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Underwater Housing and a new Diver

Started Sep 29, 2019 | Discussions
PHXAZCRAIG
PHXAZCRAIG Forum Pro • Posts: 19,651
Re: Underwater Housing and a new Diver

Barmaglot_07 wrote:

  • Two Retra Pro strobes - 1478€

What can you tell me about these strobes?  I lost one of my YS-D1's last week and have to replace it with something.  (It only fires about 10% of the time.)

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Phoenix Arizona Craig
www.cjcphoto.net
"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they're not."

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PHXAZCRAIG
PHXAZCRAIG Forum Pro • Posts: 19,651
Re: Underwater Housing and a new Diver

theEntreriCode wrote:

What point and shoot would you recommend to someone who wants to print? The Olympus has RAW capability, but, it probably can't print beyond 8x10 without serious resolution loss. The other's don't really have any RAW capability. By the time one buys a housing, strobe, point and shoot, you are looking at $1500 anyways, aren't you? If so, then I'd much rather wait it out until I can find a way to make it affordable and safe for me.

I honestly don't know what compact cameras are out there now.  I'd look at the Sony RX100 (latest), but I hate the confusion of Sony menus, especially underwater.  I like the simplicity of Canon point-n-shoots.

Dear lord you have some serious kit. I am going to peruse the forum for some of your images when I get the chance.

You can look at my website, listed in my signature.  No ads.  It's just a simple web site running on one of my home servers.

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Phoenix Arizona Craig
www.cjcphoto.net
"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they're not."

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kelpdiver Veteran Member • Posts: 5,564
Re: Underwater Housing and a new Diver

PHXAZCRAIG wrote:

Or much worse. My late wife was taking photos of a Lionfish on our third dive off a liveaboard in Fiji. She was drifting down at the same time, and she ripped her eardrum. Granted, that was a weak ear anyway as it had ripped twice before, but stuff like this happens.

good technique for any UW photog to have is to get slightly buoyant, and then slowly kick down to maintain position.   Great for subjects tucked away in small valleys.   But easiest way to achieve is holding full lungs, which is a newbie no-no.   A lot of the tricks used by the photogs is in contradiction to safe practices.

OP theEntreriCode Regular Member • Posts: 270
Re: Underwater Housing and a new Diver

PHXAZCRAIG wrote:

Barmaglot_07 wrote:

theEntreriCode wrote:

I'm pretty good buoyancy control, but am extremely inexperienced so obviously I have a lot to learn. I have a singularly difficult time equalising and managing my claustrophobia. Especially if I have the slightest bit of a sinus issue.

The thing about buoyancy control (and breathing control as well) is that it doesn't just need to be good - it needs to be automatic. When you dive normally, you can afford to concentrate on keeping buoyancy and controlling your breath - but if you're also looking for critters, figuring out framing and lighting, camera settings, etc, and then some current comes along - if you're not keeping your buoyancy without thinking about it, you can easily crash into stuff and damage the reef.

Or much worse. My late wife was taking photos of a Lionfish on our third dive off a liveaboard in Fiji. She was drifting down at the same time, and she ripped her eardrum. Granted, that was a weak ear anyway as it had ripped twice before, but stuff like this happens.

She spent most of the time in our $6000 liveaboard week sitting on the boat. Toward the end of the week she couldn't stand it anymore and did three dives with a ripped ear.

I am sorry for your loss. I can't imagine how bad she must have felt at being on such an exotic and luxurious holiday and not being able to do what she loved.

I wish my wife dived with me, she used to, but stopped a few months before we met. She is petrified of the sea now.

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OP theEntreriCode Regular Member • Posts: 270
Re: Underwater Housing and a new Diver

PHXAZCRAIG wrote:

theEntreriCode wrote:

What point and shoot would you recommend to someone who wants to print? The Olympus has RAW capability, but, it probably can't print beyond 8x10 without serious resolution loss. The other's don't really have any RAW capability. By the time one buys a housing, strobe, point and shoot, you are looking at $1500 anyways, aren't you? If so, then I'd much rather wait it out until I can find a way to make it affordable and safe for me.

I honestly don't know what compact cameras are out there now. I'd look at the Sony RX100 (latest), but I hate the confusion of Sony menus, especially underwater. I like the simplicity of Canon point-n-shoots.

Dear lord you have some serious kit. I am going to peruse the forum for some of your images when I get the chance.

You can look at my website, listed in my signature. No ads. It's just a simple web site running on one of my home servers.

