90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
BirdShooter7 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,876
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
1

I see a lot of 7d mk2’s but also a lot of D500’s and d850’s and an occasional 5d mk4

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Messier Object
Messier Object Veteran Member • Posts: 8,567
Choosing APS-C over FF
1

BirdShooter7 wrote:

I see a lot of 7d mk2’s but also a lot of D500’s and d850’s and an occasional 5d mk4

Are you using FF for wildlife as well as APS-C ?

I suppose that many FF users look at APS-C users in the field and assume that we can’t afford to upgrade to Full Frame, and that it’s not a deliberate choice we make.

My worry is that Canon is thinking the same way and is wrongly believing that we APS-C users are longing to make the upgrade to FF, and that we use the 7D2 but wish we had a 1DXII

Peter

Distinctly Average Contributing Member • Posts: 520
Re: Choosing APS-C over FF
3

Messier Object wrote:

BirdShooter7 wrote:

I see a lot of 7d mk2’s but also a lot of D500’s and d850’s and an occasional 5d mk4

Are you using FF for wildlife as well as APS-C ?

I suppose that many FF users look at APS-C users in the field and assume that we can’t afford to upgrade to Full Frame, and that it’s not a deliberate choice we make.

My worry is that Canon is thinking the same way and is wrongly believing that we APS-C users are longing to make the upgrade to FF, and that we use the 7D2 but wish we had a 1DXII

Peter

Canon are far more likely to look at sales figures and profit margins than think along the lines you are suggesting above. If good revenue can be made from APS-C then they will continue to develop that line.

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Chris Mak Senior Member • Posts: 2,347
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
1

JPAlbert wrote:

All you guys waiting for Canon to release a 7dmk3... come over here and take a seat on this bench for folks waitin' for SONY to release another crop-sensor A-mount camera...

Well, we know fore sure thát's not going to happen, so I am not sure I want to sit on that bench. I already sat on the bench of Pentax folk waiting for an APS-C K3 successor long enough...

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RedFox88 Forum Pro • Posts: 29,434
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users

Kevinsky wrote:

RedFox88 wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

It’s been 5 years now. This should have been the point at which it was released, and....we got a reheated 80d instead, which was also way overdue.

Way? Nope, just 3 years, about what the 80D serohas been for the past 10 years

At this point, yeah, pretty disappointed Canon owner. Will they release a 7d3 next year? At this point, I doubt it.

Mirrorless 7, as it’ll be a build up to pro sports mirrorless. Canon learns as it develops technology and rarely jumps in at the top end with new technology

Nope just 3yrs???

80D is 3 years old 🙄

Huh? IR1234 is correct at 5yrs. 80D serohas been for the past 10 years???? What are you even trying to say here?

OP IR1234 Senior Member • Posts: 1,546
Re: DIGIC8 is multicore?
1

BirdShooter7 wrote:

That’s not what I was saying. What I am asking is if there is a single core that does the job just as well as two less powerful ones does it really matter to the end user?

Are you suggesting that the only possible way to do what you want is to have two cores?

I'm saying two cores does the job better.

But then, why do we need bigger viewfinders, since a small viewfinder does the job just as well. Why do we need 10fps when 8fps does the job just as well. And so forth.

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kreygscott
kreygscott Senior Member • Posts: 1,246
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
1

RogerZoul wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

I’m a Canon fan, but I really think they made a mistake dumping the 7D range.

But at least Canon just saved me $1500 as I won’t be buying a 90D anytime soon.

Who said Canon dumped the 7D line? Can you show a link for such a statement?

Well said.

You can't believe all of the rumors around. Save your money and wait for the 7D3 or for an announcement from Canon saying that it isn't coming. I would expect to spend a little more than $1500, though.

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1Dx4me Senior Member • Posts: 7,599
Re: DIGIC8 is multicore?
1

IR1234 wrote:

BirdShooter7 wrote:

That’s not what I was saying. What I am asking is if there is a single core that does the job just as well as two less powerful ones does it really matter to the end user?

Are you suggesting that the only possible way to do what you want is to have two cores?

I'm saying two cores does the job better.

But then, why do we need bigger viewfinders, since a small viewfinder does the job just as well. Why do we need 10fps when 8fps does the job just as well. And so forth.

who cares about "core" if it does the job?

