Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

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JimKasson
JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 26,237
Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise
19

I've posted quantitative comparisons of the a7RIII and the a7RIV shadow noise performance here. I saw a small advantage for the a7RIV at a few ISO settings, and a small disadvantage at others. In no case did I find the differences at all striking.

Now I've done a visual test, taking the same serial numbered cameras I used for the quantitative test, and ensuring that the test conditions, including lighting, exposure, and camera temperature, were identical. I resampled the images to the same field of view, at a finer pitch than that of either camera so that neither would have an advantage.

Here are the images with Lightroom's default sharpening and noise reduction:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

Here they are with both sharpening and noise reduction turned off:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

I draw the same conclusions from these visuals as I did from the graphs I posted earlier: the a7RIV has only small advantage in shadow noise at a few ISO settings, a disadvantage at some, and the differences are not consequential to normal photography.

Overall, I find the a7RIV comes up short compared to its predecessor, but not short enough that that should discourage an a7RIII owner who wants the capabilities and features of the newer camera.

Jim

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SigZero
SigZero Regular Member • Posts: 385
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

Adobe just published the final version of R4’s profile. I wonder if it helps with strange color cast at ISO3200.

I was also wondering if it would be beneficial to make comparison using optimal exposure strategies for both bodies considering different dual gain points in both,

Br, Paweł

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JimKasson
OP JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 26,237
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

SigZero wrote:

Adobe just published the final version of R4’s profile. I wonder if it helps with strange color cast at ISO3200.

I'll check.

I was also wondering if it would be beneficial to make comparison using optimal exposure strategies for both bodies considering different dual gain points in both,

The images I posted were at ISOs where both cameras were at low conversion gain, ISO's one was at low and one was at high, and ISOs both were at high. I think that's enough to prove the point. The curves I published earlies included all ISOs in 1/3 stop steps.

Jim

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SigZero
SigZero Regular Member • Posts: 385
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise
1

JimKasson wrote:

SigZero wrote:

Adobe just published the final version of R4’s profile. I wonder if it helps with strange color cast at ISO3200.

I'll check.

I was also wondering if it would be beneficial to make comparison using optimal exposure strategies for both bodies considering different dual gain points in both,

The images I posted were at ISOs where both cameras were at low conversion gain, ISO's one was at low and one was at high, and ISOs both were at high. I think that's enough to prove the point. The curves I published earlies included all ISOs in 1/3 stop steps.

Jim

Yep, sure. All is ok.

Although its not the case - I'm made myself into thinking that those are ISO100 shots pushed to equivalent ISOs.  Wrong.

I'd really appreciate Your work.

Br, Pawel.

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bobabend
bobabend Senior Member • Posts: 1,261
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise
3

JimKasson wrote:

I've posted quantitative comparisons of the a7RIII and the a7RIV shadow noise performance here. I saw a small advantage for the a7RIV at a few ISO settings, and a small disadvantage at others. In no case did I find the differences at all striking.

Now I've done a visual test, taking the same serial numbered cameras I used for the quantitative test, and ensuring that the test conditions, including lighting, exposure, and camera temperature, were identical. I resampled the images to the same field of view, at a finer pitch than that of either camera so that neither would have an advantage.

Here are the images with Lightroom's default sharpening and noise reduction:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

Here they are with both sharpening and noise reduction turned off:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

I draw the same conclusions from these visuals as I did from the graphs I posted earlier: the a7RIV has only small advantage in shadow noise at a few ISO settings, a disadvantage at some, and the differences are not consequential to normal photography.

Overall, I find the a7RIV comes up short compared to its predecessor, but not short enough that that should discourage an a7RIII owner who wants the capabilities and features of the newer camera.

Jim

Thanks Jim. I came to the same conclusions in a much less scientific manner and appreciate your confirmation. Again, I think Sony did a good job of maintaining similar performance with smaller pixels . . . not a trivial accomplishment.

