90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

Started Oct 11, 2019 | Discussions
Battersea Senior Member • Posts: 1,072
Beautiful photo!

Really nice  at high ISO!

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OP thomste Forum Member • Posts: 80
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

Lena36 wrote:

Ended up returning the 90D. It's a lovely camera, but I didn't want to purchase an expensive lens in order to enjoy it. Esp when my 6D works so consistently well with the old Tammy.

I am very surprised you returned the 90D, you seemed to really like it in previous posts?
It is the other way around for me, I had initial doubts but now really love it.

I would have thought the 90D would also be a lot more suitable than the 6D for wildlife (especially BIF), with more reach and faster frame rate?

Have you tried to calibrate your Tamron on the 90D before returning it? I haven't tried but I read it could help.

DanInSoCal Senior Member • Posts: 1,006
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

John Sheehy wrote:

The rumor is that iTR causes OVF AF to look for faces with the metering sensor, impeding AF when there is no face to focus on.

Ah. That is not my experience, I suggest you experiment with this. I am also dabbling with the tracking sensitivity.

Dan

Jack Jian Regular Member • Posts: 309
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2
1

I was having the exact same problem with my Tamron 150-600 (1st version) on the 90D. Stills were often good. Anything moving, not so good.

One day, I took out my 6D with the lens and was reminded how well the combo works, compared to the Tamron 150-600 + the Canon 90D.

Ended up returning the 90D. It's a lovely camera, but I didn't want to purchase an expensive lens in order to enjoy it. Esp when my 6D works so consistently well with the old Tammy.

See below (both crops):

6d + Tamron 150-600

Along that line, I believe even the AF chip strip in FF (Dual Cross) are better than those in APS-C. Because I found the same accuracy (both in still and tracking Z-axis) with FF (5D, 6D & 6D II) vs APS-C (I've shot for long enough with 7D, 60D, 50D, 80D, 800D, 77D, SL2/3) with 85mm f1.8 and 70-200 f2.8 IS II. Even though the modern APS-C have more Cross Type AF points, the basic central AF points of the 5D, 6D & 6D II are far consistently accurate be it stationery/moving (z-axis) both in bright and low light. Out of the APS-C bunch, I found the SL2 & 3 to be the most consistently accurate with its central point (close to the FF), which is weird! Comparing to Nikon D7xxx series, the Nikons are more consistently accurate {tracking (z-axis)and stationery}.

I know this is off topic, but I experienced that Canon's APS-C's OVF AF tracking seems to be a bit lacking in performance compared to their FF especially in the z-axis. I haven't shoot the 7D II properly so I don't know how it performs.

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 24,395
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2
1

thomste wrote:

Lena36 wrote:

Ended up returning the 90D. It's a lovely camera, but I didn't want to purchase an expensive lens in order to enjoy it. Esp when my 6D works so consistently well with the old Tammy.

I am very surprised you returned the 90D, you seemed to really like it in previous posts?
It is the other way around for me, I had initial doubts but now really love it.

I would have thought the 90D would also be a lot more suitable than the 6D for wildlife (especially BIF), with more reach and faster frame rate?

Have you tried to calibrate your Tamron on the 90D before returning it? I haven't tried but I read it could help.

I would never want to give up the potential detail and lower noise of the 90D for photographing wildlife, by using my 6D instead. My 6D is for wide-angles and/or super-shallow DOF.  The 90D is a better camera in every other way, IMO, except perhaps that the 6D gets along better with some third-party optics operating out of protocol, like the Kenko DGX TC I have.  I don't know if I have a defect in something or not, but my 90D will not enable AF with my G1 Tamron (first mail-in firmware update) in Live View.  It is MF no matter which position is set on the lens.

As you say, it can be an MFA issue, or it is possible that pixel-level views are being judged pixel-level views, in which case, the 6D, at 24% the pixel density, will be magnified less and may seem to focus on-target, even when it actually did miss a little.

