90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users

Started 2 months ago | Discussions
Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 13,386
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
2

1Dx4me wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

indeed, no one said 90D is a replacement for 7Dmk2!

Actually it has been rumoured for months that the two lines would become one (as they used to be up to the 50D) and that the new model would therefore replace both. This could have made a lot of sense in a shrinking market, and only now do we know for sure that this is not happening.

thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 2,566
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
1

Steve Balcombe wrote:

1Dx4me wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

indeed, no one said 90D is a replacement for 7Dmk2!

Actually it has been rumoured for months that the two lines would become one (as they used to be up to the 50D) and that the new model would therefore replace both. This could have made a lot of sense in a shrinking market, and only now do we know for sure that this is not happening.

What is the difference between two lines merging into one versus one of the two lines (eventually) not being continued? As long as there is no 7Dmk3 there remains a possibility it will never come, and the rest is just semantics.

I do think there will be a 7Dmk3 though. But i don't think this 90D has so much predictive value about this.

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If your facts are different we could save the peace just by calling it copy to copy variation.

Steve Balcombe Forum Pro • Posts: 13,386
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
4

thunder storm wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

1Dx4me wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

indeed, no one said 90D is a replacement for 7Dmk2!

Actually it has been rumoured for months that the two lines would become one (as they used to be up to the 50D) and that the new model would therefore replace both. This could have made a lot of sense in a shrinking market, and only now do we know for sure that this is not happening.

What is the difference between two lines merging into one versus one of the two lines (eventually) not being continued?

Well, the features obviously. The 90D has a feature set which puts it firmly in the XXD range. It also falls short of the five year old 7D2 in some important respects, so it could never be considered a replacement for that.

As long as there is no 7Dmk3 there remains a possibility it will never come,

Of course.

and the rest is just semantics.

No, this is not a semantic argument at all. This is not about what the new body is called, it's about its features.

I do think there will be a 7Dmk3 though. But i don't think this 90D has so much predictive value about this.

Only that it leaves open the possibility. No more than that though.

John Sheehy Forum Pro • Posts: 22,180
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
1

BirdShooter7 wrote:

I actually take this as good news as I think it means we could still get a 7d mk3.

I don't know what to think yet; the joystick made me think that it was a 7D2 successor at first, but the burst rate did not improve over the 7D2, the dual-card slots were not there, and there are less AF points, so maybe there is still hope for a 7D3.

I hope that Canon is taking noise character more seriously with these new 32.5MP sensors.  They got really sloppy and regressive with the 6D2/RP sensor.  Even the R is a little noisier than the 5D4, despite allegedly using the same sensor.

Rexgig0
Rexgig0 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,263
Re: x0D releases unrelated to 7D's

Lemming51 wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

I’m a Canon fan, but I really think they made a mistake dumping the 7D range.

But at least Canon just saved me $1500 as I won’t be buying a 90D anytime soon.

9/2008 - 50D

10/2009 - 7D

8/2010 - 60D

2011 - "Where's my 7D II ?"

8/2012 - v2.03 firmware for 7D. "That's nice, but where's my 7D II ?"

8/2013 - 70D, "Where's my 7D II ?"

11/2014 - 7D II "Yay!"

2015 - (crickets)

3/2016 - 80D

2017-2018 - "Where's my 7D III ?"

9/2019 - 90D, "Where's my 7D III ?"

This. I am not worried.

If no 7D III arrives, I will keep using my 7D II cameras, indefinitely. I loved them, in 2014, and they still perform as well as ever, so what is all the fuss about? I am not worried.

For that matter, I kept one of my 7D cameras, and it still works!

Having said that, I also have 5Ds R and 5D IV cameras. Each can do things the 7D II cannot. My “team of five” can accomplish much, together, while sharing a common battery size. I am not worried.

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By accident of availability, I learned to use Canon and Nikon DSLRs at the same time. I love specific lenses made by both Canon and Nikon, too much to quit either system. Dabbling with Leica-M is fun, too. I am, certainly, not an expert.

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 2,566
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
1

Steve Balcombe wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

1Dx4me wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

indeed, no one said 90D is a replacement for 7Dmk2!