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BirdShooter7 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,876
Re: Choosing APS-C over FF
2

I by far mostly use APS-c for my wildlife photography.  I do have FF but most of the time it isn’t the best choice for that my wildlife photography though if Canon came out with a fast, high pixel density FF ( like the D850 or A7r4) I would probably be pretty tempted though I would still really be interested in a pro APS-c the most.

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BirdShooter7 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,876
Re: DIGIC8 is multicore?
1

Does a smaller viewfinder do the job JUST as well or just get the job done.  I don’t see why a single core is necessarily bad, I’m sure it’s possible for a single core to do the job even better.  What matters is the actual performance, not how many processors there are.

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Sharlin
Sharlin Contributing Member • Posts: 679
Re: DIGIC8 is multicore?
3

IR1234 wrote:

BirdShooter7 wrote:

That’s not what I was saying. What I am asking is if there is a single core that does the job just as well as two less powerful ones does it really matter to the end user?

Are you suggesting that the only possible way to do what you want is to have two cores?

I'm saying two cores does the job better.

Better in what way? Anyway, you don’t know how many ”cores” the DIGIC8 in the 90D contains. DIGICs are ASICs and most of the heaviest lifting is done by signal processing units for which the concept of ”core” may not even make sense. There could be hundreds of ”cores” in a single DIGIC.

A single dual-core processor has, in general, more performance than two equivalent single-core processors due to shared cache and physical proximity (electric signals travel fast but not fast enough!) Given that the trend is toward ever more tightly integrated system-on-a-chip designs, I wouldn’t be surprised if all future Canon cameras had a ”single DIGIC” architecture. Of course, ”dual DIGIC” is good marketing because of the ”two must be better than one, right?” people…

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OUGrad05 Forum Member • Posts: 82
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

I’m a Canon fan, but I really think they made a mistake dumping the 7D range.

But at least Canon just saved me $1500 as I won’t be buying a 90D anytime soon.

I agree it's a mistake.  I've been rocking my old Rebel T2i for several years waiting on the 7D3 or perhaps the 6D2 (disappointed).  Thought this might be it.  Doesn't look like it'll get the dual card slots, top tier weather sealing, cramming more pixels on what seems to be the same sensor will result in poor low light (important for me).  
I guess it'll be time to relegate the T2i to backup duty and go Z6, or Sony A7R3 (assuming it comes down a bit with the R4 announcement).

Myer Veteran Member • Posts: 3,005
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users

OUGrad05 wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

I’m a Canon fan, but I really think they made a mistake dumping the 7D range.

But at least Canon just saved me $1500 as I won’t be buying a 90D anytime soon.

I agree it's a mistake. I've been rocking my old Rebel T2i for several years waiting on the 7D3 or perhaps the 6D2 (disappointed). Thought this might be it. Doesn't look like it'll get the dual card slots, top tier weather sealing, cramming more pixels on what seems to be the same sensor will result in poor low light (important for me).
I guess it'll be time to relegate the T2i to backup duty and go Z6, or Sony A7R3 (assuming it comes down a bit with the R4 announcement).

OUGrad05,

You mention a few things. I went to a 70D from my beloved T2i. Considering how old it is it was a great upgrade in high ISO performance. My granddaughter uses it when I get her out shooting.

It looks like you wrote that you're disappointed with the 6DII. If that's what you meant what don't you like about it?

OUGrad05 Forum Member • Posts: 82
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
1

Myer wrote:

OUGrad05 wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

I’m a Canon fan, but I really think they made a mistake dumping the 7D range.

But at least Canon just saved me $1500 as I won’t be buying a 90D anytime soon.

I agree it's a mistake. I've been rocking my old Rebel T2i for several years waiting on the 7D3 or perhaps the 6D2 (disappointed). Thought this might be it. Doesn't look like it'll get the dual card slots, top tier weather sealing, cramming more pixels on what seems to be the same sensor will result in poor low light (important for me).
I guess it'll be time to relegate the T2i to backup duty and go Z6, or Sony A7R3 (assuming it comes down a bit with the R4 announcement).

OUGrad05,

You mention a few things. I went to a 70D from my beloved T2i. Considering how old it is it was a great upgrade in high ISO performance. My granddaughter uses it when I get her out shooting.

It looks like you wrote that you're disappointed with the 6DII. If that's what you meant what don't you like about it?

Video functions are terrible and from everything I've been told the weather proofing is very limited.  Also didn't like the auto focus limitations.  
I have no doubt a 90D would be an upgrade, but I keep these things for 7 to 10 years, I quickly learned most of the functions on the T2i and found myself in situations where it was under performing, namely sports and indoor shooting, especially indoor sports.
It's also let me down several times when storm chasing.
Been ready for a change for several years and Canon continues to disappoint. I have only one decent lens so my investment is small. Looks like I'll be bouncing over to Sony or Nikon.
Considered the Fuji XT3 as a great budget performer.

HotRod34
HotRod34 New Member • Posts: 10
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
3

I have read that 7D series camera owners buy more and higher end lenses than the lower tier camera owners do. That makes sense, speaking for myself I have grown my lens collection in the years since acquiring the 7D II. I am quite confident Canon will have a Mark III in the next 6 months.

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Rexgig0
Rexgig0 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,504
Re: Z6

OUGrad05 wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

I’m a Canon fan, but I really think they made a mistake dumping the 7D range.

But at least Canon just saved me $1500 as I won’t be buying a 90D anytime soon.

I agree it's a mistake. I've been rocking my old Rebel T2i for several years waiting on the 7D3 or perhaps the 6D2 (disappointed). Thought this might be it. Doesn't look like it'll get the dual card slots, top tier weather sealing, cramming more pixels on what seems to be the same sensor will result in poor low light (important for me).
I guess it'll be time to relegate the T2i to backup duty and go Z6, or Sony A7R3 (assuming it comes down a bit with the R4 announcement).

My Nikon-shooting wife loves her Z6. She also uses D500 and D850 cameras, but she appreciates the smaller form factor of the Z5, and its excellent 24-70mm f/4 kit zoom. She has decades of very serious photography experience.

Neither of use like Sony ergonomics, controls, or menus. My bridge camera, prior to starting DSLR shooting, was a Sony DSC-H20, so my Sony menu experience is based upon actual usage. The menu of my starter DSLR, the XTi, was a breath of fresh air. (I quickly upgraded to a 40D, then a 7D, for the handling qualities and adult-sized controls.)

I immediately embraced the better low-light performance of the 7D II, in 2014, but also started adding pre-owned Nikon FX cameras, the same year. (It made sense, as I and my wife could share Nikon lenses and Speedlights.) Canon remained my “primary” system, however, being so much better, overall, than Nikon, for my evidentiary/forensic/crime scene photography. (Best, weather-sealed Speedlites, best macro ring flash for street.field use, best macro lens, cameras’ ability to detect and sync with flickering light sources.)

In early 2018, after retirement, I bought a new Nikon D5, with money from a cheque for my unused “comp” time, which might have resulted in my shifting to Nikon, for birds/wildlife, but a severe XQD card shortage, with Spring Migration imminent, prompted me to add a Canon 5D Mark IV, which could use my ample supply of CF and SD cards.

Well, Nikon D5 AF is amazing, but the 5D IV AF does amazingly well, too, with wonderful L lenses, such as my EF 100-400L II IS. A 7D III would be worth adding, for me, if it could improve, even incrementally, upon the 5D IV’s AF.

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John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 22,466
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users

Mark B. wrote:

RogerZoul wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

I’m a Canon fan, but I really think they made a mistake dumping the 7D range.

But at least Canon just saved me $1500 as I won’t be buying a 90D anytime soon.

Who said Canon dumped the 7D line? Can you show a link for such a statement?

You can't believe all of the rumors around. Save your money and wait for the 7D3 or for an announcement from Canon saying that it isn't coming. I would expect to spend a little more than $1500, though.

I'll be very surprised if 1) there's a 7D III and 2) if the 90D retails for >$1,500.

I think the merging of certain features points to the 7D line coming to an end. Time will, but it was 5 years between the original 7D and another 5 years to it's successor. Now 5 years later there's not a hint of a 7D III but instead there's an 80D successor with features from the 7D II.

The 80D user is generally less needy of a real-time display for action than the 7D2 user, so somehow it doesn't seem to make sense to not have a 7D3 successor, but have an 80D successor.  Problem is, Canon will not reveal whether they plan to make a 7D3, because they want the potential owners to buy a 90D, and then buy a 7D3 later, if they offer it.

IMO, if Canon wanted to get most users into mirrorless ASAP, they would only extend the 7D2 and 1DxII DSLR series.  I'm not saying I can guess accurately what a corporation will do, but that is what would make sense to me if they want to trim the DSLR line to one FF and one APS-C.

To me, the 90D means one of two things - Canon is still planning to have multiple DSLR lines, but they will not be a high priority while the R line is being started, or this 90D really is the only DSLR upgrade from the 7D2 with higher pixel density for the next few years, which is like a technological death to me.

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 22,466
Re: Choosing APS-C over FF
5

Messier Object wrote:

BirdShooter7 wrote:

I see a lot of 7d mk2’s but also a lot of D500’s and d850’s and an occasional 5d mk4

Are you using FF for wildlife as well as APS-C ?

I suppose that many FF users look at APS-C users in the field and assume that we can’t afford to upgrade to Full Frame, and that it’s not a deliberate choice we make.

There is a lot of elitism in the field; more in the past than recently, I think.  There are a lot of personality types that just go for the "bigger and more expensive is just better always" that seems to be linked to ego with people who don't understand the real technical issues of digital imaging, despite often being very good at getting out there and getting the shots, just from putting their time in.  When I first started bird photography, there were a few people with the big tripods, the biggest lenses, and the 1D bodies who seemed like gods of bird photography, and after I started to understand things for myself, I realized that they didn't understand the issue of scale at all, and were fixated on how 100% pixel views looked on their monitors.  One told me that his 4MP 1D was much more crop-able than the 1D3 he was currently using.  Another told me how much more crop-able his 3.43MP Sigma SD9 was than his 1D3.  These two guys just got completely deflated in my esteem of their knowledge when they told me these things.  They had no understanding of scale.

Shortly after the specs for the 7D2 were out and some leaked RAWs to measure noise, I mentioned to one fellow who used a 5D3 that the 7D2 had lower high-ISO noise in focal length-limited situations than any other Canons except the 1Dx, and he protested that this wasn't true, and said that the 5D3 had less noise.  When I suggested that he was talking about pixel-level views, and that they are irrelevant in focal-length-limited photography, he said that no, the pixel noise is *THE* noise of the camera, because it happens at the source.  This from a college professor!

My worry is that Canon is thinking the same way and is wrongly believing that we APS-C users are longing to make the upgrade to FF, and that we use the 7D2 but wish we had a 1DXII

I can buy a case of 1DxII bodies without a loan or on credit.  Still I don't have one, even though I would prefer one, perhaps, when I shoot larger stuff, but the smaller stuff is where quality of resolution matters most.

There lies an illusion: when a person has both a 1DxII and a 7D2, they may find that their best shots on the 1DxII are better than the best shots on the 7D2 at the same ISO.  There is no surprise there, but it was the situation and optics, not the sensor, that let them fill the larger frame well and give lower noise, more analog sharpness from the lens, and  greater background separation.  This has zero generic value, however, when focal-length-limited with an f/8 lens + TC with a subject that the 7D2 can focus on at f/8.

OP IR1234 Senior Member • Posts: 1,546
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users

OUGrad05 wrote:

Myer wrote:

OUGrad05 wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

I’m a Canon fan, but I really think they made a mistake dumping the 7D range.

But at least Canon just saved me $1500 as I won’t be buying a 90D anytime soon.

I agree it's a mistake. I've been rocking my old Rebel T2i for several years waiting on the 7D3 or perhaps the 6D2 (disappointed). Thought this might be it. Doesn't look like it'll get the dual card slots, top tier weather sealing, cramming more pixels on what seems to be the same sensor will result in poor low light (important for me).
I guess it'll be time to relegate the T2i to backup duty and go Z6, or Sony A7R3 (assuming it comes down a bit with the R4 announcement).

OUGrad05,

You mention a few things. I went to a 70D from my beloved T2i. Considering how old it is it was a great upgrade in high ISO performance. My granddaughter uses it when I get her out shooting.

It looks like you wrote that you're disappointed with the 6DII. If that's what you meant what don't you like about it?

Video functions are terrible and from everything I've been told the weather proofing is very limited. Also didn't like the auto focus limitations.
I have no doubt a 90D would be an upgrade, but I keep these things for 7 to 10 years, I quickly learned most of the functions on the T2i and found myself in situations where it was under performing, namely sports and indoor shooting, especially indoor sports.
It's also let me down several times when storm chasing.
Been ready for a change for several years and Canon continues to disappoint. I have only one decent lens so my investment is small. Looks like I'll be bouncing over to Sony or Nikon.
Considered the Fuji XT3 as a great budget performer.

