHG
Stephane SHG Forum Member • Posts: 77
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?
4

You see, in the past Olympus was very proud in releasing pictures of the metal chassis and metal top covers of their cameras. They did that for good reason, because they know metal means superior quality and durability as well as look and feel. It does cost more, to manufacture an all metal chassis that is strong yet lightweight.

Many customers simply perceive metal as more premium. Be it in camera bodies, in pro lenses, in watches, in jewellery.... And they like the feel of better too. To some it even makes a difference, if a dial wheel is made of solid metal with a sharp diamond knurling, or just a thin metal outer over a plastic core.

Have you already forgotten pictures like these? In many people, these did influence purchase decisions.

PEN-F top plate, before and after finishing – ©2016 Senzo

Magnesium alloy body panel of the PEN-F – ©2016 Senzo

EM1

Reported for PORN.

dinoSnake Veteran Member • Posts: 3,399
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?
2

Brian Wadie wrote:

you may find this and other such papers interesting:

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:8573/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Thank you most kindly, an interesting yet disturbing read when applied to aeronautics.  In a nutshell: they are working on better theoretical models for testing failure modes on composites but by their own admittance cannot create better real world testing for failure modes, and call for development of better damage assessment but do not really give ideas on what that might entail.  So extremely conservative design parameters rule the day.

Brian Wadie
Brian Wadie Veteran Member • Posts: 9,847
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?
1

dinoSnake wrote:

Brian Wadie wrote:

you may find this and other such papers interesting:

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:8573/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Thank you most kindly, an interesting yet disturbing read when applied to aeronautics. In a nutshell: they are working on better theoretical models for testing failure modes on composites but by their own admittance cannot create better real world testing for failure modes, and call for development of better damage assessment but do not really give ideas on what that might entail. So extremely conservative design parameters rule the day.

back in the '80's I spent a few years studying composite failure mechanisms, from the microscopic up to looking for better failure detection methods.

With fatigue failure there was a theoretical stress limit which if kept below, the composite should have infinite life cycles before failure.

As I've been retired for >20 years I don't know if this is still valid but from a scientific point of view it was heck of a fascinating field to work in (I started the late '50s measuring the shape and size of macromolecules in polymers and worked up to full scale composite structures toward the end of my work - one hell of a ride and I got paid for it! )

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Ruairi
Ruairi Regular Member • Posts: 341
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?

Bernard de Clairvaux wrote:

Helen,

Many thanks for taking the time to write this up.

:). Well designed and lmplemented plastic parts are fine.

Remember the Pentax 10D or 20D Polycarbonate weather sealed body that had the issue of developing cracks along the edges of the c'sunk holes.

Best Regards, Bernard

metal is nice. Maybe that’s an old fashioned view. The HK MP5 is polycarbonate, and it handles beautifully.

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NCV
NCV Veteran Member • Posts: 9,769
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?

Brian Wadie wrote:

Donald B wrote:

pretty much sums it up. All the other companies are real worried about Olympus. Hense all the sales reps trolling the m43 forums.

Don

I sometimes wonder if people realise that a lot of the aircraft they fly in on holiday have "plastic bodies" likewise much of modern cars and boats (and flack jackets, bullet proof glass etc) that are essentials of our every day life

As one who spent a career researching polymeric materials so that we could better understand how to design them to meet the demanding needs of many and various uses I sometimes wonder at the ignorance of the self-proclaimed "experts" who pontificate on and denigrate the use of such materials in modern camera bodies

Yes, "plastic" covers a huge spectrum of materials with a mind boggling array of properties.

We could even say that Lewis Hamilton races in a "plastic" car when he drives his CFRP bodied Mercedes when he does battle with Vettel a in his "plastic" Ferrari.

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James Stirling
James Stirling Senior Member • Posts: 5,884
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?
2

Donald B wrote:

pretty much sums it up. All the other companies are real worried about Olympus. Hense all the sales reps trolling the m43 forums.

Don

It is their 2.8% share of the ILC market that has them all scared Seriously I doubt that Olympus gets even a cursory consideration by the rest of the market let alone them all being worried about what they do . Canon for example have 14.2x the market share of Olympus. I wonder if the Olympus diehard fanatics in this forum are paid by Olympus or just naturally delusional .

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Henry Falkner
Henry Falkner Forum Pro • Posts: 14,840
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?
4

All that is happening is, you get a lot of guys here who really want an E-M5 III, but can't afford one.

Sour Grapes.

Henry

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MrALLCAPS
MrALLCAPS Senior Member • Posts: 1,107
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?

Ruairi wrote:

Bernard de Clairvaux wrote:

Helen,

Many thanks for taking the time to write this up.

:). Well designed and lmplemented plastic parts are fine.

Remember the Pentax 10D or 20D Polycarbonate weather sealed body that had the issue of developing cracks along the edges of the c'sunk holes.