Actually it has been rumoured for months that the two lines would become one (as they used to be up to the 50D) and that the new model would therefore replace both. This could have made a lot of sense in a shrinking market, and only now do we know for sure that this is not happening.

What is the difference between two lines merging into one versus one of the two lines (eventually) not being continued?

Well, the features obviously. The 90D has a feature set which puts it firmly in the XXD range. It also falls short of the five year old 7D2 in some important respects, so it could never be considered a replacement for that.

I think it is possible it can be a replacement. You are missing a view AF-points, but obviously not the most important ones. The processing output (power*rendement) could be about the same as the 7D2. Note: the M6mkII (same Mp-count, same processor) has as faster burstrate than the 90D while dpaf might need more processing power than phase detect AF, so the 90D could have quite some processing power left for the AF system, while less AF points means less information to process compared to the 7DII. Less information is a bad thing in general, but if it is the least valuable information (only the very borders, no crosspoints, not the most precise anyway even with compatible lenses) it can be a good choice.

Shooting in high burst mode requires jpeg anyway so the pics can be back upped by sending the pics to your phone, so this could be a work around for the lack of a 2nd card slot.

Of course: the proof of the pudding is in the eating, but if the processing manages to have the speed and accuracy of the AF system to be on par with the 7DII the higher Mp count might be way more valuable than those border AF points. Those who prefer a crop camera should love a camera enabling them to crop even more.

As long as there is no 7Dmk3 there remains a possibility it will never come,

Of course.

and the rest is just semantics.

No, this is not a semantic argument at all. This is not about what the new body is called, it's about its features.

I do think there will be a 7Dmk3 though. But i don't think this 90D has so much predictive value about this.

Only that it leaves open the possibility. No more than that though.

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If your facts are different we could save the peace just by calling it copy to copy variation.

Rexgig0
Rexgig0 Veteran Member • Posts: 6,263
Well, I Am Glad The Lines Were Not Merged

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

I’m a Canon fan, but I really think they made a mistake dumping the 7D range.

But at least Canon just saved me $1500 as I won’t be buying a 90D anytime soon.

I am glad that the two product lines were not merged, so I cannot say I am disappointed. Relieved, yes; disappointed, no.

I am not presuming that there will be a 7D II. I do not yet see a 7D II as being overdue, as there was a five-year interval between the 7D and 7D II, and, as tech matures, I expect intervals to become longer.

The recent consistent Canon DSLR interval has been the 1D-series, at four years, due to the Summer Games. Other model lines have varied.

Again, I am not presuming that there will be a 7D III. I actually bought my 5D IV, last year, for the better AF, than the 7D II’s AF, while reckoning that there may well be no future 7D III.

I will be pleasantly surprised, if/when a 7D III is officially announced. Meanwhile, my pair of 7D II cameras, plus my 5Ds R and 5D IV, are a wonderful team. I have yet to achieve each goal, on my EF L lens wish list. This is a wonderful time to be a Canon DSLR photographer.

-- hide signature --

By accident of availability, I learned to use Canon and Nikon DSLRs at the same time. I love specific lenses made by both Canon and Nikon, too much to quit either system. Dabbling with Leica-M is fun, too. I am, certainly, not an expert.

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Messier Object
Messier Object Veteran Member • Posts: 8,422
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users

thunder storm wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

1Dx4me wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

indeed, no one said 90D is a replacement for 7Dmk2!

Actually it has been rumoured for months that the two lines would become one (as they used to be up to the 50D) and that the new model would therefore replace both. This could have made a lot of sense in a shrinking market, and only now do we know for sure that this is not happening.

What is the difference between two lines merging into one versus one of the two lines (eventually) not being continued?

Well, the features obviously. The 90D has a feature set which puts it firmly in the XXD range. It also falls short of the five year old 7D2 in some important respects, so it could never be considered a replacement for that.

I think it is possible it can be a replacement. You are missing a view AF-points, but obviously not the most important ones. The processing output (power*rendement) could be about the same as the 7D2. Note: the M6mkII (same Mp-count, same processor) has as faster burstrate than the 90D while dpaf might need more processing power than phase detect AF, so the 90D could have quite some processing power left for the AF system, while less AF points means less information to process compared to the 7DII. Less information is a bad thing in general, but if it is the least valuable information (only the very borders, no crosspoints, not the most precise anyway even with compatible lenses) it can be a good choice.