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Stephen Starkman
Stephen Starkman Junior Member • Posts: 38
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

Jim,

Any idea why we're seeing so many random red dots in the rIV images (both series with and without NR/Sharpen on)?

I've had a peer report red dots too - but I don't have enough details from him.

I have an rIV as well....

BTW, thanks again for your work!

Stephen

JimKasson wrote:

I've posted quantitative comparisons of the a7RIII and the a7RIV shadow noise performance here. I saw a small advantage for the a7RIV at a few ISO settings, and a small disadvantage at others. In no case did I find the differences at all striking.

Now I've done a visual test, taking the same serial numbered cameras I used for the quantitative test, and ensuring that the test conditions, including lighting, exposure, and camera temperature, were identical. I resampled the images to the same field of view, at a finer pitch than that of either camera so that neither would have an advantage.

Here are the images with Lightroom's default sharpening and noise reduction:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

Here they are with both sharpening and noise reduction turned off:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

I draw the same conclusions from these visuals as I did from the graphs I posted earlier: the a7RIV has only small advantage in shadow noise at a few ISO settings, a disadvantage at some, and the differences are not consequential to normal photography.

Overall, I find the a7RIV comes up short compared to its predecessor, but not short enough that that should discourage an a7RIII owner who wants the capabilities and features of the newer camera.

Jim

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JimKasson
OP JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 26,237
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

SigZero wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

SigZero wrote:

Adobe just published the final version of R4’s profile. I wonder if it helps with strange color cast at ISO3200.

I'll check.

I was also wondering if it would be beneficial to make comparison using optimal exposure strategies for both bodies considering different dual gain points in both,

The images I posted were at ISOs where both cameras were at low conversion gain, ISO's one was at low and one was at high, and ISOs both were at high. I think that's enough to prove the point. The curves I published earlies included all ISOs in 1/3 stop steps.

Jim

Yep, sure. All is ok.

Although its not the case - I'm made myself into thinking that those are ISO100 shots pushed to equivalent ISOs. Wrong.

You’ve got it now. All were pushed five stops.

I'd really appreciate Your work.

You are quite welcome.

Br, Pawel.

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JimKasson
OP JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 26,237
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

Stephen Starkman wrote:

Jim,

Any idea why we're seeing so many random red dots in the rIV images (both series with and without NR/Sharpen on)?

I noticed that as well, but I don’t have a good explanation. It may be a combination of higher pixel level noise and a different CFA filter set.

I've had a peer report red dots too - but I don't have enough details from him.

I have an rIV as well....

BTW, thanks again for your work!

It’s a pleasure.

Stephen

JimKasson wrote:

I've posted quantitative comparisons of the a7RIII and the a7RIV shadow noise performance here. I saw a small advantage for the a7RIV at a few ISO settings, and a small disadvantage at others. In no case did I find the differences at all striking.

Now I've done a visual test, taking the same serial numbered cameras I used for the quantitative test, and ensuring that the test conditions, including lighting, exposure, and camera temperature, were identical. I resampled the images to the same field of view, at a finer pitch than that of either camera so that neither would have an advantage.

Here are the images with Lightroom's default sharpening and noise reduction:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

Here they are with both sharpening and noise reduction turned off:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

I draw the same conclusions from these visuals as I did from the graphs I posted earlier: the a7RIV has only small advantage in shadow noise at a few ISO settings, a disadvantage at some, and the differences are not consequential to normal photography.

Overall, I find the a7RIV comes up short compared to its predecessor, but not short enough that that should discourage an a7RIII owner who wants the capabilities and features of the newer camera.

Jim

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,235
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise
5

Thanks for doing that Jim.

I would not call those differences minor. I find them quite a large degradation. I suppose at normal viewing size it would not seem so bad.

Another aspect that would be worth checking is a long exposure - say 30 seconds ISO3200. That's a common setting for nightscapes. I find the A7rii and iii give red/blue colour speckle noise in the shadow areas of a 30 second or less nightscape image. Not the sky areas usually its the foreground that is usually quite dark.

I see a lot more green noise in the higher ISO shots. Interesting, that may be the star eater at work. If you are seeing more red dots then perhaps they have "tweaked" the star eater filter to hit blue more and leave red alone.

Overall this camera seems a disappointment for nightscapes and a step back from the iii which was a reasonable step up from the ii. Perhaps the A7r has been the best of them all. I think we are seeing a technological wall where Sony seemed to be able to add some new feature to the earlier sensors and there's not much left to extract. Like some of those old inline 6 cylinder engines that were refined and refined until there was nowhere left to go.

A7siii may bring a big improvement here. Some new approach like that in SAR about different exposure times for different pixels within a block with a different colour matrix.A HDR type mode.

Greg.

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Stephen Starkman
Stephen Starkman Junior Member • Posts: 38
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

Hi Jim,

I had some A7rIV files laying around (haha) taken in the daytime outdoors. I opened them up in LR (with the new final profile), pushed them +5 and zoomed in 2:1. Looked at ISO 400 and 500.

No red dots. All around, better performance than I expected after reading your results (maybe I missed something).

However,

Your exposures were considerably longer at 2sec - mine at 1/100 or 1/60th. I think this may be a clue.

Without push:

With push:

and a 1:1 crop (image viewed at 2:1 in LRClassic):

JimKasson wrote:

Stephen Starkman wrote:

Jim,

Any idea why we're seeing so many random red dots in the rIV images (both series with and without NR/Sharpen on)?

I noticed that as well, but I don’t have a good explanation. It may be a combination of higher pixel level noise and a different CFA filter set.

I've had a peer report red dots too - but I don't have enough details from him.

I have an rIV as well....

BTW, thanks again for your work!

It’s a pleasure.

Stephen

JimKasson wrote:

I've posted quantitative comparisons of the a7RIII and the a7RIV shadow noise performance here. I saw a small advantage for the a7RIV at a few ISO settings, and a small disadvantage at others. In no case did I find the differences at all striking.

Now I've done a visual test, taking the same serial numbered cameras I used for the quantitative test, and ensuring that the test conditions, including lighting, exposure, and camera temperature, were identical. I resampled the images to the same field of view, at a finer pitch than that of either camera so that neither would have an advantage.

Here are the images with Lightroom's default sharpening and noise reduction:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

Here they are with both sharpening and noise reduction turned off:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

I draw the same conclusions from these visuals as I did from the graphs I posted earlier: the a7RIV has only small advantage in shadow noise at a few ISO settings, a disadvantage at some, and the differences are not consequential to normal photography.

Overall, I find the a7RIV comes up short compared to its predecessor, but not short enough that that should discourage an a7RIII owner who wants the capabilities and features of the newer camera.

Jim

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JimKasson
OP JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 26,237
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

Are these five stops underexposed? Doesn’t look like it.

Stephen Starkman wrote:

Hi Jim,

I had some A7rIV files laying around (haha) taken in the daytime outdoors. I opened them up in LR (with the new final profile), pushed them +5 and zoomed in 2:1. Looked at ISO 400 and 500.

My ISO 400 shots were at 1/100.

No red dots. All around, better performance than I expected after reading your results (maybe I missed something).

However,

Your exposures were considerably longer at 2sec - mine at 1/100 or 1/60th. I think this may be a clue.

Without push:

With push:

and a 1:1 crop (image viewed at 2:1 in LRClassic):

JimKasson wrote:

Stephen Starkman wrote:

Jim,

Any idea why we're seeing so many random red dots in the rIV images (both series with and without NR/Sharpen on)?

I noticed that as well, but I don’t have a good explanation. It may be a combination of higher pixel level noise and a different CFA filter set.

I've had a peer report red dots too - but I don't have enough details from him.

I have an rIV as well....

BTW, thanks again for your work!

It’s a pleasure.

Stephen

JimKasson wrote:

I've posted quantitative comparisons of the a7RIII and the a7RIV shadow noise performance here. I saw a small advantage for the a7RIV at a few ISO settings, and a small disadvantage at others. In no case did I find the differences at all striking.

