Nikon Lens Patents

Started Sep 21, 2019 | Discussions
bclaff Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: Nikon Lens Patents

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

...

This looks like Tale 72 (which I think you wrongly identify as the AF-D lens).
I have this already as a different (perhaps identical) patent.

Nikon AI AF Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8S

OK, yours looks like the AI-S that's not AF.
Looking for an authoritative diagram.

The AIS version and the AF-D version seem to be very similar.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/105mm-f28.htm - manual focus

The tale 72 is about the AF-D version.

I think the patents I list look correct at least visually and from inventor/timeline perspective.

Really?

Tale 72 specifically says "Tale 72 will cover the go-to lens for flower and other types of outdoor macro photography, the AI AF Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8S."
It mentions the 2.8S 17 times and only mentions the 2.8D once near the end.

The 2.8S was released in 1990 and the 2.8D in 1993.
The patent I have for the 2.8S was published in 1991.

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Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

bclaff Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: Nikon Lens Patents

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

A few more additions at: https://cameragossip.github.io/nikon-lens-patents.html

  • 35-70mm f2.8 AIS
  • 105mm f2.8 micro AIS
  • 600mm f4 FL-E
  • 800mm f5.6 FL-E

Nikon AI Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8S

This is not so good a match as I usually accept but I put it in the Optical Bench Hub anyway.
And, it's unclear if that's a Nikon lens construction diagram but it's all I found.

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Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

OP Dibyendu Majumdar Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Re: Nikon Lens Patents

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

...

This looks like Tale 72 (which I think you wrongly identify as the AF-D lens).
I have this already as a different (perhaps identical) patent.

Nikon AI AF Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8S

OK, yours looks like the AI-S that's not AF.
Looking for an authoritative diagram.

The AIS version and the AF-D version seem to be very similar.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/105mm-f28.htm - manual focus

The tale 72 is about the AF-D version.

I think the patents I list look correct at least visually and from inventor/timeline perspective.

Really?

Tale 72 specifically says "Tale 72 will cover the go-to lens for flower and other types of outdoor macro photography, the AI AF Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8S."
It mentions the 2.8S 17 times and only mentions the 2.8D once near the end.

I am not sure I understand your point. There is no difference between AF and AF-D - both refer to the AF version of the lens - except for the distance chip. You can see from the pictures in the tale that it is not about the manual focus version.

The 2.8S was released in 1990 and the 2.8D in 1993.
The patent I have for the 2.8S was published in 1991.

You are talking about the AF version.

I list two patents.

First the manual AIS version that is still in production:

Micro-NIKKOR 105mm f/2.8 AIS US 4392724A Yoshinari Hamanishi 1981

Second the AF version that is referred to in tale 72.

AF-D Micro Nikkor 105mm f2.8 US 4986643A Keiji Moriyama 1988 Subject of Tale 72

Here is the scan of the manual lens.

OP Dibyendu Majumdar Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Re: Nikon Lens Patents

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

A few more additions at: https://cameragossip.github.io/nikon-lens-patents.html

  • 35-70mm f2.8 AIS

Really? The only entry I see is Nikon AI Zoom-Nikkor 35-70mm f/2.8S.
And the patent next to it (US 4806000A) is all 28.8-83.3mm f/3.5-4.0 examples.

Indeed the text says 28-83 but the lens shown is the 35-70mm f2.8. Deliberate obfuscation? I have not yet put the formula in to check.

Update: Upon second look the formula looks close but not exactly the same as in 35-70mm f2.8 so it may not be an exact match.

Okay, looks like this is actually a 28-85mm lens.

The same design is also used in the manual focus version of this lens.

bclaff Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: Nikon Lens Patents

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

A few more additions at: https://cameragossip.github.io/nikon-lens-patents.html

  • 35-70mm f2.8 AIS

Really? The only entry I see is Nikon AI Zoom-Nikkor 35-70mm f/2.8S.
And the patent next to it (US 4806000A) is all 28.8-83.3mm f/3.5-4.0 examples.

Indeed the text says 28-83 but the lens shown is the 35-70mm f2.8. Deliberate obfuscation? I have not yet put the formula in to check.

Update: Upon second look the formula looks close but not exactly the same as in 35-70mm f2.8 so it may not be an exact match.

