THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution

Started Oct 12, 2019 | Discussions
indra Regular Member • Posts: 366
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution Too Expensive? Nah
3

krikman wrote:

karlreed wrote:

I am electronics engineer who was trained on valves and transistors..

I cannot get used to the idea that systems that hold what would have been buildings full of hardware in the 1960's for a few hundred dollars in 2019 are expensive.

More than what I want to or will pay?

Sure.

But, not expensive!

Without IBIS, I'm not interested in Nikon DX-Z. As we speak an EM1.2 and lenses are a better choice.

I begun my career as radio ingeneer in late 1980-s and visited several semiconductor plants as a customer's representative. And I was surprised how cheep those low-integrity chips were just from production line, before they tested, and how much cost added by package, testing and qualifying. And besides excessive testing, production expences of 10 transistors on chip or million were almost the same.

Also I saw how profitable to exclude mechanical components from device, especially those that needed manual adjustments and assembly. Since that time I notice in every piece of equipment where and how manufacturers save its money by cutting down sheer number of components in their devices.

At first I was surprised why no IBIS in Z50, then I found only one reason for it - the Z50 designed for very low price, cutting down every costly components.

I have one point to make!

  • The beef many people have here is that they want Z7 functionalities like IBIS, 5" EVF, triple fully articulated screen bla bla and most important for the price around 200 dollars. I don't think they even have any Nikon gear.
 indra's gear list:indra's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F31fd Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro Nikon D2Hs Nikon D700 Nikon D300S +63 more
OP krikman Regular Member • Posts: 431
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution Too Expensive? Nah
1

indra wrote:

I have one point to make!

  • The beef many people have here is that they want Z7 functionalities like IBIS, 5" EVF, triple fully articulated screen bla bla and most important for the price around 200 dollars. I don't think they even have any Nikon gear.

You miss the point.

The people here have, use and love their Nikon gear. And because of using these cameras and lenses need regular renewal.

It may be done by many ways. Some ways are stright and clear, but others are cumbersome and wrong. Don't you regret buying wrong equipment in urgency just because of lack of information?

fpessolano
fpessolano Veteran Member • Posts: 3,858
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
1

In th e Benelux body plus both lenses is at 1150 euros, the lenses alone go for almost 800 …

 fpessolano's gear list:fpessolano's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS30 Nikon 1 V1 Nikon Z7 Fujifilm X-T3 Nikon Z50 +2 more
indra Regular Member • Posts: 366
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution Too Expensive? Nah
6

krikman wrote:

indra wrote:

I have one point to make!

  • The beef many people have here is that they want Z7 functionalities like IBIS, 5" EVF, triple fully articulated screen bla bla and most important for the price around 200 dollars. I don't think they even have any Nikon gear.

You miss the point.

The people here have, use and love their Nikon gear. And because of using these cameras and lenses need regular renewal.

It may be done by many ways. Some ways are stright and clear, but others are cumbersome and wrong. Don't you regret buying wrong equipment in urgency just because of lack of information?

Well, first let me say English is not my native language so don't mind my crooked grammar and vocabularies.

Second, Z50 is priced accordingly the segment he's suppose to compete in and his direct competitors are Sony A6400 and Fuji X-T30. I get tired of people screaming for IBIS while the direct competitors don't have that as well. They want everything but don't want to pay for those. That annoys me tbh.

Third, I can see what Nikon is doing. Of course they want you to use / migrate to their FF system as the big money is in there. Regular Joe buys a low end model with kit lens and that's it. You and me we buy what we need and more. Now imo it would be stupid of Nikon to focus on the low segment where there is hardly any profit. I want Nikon to keep existing as I'm happy with my Nikon gear.

Last, how so lack of information? I'd say If one is to invest lot money in something he better be do his research. If there is no / lack of information then don't, nobody is putting a gun to your head to make you spend your money isn't it?

 indra's gear list:indra's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F31fd Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro Nikon D2Hs Nikon D700 Nikon D300S +63 more
Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 20,300
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
1

fpessolano wrote:

In th e Benelux body plus both lenses is at 1150 euros, the lenses alone go for almost 800 …

With 20% sales tax UK around £1150 with both lenses https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Nikon/Nikon-Z-System-Cameras

Advertised prices in USA generally exclude taxes as these vary from City to City and State to State.

-- hide signature --

Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than anything else.