Shooting in high burst mode requires jpeg anyway

Why is that ?

The 7D2 does raw at 10 fps

Peter

so the pics can be back upped by sending the pics to your phone, so this could be a work around for the lack of a 2nd card slot.

Of course: the proof of the pudding is in the eating, but if the processing manages to have the speed and accuracy of the AF system to be on par with the 7DII the higher Mp count might be way more valuable than those border AF points. Those who prefer a crop camera should love a camera enabling them to crop even more.

As long as there is no 7Dmk3 there remains a possibility it will never come,

Of course.

and the rest is just semantics.

No, this is not a semantic argument at all. This is not about what the new body is called, it's about its features.

I do think there will be a 7Dmk3 though. But i don't think this 90D has so much predictive value about this.

Only that it leaves open the possibility. No more than that though.

BirdShooter7 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,715
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
2

Before the 7d mk2 was announced there were a bunch of rumors that there would be no replacement for the 7d...  I wouldn’t jump to any conclusions yet

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 2,566
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users

Messier Object wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

Steve Balcombe wrote:

1Dx4me wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

indeed, no one said 90D is a replacement for 7Dmk2!

Actually it has been rumoured for months that the two lines would become one (as they used to be up to the 50D) and that the new model would therefore replace both. This could have made a lot of sense in a shrinking market, and only now do we know for sure that this is not happening.

What is the difference between two lines merging into one versus one of the two lines (eventually) not being continued?

Well, the features obviously. The 90D has a feature set which puts it firmly in the XXD range. It also falls short of the five year old 7D2 in some important respects, so it could never be considered a replacement for that.

I think it is possible it can be a replacement. You are missing a view AF-points, but obviously not the most important ones. The processing output (power*rendement) could be about the same as the 7D2. Note: the M6mkII (same Mp-count, same processor) has as faster burstrate than the 90D while dpaf might need more processing power than phase detect AF, so the 90D could have quite some processing power left for the AF system, while less AF points means less information to process compared to the 7DII. Less information is a bad thing in general, but if it is the least valuable information (only the very borders, no crosspoints, not the most precise anyway even with compatible lenses) it can be a good choice.

Shooting in high burst mode requires jpeg anyway

Why is that ?

The 7D2 does raw at 10 fps

O.k., in that case it is hard to work around the lack of a 2nd card slot.

Peter

so the pics can be back upped by sending the pics to your phone, so this could be a work around for the lack of a 2nd card slot.

Of course: the proof of the pudding is in the eating, but if the processing manages to have the speed and accuracy of the AF system to be on par with the 7DII the higher Mp count might be way more valuable than those border AF points. Those who prefer a crop camera should love a camera enabling them to crop even more.

As long as there is no 7Dmk3 there remains a possibility it will never come,

Of course.

and the rest is just semantics.

No, this is not a semantic argument at all. This is not about what the new body is called, it's about its features.

I do think there will be a 7Dmk3 though. But i don't think this 90D has so much predictive value about this.

Only that it leaves open the possibility. No more than that though.

-- hide signature --

If your facts are different we could save the peace just by calling it copy to copy variation.

1Dx4me Senior Member • Posts: 7,245
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users

Steve Balcombe wrote:

1Dx4me wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

indeed, no one said 90D is a replacement for 7Dmk2!

Actually it has been rumoured for months that the two lines would become one (as they used to be up to the 50D) and that the new model would therefore replace both. This could have made a lot of sense in a shrinking market, and only now do we know for sure that this is not happening.

