DPReview.com is closing April 10th - Find out more

Is Canon exiting UW photography? Needlessly.

Started Sep 16, 2019 | Discussions
Richard Horner Regular Member • Posts: 160
Is Canon exiting UW photography? Needlessly.

Canon used to rule underwater compact cameras...
Literally everyone i knew had them, and anyone with the competition's cameras was crap by comparison.

tl:dr
1) Once-Click Custom white balance... Gone!
2) The SXX-S1XX line... Gone!
...with the compatibility with wide angle domes... Gone!
...and the usability of the internal strobe... Gone!
3) Underwater White Balance... Gone!
4) Their Underwater Housings... Gone!

1) The original killer feature... Gone!
Canon compacts had true One-Button Custom White Balance... You didn't have to look what you were doing!
Unless you were shooting exclusively raw, it's awesome if you could get pretty decent colour jpegs with almost no effort. Custom white balance enabled that.
With Custom White Balance set up on the Shortcut button, you could simply point your camera at the palm of your hand, press the shortcut button, and it would sample the white balance at the depth you were at... Something you needed to do whenever you changed depth... So many, many times during a dive. It was effortless. And using the palm of your hand was 'white enough'... when comparing it with the WhiBal grey slates i later bought, it was essentially the same.
So swimming over to any action or fish you like the look of, you'd set the custom white balance off to your side, using your hand, without taking your eye off the subject. Killer.
But with the G7X MK II, that feature has been nuked, with the introduction of the dSLR style menu system...
Now you have to take a photo of a white card, slate, then go to the menus and tell it to sample that. This demands you study the camera menus, take extra photos, press lots of buttons... So it's a massive ball ache. And a task loader... UW photography is 'dodgy' enough as a distraction away from your diving, but adding this concentration on a camera menu system is needless and unwanted.
The change to Canon's underwater white balance when the S100 & G12 came out, did revolutionise the need for custom white balance... up to the S95, and other compacts of that time, the Underwater scene and white balance was lovely in the shallows, down to 5m say... Below that it was just bluuuuuuuuuuuuuue.  So custom WB was absolutely necessary.  And worked amazingly, and easily, as detailed above.  The  S100 & G12 had an awesome overhaul of the UW WB.  Basically, you could get decent results down to 25-30m... which is most diving.  Below this, you would often choose to revert to the trusty custom WB, as it was better. I spent quite a while shooting both UW WB and Custom WB of the same scenes and this is what i found.
So this new UW WB reduced the need of Custom White Balance, but certainly didn't remove it. At all.
It would have been amazing to have both the 'Classic' UW WB, and the new UW WB available, as the classic one was nicer in the shallows, especially shooting upwards, into the sun, etc.  But yeah, that's being greedy! lol.

2) The SXX-S1XX line... Gone!
The S90, S95, S100, S110 & S120 line were killer models... They were true compact size, which meant they had fairly small UW housings, and their lenses didn't extend much, which meant that the housing's port didn't extend out the front too much, which meant two things...  first, that this enabled the use of the camera's own internal strobe for so many common shots. Only extreme macro, where the subject was right infront of the port did a shadow get cast over the frame. And much of the time you could just zoom in a bit in macro mode and the shadow is out of sight.
Allowing the use of the internal strobe was a killer feature.
And then, there was the fact that this short lens movement, and therefore the port being close to the front of the lens when zoomed out, this allowed the use of very wide angle dome wet lenses. With little or no vignetting, or need for zooming in much, if at all.
Those that had any of the G10-16 cameras were always sad about how long their ports were, and how not very wide wide angle any dome ports were when fitted... Needing lots of zooming in t remove the vignetting.   Oh and the big shaddows too, so the internal strobe was almost useless.
The ability to use either the lens normally, with a super macro wet lens OR an ultra wide angle dome wet lens, that can be changed at leisure, any time during any dive...  Not a pre-dive decision, that you regret when the whale shark swims past and you've got your macro lens on...  This was a killer feature.

3) Underwater White Balance... Gone!
Now we have the new G7 X MK III... It simply doesn't have an Underwater White Balance, and not a single mention of it in the manual. Eh????
I can't see any listings of housing either.
OK, if you're shooting with strobes exclusively, this has no relevance. And if you shoot exclusively raw, the same. But if you're shooting natural light shots and in jpeg, this is essentially broken. Also, if you're shooting video underwater, with natural light. This is broken too. It used to be excellent with the UW WB. Especially if you were panning and tilting and changing depth, as it would deal with the changes excellently.
Without an UW WB, everything is just going to be greeeeeeeeeeeeen or bluuuuuuuuuue.