 Leonard Shepherd's gear list:Leonard Shepherd's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +28 more
karlreed Senior Member • Posts: 2,065
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution Too Expensive? Nah
1

indra wrote:

krikman wrote:

indra wrote:

I have one point to make!

  • The beef many people have here is that they want Z7 functionalities like IBIS, 5" EVF, triple fully articulated screen bla bla and most important for the price around 200 dollars. I don't think they even have any Nikon gear.

You miss the point.

The people here have, use and love their Nikon gear. And because of using these cameras and lenses need regular renewal.

It may be done by many ways. Some ways are stright and clear, but others are cumbersome and wrong. Don't you regret buying wrong equipment in urgency just because of lack of information?

Well, first let me say English is not my native language so don't mind my crooked grammar and vocabularies.

Second, Z50 is priced accordingly the segment he's suppose to compete in and his direct competitors are Sony A6400 and Fuji X-T30. I get tired of people screaming for IBIS while the direct competitors don't have that as well. They want everything but don't want to pay for those. That annoys me tbh.

Third, I can see what Nikon is doing. Of course they want you to use / migrate to their FF system as the big money is in there. Regular Joe buys a low end model with kit lens and that's it. You and me we buy what we need and more. Now imo it would be stupid of Nikon to focus on the low segment where there is hardly any profit. I want Nikon to keep existing as I'm happy with my Nikon gear.

Last, how so lack of information? I'd say If one is to invest lot money in something he better be do his research. If there is no / lack of information then don't, nobody is putting a gun to your head to make you spend your money isn't it?

Well, I use a D750 having come from a D700. The main problem I have is that the flash systems does nutty things compared to other cameras.

I am pretty happy with my D750 and 28-300mmVR. However, I was blown away by the IBIS and Lens IS on the Olympus EM1.2 +12-100mm.

I think the Z50 is well priced, however, without IBIS, it's not a lot of interest to me.

I have a feeling that my next camera will be a D500. That does what I want for the odd sports meeting, the D50 does not.

Regards

Karl

-- hide signature --

karl reed "let's change the tone-civility is in!"

 karlreed's gear list:karlreed's gear list
Sony RX100 IV Nikon D200 Nikon D750 Olympus E-M1 II Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED VR +6 more
eya1 Regular Member • Posts: 281
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution Too Expensive? Nah
2

karlreed wrote:

indra wrote:

krikman wrote:

indra wrote:

I have one point to make!

  • The beef many people have here is that they want Z7 functionalities like IBIS, 5" EVF, triple fully articulated screen bla bla and most important for the price around 200 dollars. I don't think they even have any Nikon gear.

You miss the point.

The people here have, use and love their Nikon gear. And because of using these cameras and lenses need regular renewal.

It may be done by many ways. Some ways are stright and clear, but others are cumbersome and wrong. Don't you regret buying wrong equipment in urgency just because of lack of information?

Well, first let me say English is not my native language so don't mind my crooked grammar and vocabularies.

Second, Z50 is priced accordingly the segment he's suppose to compete in and his direct competitors are Sony A6400 and Fuji X-T30. I get tired of people screaming for IBIS while the direct competitors don't have that as well. They want everything but don't want to pay for those. That annoys me tbh.

Third, I can see what Nikon is doing. Of course they want you to use / migrate to their FF system as the big money is in there. Regular Joe buys a low end model with kit lens and that's it. You and me we buy what we need and more. Now imo it would be stupid of Nikon to focus on the low segment where there is hardly any profit. I want Nikon to keep existing as I'm happy with my Nikon gear.

Last, how so lack of information? I'd say If one is to invest lot money in something he better be do his research. If there is no / lack of information then don't, nobody is putting a gun to your head to make you spend your money isn't it?

Well, I use a D750 having come from a D700. The main problem I have is that the flash systems does nutty things compared to other cameras.

I am pretty happy with my D750 and 28-300mmVR. However, I was blown away by the IBIS and Lens IS on the Olympus EM1.2 +12-100mm.

I think the Z50 is well priced, however, without IBIS, it's not a lot of interest to me.

I have a feeling that my next camera will be a D500. That does what I want for the odd sports meeting, the D50 does not.

Regards

Karl

The D500 has IBIS?!

 eya1's gear list:eya1's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Fujifilm X-T2 Fujifilm XC 35mm F2
NCB Senior Member • Posts: 1,488
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
1

Interesting thought. I wonder how the unit costs of the Z50 compare with say the D3500. Very similar bodies, with very few physical controls. Sticking 3 controls on a dedicated bit of the screen simplifies construction and reduces cost. Only the second control dial adds to the costs. The EVF is probably around the same cost as the D3500s simple OVF. The movable screen adds to the cost slightly.