"rumoured" indeed, someone's figment of imagination without knowing the spec sheet that was posted for the new 90D! even this post is not approved by Canon itself! but lets accept the spec sheet for the 90D for just a moment, it looks like a 80D on speed, but no resemblance to 7Dmk2! i haven't owned a 7Dmk2 but from the spec sheet, it was designed for speed and action, fantastic AF system and so on. the new 90D seems like a fabulous camera for general uses, a true upgrade for 80D. that is my understanding based on events  going around 90D (almost official) announcement

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1Dx4me Senior Member • Posts: 7,245
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users

BirdShooter7 wrote:

Before the 7d mk2 was announced there were a bunch of rumors that there would be no replacement for the 7d... I wouldn’t jump to any conclusions yet

indeed, that is how i believe at the moment! the posted spec sheet looks real good but knowing canon, they may clip a few features, just to P off the customers i'll believe the spec sheet when canon officially announces it, hopefully very soon!

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You miss 100 percent of the shots you didn't take!!! "Wayne Gretzky"

rrc1967 Contributing Member • Posts: 563
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
1

John Sheehy wrote:

BirdShooter7 wrote:

I actually take this as good news as I think it means we could still get a 7d mk3.

I don't know what to think yet; the joystick made me think that it was a 7D2 successor at first, but the burst rate did not improve over the 7D2, the dual-card slots were not there, and there are less AF points, so maybe there is still hope for a 7D3.

I hope that Canon is taking noise character more seriously with these new 32.5MP sensors. They got really sloppy and regressive with the 6D2/RP sensor. Even the R is a little noisier than the 5D4, despite allegedly using the same sensor.

It also just as importantly these items that would not increase the size of the camera, perhaps a bit of weight;

- only has C1 setting

- has top plate 80D ergonomics and not 7D ergonomics (this should have been a no brainer if this was a 7D replacement)

- doesn't have 7d weathersealing (relies on mechanical sealing)

- no pc sync (i think)

These items would increase the size, but are missing that are 7D specific and imo, kind of necessary for the 7D.

- does not have the 7D Mark II viewfinder but the 80D viewfinder

- the back has been simplified to the point where everything is on the touch screen because they had to remove buttons to fit in the joystick. there's no rating,etc buttons that are pretty necessary for sports,etc.

Myrgjorf Regular Member • Posts: 383
Re: Card failure

BAK wrote:

How often has you memory card failed, so that you need a second card?

Just curious.

BAK

A week ago (Sandisk CFast 2 64GB). RAW files lost but JPG copies on the secondary CF card.

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Oh no! He should know by now that "equivalence" is a forbidden word for APS-C but perfectly allowed for 1” Sonys, compact cameras, smartphones and maybe even for M43s.

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Jack Jian Regular Member • Posts: 175
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
3

BirdShooter7 wrote:

I have a strong suspicion that the AF in the 90d is the same one from the 80d. I see this as similar to what happened when the 70d came out. There were some aspects that were better than the 7d (the updated 20mp sensor for example) but it wasn’t better in every way. Eventually the 7d mk2 did arrive.

I don't understand why many people missed out on the 220,000 RGB + IR pixel metering sensor vs 150k from the 7D II and 360k from 1Dx II. These RGB + IR pixel "assists" a lot in identifying subjects and tracking. The new 90D has Servo face priority in OVF, which is a nice implementation of the RGB + IR pixel.

In comparison, the 80D has a mere 7,560 pixels divided into 63 segments.

So, even if the count of the AF points remains the same, the tracking performance will be hugely improved. (Eg., 5D III vs 5D IV, 1Dx vs mkII)

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BirdShooter7 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,715
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
1

Didn’t miss it, just not gonna get too excited about it until I see it in action.

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OP IR1234 Senior Member • Posts: 1,543
Re: Well, I Am Glad The Lines Were Not Merged
3

Rexgig0 wrote:

I will be pleasantly surprised, if/when a 7D III is officially announced. Meanwhile, my pair of 7D II cameras, plus my 5Ds R and 5D IV, are a wonderful team. I have yet to achieve each goal, on my EF L lens wish list. This is a wonderful time to be a Canon DSLR photographer.

I like how you put that "a wonderful team".

My issue isn't that the 7D2 is bad camera as it certainly isn't, we have 4 of them here and they make up the frontline cameras of the business. They are a joy to use.

But there was a lot of talk about the 80D and 7D3 coming together in the 90D, which clearly didn't happen. The 90D is a poor excuse for a 7D3 replacement if it is. So now my concern as it were is that there is no 7D3 on the horizon at this point.

And my reasoning is quite straight forward, the 7D2 is 5 years old now, it was released when the 7D was 5 years old, and 5 years really is about the maximum for a refresh. I don't mind long intervals between refreshes, but 5 years is right at the top of that delay.

From a business viewpoint, are we really going to be using 7D2s for another 5 years? Am I really going to field a 10 year old design in a few years as our frontline?

A refresh of the 7D2 would be nice. More MP for instance, touchscreen flippy screen (can't believe I'm saying that - until I bought a 6d2), updated Liveview, etc. There are many places where the 7D could be taken before DSLRs are pensioned off. A lot has happened in the last 5 years and I'd like the 7D range to be given those things.

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Chris Mak Senior Member • Posts: 2,333
Re: Well, I Am Glad The Lines Were Not Merged
1

IR1234 wrote:

Rexgig0 wrote:

I will be pleasantly surprised, if/when a 7D III is officially announced. Meanwhile, my pair of 7D II cameras, plus my 5Ds R and 5D IV, are a wonderful team. I have yet to achieve each goal, on my EF L lens wish list. This is a wonderful time to be a Canon DSLR photographer.

I like how you put that "a wonderful team".

My issue isn't that the 7D2 is bad camera as it certainly isn't, we have 4 of them here and they make up the frontline cameras of the business. They are a joy to use.

But there was a lot of talk about the 80D and 7D3 coming together in the 90D, which clearly didn't happen. The 90D is a poor excuse for a 7D3 replacement if it is. So now my concern as it were is that there is no 7D3 on the horizon at this point.

And my reasoning is quite straight forward, the 7D2 is 5 years old now, it was released when the 7D was 5 years old, and 5 years really is about the maximum for a refresh. I don't mind long intervals between refreshes, but 5 years is right at the top of that delay.

From a business viewpoint, are we really going to be using 7D2s for another 5 years? Am I really going to field a 10 year old design in a few years as our frontline?

A refresh of the 7D2 would be nice. More MP for instance, touchscreen flippy screen (can't believe I'm saying that - until I bought a 6d2), updated Liveview, etc. There are many places where the 7D could be taken before DSLRs are pensioned off. A lot has happened in the last 5 years and I'd like the 7D range to be given those things.

I think pretty much all Canon users agree that a 7DIII is highly desireable, even though not all Canon users would buy such a camera. The issue is though: does Canon wánt to make a 7DIII? No one has the answer, but the shift to mirrorless and the pressure of Sony are not helping. Canon may want to put all of its efforts and resources into the RF mount. Only time can tell I guess

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Mark B. Forum Pro • Posts: 26,122
Re: 90D. Well that’s disappointing for us 7D2 users
1

RogerZoul wrote:

IR1234 wrote:

So specs don’t seem to show dual cards or dual DIGIC, so the 90D isnt any sort of 7D2/80D compromise. It’s just an updated 80D.

I’m a Canon fan, but I really think they made a mistake dumping the 7D range.

But at least Canon just saved me $1500 as I won’t be buying a 90D anytime soon.

Who said Canon dumped the 7D line? Can you show a link for such a statement?

You can't believe all of the rumors around. Save your money and wait for the 7D3 or for an announcement from Canon saying that it isn't coming. I would expect to spend a little more than $1500, though.

I'll be very surprised if 1) there's a 7D III and 2) if the 90D retails for >$1,500.

I think the merging of certain features points to the 7D line coming to an end.  Time will, but it was 5 years between the original 7D and another 5 years to it's successor.  Now 5 years later there's not a hint of a 7D III but instead there's an 80D successor with features from the 7D II.

Mark

thomste Junior Member • Posts: 44
Re: Well, I Am Glad The Lines Were Not Merged
1

A refresh of the 7D2 would be nice. More MP for instance, touchscreen flippy screen (can't believe I'm saying that - until I bought a 6d2), updated Liveview, etc. There are many places where the 7D could be taken before DSLRs are pensioned off. A lot has happened in the last 5 years and I'd like the 7D range to be given those things.

Doesn't the 90D have more MP, a touch flippy screen & updated liveview?

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