I can't belive this gem was not noticed!

Started 2 months ago | User reviews
MUSTDOS Forum Member • Posts: 55
I can't belive this gem was not noticed!

I had an EPL-5 and let me tell you something; this thing blows it and any compact cam away!

The sensor is simply stunning! Sure images aren't perfect beyond 1600ISO but has BEAUTIFUL color reproduction and whatever built in lens correction that renewed my love for my Olympus 25mm F1.8.

User interface was simply intuitive and a breeze to use.

It has one of the most flexible video modes for a cam focused on photography I've ever seen.

I wish sensors where pushing the boundaries of photo quality limit like this little thing with it's sensor instead of just packing more megapixels like all modern cams have.

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Engineers are the lawyers when it comes to laws of physics; Scientists are judges.

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Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX1
16 megapixels • 3 screen • Four Thirds sensor
Announced: Nov 7, 2011
MUSTDOS's score
5.0
Average community score
4.6
bad for good for
Kids / pets
good
Action / sports
good
Landscapes / scenery
great
Portraits
great
Low light (without flash)
okay
Flash photography (social)
okay
Studio / still life
great
= community average
nevada5
nevada5 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,982
Two things come to mind
2

Why did you post in this forum?

Is this one of those Rip Van Winkle things?

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OP MUSTDOS Forum Member • Posts: 55
Re: Two things come to mind
1

New to dpreview.

It said I could write a review of it but didn't expect that it would be posted in the forums.

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Isola Verde
Isola Verde Veteran Member • Posts: 9,360
Re: I can't belive this gem was not noticed!

Very nearly eight years since this camera was launched, and still nobody at DPR has bothered to fix the system so reviews of it turn up in the appropriate Forum....

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/1041

... where you'll find there's been much discussion of its good and bad points.

One big turn-off was a susceptibility to shutter-shock in the range 1/60th to 1/200th (or thereabouts) with some lenses - just at random, see here for an example....

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52796318

No doubt part of the reason for the particularly low prices that used examples fetch today?

Peter

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alcelc
alcelc Forum Pro • Posts: 11,754
Re: I can't belive this gem was not noticed!
1

I expect you should aware that GX1 is a very outdated model and up to today we already have the 3rd generation offspring from it (exclude the premium GX8), i.e., the GX7 of 2013, GX85 of 2016, and the latest GX9 this year.

When GX1 still has a noisy shutter (so prone to shutter shock), no e-shutter, automatic video only, rely on lens OIS, use an add on evf...

Today the latest GXs have a completely new standard of hardware, 4K video in more shooter's control (P/S/A/M video mode), new electro magnetic m-shutter, 2 stops higher usable ISO, IBIS and DUAL IS...

I still use GX1 as my backup camera sometimes, but...  If you are excited with GX1, any later GX will surely blow you off. Cost, US$500 for a twin lens kit GX85...

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Albert

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OP MUSTDOS Forum Member • Posts: 55
Re: I can't belive this gem was not noticed!

alcelc wrote:

I expect you should aware that GX1 is a very outdated model and up to today we already have the 3rd generation offspring from it (exclude the premium GX8), i.e., the GX7 of 2013, GX85 of 2016, and the latest GX9 this year.

When GX1 still has a noisy shutter (so prone to shutter shock), no e-shutter, automatic video only, rely on lens OIS, use an add on evf...

I get what you mean, but I can't ask for better at $240 and brand new!

Today the latest GXs have a completely new standard of hardware, 4K video in more shooter's control (P/S/A/M video mode), new electro magnetic m-shutter, 2 stops higher usable ISO, IBIS and DUAL IS...

It's no secret that most manufacturers lie about thier ISO performance (while Panasonic is among the most honest) but the overall colors look so much better than the E-PL5 which had the "advanced" Sony sensor. My only gripe for noise is when it comes to long exposure with the GX1 which is really bad after 10 seconds. The colors literally popped out of my screen.