4) Their Underwater Housings... Gone!
It used to be the cheapest and a very decent setup to go and buy.
Get a canon compact camera, it's canon underwater housing for it, and you were set! The were capable of 40m officially, with 50+ in real world use (buttons don't spring back out, is the 1st 'problem' you get with going too deep, long before it leaks). They were fairly small, so you could often stick them in your BCD pocket, or just let it float above your shoulder, off you arm. And they had the low profile ports, so on the S line, and other compacts, this meant that the internal strobe was perfectly usable, as above.
Their only real issue, was their choice of chromed brass pins for their buttons... They would get scored by sand, mineral deposits over time, with use and misuse, etc... leading to small leaks of a few drops of water appearing in your housing, which would then get 'sucked' up by capillary action into the joints and buttons of the case. This could have easily been resolved by using stainless steel pins, as found on the Nauticam and other good housing. Only a few cents difference in prime cost.  Doh.  There were lots of people that blamed these housing for being bad and leaking... But every example i saw, and i saw many, lol, were almost certainly lack of attention and care when closing the housing... A bad workman always blames his tools.
So, with the G9X a couple of years ago, which was the kind of 'successor' to the S line, this simply didn't have a housing. And also didn't have the underwater scene or white balance.
Oh, and that G9X removed most of the buttons... Essentially changing it from a 'pro' style compact, to a consumer compact.  'Pros' like buttons... as they learn them and use them and want the positive feedback of pressing them.  Touchscreens should be in addition, not a replacement.  Doh.
OK, Fantasea, Nauticam, Ikelite, etc, etc, etc...  They all started making better housings, but the canon ones were not bad.  If you looked after them... And they were cheaper and smaller.  So i can see that Canon might not bother making them, as their sales must have shrunk.  Which is sad.
BUT
You don't then strip out all the underwater features of your cameras, the features that made you cameras the unrivalled best choice for an UW compact setup...
Removing these features, just because you're not manufacturing a housing for that model, is strange... stupid... or spiteful.
Please Canon.  Restore your killer features!

NextShowForSure Contributing Member • Posts: 765
Re: Is Canon exiting UW photography? Needlessly.

Richard Horner wrote:

Canon used to rule underwater compact cameras...
Literally everyone i knew had them, and anyone with the competition's cameras was crap by comparison.

tl:dr
1) Once-Click Custom white balance... Gone!
2) The SXX-S1XX line... Gone!
...with the compatibility with wide angle domes... Gone!
...and the usability of the internal strobe... Gone!
3) Underwater White Balance... Gone!
4) Their Underwater Housings... Gone!

1) The original killer feature... Gone!
Canon compacts had true One-Button Custom White Balance... You didn't have to look what you were doing!
Unless you were shooting exclusively raw, it's awesome if you could get pretty decent colour jpegs with almost no effort. Custom white balance enabled that.
With Custom White Balance set up on the Shortcut button, you could simply point your camera at the palm of your hand, press the shortcut button, and it would sample the white balance at the depth you were at... Something you needed to do whenever you changed depth... So many, many times during a dive. It was effortless. And using the palm of your hand was 'white enough'... when comparing it with the WhiBal grey slates i later bought, it was essentially the same.
So swimming over to any action or fish you like the look of, you'd set the custom white balance off to your side, using your hand, without taking your eye off the subject. Killer.
But with the G7X MK II, that feature has been nuked, with the introduction of the dSLR style menu system...
Now you have to take a photo of a white card, slate, then go to the menus and tell it to sample that. This demands you study the camera menus, take extra photos, press lots of buttons... So it's a massive ball ache. And a task loader... UW photography is 'dodgy' enough as a distraction away from your diving, but adding this concentration on a camera menu system is needless and unwanted.
The change to Canon's underwater white balance when the S100 & G12 came out, did revolutionise the need for custom white balance... up to the S95, and other compacts of that time, the Underwater scene and white balance was lovely in the shallows, down to 5m say... Below that it was just bluuuuuuuuuuuuuue. So custom WB was absolutely necessary. And worked amazingly, and easily, as detailed above. The S100 & G12 had an awesome overhaul of the UW WB. Basically, you could get decent results down to 25-30m... which is most diving. Below this, you would often choose to revert to the trusty custom WB, as it was better. I spent quite a while shooting both UW WB and Custom WB of the same scenes and this is what i found.
So this new UW WB reduced the need of Custom White Balance, but certainly didn't remove it. At all.
It would have been amazing to have both the 'Classic' UW WB, and the new UW WB available, as the classic one was nicer in the shallows, especially shooting upwards, into the sun, etc. But yeah, that's being greedy! lol.