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 24,395
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2
1

Jack Jian wrote:

I was having the exact same problem with my Tamron 150-600 (1st version) on the 90D. Stills were often good. Anything moving, not so good.

One day, I took out my 6D with the lens and was reminded how well the combo works, compared to the Tamron 150-600 + the Canon 90D.

Ended up returning the 90D. It's a lovely camera, but I didn't want to purchase an expensive lens in order to enjoy it. Esp when my 6D works so consistently well with the old Tammy.

See below (both crops):

Along that line, I believe even the AF chip strip in FF (Dual Cross) are better than those in APS-C. Because I found the same accuracy (both in still and tracking Z-axis) with FF (5D, 6D & 6D II) vs APS-C (I've shot for long enough with 7D, 60D, 50D, 80D, 800D, 77D, SL2/3) with 85mm f1.8 and 70-200 f2.8 IS II. Even though the modern APS-C have more Cross Type AF points, the basic central AF points of the 5D, 6D & 6D II are far consistently accurate be it stationery/moving (z-axis) both in bright and low light. Out of the APS-C bunch, I found the SL2 & 3 to be the most consistently accurate with its central point (close to the FF), which is weird! Comparing to Nikon D7xxx series, the Nikons are more consistently accurate {tracking (z-axis)and stationery}.

I know this is off topic, but I experienced that Canon's APS-C's OVF AF tracking seems to be a bit lacking in performance compared to their FF especially in the z-axis. I haven't shoot the 7D II properly so I don't know how it performs.

I find the 6D OVF AF to be pretty accurate (even tricked into f/8 AF at "outer" points), but slow.

Ad12 Senior Member • Posts: 1,071
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2
1

Jack Jian wrote:

I was having the exact same problem with my Tamron 150-600 (1st version) on the 90D. Stills were often good. Anything moving, not so good.

One day, I took out my 6D with the lens and was reminded how well the combo works, compared to the Tamron 150-600 + the Canon 90D.

Ended up returning the 90D. It's a lovely camera, but I didn't want to purchase an expensive lens in order to enjoy it. Esp when my 6D works so consistently well with the old Tammy.

See below (both crops):

6d + Tamron 150-600

Along that line, I believe even the AF chip strip in FF (Dual Cross) are better than those in APS-C. Because I found the same accuracy (both in still and tracking Z-axis) with FF (5D, 6D & 6D II) vs APS-C (I've shot for long enough with 7D, 60D, 50D, 80D, 800D, 77D, SL2/3) with 85mm f1.8 and 70-200 f2.8 IS II. Even though the modern APS-C have more Cross Type AF points, the basic central AF points of the 5D, 6D & 6D II are far consistently accurate be it stationery/moving (z-axis) both in bright and low light. Out of the APS-C bunch, I found the SL2 & 3 to be the most consistently accurate with its central point (close to the FF), which is weird! Comparing to Nikon D7xxx series, the Nikons are more consistently accurate {tracking (z-axis)and stationery}.

I know this is off topic, but I experienced that Canon's APS-C's OVF AF tracking seems to be a bit lacking in performance compared to their FF especially in the z-axis. I haven't shoot the 7D II properly so I don't know how it performs.

My 800d and Tamron 100-400 works OK for things moving across without a busy background. Things flying towards me with background/foreground grass, it failed and hit none. However, the EFS 55-250 worked much better with same technique, lighting and positioning. Perhaps its less heavy parts to move.

I'm a bit sad that the DPreview review and other sites say the 90d OVF tracking is not brilliant. That's a shame.  They should make a 90d style EVF mless camera so we can track things with dual pixel AF and the viewfinder.

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BirdShooter7 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,481
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

For what it’s worth I am consistently getting more keepers with itr off than with it on for flying birds.  Don’t know exactly why that’s the case but it’s what I have observed so far.

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v30 Contributing Member • Posts: 779
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2
1

600mm on the g2 is also soft IMHO and lacks contrast. Stopped down to f8 or f11 is better but still mediocre.

I also have the g2 100-400 and find it hard to believe thats its as others say 75% of the canon II version for about 40% of the price. It hasnt impressed me.