Best Regards, Bernard

metal is nice. Maybe that’s an old fashioned view. The HK MP5 is polycarbonate, and it handles beautifully.

You're trying to prove a point with plastics  between  a Camera and a Gun?

Wow...

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dinoSnake Veteran Member • Posts: 3,399
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?
1

Brian Wadie wrote:

dinoSnake wrote:

Brian Wadie wrote:

you may find this and other such papers interesting:

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:8573/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Thank you most kindly, an interesting yet disturbing read when applied to aeronautics. In a nutshell: they are working on better theoretical models for testing failure modes on composites but by their own admittance cannot create better real world testing for failure modes, and call for development of better damage assessment but do not really give ideas on what that might entail. So extremely conservative design parameters rule the day.

back in the '80's I spent a few years studying composite failure mechanisms, from the microscopic up to looking for better failure detection methods.

With fatigue failure there was a theoretical stress limit which if kept below, the composite should have infinite life cycles before failure.

As I've been retired for >20 years I don't know if this is still valid but from a scientific point of view it was heck of a fascinating field to work in (I started the late '50s measuring the shape and size of macromolecules in polymers and worked up to full scale composite structures toward the end of my work - one hell of a ride and I got paid for it! )

That sounds pretty amazing.  If my early life had greater opportunities I dreamed of becoming either an engineer or architect, but I can't complain as my technical interests have me into jobs with strong technical requirements (not often appreciated even as I fulfill them, sadly).  Still, a lifelong interest that I maintain to this day.

whumber
whumber Senior Member • Posts: 2,816
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?
1

Brian Wadie wrote:

dinoSnake wrote:

Brian Wadie wrote:

you may find this and other such papers interesting:

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:8573/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Thank you most kindly, an interesting yet disturbing read when applied to aeronautics. In a nutshell: they are working on better theoretical models for testing failure modes on composites but by their own admittance cannot create better real world testing for failure modes, and call for development of better damage assessment but do not really give ideas on what that might entail. So extremely conservative design parameters rule the day.

back in the '80's I spent a few years studying composite failure mechanisms, from the microscopic up to looking for better failure detection methods.

With fatigue failure there was a theoretical stress limit which if kept below, the composite should have infinite life cycles before failure.

The endurance limit is what you're thinking of. It's not unique to composites as many metals exhibit the same property, die-cast magnesium being one of them with an endurance limit of around 45MPa.

As I've been retired for >20 years I don't know if this is still valid but from a scientific point of view it was heck of a fascinating field to work in (I started the late '50s measuring the shape and size of macromolecules in polymers and worked up to full scale composite structures toward the end of my work - one hell of a ride and I got paid for it! )

The fundamental structures haven't changed much, most of what's changed in the last 20 years is better modeling of non-linear materials and much better tools for modeling complex layup schedules for composites.

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JaKing
JaKing Senior Member • Posts: 6,087
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?
1

James Stirling wrote:

Donald B wrote:

pretty much sums it up. All the other companies are real worried about Olympus. Hense all the sales reps trolling the m43 forums.

Don

It is their 2.8% share of the ILC market that has them all scared Seriously I doubt that Olympus gets even a cursory consideration by the rest of the market let alone them all being worried about what they do . Canon for example have 14.2x the market share of Olympus. I wonder if the Olympus diehard fanatics in this forum are paid by Olympus or just naturally delusional .

Or maybe their cameras (etc) just meet their needs, Jim ...

I am perfectly happy with all my Olympus gear. Could it be marginally better in some respects? Of course it could.

Like my cars, I expect them to do everything reasonably well. They do - both cars and cameras. I have little time for one trick ponies.

The keywords are 'marginally', 'everything' and 'reasonably' ... .

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Ruairi
Ruairi Regular Member • Posts: 341
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?
1

MrALLCAPS wrote:

Ruairi wrote:

Bernard de Clairvaux wrote:

Helen,

Many thanks for taking the time to write this up.

:). Well designed and lmplemented plastic parts are fine.

Remember the Pentax 10D or 20D Polycarbonate weather sealed body that had the issue of developing cracks along the edges of the c'sunk holes.

Best Regards, Bernard

metal is nice. Maybe that’s an old fashioned view. The HK MP5 is polycarbonate, and it handles beautifully.

You're trying to prove a point with plastics between a Camera and a Gun?

Wow...

Such wow. Polycarbonate, many strong.

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Androole Senior Member • Posts: 1,448
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?

MrALLCAPS wrote:

Ruairi wrote:

Bernard de Clairvaux wrote:

Helen,

Many thanks for taking the time to write this up.

:). Well designed and lmplemented plastic parts are fine.

Remember the Pentax 10D or 20D Polycarbonate weather sealed body that had the issue of developing cracks along the edges of the c'sunk holes.