Okay, looks like this is actually a 28-85mm lens.

The same design is also used in the manual focus version of this lens.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5

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Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

OP Dibyendu Majumdar Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?
bclaff Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?
1

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DWO2020170591A1

Hard to say without a published lens construction diagram. We shall see.

Although I'm writing and revising articles for my site and should not have gotten distracted I entered the patent speculatively; hopefully I have made wise use of my time.

Here's a link to Example 1

You can manipulate the URL to get to the other 9 Examples.

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Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

OP Dibyendu Majumdar Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DWO2020170591A1

Hard to say without a published lens construction diagram. We shall see.

Although I'm writing and revising articles for my site and should not have gotten distracted I entered the patent speculatively; hopefully I have made wise use of my time.

Here's a link to Example 1

You can manipulate the URL to get to the other 9 Examples.

We shall soon find out! I think this lens might be announced in the next few days.

I don't know if you already did some analysis of this - the vignetting or relative efficiency of off-axis rays. I have noticed for the similar focal length some designs have more off axis rays reaching the sensor than others. This might then translate to less light fall off.

Example:

Almost 50% of the off axis rays reach the sensor

versus

bclaff Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DWO2020170591A1

Hard to say without a published lens construction diagram. We shall see.

Although I'm writing and revising articles for my site and should not have gotten distracted I entered the patent speculatively; hopefully I have made wise use of my time.

Here's a link to Example 1

You can manipulate the URL to get to the other 9 Examples.

We shall soon find out! I think this lens might be announced in the next few days.

The announcement won't include a lens construction diagram. That generally comes much later.

I don't know if you already did some analysis of this - the vignetting or relative efficiency of off-axis rays. I have noticed for the similar focal length some designs have more off axis rays reaching the sensor than others. This might then translate to less light fall off.

Example:

Almost 50% of the off axis rays reach the sensor

versus

Are you sure you're looking at the aperture stop for both lenses and not being confused by the flare stop on the second lens?

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Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

OP Dibyendu Majumdar Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DWO2020170591A1

Hard to say without a published lens construction diagram. We shall see.

Although I'm writing and revising articles for my site and should not have gotten distracted I entered the patent speculatively; hopefully I have made wise use of my time.

Here's a link to Example 1

You can manipulate the URL to get to the other 9 Examples.

We shall soon find out! I think this lens might be announced in the next few days.

The announcement won't include a lens construction diagram. That generally comes much later.

I don't know if you already did some analysis of this - the vignetting or relative efficiency of off-axis rays. I have noticed for the similar focal length some designs have more off axis rays reaching the sensor than others. This might then translate to less light fall off.

Example:

Almost 50% of the off axis rays reach the sensor

versus

Are you sure you're looking at the aperture stop for both lenses and not being confused by the flare stop on the second lens?

Sorry I didn't follow. I was looking at the height covered by the off-axis rays at entry.

bclaff Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

...

Sorry I didn't follow. I was looking at the height covered by the off-axis rays at entry.

I'd say it's more relevant to look at how much of the (physical) aperture is used up by the bundle of rays.

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Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

OP Dibyendu Majumdar Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

...

Sorry I didn't follow. I was looking at the height covered by the off-axis rays at entry.

I'd say it's more relevant to look at how much of the (physical) aperture is used up by the bundle of rays.

hmm I think that is not telling us how much of the incoming rays made it to the sensor.

Here is an image from goptical:

This illustrates more clearly what I was trying to say. How many of the incoming off-axis rays end up on the sensor. I guess that with wides this is often like above, but if we compare lenses of similar focal length and there is a difference then, would this not indicate the light gathering ability of a lens?

bclaff Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

...

Sorry I didn't follow. I was looking at the height covered by the off-axis rays at entry.

I'd say it's more relevant to look at how much of the (physical) aperture is used up by the bundle of rays.

hmm I think that is not telling us how much of the incoming rays made it to the sensor.

Here is an image from goptical:

This illustrates more clearly what I was trying to say. How many of the incoming off-axis rays end up on the sensor. I guess that with wides this is often like above, but if we compare lenses of similar focal length and there is a difference then, would this not indicate the light gathering ability of a lens?