I had the g2 100-400 originally and wasnt impressed by it so figured Id try the 150-600 and keep the better of the two. Unfortunately, not impressed with that either.

Perhaps both need adjustment, not sure. I just downloaded the focal software and will try to adjust both to see if it makes any difference. If not I might sell both lenses and try the canon 100-400 II....but d*m thats alot of money for me for 1 lens.

v30 Contributing Member • Posts: 779
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

I ran the 150-600 through foCal and it recommended a -2 adjustment. Doesn't seem like much but I tried a few shots with it and it appears to be noticeably better. Didn't have much time to test it. The shots are pretty mediocre but I think the focusing is better than what it was. Here's a couple of samples.

All shots were between 350 and 530 yards away. All 3 shots ran through topaz denoise (trial version...might have to buy it, its awesome.)

OP thomste Forum Member • Posts: 80
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2
1

These are pretty sharp images, thank you.

I went to a bird reserve this morning, plenty of light and pretty much all my shots are fuzzy..... and I can't understand why.

Once I realised that I couldn't get a sharp shot with birds, even stationary ones, i tried to focus on stationary subjects (rocks, trees etc) and still couldn't get a sharp shot at 600mm.

I could get a sharp shot at 600mm on a fairly close subject (less than 10 meters) but anything further than 20-30meters is all fuzzy and pretty much ready for the bin.

Then, I tried a few shots from my balcony. Same settings, similar distance and I get sharp images!!

I am getting frustrated as I can't understand what I am doing wrong. I understand moving birds are difficult and I would be happy to admit it is my technique. But I think I am a good enough photographer to be able to focus on a rock and get a sharp shot.
I tried everything this morning, VC on, VC off, slower faster shutter speed etc.. All fuzzy rubbish.

See photos below. All at 1/2000 and quicker, all at f8 with auto iso.
No cropping except the lorikeet at the end.

This is straight out of the camera, exported to jpg from LR.

f8 1/2500 iso1600 600mm

Nothing is in focus on this shot, although I definitely had the camera tracking the birds. 1/2500 shutter speed

1/2500 f8 iso800 600mm

Once I realised ALL my bird shots were blurry I decided to focus on stationary things.
This herby rock obviously doesn't move and it is still blurry as hell. This one is at a ridiculous shutter speed 1/4000 and f6.3 but that's because I got frustrated and tried different settings. I got the same results at f8 and shutter speed lower than 1/2000.

Another example. Blurry. Camera focused on bird.

Then when I got home I took a photo from my balcony with similar settings, and this is sharp.
I understand this is not a bird and doesn't move, but so doesn't the herby rock above.

I wouldn't obviously usually use such a fast shutter speed for that sort of subject but wanted to use similar settings as in my bird shots to see if I was shaking, doing something wrong etc...

1/2500 f8 iso400

I also got this with the same lens in my garden, but much much closer to the bird.
This is nice and sharp (and moving), the only difference is that the subject is a lot closer, does this make a difference? It appears that it does, but should it?

Also at f8 1/2500 iso2000 - cropped and Denoised with Topaz denoise AI

So, I am a bit lost and start to think that the Tamron 150-600 G2 is highly unreliable or/and needs some sort of adjustments. The problem is that I don't see any front or back focusing on the shots...just blurryness, fuzzyness and uglyness. Nothing is actually in focus except the last two shot.

I am going to rent the Canon 100-400 mkii with a 1.4x tc and see what I get.... If I can't get a decent shot with that combo then I will know it is me

But in all seriousness I really can't understand why my shots are so bad.

1/2500 and f8 should be fast enough with a forgiving enough DOF to give me at least ONE sharp shot out of the 258 I took this morning.

Thank you for your help

Ad12 Senior Member • Posts: 1,071
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2
1

Can't comment on the 600, but i also notice you were unhappy with your 100-400 Tamron. These are from my 100-400, and i'm very happy. On a rebel camera, t7i. I think they're plenty sharp enough! For me anyway.