Now I've done a visual test, taking the same serial numbered cameras I used for the quantitative test, and ensuring that the test conditions, including lighting, exposure, and camera temperature, were identical. I resampled the images to the same field of view, at a finer pitch than that of either camera so that neither would have an advantage.

Here are the images with Lightroom's default sharpening and noise reduction:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

Here they are with both sharpening and noise reduction turned off:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

I draw the same conclusions from these visuals as I did from the graphs I posted earlier: the a7RIV has only small advantage in shadow noise at a few ISO settings, a disadvantage at some, and the differences are not consequential to normal photography.

Overall, I find the a7RIV comes up short compared to its predecessor, but not short enough that that should discourage an a7RIII owner who wants the capabilities and features of the newer camera.

Jim

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Stephen Starkman
Stephen Starkman Junior Member • Posts: 38
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

Jim,

Nope, you're right. They were properly exposed. Got my thinking wordsback.

I was thinking push without the "recovery". Thanks for pointing that out.

Still perturbed by the red dots.....

Stephen

JimKasson wrote:

Are these five stops underexposed? Doesn’t look like it.

Stephen Starkman wrote:

Hi Jim,

I had some A7rIV files laying around (haha) taken in the daytime outdoors. I opened them up in LR (with the new final profile), pushed them +5 and zoomed in 2:1. Looked at ISO 400 and 500.

My ISO 400 shots were at 1/100.

No red dots. All around, better performance than I expected after reading your results (maybe I missed something).

However,

Your exposures were considerably longer at 2sec - mine at 1/100 or 1/60th. I think this may be a clue.

Without push:

With push:

and a 1:1 crop (image viewed at 2:1 in LRClassic):

JimKasson wrote:

Stephen Starkman wrote:

Jim,

Any idea why we're seeing so many random red dots in the rIV images (both series with and without NR/Sharpen on)?

I noticed that as well, but I don’t have a good explanation. It may be a combination of higher pixel level noise and a different CFA filter set.

I've had a peer report red dots too - but I don't have enough details from him.

I have an rIV as well....

BTW, thanks again for your work!

It’s a pleasure.

Stephen

JimKasson wrote:

I've posted quantitative comparisons of the a7RIII and the a7RIV shadow noise performance here. I saw a small advantage for the a7RIV at a few ISO settings, and a small disadvantage at others. In no case did I find the differences at all striking.

Now I've done a visual test, taking the same serial numbered cameras I used for the quantitative test, and ensuring that the test conditions, including lighting, exposure, and camera temperature, were identical. I resampled the images to the same field of view, at a finer pitch than that of either camera so that neither would have an advantage.

Here are the images with Lightroom's default sharpening and noise reduction:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

Here they are with both sharpening and noise reduction turned off:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

I draw the same conclusions from these visuals as I did from the graphs I posted earlier: the a7RIV has only small advantage in shadow noise at a few ISO settings, a disadvantage at some, and the differences are not consequential to normal photography.

Overall, I find the a7RIV comes up short compared to its predecessor, but not short enough that that should discourage an a7RIII owner who wants the capabilities and features of the newer camera.

Jim

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Astrophotographer 10 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,235
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

I don't know if this is related to the BSI nature of the sensor (the A7r did not do this red/blue speckle/dots in shadows, the A7rii,iii and possibly the iv do). I only see a few red spots. Do a 30 second ISO3200 night shot and you may see way more in the dark areas of the image.

But the Photoshop dust and scratches filter set to 1 cleans it up instantly.

Now that excess green is another thing. I think that is the one to worry about.

This sort of thread is probably the reason Sony will not enable their star eater filtering to be turned off as internet traffic will blow it up as a big defect - all this colour noise.

Greg.

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JimKasson
OP JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 26,237
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

This sort of thread is probably the reason Sony will not enable their star eater filtering to be turned off as internet traffic will blow it up as a big defect - all this colour noise.

I don't mind being able to filter out noise. I just want to do it in post. And I want to control when I do it, not the camera calling the shots.

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allnew Junior Member • Posts: 34
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise
2

JimKasson wrote:

I've posted quantitative comparisons of the a7RIII and the a7RIV shadow noise performance here. I saw a small advantage for the a7RIV at a few ISO settings, and a small disadvantage at others. In no case did I find the differences at all striking.

Now I've done a visual test, taking the same serial numbered cameras I used for the quantitative test, and ensuring that the test conditions, including lighting, exposure, and camera temperature, were identical. I resampled the images to the same field of view, at a finer pitch than that of either camera so that neither would have an advantage.

Here are the images with Lightroom's default sharpening and noise reduction:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

Here they are with both sharpening and noise reduction turned off:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

I draw the same conclusions from these visuals as I did from the graphs I posted earlier: the a7RIV has only small advantage in shadow noise at a few ISO settings, a disadvantage at some, and the differences are not consequential to normal photography.

Overall, I find the a7RIV comes up short compared to its predecessor, but not short enough that that should discourage an a7RIII owner who wants the capabilities and features of the newer camera.

Jim

After reading this and posts on other forums I have a hard time finding justifications for my A7R IV. Like everybody here I am trying to find benefits in image quality department and they are just "academic", as the camera delivered primarily in a convenience department: easier focus on eyes, ergonomics, etc. But the core of the new camera the  better IQ is not here, if not to be diplomatic. I came from A9/A7 III  and don't have an experience  with high density sensors as experienced users  here and so just have a naive question if I should return the camera as I still have one week window? Please advise.

JimKasson
OP JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 26,237
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise
3

allnew wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

I've posted quantitative comparisons of the a7RIII and the a7RIV shadow noise performance here. I saw a small advantage for the a7RIV at a few ISO settings, and a small disadvantage at others. In no case did I find the differences at all striking.

Now I've done a visual test, taking the same serial numbered cameras I used for the quantitative test, and ensuring that the test conditions, including lighting, exposure, and camera temperature, were identical. I resampled the images to the same field of view, at a finer pitch than that of either camera so that neither would have an advantage.

Here are the images with Lightroom's default sharpening and noise reduction:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

Here they are with both sharpening and noise reduction turned off:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

I draw the same conclusions from these visuals as I did from the graphs I posted earlier: the a7RIV has only small advantage in shadow noise at a few ISO settings, a disadvantage at some, and the differences are not consequential to normal photography.

Overall, I find the a7RIV comes up short compared to its predecessor, but not short enough that that should discourage an a7RIII owner who wants the capabilities and features of the newer camera.

Jim

After reading this and posts on other forums I have a hard time finding justifications for my A7R IV. Like everybody here I am trying to find benefits in image quality department and they are just "academic", as the camera delivered primarily in a convenience department: easier focus on eyes, ergonomics, etc. But the core of the new camera the better IQ is not here, if not to be diplomatic. I came from A9/A7 III and don't have an experience with high density sensors as experienced users here and so just have a naive question if I should return the camera as I still have one week window? Please advise.

I can't just tell you what the camera will and won't do. I can't tell you what kind of camera will suit the kind of photography you want to do without knowing a heck of a lot about what kind of photography you want to do.

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LarryRC Regular Member • Posts: 106
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise
1

JimKasson wrote:

allnew wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

I've posted quantitative comparisons of the a7RIII and the a7RIV shadow noise performance here. I saw a small advantage for the a7RIV at a few ISO settings, and a small disadvantage at others. In no case did I find the differences at all striking.

Now I've done a visual test, taking the same serial numbered cameras I used for the quantitative test, and ensuring that the test conditions, including lighting, exposure, and camera temperature, were identical. I resampled the images to the same field of view, at a finer pitch than that of either camera so that neither would have an advantage.

Here are the images with Lightroom's default sharpening and noise reduction:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

Here they are with both sharpening and noise reduction turned off:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

I draw the same conclusions from these visuals as I did from the graphs I posted earlier: the a7RIV has only small advantage in shadow noise at a few ISO settings, a disadvantage at some, and the differences are not consequential to normal photography.

Overall, I find the a7RIV comes up short compared to its predecessor, but not short enough that that should discourage an a7RIII owner who wants the capabilities and features of the newer camera.

Jim

After reading this and posts on other forums I have a hard time finding justifications for my A7R IV. Like everybody here I am trying to find benefits in image quality department and they are just "academic", as the camera delivered primarily in a convenience department: easier focus on eyes, ergonomics, etc. But the core of the new camera the better IQ is not here, if not to be diplomatic. I came from A9/A7 III and don't have an experience with high density sensors as experienced users here and so just have a naive question if I should return the camera as I still have one week window? Please advise.

I can't just tell you what the camera will and won't do. I can't tell you what kind of camera will suit the kind of photography you want to do without knowing a heck of a lot about what kind of photography you want to do.

I’m keeping mine.  I can easily find more detail at higher iso with the iv over the iii.  At say 6400 the added detail is more obvious than at lower iso.

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Entropy512 Senior Member • Posts: 4,505
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise
1

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

A7siii may bring a big improvement here. Some new approach like that in SAR about different exposure times for different pixels within a block with a different colour matrix.A HDR type mode.

For the most part, this strategy is really only potentially beneficial for video, or any other scenario where it's simply not feasible to divide a single exposure into two half-time exposures.

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Sony a6000 Pentax K-5 Pentax K-01 Sony a6300 Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +5 more
JimKasson
OP JimKasson Forum Pro • Posts: 26,237
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise

JimKasson wrote:

I can't just tell you what the camera will and won't do. I can't tell you what kind of camera will suit the kind of photography you want to do without knowing a heck of a lot about what kind of photography you want to do.

I meant to say: "I can just tell you what the camera will and won't do."

Sorry.

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bob13bob Contributing Member • Posts: 942
Re: Visual comparisons of a7RIII, a7RIV shadow noise
1

allnew wrote:

JimKasson wrote:

I've posted quantitative comparisons of the a7RIII and the a7RIV shadow noise performance here. I saw a small advantage for the a7RIV at a few ISO settings, and a small disadvantage at others. In no case did I find the differences at all striking.

Now I've done a visual test, taking the same serial numbered cameras I used for the quantitative test, and ensuring that the test conditions, including lighting, exposure, and camera temperature, were identical. I resampled the images to the same field of view, at a finer pitch than that of either camera so that neither would have an advantage.

Here are the images with Lightroom's default sharpening and noise reduction:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

Here they are with both sharpening and noise reduction turned off:

https://blog.kasson.com/a7riv/sony-a7riii-a7riv-visual-shadow-noise/

I draw the same conclusions from these visuals as I did from the graphs I posted earlier: the a7RIV has only small advantage in shadow noise at a few ISO settings, a disadvantage at some, and the differences are not consequential to normal photography.

Overall, I find the a7RIV comes up short compared to its predecessor, but not short enough that that should discourage an a7RIII owner who wants the capabilities and features of the newer camera.

Jim

After reading this and posts on other forums I have a hard time finding justifications for my A7R IV. Like everybody here I am trying to find benefits in image quality department and they are just "academic", as the camera delivered primarily in a convenience department: easier focus on eyes, ergonomics, etc. But the core of the new camera the better IQ is not here, if not to be diplomatic. I came from A9/A7 III and don't have an experience with high density sensors as experienced users here and so just have a naive question if I should return the camera as I still have one week window? Please advise.

From my own experience. If you feel like that already, I would return it.  People on budgets should wait at least every other gen before upgrading too.

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my equipment: a7iii. NATIVE: sony 50 1.8. samyang 35 2.8. ADAPTED: sigma mc11 adapter. canon 85mm 1.8. sigma (canon) 12-24 4-5.6. canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6 is ii.

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