I understand what you're trying to do but light grasp is essentially area times solid angle.

Although the rays look like they are using less of the glass if the angle of view is the same then what matters is how much of the entrance pupil area they are using which in turn is proportional to the physical aperture.

If you insist on looking at the incoming rays then look at the width of the beam (perpendicular distance).

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Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

OP Dibyendu Majumdar Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Upcoming 50mm f1.2 Z?

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DWO2020157801A1

Looks like a 35-50mm f1.2 Zoom but maybe they will release it as a prime.

OP Dibyendu Majumdar Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DWO2020170591A1

Hard to say without a published lens construction diagram. We shall see.

Although I'm writing and revising articles for my site and should not have gotten distracted I entered the patent speculatively; hopefully I have made wise use of my time.

Here's a link to Example 1

You can manipulate the URL to get to the other 9 Examples.

So looks like this might be the right patent. Examples on pg 15 and 17 appear closest match.

bclaff Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DWO2020170591A1

Hard to say without a published lens construction diagram. We shall see.

Although I'm writing and revising articles for my site and should not have gotten distracted I entered the patent speculatively; hopefully I have made wise use of my time.

Here's a link to Example 1

You can manipulate the URL to get to the other 9 Examples.

So looks like this might be the right patent. Examples on pg 15 and 17 appear closest match.

Yes, those are the closest but for my purposes not a match.
I think example 9 is the closest.

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Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

OP Dibyendu Majumdar Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DWO2020170591A1

Hard to say without a published lens construction diagram. We shall see.

Although I'm writing and revising articles for my site and should not have gotten distracted I entered the patent speculatively; hopefully I have made wise use of my time.

Here's a link to Example 1

You can manipulate the URL to get to the other 9 Examples.

So looks like this might be the right patent. Examples on pg 15 and 17 appear closest match.

Yes, those are the closest but for my purposes not a match.
I think example 9 is the closest.

Well up to you.

Here is some relevant text from Leica SL summicron patent I recently posted in another thread:

With regard to the solution features specified in the claims it should be noted that in modern optical design use is usually made of automatic correction programs, such as e.g. “Code V” from Optical Research Associates, which are able to calculate, from predefined lens-element sequences and refractive power distributions, proposals for functional lens systems having a correction state optimized for a specific task. On the basis of targeted alterations of the specified parameters by the optical designer, the correction state automatically achieved is improved further in each case.

With the features of claim 1, it is possible in this way already to obtain the design data for radii, lens-element thicknesses, distances between lens elements, refractive indices and Abbe numbers of the optical glasses to be used. When the features specified in the dependent claims are taken into account, the design parameters can be progressively improved in a targeted manner.

So once you have the glass types and element sequence the actual formula can be permuted by software. I would guess many variations are possible by setting different optimization goals.

bclaff Forum Pro • Posts: 10,582
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DWO2020170591A1

Hard to say without a published lens construction diagram. We shall see.

Although I'm writing and revising articles for my site and should not have gotten distracted I entered the patent speculatively; hopefully I have made wise use of my time.

Here's a link to Example 1

You can manipulate the URL to get to the other 9 Examples.

So looks like this might be the right patent. Examples on pg 15 and 17 appear closest match.

Yes, those are the closest but for my purposes not a match.
I think example 9 is the closest.

Well up to you.

...

Not even close, here's example 9 over the Nikon lens construction figure:

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Bill ( Your trusted source for independent sensor data at PhotonsToPhotos )

OP Dibyendu Majumdar Contributing Member • Posts: 766
Re: Upcoming Z 14-24mm ?

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

bclaff wrote:

Dibyendu Majumdar wrote:

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search?q=pn%3DWO2020170591A1

Hard to say without a published lens construction diagram. We shall see.

Although I'm writing and revising articles for my site and should not have gotten distracted I entered the patent speculatively; hopefully I have made wise use of my time.

Here's a link to Example 1

You can manipulate the URL to get to the other 9 Examples.

So looks like this might be the right patent. Examples on pg 15 and 17 appear closest match.

Yes, those are the closest but for my purposes not a match.
I think example 9 is the closest.

Well up to you.

...

Not even close, here's example 9 over the Nikon lens construction figure:

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