Best Regards, Bernard

metal is nice. Maybe that’s an old fashioned view. The HK MP5 is polycarbonate, and it handles beautifully.

You're trying to prove a point with plastics between a Camera and a Gun?

Wow...

I mean, I suppose it's not relevant because the gun has infinitely more demanding mechanical stresses associated with its operation. Is that what you mean?

I.e. just because it's good enough for a camera, no way this material could be good enough for a gun?

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fstopx2 Senior Member • Posts: 1,024
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?

Ruairi wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

Ruairi wrote:

Bernard de Clairvaux wrote:

Helen,

Many thanks for taking the time to write this up.

:). Well designed and lmplemented plastic parts are fine.

Remember the Pentax 10D or 20D Polycarbonate weather sealed body that had the issue of developing cracks along the edges of the c'sunk holes.

Best Regards, Bernard

metal is nice. Maybe that’s an old fashioned view. The HK MP5 is polycarbonate, and it handles beautifully.

You're trying to prove a point with plastics between a Camera and a Gun?

Wow...

Such wow. Polycarbonate, many strong.

On the MP5 only the lower and furniture is polymer. The rest is formed sheet metal.

Ruairi
Ruairi Regular Member • Posts: 341
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?

fstopx2 wrote:

Ruairi wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

Ruairi wrote:

Bernard de Clairvaux wrote:

Helen,

Many thanks for taking the time to write this up.

:). Well designed and lmplemented plastic parts are fine.

Remember the Pentax 10D or 20D Polycarbonate weather sealed body that had the issue of developing cracks along the edges of the c'sunk holes.

Best Regards, Bernard

metal is nice. Maybe that’s an old fashioned view. The HK MP5 is polycarbonate, and it handles beautifully.

You're trying to prove a point with plastics between a Camera and a Gun?

Wow...

Such wow. Polycarbonate, many strong.

On the MP5 only the lower and furniture is polymer. The rest is formed sheet metal.

Yeah, the E-M5iii is a combination of metal and polymers. Not as premium as full metal, but proven  to take a beating.

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cpt kent Regular Member • Posts: 483
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?

You’ll never get me on one of those newfangled plastic planes. I read on the web they get softer as they get nearer the sun. 727 all the way for me.

Funny Valentine Forum Member • Posts: 78
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?
2

Ruairi wrote:

fstopx2 wrote:

Ruairi wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

Ruairi wrote:

Bernard de Clairvaux wrote:

Helen,

Many thanks for taking the time to write this up.

:). Well designed and lmplemented plastic parts are fine.

Remember the Pentax 10D or 20D Polycarbonate weather sealed body that had the issue of developing cracks along the edges of the c'sunk holes.

Best Regards, Bernard

metal is nice. Maybe that’s an old fashioned view. The HK MP5 is polycarbonate, and it handles beautifully.

You're trying to prove a point with plastics between a Camera and a Gun?

Wow...

Such wow. Polycarbonate, many strong.

On the MP5 only the lower and furniture is polymer. The rest is formed sheet metal.

Yeah, the E-M5iii is a combination of metal and polymers. Not as premium as full metal, but proven to take a beating.

Is there any test proving your point ? I'm interested in the tripod mount durability. Can it handle the body and the 40-150 pro attached only from the body's tripod mount ?

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Ruairi
Ruairi Regular Member • Posts: 341
Re: What's all this talk about plastic bodies?
1

Funny Valentine wrote:

Ruairi wrote:

fstopx2 wrote:

Ruairi wrote:

MrALLCAPS wrote:

Ruairi wrote:

Bernard de Clairvaux wrote:

Helen,

Many thanks for taking the time to write this up.

:). Well designed and lmplemented plastic parts are fine.

Remember the Pentax 10D or 20D Polycarbonate weather sealed body that had the issue of developing cracks along the edges of the c'sunk holes.

Best Regards, Bernard

metal is nice. Maybe that’s an old fashioned view. The HK MP5 is polycarbonate, and it handles beautifully.

You're trying to prove a point with plastics between a Camera and a Gun?

Wow...

Such wow. Polycarbonate, many strong.

On the MP5 only the lower and furniture is polymer. The rest is formed sheet metal.

Yeah, the E-M5iii is a combination of metal and polymers. Not as premium as full metal, but proven to take a beating.

Is there any test proving your point ? I'm interested in the tripod mount durability. Can it handle the body and the 40-150 pro attached only from the body's tripod mount ?

*polycarbonate is proven to take a beating.

If you are worried about your goods failing under normal use conditions, you are protected under the Consumer Rights Act 2015** that stipulates if a product is not fit for purpose, the vendor is obligated to replace, repair or refund you within 6 months of ownership.

**In the UK. Similar acts should be in place in your country, if not, please write to your political representative, or arrange a large, loud protest.

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