Shutter shock wasn't a major issue for me; it was usable with a mini metal tripod. (I'm not big into long exposures)

I still use GX1 as my backup camera sometimes, but... If you are excited with GX1, any later GX will surely blow you off. Cost, US$500 for a twin lens kit GX85...

I avoid any cam that doesn't have AA filters; just browse for the GX85's failures when it comes to aliasing; basically Mario Kart rainbow world.

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OP MUSTDOS Forum Member • Posts: 55
Re: I can't belive this gem was not noticed!

I know, but never a major issue to me. Even the incredible noise from exposures beyond 5 seconds.

But the sensor gives off fascinating color and the screen is a lot more smoother and clearer compared to my E-PL5. I even get a gyroscope built int.

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garryr Regular Member • Posts: 256
Re: I can't belive this gem was not noticed!
4

MUSTDOS wrote:

I avoid any cam that doesn't have AA filters; just browse for the GX85's failures when it comes to aliasing; basically Mario Kart rainbow world.

Both of my camera's have no AA filters and yet I've never come across any aliasing issues. What kind of photos are you shooting where it becomes an issue?

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alcelc
alcelc Forum Pro • Posts: 11,754
+1
1

garryr wrote:

MUSTDOS wrote:

I avoid any cam that doesn't have AA filters; just browse for the GX85's failures when it comes to aliasing; basically Mario Kart rainbow world.

Both of my camera's have no AA filters and yet I've never come across any aliasing issues. What kind of photos are you shooting where it becomes an issue?

G85 is the 2nd MILCs of mine that has no AA filter. Same as GX85, both just showed more fine detail, sharper SOOC result than GX7 (because of its AA filter).

To OP:

Please don't misunderstand me, I love GX1 and it was the model that changed my view on using a non dslr form factor camera. Because of the beauty of GX1 (portability and capability), I followed the RF route, GX7 then GX85, over last 7~8 years leaving G series behind. If GX10 could return to the size of GX1, I would be die to have one. GX1 is still one of my major backup camera nowadays.

If you upgrade directly from GX1 to GX85/G85, you would be blown away by its level of sharpness.

Aliasing issue (mostly very minor color moire which can hardly be detected without pixel peeping at >200% view), if has, could be less than 0.1% of over thousands of shots from these cameras.

There is a strong bias on sensor without AA filter by some GX8 users on M43 forum (because GX8 is the last Panasonic MILC, which was a premium model when launched, has AA filter and many of its owners love such one off model too much... ). It had been debated heavily over there and there were more than enough real life samples to show the over worrying of this issue.

If you have a chance to compare shots from GX1 vs GX85 or models thereafter (without AA filter), the difference would be too obvious that you might not recognise that all of these model are actually using more or less the same Panasonic M43 16Mp sensor (with some degree of tweaking on every generation of course).

The following are snap SOOC jpgs from GX85, not for contest of any kind, just wish the fine detail of the fiber of these shots from no AA filter sensor (which are usually most prone to moire) could erase your concern on this matter (Pls look at them at 1:1 view):

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Albert

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garryr Regular Member • Posts: 256
Re: +1

alcelc wrote:

G85 is the 2nd MILCs of mine that has no AA filter. Same as GX85, both just showed more fine detail, sharper SOOC result than GX7 (because of its AA filter).

I first heard of it back in the early 2000s when I was on the nikonians.org site. A few were removing the AA filters from their cameras for the same reason - sharper images. The most notable down side was the possible introduction of moire with certain things like fabrics or screens.

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Martin Ocando
MOD Martin Ocando Veteran Member • Posts: 6,371
Re: Two things come to mind
1

nevada5 wrote:

Why did you post in this forum?

Is this one of those Rip Van Winkle things?

Is not the OP fault. There is an issue with dpr reviews which get posted in the wrong forum. I just moved it to the m43 forum.

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Martin
"One of the biggest mistakes a photographer can make is to look at the real world and cling to the vain hope that next time his film will somehow bear a closer resemblance to it" - Galen Rowell

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nevada5
nevada5 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,982
Re: I can't belive this gem was not noticed!
1

MUSTDOS wrote:

I avoid any cam that doesn't have AA filters; just browse for the GX85's failures when it comes to aliasing; basically Mario Kart rainbow world.

It's your loss, based on misinformation you received.

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nevada5
nevada5 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,982
Re: Two things come to mind

Martin Ocando wrote:

nevada5 wrote:

Why did you post in this forum?

Is this one of those Rip Van Winkle things?

Is not the OP fault. There is an issue with dpr reviews which get posted in the wrong forum. I just moved it to the m43 forum.

Thank you and thank you.  

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OP MUSTDOS Forum Member • Posts: 55
Re: +1
1

https://2.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~forums/61952386/5c95fead8ad0433b89b9429e75198dde

Sorry I couldn't find the better example, but look at the roof/canopy of the carriages.

The other thread had an even worse example that the half of the jacket was rainbow colored

But here's another good example though https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61984682

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OP MUSTDOS Forum Member • Posts: 55
Re: I can't belive this gem was not noticed!

https://2.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~forums/61952386/5c95fead8ad0433b89b9429e75198dde

Sorry I couldn't find the better example, but look at the roof/canopy of the carriages.

The other thread had an even worse example that the half of the jacket was rainbow colored

But here's another good example though https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61984682

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nevada5
nevada5 Forum Pro • Posts: 13,982
Re: I can't belive this gem was not noticed!

MUSTDOS wrote:

https://2.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~forums/61952386/5c95fead8ad0433b89b9429e75198dde

Sorry I couldn't find the better example, but look at the roof/canopy of the carriages.

The other thread had an even worse example that the half of the jacket was rainbow colored

But here's another good example though https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61984682

I've got several thousand images taken with my GX85 and haven't seen an issue, not one. From the thread you linked to above, apparently it's common to never see it - https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61978082

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alcelc
alcelc Forum Pro • Posts: 11,754
Re: +1

It is true in the old days.

But thing has moved on and better algorithm generally can avoid it. A reason why Panasonic only removed the AA filter from its sensor since GX85 (mid 2016). I believe Panasonic did it only when it had a solution on dealing with moire, instead of just following the trend.

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Albert

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garryr Regular Member • Posts: 256
Re: +1

MUSTDOS wrote:

https://2.img-dpreview.com/files/p/E~forums/61952386/5c95fead8ad0433b89b9429e75198dde

Sorry I couldn't find the better example, but look at the roof/canopy of the carriages.

The other thread had an even worse example that the half of the jacket was rainbow colored

But here's another good example though https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61984682

If enlarged I can see it slightly in the carriage fringe but the second link is to a 0.1mp jpg of a photograph of a B&W half tone print.

For the record I'm never experienced any of those examples from my G85 or GX85 but then again I don't photograph b&w prints either. I can only suggest you keep what you have or you'll be worried about it forever. It's a nice camera. Enjoy it.

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brentbrent Veteran Member • Posts: 4,019
Re: +1

alcelc wrote:

It is true in the old days.

But thing has moved on and better algorithm generally can avoid it. A reason why Panasonic only removed the AA filter from its sensor since GX85 (mid 2016). I believe Panasonic did it only when it had a solution on dealing with moire, instead of just following the trend.

I don't often see moire, but I have in some clothing shots, and here's a 100% crop from a G9 photo of a building that exhibits some moire (view at 100%).  I forget the member's name who owns a GX8 and refuses to buy a camera without an AA filter, but, hey, if you don't ever want to experience moire, then you probably need a camera with an AA filter.  Me, I'm happy with the sharp G9 output, and I can deal with an occasional image with moire.

Getting back to the OP, I liked my GX1 when I had it, but I need an EVF, and the add-on EVF unit was clumsy.  The GX7 is soooooo superior to the GX1 in so many ways.  I saw a near-mint GX7 go for $305 a week ago on eBay.  If you like the GX1, you'd love a GX7.

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Brent

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alcelc
alcelc Forum Pro • Posts: 11,754
What can I say, +1, 100% with you (nt)
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Albert

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