2) The SXX-S1XX line... Gone!
The S90, S95, S100, S110 & S120 line were killer models... They were true compact size, which meant they had fairly small UW housings, and their lenses didn't extend much,

Where would they get a stand alone 1/1.7" sensor nowadays? Any ones around of this size are probably built direct in to smartphone camera modules.

Welcome to the modern compact camera market. Everyone is suffering.

which meant that the housing's port didn't extend out the front too much, which meant two things... first, that this enabled the use of the camera's own internal strobe for so many common shots. Only extreme macro, where the subject was right infront of the port did a shadow get cast over the frame. And much of the time you could just zoom in a bit in macro mode and the shadow is out of sight.
Allowing the use of the internal strobe was a killer feature.
And then, there was the fact that this short lens movement, and therefore the port being close to the front of the lens when zoomed out, this allowed the use of very wide angle dome wet lenses. With little or no vignetting, or need for zooming in much, if at all.
Those that had any of the G10-16 cameras were always sad about how long their ports were, and how not very wide wide angle any dome ports were when fitted... Needing lots of zooming in t remove the vignetting. Oh and the big shaddows too, so the internal strobe was almost useless.
The ability to use either the lens normally, with a super macro wet lens OR an ultra wide angle dome wet lens, that can be changed at leisure, any time during any dive... Not a pre-dive decision, that you regret when the whale shark swims past and you've got your macro lens on... This was a killer feature.

3) Underwater White Balance... Gone!
Now we have the new G7 X MK III... It simply doesn't have an Underwater White Balance, and not a single mention of it in the manual. Eh????
I can't see any listings of housing either.
OK, if you're shooting with strobes exclusively, this has no relevance. And if you shoot exclusively raw, the same. But if you're shooting natural light shots and in jpeg, this is essentially broken. Also, if you're shooting video underwater, with natural light. This is broken too. It used to be excellent with the UW WB. Especially if you were panning and tilting and changing depth, as it would deal with the changes excellently.
Without an UW WB, everything is just going to be greeeeeeeeeeeeen or bluuuuuuuuuue.

4) Their Underwater Housings... Gone!

A small percentage of a very diminished camera market. Just a matter probably of it becoming less than the critical mass to be cost effective. In 2008 camera sales it was probably a significant element.

It used to be the cheapest and a very decent setup to go and buy.
Get a canon compact camera, it's canon underwater housing for it, and you were set! The were capable of 40m officially, with 50+ in real world use (buttons don't spring back out, is the 1st 'problem' you get with going too deep, long before it leaks). They were fairly small, so you could often stick them in your BCD pocket, or just let it float above your shoulder, off you arm. And they had the low profile ports, so on the S line, and other compacts, this meant that the internal strobe was perfectly usable, as above.
Their only real issue, was their choice of chromed brass pins for their buttons... They would get scored by sand, mineral deposits over time, with use and misuse, etc... leading to small leaks of a few drops of water appearing in your housing, which would then get 'sucked' up by capillary action into the joints and buttons of the case. This could have easily been resolved by using stainless steel pins, as found on the Nauticam and other good housing. Only a few cents difference in prime cost. Doh. There were lots of people that blamed these housing for being bad and leaking... But every example i saw, and i saw many, lol, were almost certainly lack of attention and care when closing the housing... A bad workman always blames his tools.
So, with the G9X a couple of years ago, which was the kind of 'successor' to the S line, this simply didn't have a housing. And also didn't have the underwater scene or white balance.
Oh, and that G9X removed most of the buttons... Essentially changing it from a 'pro' style compact, to a consumer compact. 'Pros' like buttons... as they learn them and use them and want the positive feedback of pressing them. Touchscreens should be in addition, not a replacement. Doh.