6d2 is a joy to use! We have one here, it’s just not one of our main workhorses, however it fulfills a function in the business where the 7ds aren't a great choice, absolutely perfectly. Wonderful piece of kit. (And yes, its used for the low light stuff, but dont think that you get free light, but bumping that iso still yields great results. And weather proofing is not what you think it is, you still wrap up a weather proof camera in bad weather.)

Get past the reviews from non photographers and wannabes and it’s a great purchase today.

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Distinctly Average Contributing Member • Posts: 520
Re: Choosing APS-C over FF
7

John Sheehy wrote:

Messier Object wrote:

BirdShooter7 wrote:

I see a lot of 7d mk2’s but also a lot of D500’s and d850’s and an occasional 5d mk4

Are you using FF for wildlife as well as APS-C ?

I suppose that many FF users look at APS-C users in the field and assume that we can’t afford to upgrade to Full Frame, and that it’s not a deliberate choice we make.

There is a lot of elitism in the field; more in the past than recently, I think. There are a lot of personality types that just go for the "bigger and more expensive is just better always" that seems to be linked to ego with people who don't understand the real technical issues of digital imaging, despite often being very good at getting out there and getting the shots, just from putting their time in. When I first started bird photography, there were a few people with the big tripods, the biggest lenses, and the 1D bodies who seemed like gods of bird photography, and after I started to understand things for myself, I realized that they didn't understand the issue of scale at all, and were fixated on how 100% pixel views looked on their monitors. One told me that his 4MP 1D was much more crop-able than the 1D3 he was currently using. Another told me how much more crop-able his 3.43MP Sigma SD9 was than his 1D3. These two guys just got completely deflated in my esteem of their knowledge when they told me these things. They had no understanding of scale.

Shortly after the specs for the 7D2 were out and some leaked RAWs to measure noise, I mentioned to one fellow who used a 5D3 that the 7D2 had lower high-ISO noise in focal length-limited situations than any other Canons except the 1Dx, and he protested that this wasn't true, and said that the 5D3 had less noise. When I suggested that he was talking about pixel-level views, and that they are irrelevant in focal-length-limited photography, he said that no, the pixel noise is *THE* noise of the camera, because it happens at the source. This from a college professor!

My worry is that Canon is thinking the same way and is wrongly believing that we APS-C users are longing to make the upgrade to FF, and that we use the 7D2 but wish we had a 1DXII

I can buy a case of 1DxII bodies without a loan or on credit. Still I don't have one, even though I would prefer one, perhaps, when I shoot larger stuff, but the smaller stuff is where quality of resolution matters most.

There lies an illusion: when a person has both a 1DxII and a 7D2, they may find that their best shots on the 1DxII are better than the best shots on the 7D2 at the same ISO. There is no surprise there, but it was the situation and optics, not the sensor, that let them fill the larger frame well and give lower noise, more analog sharpness from the lens, and greater background separation. This has zero generic value, however, when focal-length-limited with an f/8 lens + TC with a subject that the 7D2 can focus on at f/8.

Elitism? I always find that a very odd thing. From the eyes of the beholder it suggest a certain level of insecurity, or a willingness to be a victim of either marketing or the bullies with the overpriced kit.

I know a young autistic lad, 15. He had a very beaten up 7D the he bought for £80 on fleabay after saving his pocket money for a long time. That is coupled with an old 400mm 5.6 also purchased from the bay of fleas by his parents as a birthday present. I first met him when surrounded by a group of photo snobs photographing a local rarity. Some of those togs were moaning that a child was there, unhappy he was closer than them. Numerous comments were made and to say it got my heckles up would be an understatement. But the young lad let it go straight over his head and concentrated on the task in hand. The bird was totally at ease with the young lad as he knew exactly how to observe and read the subject. Said young lad won two National photographic competitions with shots from that day. I would love to rub that in the faces of the snobs with their £15000 of kit each, but boring photos from what I could see. To me it on not about the kit, the technical abilities of the sensor or any other such garbage. It is about making the most of what you own, learning what it can and cannot do.

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