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OP thomste Forum Member • Posts: 80
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

I don't have and never used a 100-400 Tamron, or any other 100-400

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 24,395
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2
1

thomste wrote:

So, I am a bit lost and start to think that the Tamron 150-600 G2 is highly unreliable or/and needs some sort of adjustments. The problem is that I don't see any front or back focusing on the shots...just blurryness, fuzzyness and uglyness. Nothing is actually in focus except the last two shot.

It could be that your lens is softer towards infinity, or the atmosphere is not good in that situation.

A long lens can't "REACH" through atmosphere.  All a long lens can do is magnify what is actually there more, whether clear and crisp, or yucky.  Most of the actual world out there just simply sucks for bird photography, and rarely does it all come together.  "Birds" does not equal good bird photos, automatically, even with ideal equipment.  When atmosphere is horrible, you must get closer, the real "reach".  You're going to need a clear day, where blacks look black at a distance and there is no thermal distortion to see how your lens works at a distance compared to close.

If you think close stuff comes out sharper, you must also compare at the same pixel magnification.  A downsampled image of something that fills the frame is always going to have more potential than something dwarfed in the frame, and zoomed into.

Ad12 Senior Member • Posts: 1,071
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

thomste wrote:

I don't have and never used a 100-400 Tamron, or any other 100-400

Oops my bad. Mixed people up. It was the poster called VC30 that said hed had the 400.

Apologies.

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v30 Contributing Member • Posts: 779
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

Yeah, ive got the tamron 150-600 g2, 100-400 g2, 24-70 g2 and 70-200 g2. They all seem fine as is on my 6dii and on my t7i (when I had it) but they all needed adjustment on my 90D. Not sure why.

OP thomste Forum Member • Posts: 80
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

Thank you, it didn't occur to me that the atmosphere could be an issue.
But that could definitely explain why I couldn't get a sharp shot even on stationary subjects/objects at a far distance, especially since I did get sharp images once I got back home with the same settings and focal length. Thank you!
It wasn't a particularly hot day though. Clear sky, about 24-25 degrees (Celsius) on a fairly large open mangrove area, but still in a fairly urban environment.

So one question on this then.
Do cheaper lenses like the Tamron 150-600 g2 get more affected by the air quality than more expensive lenses, such as the Canon 100-400 mkii? or would have I encountered the same issue with the 100-400?

More testing and practice to do....

v30 Contributing Member • Posts: 779
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

You would encounter the same issue (assuming its atmosphere, ie heat mirage) with all long lenses. The more "room" between you and your subject the worse it will be. A telephoto lens will magnify the effect. I dont think you would see much of it within 50 meters..beyond that it will get worse the more distance between you and the subject. Try the lens on a cooler, overcast day. The last shots I posted the temp was about 10 deg C with little sunlight. You could also look through binoculars first. If you see it though binoculars while looking at your subject, the camera/lens will definitely pick it up.

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 24,395
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

thomste wrote:

Thank you, it didn't occur to me that the atmosphere could be an issue.
But that could definitely explain why I couldn't get a sharp shot even on stationary subjects/objects at a far distance, especially since I did get sharp images once I got back home with the same settings and focal length. Thank you!
It wasn't a particularly hot day though. Clear sky, about 24-25 degrees (Celsius) on a fairly large open mangrove area, but still in a fairly urban environment.

So one question on this then.
Do cheaper lenses like the Tamron 150-600 g2 get more affected by the air quality than more expensive lenses, such as the Canon 100-400 mkii?

No.  It's about distance.  600mm only means more distance if it makes you step 600/400 times as far away from your subject.

or would have I encountered the same issue with the 100-400?

Same air?

OP thomste Forum Member • Posts: 80
Re: 90D + Tamron 150-600 g2

or would have I encountered the same issue with the 100-400?

Same air?

Yes I am wondering if more expensive lenses handle 'bad air' better than cheaper ones or if all lenses are affected the same.
Just like some cameras handle low light better than others...

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