I am not a faon of Sony cameras for much the same reason. I will look at what Canon have to offer. I think though, I'll stick to a GoPro for now, get 50 dives in various conditions under my belt and then take a look at under water photography again. The investment is much more than I can afford for now and I'd definitely like to become a better diver before I try such complicated stuff underwater.

 theEntreriCode's gear list:theEntreriCode's gear list
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kelpdiver Veteran Member • Posts: 5,564
Re: Underwater Housing and a new Diver

Barmaglot_07 wrote:

It's a three week trip with both underwater and topside, so I brought all of them

  • 7.5mm f/2.8 fisheye
  • 10-18mm f/4
  • 16-50mm PZ kit lens
  • 18-200mm zoom
  • 25mm f/1.8
  • 90mm macro
  • +13 wet diopter

honestly, most get along with 2-3, max at 4.

the fisheye and the macro are the first two.  nice small ports.

sharkers add a wide angle rectalinear zoom (your 10-18 here)   This calls for the dome.

and the super macro folks add an even bigger macro and/or the diopters.  May just be an extension to the macro port.

unless you know the site, or are revisting with a specific target in mind, you're generally making a guess for macro or wide angle and then hoping for the best.   I strap on the gopro on top of the housing for the macro dives so I'm covered for the unexpected whale shark type event.   Sometimes my wife is the backup - she has a range being light macro and light telephoto.   But she doesn't like to carry it if there is current.

Barmaglot_07 Contributing Member • Posts: 633
Re: Underwater Housing and a new Diver

25mm and 18-200mm are topside use only, in this case - low light and wildlife zoom respectively. I've done 10 dives so far, 9 of them with camera, 7 of them with 90mm and 2 with 16-50mm. The boat is currently transferring from Malapascua to Moalboal, and my camera is now set up with 10-18mm and a dome for Pescador. I'll see how it goes and maybe switch to the 7.5mm fisheye in a small dome.

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Barmaglot_07 Contributing Member • Posts: 633
Re: Underwater Housing and a new Diver

Seeing has how I haven't received them yet - the preorders are supposed to ship late October - not much. Alex Mustard has posted a hands-on preview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBT9FyD1Phw

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koweb Contributing Member • Posts: 874
Re: Underwater Housing and a new Diver

theEntreriCode wrote:

PHXAZCRAIG wrote:

theEntreriCode wrote:

What point and shoot would you recommend to someone who wants to print? The Olympus has RAW capability, but, it probably can't print beyond 8x10 without serious resolution loss. The other's don't really have any RAW capability. By the time one buys a housing, strobe, point and shoot, you are looking at $1500 anyways, aren't you? If so, then I'd much rather wait it out until I can find a way to make it affordable and safe for me.

I honestly don't know what compact cameras are out there now. I'd look at the Sony RX100 (latest), but I hate the confusion of Sony menus, especially underwater. I like the simplicity of Canon point-n-shoots.

Dear lord you have some serious kit. I am going to peruse the forum for some of your images when I get the chance.

You can look at my website, listed in my signature. No ads. It's just a simple web site running on one of my home servers.

I am not a faon of Sony cameras for much the same reason. I will look at what Canon have to offer. I think though, I'll stick to a GoPro for now, get 50 dives in various conditions under my belt and then take a look at under water photography again. The investment is much more than I can afford for now and I'd definitely like to become a better diver before I try such complicated stuff underwater.

I think this is a great way to start. A couple of good / inexpensive accessories that helped me were

-Polar Pro red filter

-Sola Sidekick Duo light with arm for GoPro

OR... if you want to use a smartphone camera, I now use a Kraken underwater phone housing...

https://www.amazon.com/Kraken-Sports-KRH02-Smart-Housing/dp/B0725QZVFQ

It's actually a very high quality housing with a vacuum pump and leakage warning. It uses bluetooth so compatible with any smartphone. It also includes the very good Dive+ software which makes editing UW photos easy. It has buttons to change the camera settings on the phone, including still or video, white balance, etc.

Of course you need to decide if a smartphone quality image is good enough. For me, for stills photos, the quality beats a GoPro hands down...

Here's 1 image from Cozumel using an iPhone X in the Kraken housing... 1 click editing in the Dive+ app, and here you go...

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Bradk

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PHXAZCRAIG
PHXAZCRAIG Forum Pro • Posts: 19,651
Re: Underwater Housing and a new Diver

theEntreriCode wrote:

I am not a faon of Sony cameras for much the same reason. I will look at what Canon have to offer. I think though, I'll stick to a GoPro for now, get 50 dives in various conditions under my belt and then take a look at under water photography again. The investment is much more than I can afford for now and I'd definitely like to become a better diver before I try such complicated stuff underwater.