The truly pocketable 1" camera because many physical controls have been ditched. It works really well with its touchscreen interface backed up by the lens dial for the majority of users. It is difficult to see how Canon could have a viable commercial model focusing primarily on underwater use in control layout.

OK, Fantasea, Nauticam, Ikelite, etc, etc, etc... They all started making better housings, but the canon ones were not bad. If you looked after them... And they were cheaper and smaller. So i can see that Canon might not bother making them, as their sales must have shrunk. Which is sad.
BUT
You don't then strip out all the underwater features of your cameras, the features that made you cameras the unrivalled best choice for an UW compact setup...
Removing these features, just because you're not manufacturing a housing for that model, is strange... stupid... or spiteful.
Please Canon. Restore your killer features!

Rock and Rollei Senior Member • Posts: 2,903
Re: Is Canon exiting UW photography? Needlessly.
1

Richard Horner wrote:

Oh, and that G9X removed most of the buttons... Essentially changing it from a 'pro' style compact, to a consumer compact. 'Pros' like buttons...

Do we? I must've missed that memo.
As a pro, I use the G9X because it's simple to use, small to carry, and produces pretty good IQ in decent light. I use it for location reconnaissance.
As to underwater use, I suspect that compacts have been completely squeezed out by action cams at the lower end, and ILCs with bigger sensors at the other end. Canon will know how many housings they've been selling, and wouldn't pull out of a profitable market.

 Rock and Rollei's gear list:Rock and Rollei's gear list
Canon EOS 5DS R Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Canon EOS R Canon EOS M6 II Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM +29 more
dhaas Forum Member • Posts: 61
Re: Is Canon exiting UW photography? Needlessly.
1

I switched to a compact camera exclusively 3 years ago ditching all my SLR stuff. Full disclosure I'm a long tim Ikelite and for 3 years a Fantasea dealer.

I too was disappointed to find no "Fish Mode" white balance in the G7X III and G5X II models when checking them out recently.

I use the "Fish Mode" a lot on my G7X II afor ambient light shooting. The loss of the one touch while balance present in the original G7X (and G9X I think) was sad....

I've found you can bias in 9 steps more amber or blue in ANY of the white balance choices to further refine the "Fish mode". While not a one touch white balance it's still pretty darn good.

I also agree the little Canon housings weren't as bad as some people think. I've found many people are simply not mechanically inclined understanding where an o-ring seals, what to look for when closing and opening) any housing, etc.

That said, the Fantasea choices for Canon G7X II and G9X II are very robust and have held up well for me and my customers. Paired with super small but capable Inon S2000 flash unit(s) I've never been held back to enjoy UW photography. Plus I travel a lot lighter now!

Just one old guy's opinion (diving 50 years in 2020!)

David Haas

Ambient light photo in "Fish Mode" aka underwater white balance Canon G7X II in Fantasea housing.

Canon G7X II in Fantasea housing with dual Inon S2000 flashes.

Canon G7X II in Fantasea housing with dual Inon S2000 flashes.

Canon G7X II ambient light silhouette of  whale shark and cinematographer

in the Philippines.

 dhaas's gear list:dhaas's gear list
Canon G7 X II Apple iPhone 13 Pro Max
NextShowForSure Contributing Member • Posts: 765
Re: Is Canon exiting UW photography? Needlessly.

dhaas wrote:

I switched to a compact camera exclusively 3 years ago ditching all my SLR stuff. Full disclosure I'm a long tim Ikelite and for 3 years a Fantasea dealer.

I too was disappointed to find no "Fish Mode" white balance in the G7X III and G5X II models when checking them out recently.

I use the "Fish Mode" a lot on my G7X II afor ambient light shooting. The loss of the one touch while balance present in the original G7X (and G9X I think) was sad....

I've found you can bias in 9 steps more amber or blue in ANY of the white balance choices to further refine the "Fish mode". While not a one touch white balance it's still pretty darn good.

I also agree the little Canon housings weren't as bad as some people think. I've found many people are simply not mechanically inclined understanding where an o-ring seals, what to look for when closing and opening) any housing, etc.

That said, the Fantasea choices for Canon G7X II and G9X II are very robust and have held up well for me and my customers. Paired with super small but capable Inon S2000 flash unit(s) I've never been held back to enjoy UW photography. Plus I travel a lot lighter now!

Just one old guy's opinion (diving 50 years in 2020!)