The difference is that the D3*** series paid for its development costs years ago. The Z50 is only just starting to recuperate its development costs. Like the Z6/Z7 the Z50 is priced to get back as much of the development costs as quickly as possible, so higher margins but also taking into account lower sales.

Over the long term Nikon should get the benefits of its strategy provided the price doesn't drop too low. So I reckon that Nikon with introduce a lower price basic model rather than drop the Z50 price too much, although it will drop. Nikon also has room to slot in a more expensive top of the range model. I'd put the Z50 somewhere between D5*** and D7*** in capabilities; the second control dial lifts it above D5***.

Not really a revolution, but it is a strategically priced product which will change the APS-C landscape somewhat.

 NCB's gear list:NCB's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Nikon D3100 Nikon Df Nikon Z6 Nikon Z50
armin304 Contributing Member • Posts: 667
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
1

With the new rebates, the Z50 is already 150€ off. Curious decision for a brand new model.

https://www.mynikon.de/promotions/sofortrabatt

 armin304's gear list:armin304's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P900 Sony RX10 III Nikon D700 Samsung NX2000 Samsung NX30 +3 more
justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 9,647
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
3

krikman wrote:

It is intended to be high-volume. Its sole purpose is overthrow market with large quantity cheap-to-produce expendable war units to gain base for Z-mount.

That's an unrealistic fantasy.

Which of the below cameras are designed for higher-volume?:

Nikon Z50 (with lens): $999.95

Canon M50 (with lens): $649.99

Nikon D3400 (with lens): $399.95

indra Regular Member • Posts: 366
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
3

justmeMN wrote:

krikman wrote:

It is intended to be high-volume. Its sole purpose is overthrow market with large quantity cheap-to-produce expendable war units to gain base for Z-mount.

That's an unrealistic fantasy.

Which of the below cameras are designed for higher-volume?:

Nikon Z50 (with lens): $999.95

Canon M50 (with lens): $649.99

Nikon D3400 (with lens): $399.95

Nobody cares about Canon. This is the first DX MILC from Nikon.

 indra's gear list:indra's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix F31fd Fujifilm FinePix S5 Pro Nikon D2Hs Nikon D700 Nikon D300S +63 more
mrbr Veteran Member • Posts: 3,444
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
1

justmeMN wrote:

krikman wrote:

It is intended to be high-volume. Its sole purpose is overthrow market with large quantity cheap-to-produce expendable war units to gain base for Z-mount.

That's an unrealistic fantasy.

Which of the below cameras are designed for higher-volume?:

Nikon Z50 (with lens): $999.95

Canon M50 (with lens): $649.99

Nikon D3400 (with lens): $399.95

Hi,

Dpreview compares the Z50 with : Canon EOS M6 Mark II, Sony a6400 and FujiFilm
X-T30 all costing about $1000 … and also with the nikon D5600 …

See https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-z50-initial-review-what-s-new-how-it-compares/2

So, nikon D3400 nor canon M50 are to compare with the Z50 IMO.

-- hide signature --

Greetings,
Marc

 mrbr's gear list:mrbr's gear list
Nikon D7200 Nikon Z6 Nikon 10-20mm F4.5-5.6 VR Nikon AP-F 70-300mm F4.5-5.6E Nikon Z 24-70mm F4 +8 more
justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 9,647
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
4

krikman wrote:

It is intended to be high-volume. Its sole purpose is overthrow market with large quantity cheap-to-produce expendable war units to gain base for Z-mount.

Nothing says "cheap-to-produce" quite like a magnesium alloy body and weather-sealing.

justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 9,647
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
1

mrbr wrote:

So, nikon D3400 nor canon M50 are to compare with the Z50 IMO.

Agreed. The first two are the price points that the Z50 would have to get to, to fulfill the original poster's fantasy of a high-volume Z50 strategy. Since the Z50 is a higher-end camera, that obviously will never happen.

I'm not saying anything bad about the Z50. I'm just saying that the notion that it will become a low-priced, high-volume, camera is silly.

LoneTree1
LoneTree1 Senior Member • Posts: 2,801
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
1

No camera is a revolution today.  Camera sales are so far down from five years ago, even an interesting one will be a blip.

karlreed Senior Member • Posts: 2,065
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution Too Expensive? Nah
1

Well, I use a D750 having come from a D700. The main problem I have is that the flash systems does nutty things compared to other cameras.