I think being an underwater photographer also helps to improve your buoyancy skills, if you really care about the images and pixel peep them.   While you are taking a shot you will soon see if you are holding the camera steady, especially when zoomed in on a small subject.

Next you find you have to be able to get the camera into the proper position, and that leads to both better control and a better appreciation of how to approach the subject and deal with both current and obstructions.  (And if you are wearing a shorty or no wetsuit, you may become intimately familiar with the need to stay away from Fire Coral.

After getting sore ears after repetitive diving due to 'following the terrain closely', you may become more familiar with your ears, maintaining a more consistent dive profile and clearing your ears more often.

You'll become intimately familiar with your dive gear, knowing unconsciously how to add and release air from your BCD as you descend or ascend to a subject.   (A hint here:  When releasing air from your BCD, you don't have to lift your low pressure inflator above your head, you can simply raise that shoulder and pull on the low pressure inflator.   The inflator should have a cable built in that pulls up a dump valve on the back of your shoulder.  If you dive with crossed arms you'll have a hand right near the inflator anyway.  Your inflator should have a 'ball near the shoulder to help pull on it.    You just have to be somewhat upright to have air in your BCD at that shoulder when you pull.)

The biggest change I found to how I dove happened not when shooting a small camera carried in one hand, but when there is a handle and external flash added.   Once you get past the stage where you can just let go of a small camera and let it dangle from your wrist, you've changed how you'll have to dive.  Once you get to a camera with two grip handles, you'll be diving without the use of your hands for the most part, something experienced divers do anyway, but which can really bother new divers.

And of course there are then numerous potential distractions and possibility of information overload.  Let me describe what I do at the beginning of every dive, once I get in the water.  (Boat diving primarily).

As soon as I hit the water I return to the boat where someone pulls the camera out of a rinse tank and hands it (CAREFULLY) down to me.  I grab it and nob my head to let them know I have control of it before they let go.

Now I get away from the boat (current may try to push me back, possibly under another diver ready to drop in on top of me.) while FIRST attaching my camera tether to my BCD.

I recommend doing the next part on the surface if possible, but I often end up doing it as I descend.

2. (#1 is 'attach camera to me') I loosen 7 clamps to the proper tension so I can position my focus light and strobe arms.

3. turn on strobes and observe power light indicating success

4. turn on camera, look through viewfinder and make sure autofocus is working

5. take a test shot and ensure both strobes fire

6. clear ears while descending.

Last couple of weeks I dove 34 times.  Because I often do the above while descending to 30-40 feet, I've come up with a mantra:   EARS FIRST    It's easy to get caught up in getting the strobes moved to the right position and retensioning the clamps and descend 20 feet without clearing your ears.   So prioritize your ears.   As long as it is safe, it's best to get the camera ready to go before descending.

Those clamps - they can be problematic/time consuming.  I have them tightened up hard so the strobes don't flop all over when handing the camera on or off a boat, and they are turned such that the grab rope on top is accessible and strobes are turned so the whole rig fit in a (big) rinse bucket.   The older the o-rings get, the more they take a set and make it hard to get the proper tension on the arms.   Smooth tension makes it easy to re-aim the strobes while not so loose the strobes move in the current.   I've spent the entire descent dealing with them.

Here's something else you have to worry about and deal with.  Those clamps have the adjusting handles facing toward you.  Your regulator hose WILL get caught under one of them, and when you move the camera you'll find it trying to pull the regulator out of your mouth.  And your mask will probably prevent you from seeing the problem, so you'll have to detangle yourself by feel.  This is NOT something you want a new diver to experience.

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Phoenix Arizona Craig
www.cjcphoto.net
"In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they're not."

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rafalvonbur Forum Member • Posts: 61
Re: Underwater Housing and a new Diver

Barmaglot_07 wrote:

For a new diver, I would strongly recommend against housing a DSLR. The resulting rig will be huge and heavy, and managing it underwater will require buoyancy skills that most new divers simply don't have. Your air consumption with a large camera rig shoots up as well. If you want to get a feel for underwater photography, take a PADI underwater photography course with a rented P&S, or get a cheap action camera like an SJCAM. Once you have some experience, you'll be able to better decide in which direction to go.

This is absolutely right and on point. Please learn how to dive first ...after 100 dives you know what you are doing..adding heavy equipment is a massive game changer . Your diving skills have to be great (breathing, buoyancy, positioning..you have to be a good diver before becoming good underwater photographer . Its a fun learning process!!

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