David Haas

I really find the idea of using flash, especially coupled with I never held back, in these wild naturally dim places really disturbing. Flash is annoying enough in the air world. Surely there are enough pictures of these fishes and coral reefs already in existence to leave them in peace in what is probably an already highly stressed environment without the humans lighting up the area with shocking sudden incandescence.

khunpapa
khunpapa Senior Member • Posts: 2,666
Re: Is Canon exiting UW photography? Needlessly.

Richard Horner wrote:

Canon used to rule underwater compact cameras...
Literally everyone i knew had them, and anyone with the competition's cameras was crap by comparison.

Huhh !

I think of the film day. The great Nikonos.

Then the nowadays digital. The Olympus Tough series. Decades ago until now.

Canon. Canon?

Hrrrmmmmm ...

-- hide signature --

Flashes of my Memory.

 khunpapa's gear list:khunpapa's gear list
Sigma DP2 Sigma DP3 Merrill Olympus E-M1 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS Sigma DP1 +10 more
dhaas Forum Member • Posts: 61
Re: Is Canon exiting UW photography? Needlessly.

Flash underwater has shown people what exists underwater for decades. Without it no one would even know fish or other creatures had colors or want to save the oceans and its inhabitants.

There have been numerous scientific studies on the effect flash has on UW creatures both big and small. Almost all have concluded it has no negative effects because it's so fast and short time wise.

I will agree for surface photos I try to not use flash as it can ruin the mood, eliminate shadows that could add to a photo's impact, etc.  But for underwater it is still necessary unless you only dive in less than 20' of water on bright sunny days in super clear water!

Some UW shooters are transitioning to video lights but they mainly have MORE effect making creatures want to hide or flee. Plus they're nowhere near the the light energy even a small flash puts out. Many keep hoping for fixed lighting to replace strobes but even a 20,000 lumen light can't match a small strobe's power.

Sorry for the rant but saying just turn off the flash won't cut it. Not for Nat Geo camera images of unique (and never before documented) animals and especially UW shooting.

Maybe some smart person will invent an AI App for cell phones (likely this will come first for sure) that will make any UW image look like it was lit with flash but the physics of light / color absorption even in 10' of water may make this impossible unless we'll accept CGI images as factual ones in the future

I don't think nature shooters will buy that although anyone licensing images knows buyers usually don't care if it's real or not. Likely 99% of pics of big cats, bears, etc were shot at game farms.

Just more thoughts after shooting UW for 4 decades

 dhaas's gear list:dhaas's gear list
Canon G7 X II Apple iPhone 13 Pro Max
dhaas Forum Member • Posts: 61
Re: Is Canon exiting UW photography? Needlessly.
1

One more thing echoing the comment about "haven't almost all fish been documented enough already" ?

This is something I kind of agree with. But try telling someone on vacation anywhere (National Parks, etc.) that they shouldn't take their OWN photo because a postcard or whatever shot is already better that anything they might take.

Photos are PERSONAL to people whether they're art or crap LOL.....

That said looking forward to ways to image the UW world here's one photographer I truly admire. Read his comments in one of the articles not only about compact cameras displacing big rigs UW but analyzing the light, etc.

Here's some links with nuggets of wisdom on "image making”.

Patjane uses a super wide angle lens on a 1” sensor compact camera shooting only ambient light.

Needless to say I think Anwar Patjane Floriuk’s images are wonderful
Enjoy

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/photography/winning-travel-photo-contest-changed-life/

https://matadornetwork.com/notebook/photographer-racking-awards-check-uses-point-shoot/

https://www.parley.tv/updates/2016/5/16/the-underwater-realm-photography-by-anuar-patjane

Granted he's chosen his style as ambient B&W shooting but his creations are stunning and I can only hope to achieve such underwater photos!

I'll continue to travel and dive and shoot although I keep less and less images these days. Being a brutal editor I think is a major component of photography.

 dhaas's gear list:dhaas's gear list
Canon G7 X II Apple iPhone 13 Pro Max
DonA2
DonA2 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,720
Re: Is Canon exiting UW photography? Needlessly.

Very nice UW photos.  Used to scuba dive and built my own UW camera housing.  60 years ago.  My, how things have changed and for the better of course.

 DonA2's gear list:DonA2's gear list
Canon PowerShot S2 IS Canon PowerShot SX10 IS Canon PowerShot S100 Canon PowerShot SX40 HS Canon PowerShot SX50 HS +2 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads