Underwater Housing and a new Diver

Hello,

I've been getting into diving and am considering getting a camera rig together before I invest in my own scuba gear. Is this a mistake?

I shoot a Nikon D810, 750 and a Fuji XT30. Most rigs I see for the D810 would require me to be in the 3000-4000 dollar range with Dome and Strobes. If I'm doing that, I may as well upgrade to the D850 for future proofing. Unfortunately that is not a financial possibility until much later next year. Is there anyway to do it cheap? I'll probably be at around 20 dives a year for the next year or two, but, I live in India, so given the funds and time, I'm sure that number can go up pretty quickly. I'd like to be able to print my images, so not too keen on investing in another system like the m4/3rds which would require a net investment on par with getting my FF dive ready anyways.

If only I could get a full Meikon rig for a grand or lower and some second hand Strobes.....

For a new diver, I would strongly recommend against housing a DSLR. The resulting rig will be huge and heavy, and managing it underwater will require buoyancy skills that most new divers simply don't have. Your air consumption with a large camera rig shoots up as well. If you want to get a feel for underwater photography, take a PADI underwater photography course with a rented P&S, or get a cheap action camera like an SJCAM. Once you have some experience, you'll be able to better decide in which direction to go.

Barmaglot_07 wrote:

For a new diver, I would strongly recommend against housing a DSLR. The resulting rig will be huge and heavy, and managing it underwater will require buoyancy skills that most new divers simply don't have.

Aaah, I was thinking of  getting a BP&W set up to keep my actual dive rig light. The instructor was impressed with my buoyancy, but, I did not consider that it would be a factor. I suppose that I need to get a season under my belt and then see where I stand.

Your air consumption with a large camera rig shoots up as well.

Yet something else that I did not consider. You make a very good point

If you want to get a feel for underwater photography, take a PADI underwater photography course with a rented P&S, or get a cheap action camera like an SJCAM. Once you have some experience, you'll be able to better decide in which direction to go.

So I was thinking of investing in Nitrox as the next course. I always thought the PADI underwater course was more of a gimmick, designed for non photographers to understand the fundamentals. If it is more involved than that, it may be worth looking into. Thank you for your input. It has given me much food for thought and a basis for continued research.

kelpdiver wrote:

I would absolutely recommend the backplate route, with or without the camera. It reduces drag and (stuff) in front of the body and if you integrate the weight into it, avoid the problems with weight belts.

I was thinking of getting the XDeep Ghost/Zen, but I am not sure yet whether I am actually paying a premium for a good lighter weight solution or just for the sex factor and marketing. Need to look at them closer. I was also thinking of getting a piston reg so I can do the maintenance on my own. Not to save money, I doubt I'd end up doing that, just to make sure it's done right. Integrated vs weight belt is a big debate.

However, as new diver, stick to the 36-45lb wings over the minimalist 20lb ones. With the latter, your rig may not float without you in it at the beginning of a dive (full tank). You should have excess lift to prevent getting into a small situation that can snowball.

Yes this is something that many people have told me and I am looking at what I can get.

So I was thinking of investing in Nitrox as the next course. I always thought the PADI underwater course was more of a gimmick, designed for non photographers to

Take the nitrox class. Dive time is expensive (100-400$/dive for traveling) and nitrox is remarkably cheap at increasing it. It's extremely limiting to do 4-5 dives per day on air.

And when feasible, with an instructor/shop you like, the rescue class. That one is more about avoiding a disaster than recovering from it. Key knowledge for the UW photographer, who tends to become a solo or SOB (same ocean buddy) diver.

You might find a good photographer instructor who also issues this padi badge, but more likely, garbage. Put another [hundred] dollar in. Go instead to a resort that focuses on photography, or a trip organizer that does.

Nitrox will definitely help a lot. We tend to get 3/4 long weekends at work here every year. I can usually plan things in a manner that I can take an additional day or two off. If I can plan a diving trip (closest would be the Andamans/Lakshadweep/Thailand) off a cheap flight ticket, it would be nice to get 3.5 days of 3 dives a day. I can see Nitrox definitely helping me in that scenario.

kelpdiver wrote:

theEntreriCode wrote:

I've been getting into diving and am considering getting a camera rig together before I invest in my own scuba gear. Is this a mistake?

this is in part a packing question. Are you willing to pack and lug a full set of diving gear, which starts close to 20lbs and a good portion of a checked bag? And how do you feel about using a wetsuit countless others have peed in, or a reg that countless have breathed off? If that makes you squeemish, easy answer.

I think I'm done renting FUBARd gear (although in all fairness, many places keep them in good condition); I'm not gonna lie, I like the idea of my own lovingly maintained kit that doesn't have trace saliva, urea or worse from previous users

To be a good photog, particularly with the housed SLRs, you need to have your buoyancy skills in top form, and to know how to use your equipment without thinking. That's very hard to do with rental gear that changes every trip, or even every day with different operators. Weighting is variable even with your own gear - this along with the BC fit are the key to effective shooting.

I shoot a Nikon D810, 750 and a Fuji XT30. Most rigs I see for the D810 would require me to be in the 3000-4000 dollar range with Dome and Strobes. If I'm doing that, I may

3-4k would be rather low end of likely. Strobes and arms alone get toward 2. Ports and UW specific lenses push beyond unless your current collection matches. A lot of SLR shooters will have the macro, but not the fisheyes or UWA.

I own a kit that goes from 15 to 400 mm, only issue is, my wide angle is a Tamron 15-30 G1 and may not have compatible domes. I would be very reluctant to trade in its topside performance for a Nikkor 16-35.

An experience vacation diver might spend the first 2-3 days (12 dives) just getting their SLR shooting well in hand. 20/year total is problematic coming from a new base experience.

You might try day rentals from the resorts to get your feet wet initially. In a week trip, try it out on day 5. Or 4 and 6. Avoid on days 1-3.

I think I will can the photography plan for now, maybe I will get a case for my Pixel 2 XL, if I can get something universal, all the better and continue to invest my free time and spare funds in diving, topside photography and beer.

About packing weight - I'm writing this from the boarding gate as I'm leaving for a three week dive trip; my checked bag is 27kg and my carryon is 14kg - and this is with a fairly small mirrorless (Sony A6300), not a full-frame DSLR.

Barmaglot_07 wrote:

About packing weight - I'm writing this from the boarding gate as I'm leaving for a three week dive trip; my checked bag is 27kg and my carryon is 14kg - and this is with a fairly small mirrorless (Sony A6300), not a full-frame DSLR.

Ouch. 14 Kg is crazy. Is it all camera kit?
Have a fun 3 weeks of diving!

SeaFrogs housing with camera inside, normal and macro ports, two strobes, topside and underwater lenses, bunch of batteries, power bank, laptop, external HDD for backups... it adds up. All the dive gear as well as tray, all the arms and clamps, lights and some clothes are in the carryon, and I'm saving a few kilos by using lightweight backpacks rather than roller cases. Underwater photography does not let one travel light.

theEntreriCode wrote:

Hello,

I've been getting into diving and am considering getting a camera rig together before I invest in my own scuba gear. Is this a mistake?

Depends on how good a diver you are, and if you are comfortable underwater before adding camera gear. I would definitely NOT recommend starting with a big DSLR rig with dual strobes while learning to dive. However, a point-n-shoot, gopro, or at least a rig without strobes hanging off would be much easier to deal with while getting your buoyancy skills up to snuff.

I shoot a Nikon D810, 750 and a Fuji XT30. Most rigs I see for the D810 would require me to be in the 3000-4000 dollar range with Dome and Strobes.

I think you have seriously underestimated the cost of a D810 rig. Mine was in the range of $8,000:

Nauticam D810 housing: $3200

Dual YS-D1 strobes, arms, STIX floats and fiber cables: $2000

Focus light: $300-400

Macro port (105vr or 60mm about the same cost): $400

Dome port (230mm): $1900

Extension port for dome: $400

spare batteries: $100-300 (depends on special batteries for focus light).

I have three lenses I can use underwater: 60 micro, 105vr micro and 16-35vr. I've also tried the 105vr with a 1.4TC on it and a port extension.

The 16-35 is extremely sharp underwater - in the center - and it works much better to the edges with a ($400) Sea and Sea Internal Correction Lens. I suspect you cannot use the Tamron due to it's size and probably lack of a zoom ring for it.

If I'm doing that, I may as well upgrade to the D850 for future proofing.

Which is what I did after three years shooting the D810 underwater. The housing was due for ($800) maintenance, and I decided to just upgrade. The D850 housing is another $200 more than the D810 because it needs to include a flash trigger. (D810 uses pop-up to drive the strobes via fiber optic cable).

Unfortunately that is not a financial possibility until much later next year. Is there anyway to do it cheap?

Used equipment will be cheapER, but CHEAP? No way with reliability.

I'll probably be at around 20 dives a year for the next year or two, but, I live in India, so given the funds and time, I'm sure that number can go up pretty quickly. I'd like to be able to print my images, so not too keen on investing in another system like the m4/3rds which would require a net investment on par with getting my FF dive ready anyways.

Once you see what it takes to do full frame wide angle underwater you may rethink that. You will definitely rethink it once you've hauled a 230mm dome port through a few airports.

If only I could get a full Meikon rig for a grand or lower and some second hand Strobes.....

Yes, if only. If only camera manufacturers would not keep changing the button placement and shape of the cameras, we might have cheaper housing costs.

Here's what it takes to pack my rig. It's a D850 rig, but there is no difference between it and the D810 rig: http://www.cjcphoto.net/uwcamera/

theEntreriCode wrote:

Hello,

I've been getting into diving and am considering getting a camera rig together before I invest in my own scuba gear. Is this a mistake?

I shoot a Nikon D810, 750 and a Fuji XT30. Most rigs I see for the D810 would require me to be in the 3000-4000 dollar range with Dome and Strobes. If I'm doing that, I may as well upgrade to the D850 for future proofing. Unfortunately that is not a financial possibility until much later next year. Is there anyway to do it cheap? I'll probably be at around 20 dives a year for the next year or two, but, I live in India, so given the funds and time, I'm sure that number can go up pretty quickly. I'd like to be able to print my images, so not too keen on investing in another system like the m4/3rds which would require a net investment on par with getting my FF dive ready anyways.

If only I could get a full Meikon rig for a grand or lower and some second hand Strobes.....

I have this rig for my D750. At $600 it's in-between the cheap Dicapac plastic bags and the $2000 model investment:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Meikon-60m-Waterproof-Diving-Underwater-Housing-Hard-Case-For-Nikon-D810-Camera/401900732144

If you're not comfortable risking your D750 or D810 at this price point, I believe they also make hardshell housing for your Fuji to reduce your loss in case of a leak.

Yes I can understand how quickly it adds up. How many lenses do you have with you and what is their weight? I'd have to add a tripod and filters for topside stuff too!

PHXAZCRAIG wrote:

theEntreriCode wrote:

Hello,

I've been getting into diving and am considering getting a camera rig together before I invest in my own scuba gear. Is this a mistake?

Depends on how good a diver you are, and if you are comfortable underwater before adding camera gear. I would definitely NOT recommend starting with a big DSLR rig with dual strobes while learning to dive. However, a point-n-shoot, gopro, or at least a rig without strobes hanging off would be much easier to deal with while getting your buoyancy skills up to snuff.

I'm pretty good buoyancy control, but am extremely inexperienced so obviously I have a lot to learn. I have a singularly difficult time equalising and managing my claustrophobia. Especially if I have the slightest bit of a sinus issue.

What point and shoot would you recommend to someone who wants to print? The Olympus has RAW capability, but, it probably can't print beyond 8x10 without serious resolution loss. The other's don't really have any RAW capability. By the time one buys a housing, strobe, point and shoot, you are looking at $1500 anyways, aren't you? If so, then I'd much rather wait it out until I can find a way to make it affordable and safe for me.

I shoot a Nikon D810, 750 and a Fuji XT30. Most rigs I see for the D810 would require me to be in the 3000-4000 dollar range with Dome and Strobes.

I think you have seriously underestimated the cost of a D810 rig. Mine was in the range of $8,000:

Nauticam D810 housing: $3200

Dual YS-D1 strobes, arms, STIX floats and fiber cables: $2000

Focus light: $300-400

Macro port (105vr or 60mm about the same cost): $400

Dome port (230mm): $1900

Extension port for dome: $400

spare batteries: $100-300 (depends on special batteries for focus light).

I have three lenses I can use underwater: 60 micro, 105vr micro and 16-35vr. I've also tried the 105vr with a 1.4TC on it and a port extension.

The 16-35 is extremely sharp underwater - in the center - and it works much better to the edges with a ($400) Sea and Sea Internal Correction Lens. I suspect you cannot use the Tamron due to it's size and probably lack of a zoom ring for it.

Dear lord you have some serious kit. I am going to peruse the forum for some of your images when I get the chance. There is no ways I am getting into that level of kit, initially or in the foreseeable future. I was hoping for a cheap Meikon housing, or, failing that Ikelite. I can't afford the cost of the entire Nauticam rig, although, that is the best quality and ergonomics out there.

I was expecting the ikelite with arms and dome to be around 2400 - 2800. Another 1000 for strobes.

Not being able to use the Tamron is a bit of a bummer as I'd hoped that would have been my underwater wide angle. I have no interest in Macro photography topside, don't know how that will reflect underwater. If I do get into it, I can always borrow my Dad's Tokina 100 mm.

If I'm doing that, I may as well upgrade to the D850 for future proofing.

Which is what I did after three years shooting the D810 underwater. The housing was due for ($800) maintenance, and I decided to just upgrade. The D850 housing is another $200 more than the D810 because it needs to include a flash trigger. (D810 uses pop-up to drive the strobes via fiber optic cable).

In your situation, this makes perfect sense. I'd have done the same thing.

Unfortunately that is not a financial possibility until much later next year. Is there anyway to do it cheap?

Used equipment will be cheapER, but CHEAP? No way with reliability.

I was hoping for something like the Meikon rig, which makes the whole large format rec dive photographer possible for a lot of people.

I'll probably be at around 20 dives a year for the next year or two, but, I live in India, so given the funds and time, I'm sure that number can go up pretty quickly. I'd like to be able to print my images, so not too keen on investing in another system like the m4/3rds which would require a net investment on par with getting my FF dive ready anyways.

Once you see what it takes to do full frame wide angle underwater you may rethink that. You will definitely rethink it once you've hauled a 230mm dome port through a few airports.

From the look of it, I've put buying a rig on the back burner. I'll probably buy my dive kit before and see if a suitable rig pops up for my Fuji system next year. Even my dive kit sadly will take more time than I initially thought. Stuff is simply too expensive in India. I am trying to save up enough to pick up the whole set before my next work trip to the US, but that may not happen. So, it might only be mid/end of next year before I pick up my kit.

If only I could get a full Meikon rig for a grand or lower and some second hand Strobes.....

Yes, if only. If only camera manufacturers would not keep changing the button placement and shape of the cameras, we might have cheaper housing costs.

Here's what it takes to pack my rig. It's a D850 rig, but there is no difference between it and the D810 rig: http://www.cjcphoto.net/uwcamera/

my word that is an extensive set up. The  photos are fantastic.

James809 wrote:

I have this rig for my D750. At $600 it's in-between the cheap Dicapac plastic bags and the $2000 model investment:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Meikon-60m-Waterproof-Diving-Underwater-Housing-Hard-Case-For-Nikon-D810-Camera/401900732144

If you're not comfortable risking your D750 or D810 at this price point, I believe they also make hardshell housing for your Fuji to reduce your loss in case of a leak.

Thanks James. I contacted Meikon and their official response is that they don't make housings for any of the cameras I have. I suppose though that they will make one for the FUJI XT 30. The ebay ones seem to be their older design which I'd rather not invest in at this point. I've heard the new design is a big step up in quality. As an Engineer, I have no issues using an off brand product if its been engineered well enough to protect my gear. For the price, I am okay dealing with minor ergonomic issues and any mods that I'd need to do. There is little chance of my affording fancier kit for another year or two.

theEntreriCode wrote:

James809 wrote:

I have this rig for my D750. At $600 it's in-between the cheap Dicapac plastic bags and the $2000 model investment:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Meikon-60m-Waterproof-Diving-Underwater-Housing-Hard-Case-For-Nikon-D810-Camera/401900732144

If you're not comfortable risking your D750 or D810 at this price point, I believe they also make hardshell housing for your Fuji to reduce your loss in case of a leak.

Thanks James. I contacted Meikon and their official response is that they don't make housings for any of the cameras I have. I suppose though that they will make one for the FUJI XT 30. The ebay ones seem to be their older design which I'd rather not invest in at this point. I've heard the new design is a big step up in quality. As an Engineer, I have no issues using an off brand product if its been engineered well enough to protect my gear. For the price, I am okay dealing with minor ergonomic issues and any mods that I'd need to do. There is little chance of my affording fancier kit for another year or two.

From the looks of things, the Sea Frogs, Meike, and Polaroid housing seem to be the same items rebranded. I have one from Polaroid and one from Sea Frogs, and I can't tell the difference between them, inside or out.

I'd love to see their newer designs, but I wouldn't be surprised of they're only for newer cameras.

James809 wrote:

From the looks of things, the Sea Frogs, Meike, and Polaroid housing seem to be the same items rebranded. I have one from Polaroid and one from Sea Frogs, and I can't tell the difference between them, inside or out.

I'd love to see their newer designs, but I wouldn't be surprised of they're only for newer cameras.

I know the first two share the same factory, if not owner(s). I have no knowledge of Polaroid, but will check them out.

They have the new designs on their website. They aren't really limited to only new cameras, but, mostly newish popular models. While I'm not holding out hope for a Nikon full frame model, I hope that they do launch one for the XT30

It's a three week trip with both underwater and topside, so I brought all of them

• 7.5mm f/2.8 fisheye
• 10-18mm f/4
• 16-50mm PZ kit lens
• 18-200mm zoom
• 25mm f/1.8
• 90mm macro
• +13 wet diopter

Carryon has the camera in the housing, all the lenses, two flat ports (basic and long macro), two strobes, all the batteries (24x18650, 16xEneloop Pro), laptop, dive computer with transmitter, charges for laptop+phone+camera batteries.

...and that 27kg checked-in bag? Got left by the airline at one of the connecting airports I had to scramble to get an arm with two clamps, cold shoe ball, fiber optic cord and a lanyard at a local shop in Cebu City, but at least I can shoot macro with 90mm and one strobe.

theEntreriCode wrote:

I'm pretty good buoyancy control, but am extremely inexperienced so obviously I have a lot to learn. I have a singularly difficult time equalising and managing my claustrophobia. Especially if I have the slightest bit of a sinus issue.

The thing about buoyancy control (and breathing control as well) is that it doesn't just need to be good - it needs to be automatic. When you dive normally, you can afford to concentrate on keeping buoyancy and controlling your breath - but if you're also looking for critters, figuring out framing and lighting, camera settings, etc, and then some current comes along - if you're not keeping your buoyancy without thinking about it, you can easily crash into stuff and damage the reef.

Dear lord you have some serious kit. I am going to peruse the forum for some of your images when I get the chance. There is no ways I am getting into that level of kit, initially or in the foreseeable future. I was hoping for a cheap Meikon housing, or, failing that Ikelite. I can't afford the cost of the entire Nauticam rig, although, that is the best quality and ergonomics out there.

I was expecting the ikelite with arms and dome to be around 2400 - 2800. Another 1000 for strobes.

My costs have been:

• 2nd hand Sony A6300 with 16-50mm lens - $837
• 2nd hand Sony 10-18mm lens - $557
• 2nd hand Sony 90mm macro lens - $790
• SeaFrogs (Meikon) Housing with 6" dome - $498
• 4" fisheye dome - $148
• 8" dome - $238
• Macro port - $120
• Vacuum system - $150
• Tray with two arms and four clamps - $137
• Extra arms (4x 300g carbon fiber float, 2x normal 8", focus light holder, two triple clamps, four normal clamps, three long clamps, 67mm magnetic couplers, some other stuff) - total $520
• Trigger extension - $65
• Two Retra Pro strobes - 1478€
• UW-Technics TTL converter - $485

There's also batteries, chargers, torches, covers, pair of SeaFrogs ST-100 Pro strobes that were, honestly, a mistake, etc, etc - my grand total stands just shy of $10k now. As you can see, the housing is a fairly minor part of the whole thing as far as costs go.

Barmaglot_07 wrote:

theEntreriCode wrote:

I'm pretty good buoyancy control, but am extremely inexperienced so obviously I have a lot to learn. I have a singularly difficult time equalising and managing my claustrophobia. Especially if I have the slightest bit of a sinus issue.

The thing about buoyancy control (and breathing control as well) is that it doesn't just need to be good - it needs to be automatic. When you dive normally, you can afford to concentrate on keeping buoyancy and controlling your breath - but if you're also looking for critters, figuring out framing and lighting, camera settings, etc, and then some current comes along - if you're not keeping your buoyancy without thinking about it, you can easily crash into stuff and damage the reef.

Or much worse.  My late wife was taking photos of a Lionfish on our third dive off a liveaboard in Fiji.  She was drifting down at the same time, and she ripped her eardrum.  Granted, that was a weak ear anyway as it had ripped twice before, but stuff like this happens.

She spent most of the time in our $6000 liveaboard week sitting on the boat.  Toward the end of the week she couldn't stand it anymore and did three dives with a ripped ear.