I am pretty happy with my D750 and 28-300mmVR. However, I was blown away by the IBIS and Lens IS on the Olympus EM1.2 +12-100mm.

I think the Z50 is well priced, however, without IBIS, it's not a lot of interest to me.

I have a feeling that my next camera will be a D500. That does what I want for the odd sports meeting, the D50 does not.

Regards

Karl

The D500 has IBIS?!

No, but, it ticks my boxes in terms of AF performance and AF coverage of viewfinder. And, there are good ones popping up ate TED's second hand with a year warranty from time to time.

-- hide signature --

karl reed "let's change the tone-civility is in!"

 karlreed's gear list:karlreed's gear list
Sony RX100 IV Nikon D200 Nikon D750 Olympus E-M1 II Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED VR +6 more
Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 20,300
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
1

LoneTree1 wrote:

No camera is a revolution today. Camera sales are so far down from five years ago, even an interesting one will be a blip.

Nikon (and Canon) DSLR and ML seem well ahead in numbers than in the film era.

Way back then Olympus was producing over 10,000,000 of some of their Trip, Mju and XA compacts - a market now occupied by smart phones.

Nikon Coolpix compacts, while still around, are in a significant sales decline.

-- hide signature --

Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than anything else.

 Leonard Shepherd's gear list:Leonard Shepherd's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 Nikon Z7 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED +28 more
Laslo Varadi
Laslo Varadi Veteran Member • Posts: 5,557
I would have much rather..
1

krikman wrote:

Don't take seriously mirrorless camera prices. If manufactured with same price margin as DSLR they are 3x overpriced today. Extra money compensates for R&D.

In DSLR world DX vs FX had a big cost difference. Cost to manufacture FX mirrorbox, AF module and viewfinder prizm with same tolerances were about 4x more compared to DX parts. Othervise in mirrorless cameras cost differences are minimal and almost solely are sensor costs.

But production expences can be minimized with large scale. So 'N-company' needs product that utilises bulk of common components and tecnologies and can be produced and sold massively. It must be differentiated from premium products in fundamental qualities for consumer (DX). Also it lacks the only precision mechanical component that needs an adjustments - IBIS.

Here comes The Z50. If sold >100k units per month its price can be lowered to $300 and still make profit. And lower manufacturing cost for future FF mirrorless with IBIS in $1000 range.

Z50 starts Big Price Wars in mirrorless market and ready to win for Nikon.

P.S.: Exactly 10 years ago mirrorless evolution begun with Olympus Pen. Today Nikon made mirrorless revolution accomplished.

seen a high end full fame that could compete with the SONY A9 or A7IV.  I have the A9 which runs circles around the Z series and competes with the D5.  I have the D850 and some fine Nikon glass and waiting on Nikon to produce something with top AF capabilities.

 Laslo Varadi's gear list:Laslo Varadi's gear list
Sony a7R IV Sony a9 II Sony 1.4x Teleconverter Sony FE 28mm F2 Sony FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS +3 more
PaulSnowcat
PaulSnowcat Senior Member • Posts: 1,115
Re: THE Z50 is a mirrorless revolution
2

Actually, I agree...

I saw Z50 price of 860USD and thought "good, a must have!".

Then couple of days after I saw Olympus EM5-III price of 1200USD and though "wh... WHAT? 1200!? You gotta be kidding, Olympus!"

-- hide signature --
 PaulSnowcat's gear list:PaulSnowcat's gear list
Nikon Z50 Sigma 50mm F1.4 EX DG HSM Tokina AT-X 12-28mm f/4 Pro DX Tamron 16-300mm F/3.5-6.3 Di II VC PZD Macro Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 16-80mm F2.8-4E ED VR +2 more
KnightPhoto2
KnightPhoto2 Senior Member • Posts: 2,061
Re: I would have much rather..
1

Laslo Varadi wrote:

... and waiting on Nikon to produce something with top AF capabilities.

When do you estimate it is coming?  Also how good is the A9 in low light, is it D5 good?

-- hide signature --

Best Regards,
SteveK
'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/119002

 KnightPhoto2's gear list:KnightPhoto2's gear list
Nikon 1 V3 Nikon D500 Nikon Z6 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 58mm f/1.4G Nikkor AF-S 300mm f/4E PF ED VR +22 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads