Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?

Started Sep 23, 2019 | Discussions
Bejersey
Bejersey Forum Pro • Posts: 14,117
Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?
1

At 50mm and 35mm?

Thanks

Rick

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Bejersey
OP Bejersey Forum Pro • Posts: 14,117
I found it...but just in case you were wondering...
1

Reduces the MP factor to 7 and 15mp

Rick

Bejersey wrote:

At 50mm and 35mm?

Thanks

Rick

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Olifaunt Contributing Member • Posts: 819
Re: Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?
1

Also, no pixels are lost, since the raw file has the full uncropped image; only the jpegs are cropped. (Speaking for GRii.)

Bejersey
OP Bejersey Forum Pro • Posts: 14,117
Re: Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?

Okay...got it. Thank you!!!

Rick

Olifaunt wrote:

Also, no pixels are lost, since the raw file has the full uncropped image; only the jpegs are cropped. (Speaking for GRii.)

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Bejersey
OP Bejersey Forum Pro • Posts: 14,117
Re: Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?

Bejersey wrote:

Okay...got it. Thank you!!!

Rick

Olifaunt wrote:

Also, no pixels are lost, since the raw file has the full uncropped image; only the jpegs are cropped. (Speaking for GRii.)

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Shawn67 Senior Member • Posts: 2,283
Re: Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?
1

Gr3 is the same in raw. If you use Lightroom you will need the full field plug in to see it though.

Shawn

rondom Veteran Member • Posts: 3,283
Re: Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?
2

Olifaunt wrote:

Also, no pixels are lost, since the raw file has the full uncropped image; only the jpegs are cropped. (Speaking for GRii.)

I’m pretty much sure that’s incorrect. I’ll need to check this tomorrow.

Tungsten Nordstein
Tungsten Nordstein Senior Member • Posts: 2,244
Re: Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?
2

rondom wrote:

Olifaunt wrote:

Also, no pixels are lost, since the raw file has the full uncropped image; only the jpegs are cropped. (Speaking for GRii.)

I’m pretty much sure that’s incorrect. I’ll need to check this tomorrow.

DNGs definitely cropped on my GR2.

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rondom Veteran Member • Posts: 3,283
Re: Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?

Tungsten Nordstein wrote:

rondom wrote:

Olifaunt wrote:

Also, no pixels are lost, since the raw file has the full uncropped image; only the jpegs are cropped. (Speaking for GRii.)

I’m pretty much sure that’s incorrect. I’ll need to check this tomorrow.

DNGs definitely cropped on my GR2.

Thank you TN. That’s how I remembered as well.

Olifaunt Contributing Member • Posts: 819
Re: Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?

Tungsten Nordstein wrote:

rondom wrote:

Olifaunt wrote:

Also, no pixels are lost, since the raw file has the full uncropped image; only the jpegs are cropped. (Speaking for GRii.)

I’m pretty much sure that’s incorrect. I’ll need to check this tomorrow.

DNGs definitely cropped on my GR2.

It must depend on the raw editor. In DxO Photolab, which is what I mostly use, the GR2 DNG files are most definitely the full uncropped 28mm field of view, even when the JPEGs are set to cropped (before taking the shot).

If you view the DNG with most viewers, as opposed to editors, they will just show the attached cropped jpeg preview file (that is part of the DNG file).

I vaguely remember Capture One showing the DNGs as cropped, but I'm not going to fire up my old version to check that now since it always breaks something.

teemodk Senior Member • Posts: 1,287
Re: Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?
1

rondom wrote:

Tungsten Nordstein wrote:

rondom wrote:

Olifaunt wrote:

Also, no pixels are lost, since the raw file has the full uncropped image; only the jpegs are cropped. (Speaking for GRii.)

I’m pretty much sure that’s incorrect. I’ll need to check this tomorrow.

DNGs definitely cropped on my GR2.

The viewers/editors may only show the cropped picture. I have heard of the mentioned plugin, but not that it works for Ricoh...??

Thank you TN. That’s how I remembered as well.

I see 16MP being up to 23MB and 5.6MP up to 18MB. Just the few I have on my phone. The difference should be bigger unless the compression used are different. In general the cropped pictures file sizes are smaller though. More data (or the plugin) needed for a conclusion.

Tungsten Nordstein
Tungsten Nordstein Senior Member • Posts: 2,244
Re: Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?

I loaded mine into Lightroom. RAW Therapy also crops for me. But you must be right about the full image being there.

I seem to recall that I had uncropped DNG raw images from the Sigma in one of my converters. I found it mildly annoying to choose a non-native format in camera and then have to manually crop it in the software.

But I have no issue with losing pixels. If I choose to 47mm crop in camera then I want lose the extra image area.

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Tungsten Nordstein
Tungsten Nordstein Senior Member • Posts: 2,244
Re: Using the crop feature, before taking a image...how many megapixels are lost?

My GR2 47mm crops are 16Mb-ish in RAW

Uncrops are 25Mb-ish in RAW.

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rondom Veteran Member • Posts: 3,283
nothing mysterious
2

teemodk wrote:

rondom wrote:

Tungsten Nordstein wrote:

rondom wrote:

Olifaunt wrote:

Also, no pixels are lost, since the raw file has the full uncropped image; only the jpegs are cropped. (Speaking for GRii.)

I’m pretty much sure that’s incorrect. I’ll need to check this tomorrow.

DNGs definitely cropped on my GR2.

The viewers/editors may only show the cropped picture. I have heard of the mentioned plugin, but not that it works for Ricoh...??

I checked this in a "Ricoh blind" DNG viewer which is based on dcraw.

for 35mm crop:

3952 x 2624 Pixels (10.37 MPixels) (3:2)

for 47mm crop:

2928 x 1952 Pixels (5.72 MPixels) (3:2)

In crop mode **GR throws away unused data from sensor**

This makes sense. A Raw shooter who prefers to use the cropped mode should not waste time trying to crop the image. The same principle applies if you want to shoot in a different aspect ratio: Square, 4:3 etc. That's also cropping and the camera behaves in the same manner.

Thank you TN. That’s how I remembered as well.

I see 16MP being up to 23MB and 5.6MP up to 18MB. Just the few I have on my phone. The difference should be bigger unless the compression used are different. In general the cropped pictures file sizes are smaller though. More data (or the plugin) needed for a conclusion.

DNG is lossless compressed data. Depending on the complexity of the scene you will get different size files.

By the way, Ricoh embeds a "full size" jpeg within the raw file. Once again, DNG and jpeg files are equal in pixel dimensions.

Also: I am aware of *lens profiles* for specific cameras- but image size is not part of a camera profile.

rondom Veteran Member • Posts: 3,283
Re: nothing mysterious
2

rondom wrote:

The same principle applies if you want to shoot in a different aspect ratio: Square, 4:3 etc. That's also cropping and the camera behaves in the same manner.

actually for GR/GRII 4:3 is the native sensor ratio and 3:2 is the crop.

Olifaunt Contributing Member • Posts: 819
Re: nothing mysterious
3

rondom wrote:

I checked this in a "Ricoh blind" DNG viewer which is based on dcraw.

for 35mm crop:

3952 x 2624 Pixels (10.37 MPixels) (3:2)

for 47mm crop:

2928 x 1952 Pixels (5.72 MPixels) (3:2)

In crop mode **GR throws away unused data from sensor**

I don't think it throws away unused data.

Here is a GRii DNG taken with 35mm crop option: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vh0oegi65l2dgkj/S0018727.DNG?dl=0

In DxO Photolab this DNG displays the 4928x3264 uncropped image and the full uncropped image is available for editing, even though the attached JPEG (part of the DNG format) that will be displayed by many viewers (including the dropbox viewer) is cropped to 3936x2608.

lsdphoto Forum Member • Posts: 78
Re: nothing mysterious
3

The RAWs contain the full image data i.e. the 28mm field of view. LR by default shows the DNG cropped if you are in one of the cropped modes. There is a plugin for LR that lets you see the full image:

https://labs.adobe.com/technologies/lightroomplugins/

It is Adobe DNG Recover Edge plug-in

Lee

rondom Veteran Member • Posts: 3,283
so I was wrong

Olifaunt wrote:

rondom wrote:

I checked this in a "Ricoh blind" DNG viewer which is based on dcraw.

for 35mm crop:

3952 x 2624 Pixels (10.37 MPixels) (3:2)

for 47mm crop:

2928 x 1952 Pixels (5.72 MPixels) (3:2)

In crop mode **GR throws away unused data from sensor**

I don't think it throws away unused data.

Here is a GRii DNG taken with 35mm crop option: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vh0oegi65l2dgkj/S0018727.DNG?dl=0

In DxO Photolab this DNG displays the 4928x3264 uncropped image and the full uncropped image is available for editing, even though the attached JPEG (part of the DNG format) that will be displayed by many viewers (including the dropbox viewer) is cropped to 3936x2608.

thank you for sharing!

I don't have DXO photolab to check it,nor Lightroom to check the plugin shared below.

Thanks for correcting!

rondom Veteran Member • Posts: 3,283
Re: nothing mysterious

lsdphoto wrote:

The RAWs contain the full image data i.e. the 28mm field of view. LR by default shows the DNG cropped if you are in one of the cropped modes. There is a plugin for LR that lets you see the full image:

https://labs.adobe.com/technologies/lightroomplugins/

It is Adobe DNG Recover Edge plug-in

Lee

thank you for the information!

rondom Veteran Member • Posts: 3,283
Wrong info above

rondom wrote:

teemodk wrote:

rondom wrote:

Tungsten Nordstein wrote:

rondom wrote:

Olifaunt wrote:

Also, no pixels are lost, since the raw file has the full uncropped image; only the jpegs are cropped. (Speaking for GRii.)

I’m pretty much sure that’s incorrect. I’ll need to check this tomorrow.

DNGs definitely cropped on my GR2.

The viewers/editors may only show the cropped picture. I have heard of the mentioned plugin, but not that it works for Ricoh...??

I checked this in a "Ricoh blind" DNG viewer which is based on dcraw.

for 35mm crop:

3952 x 2624 Pixels (10.37 MPixels) (3:2)

for 47mm crop:

2928 x 1952 Pixels (5.72 MPixels) (3:2)

In crop mode **GR throws away unused data from sensor**

This makes sense. A Raw shooter who prefers to use the cropped mode should not waste time trying to crop the image. The same principle applies if you want to shoot in a different aspect ratio: Square, 4:3 etc. That's also cropping and the camera behaves in the same manner.

Thank you TN. That’s how I remembered as well.

I see 16MP being up to 23MB and 5.6MP up to 18MB. Just the few I have on my phone. The difference should be bigger unless the compression used are different. In general the cropped pictures file sizes are smaller though. More data (or the plugin) needed for a conclusion.

DNG is lossless compressed data. Depending on the complexity of the scene you will get different size files.

By the way, Ricoh embeds a "full size" jpeg within the raw file. Once again, DNG and jpeg files are equal in pixel dimensions.

Also: I am aware of *lens profiles* for specific cameras- but image size is not part of a camera profile.

Wrong info above

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