New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 62,184
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?
2

jeffharris wrote:

rurikw wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

rurikw wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

DLBlack wrote:

Vincent in Geneva wrote:

I can only rejoice at this news reporting Olympus patents for f1.4 lenses:

https://www.43rumors.com/new-olympus-patent-discloses-the-10mm-12mm-14mm-and-16mm-f-1-4-primes-design/

My wish list to make them unique in a crowded MFT lens market:

- much smaller/lighter than f1.2 series

Hopefully a little smaller and lighter. Much smaller and lighter is asking too much.

Why? The f/1.2 series is enormous.

1.4 is less than 1/2 stop less so how could they be much smaller?

Oly 25mm f1.2. Panasonic 25mm f1.4

I have no idea what makes the Oly so big and the Pana so small but speed it can't be.

I remember film-era Nikon 50mm f1.4 and 50mm f1.2. The f1.2 was significantly bigger and heavier.

But fatter, not longer. The f/1.2 (still a current lens, by the way) was still compact by modern standards.

f/1.2

f/1.4

I really don’t get the Olympus over-sized lens thing. But, if you look at current FF lenses, they tend to be giant. I guess designing for high-res sensors (and avoiding software corrections) it must be necessary.

It's a fashion, started by Zeiss with the Otus. They decided on a no compromises design mainly for status reasons, I think. Since then other lens manufacturers have followed the no compromise route. You can look at the successive iterations of the Sigma 50mm f/1.4

Mark 1, already an unusually large f/1.4, at the time promoted as a no-compromise design.

Mark II (Art). After Otus had redefined 'no compromise'.

Photographers are obsessed by 'sharp glass'. It's not that it's necessary for high pixel counts. High pixel counts produce better results with all lenses.

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263, look deader.

glassoholic
glassoholic Senior Member • Posts: 4,167
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?

bobn2 wrote:

rurikw wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

DLBlack wrote:

Vincent in Geneva wrote:

I can only rejoice at this news reporting Olympus patents for f1.4 lenses:

https://www.43rumors.com/new-olympus-patent-discloses-the-10mm-12mm-14mm-and-16mm-f-1-4-primes-design/

My wish list to make them unique in a crowded MFT lens market:

- much smaller/lighter than f1.2 series

Hopefully a little smaller and lighter. Much smaller and lighter is asking too much.

Why? The f/1.2 series is enormous.

1.4 is less than 1/2 stop less so how could they be much smaller?

By making them much simpler and sacrificing a bit of edge resolution. An f/1.4 double gauss design has intrinsically six elements. They get elaborated a bit to eight or nine. The Olympus f/1.2 has 17 elements, it is enormously complex for what it does. The result is edge to edge sharpness wide open, but the cases when you want edge to edge at f/1.2 (or f/1.4) are quite few, since unless you have a flat subject, and unless you put the main subject at the edge, DOF is miking the periphery blurred in any case at those f-numbers. So, I think that a simple, eight or nine element DG design at f/1.4 with good centre sharpness and edges that firm up after f/2.8 or so (which is when DG designs tend to get edge to edge) and was really rather small would be just great. Imagine the OM-1 50/1.4 made half size and you get an idea of what we're talking about.

19 elements... not 17

Edge sharpness is sometimes important... an off centre portrait or a lineup of the bridal party in fading light. I had a Canon 35mm f2.0 in the 90's that I had to stop down to f2.8 for bridal party lineups as even in a 6" x 4" print, the outside faces were mushy at f2.0.

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bofo777 Senior Member • Posts: 1,653
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

To bad Olympus can’t make a 75 or 100 1.4 at a reasonable weight then we would be talking..

Or Panasonic.

Voigtländer recently announced a new M mount 75mm f1.5. Close enough to f1.4. 350g, 58mm filters, 63.3mm L x 62.8mm dia., 12 aperture blades. Looks perfect for my needs.

Yes, I t would be nice to see a native 100mm or 105mm lens. Even better if it were a macro lens doing double-duty as a telephoto lens!

Voigtlander makes wonderful lenses since I own one myself but rarely use it because of no AF.

Use it more!

I have a bunch of Voigtländers… native M4/3, M mount and L39. My faves, without a doubt. They're all such a pleasure to use and the image quality is excellent!

As for the "lack" of AF, contemporary manual focus tools… magnified view. and to a lesser extent because of it's lack of accuracy, focus peaking… it's SO much easier, quicker and FAR more accurate than the purely visual tools of the past… It's just much more direct and just plain better! Manual focus is also much more conscious and deliberate than AF. YES, I use both.

Certainly, it's a matter of preference and taste, but for me, the payoff outweighs "convenience".

This lens is quite interesting since most of my work is in portraits and weddings .. putting aside the AF and that this lens needs an adapter for MFT cameras which is another all most $200.00.. have you used any of these lenses with  an adapter and does it effect the performance....

 bofo777's gear list:bofo777's gear list
Olympus E-1 Olympus E-5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-M1 II Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50mm 1:2.0 Macro +12 more
jeffharris
jeffharris Veteran Member • Posts: 9,494
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?

bofo777 wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

To bad Olympus can’t make a 75 or 100 1.4 at a reasonable weight then we would be talking..

Or Panasonic.

Voigtländer recently announced a new M mount 75mm f1.5. Close enough to f1.4. 350g, 58mm filters, 63.3mm L x 62.8mm dia., 12 aperture blades. Looks perfect for my needs.

Yes, I t would be nice to see a native 100mm or 105mm lens. Even better if it were a macro lens doing double-duty as a telephoto lens!

Voigtlander makes wonderful lenses since I own one myself but rarely use it because of no AF.

Use it more!

I have a bunch of Voigtländers… native M4/3, M mount and L39. My faves, without a doubt. They're all such a pleasure to use and the image quality is excellent!

As for the "lack" of AF, contemporary manual focus tools… magnified view. and to a lesser extent because of it's lack of accuracy, focus peaking… it's SO much easier, quicker and FAR more accurate than the purely visual tools of the past… It's just much more direct and just plain better! Manual focus is also much more conscious and deliberate than AF. YES, I use both.

Certainly, it's a matter of preference and taste, but for me, the payoff outweighs "convenience".

This lens is quite interesting since most of my work is in portraits and weddings .. putting aside the AF and that this lens needs an adapter for MFT cameras which is another all most $200.00.. have you used any of these lenses with an adapter and does it effect the performance....

$200 for a lens adaptor? Really? Why? For a SpeedBooster, sure.

I have a number of adapted Voigtländers: Color-Skopar 21mm f4 (M), Nokton Classic 35mm f1.4 (M) and 75mm f2.5 Color Heliar (L39). Also a Jupiter 8 (50mm f2, L39 mount). These and my native M4/3 Voigtländers are my favorite lenses. Great image quality, well made and a pleasure to work with. Very nice tools!

L to R: GX8 + 21mm f4, Jupiter 8, 35mm f1.4, 75mm f2.5

For adapting lenses, I use simple, inexpensive, dumb tube adaptors from Fotodiox. They're well made, fit snugly and are guaranteed to focus to infinity (they do that and a touch beyond). I've never had a problem with any of them and have 4 so far, one for each lens.

M mount adaptor, $20

https://fotodioxpro.com/collections/lens-mount-adapters/products/lm-mft

L39 screw mount adaptor, $13

https://fotodioxpro.com/collections/lens-mount-adapters/products/m39-mft

At some point I can see myself getting a FF camera (S-series GX8?, Z6 version 2? Sigma fp?) and a bunch of lens adaptors.

I bit the bullet and pre-ordered the 75mm f1.5. Shipping August 8th!

 jeffharris's gear list:jeffharris's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH Voigtlander Nokton 25mm F0.95 Voigtlander Nokton 42.5mm F0.95 Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm F0.95 Aspherical +32 more
pocoloco Senior Member • Posts: 2,266
This would be nice....

10mm f1.4, 7 or 9 rounded aperture blades, sunstars with f5.6, takes filters

17.5 f1.4, 7 or 9 rounded aperture blades, sunstars with f5.6

25mm f1.4, the above

All weather sealed, not much bigger then the f1.8 line up

Will buy them all!

 pocoloco's gear list:pocoloco's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ5 Sony RX100 Olympus Tough TG-2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M1 +16 more
jeffharris
jeffharris Veteran Member • Posts: 9,494
Re: This would be nice....
1

pocoloco wrote:

10mm f1.4, 7 or 9 rounded aperture blades, sunstars with f5.6, takes filters

17.5 f1.4, 7 or 9 rounded aperture blades, sunstars with f5.6

You want an even number of aperture blades for sharp and symmetrical starbursts, like the Voigtländers with their 10 aperture blades. Odd numbered blades give more diffuse starbursts.

The Ponte Luís I Bridge in Porto Portugal last November, shot with a GX8 and Voigtländer 42.5mm f0.95.

View at 100% and look at the cluster of starbursts just above the big one left of center.

Never mind, I did it for you.

All weather sealed…

PLEASE!!!!

 jeffharris's gear list:jeffharris's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH Voigtlander Nokton 25mm F0.95 Voigtlander Nokton 42.5mm F0.95 Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm F0.95 Aspherical +32 more
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 62,184
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?

glassoholic wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

rurikw wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

DLBlack wrote:

Vincent in Geneva wrote:

I can only rejoice at this news reporting Olympus patents for f1.4 lenses:

https://www.43rumors.com/new-olympus-patent-discloses-the-10mm-12mm-14mm-and-16mm-f-1-4-primes-design/

My wish list to make them unique in a crowded MFT lens market:

- much smaller/lighter than f1.2 series

Hopefully a little smaller and lighter. Much smaller and lighter is asking too much.

Why? The f/1.2 series is enormous.

1.4 is less than 1/2 stop less so how could they be much smaller?

By making them much simpler and sacrificing a bit of edge resolution. An f/1.4 double gauss design has intrinsically six elements. They get elaborated a bit to eight or nine. The Olympus f/1.2 has 17 elements, it is enormously complex for what it does. The result is edge to edge sharpness wide open, but the cases when you want edge to edge at f/1.2 (or f/1.4) are quite few, since unless you have a flat subject, and unless you put the main subject at the edge, DOF is miking the periphery blurred in any case at those f-numbers. So, I think that a simple, eight or nine element DG design at f/1.4 with good centre sharpness and edges that firm up after f/2.8 or so (which is when DG designs tend to get edge to edge) and was really rather small would be just great. Imagine the OM-1 50/1.4 made half size and you get an idea of what we're talking about.

19 elements... not 17

Even more so, then.

Edge sharpness is sometimes important... an off centre portrait or a lineup of the bridal party in fading light. I had a Canon 35mm f2.0 in the 90's that I had to stop down to f2.8 for bridal party lineups as even in a 6" x 4" print, the outside faces were mushy at f2.0.

Yes, it's sometimes important. If it's going to be important to you often, buy one of the big lenses, if not, then it's nice to have the small option.

Still, it takes a long time to get a line of people straight enough to all be in the DOF at wide aperture. The mushiness is often due to field curvature, so could be countered by persuading the guests to line up in a slight bow.

-- hide signature --

263, look deader.

bofo777 Senior Member • Posts: 1,653
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

To bad Olympus can’t make a 75 or 100 1.4 at a reasonable weight then we would be talking..

Or Panasonic.

Voigtländer recently announced a new M mount 75mm f1.5. Close enough to f1.4. 350g, 58mm filters, 63.3mm L x 62.8mm dia., 12 aperture blades. Looks perfect for my needs.

Yes, I t would be nice to see a native 100mm or 105mm lens. Even better if it were a macro lens doing double-duty as a telephoto lens!

Voigtlander makes wonderful lenses since I own one myself but rarely use it because of no AF.

Use it more!

I have a bunch of Voigtländers… native M4/3, M mount and L39. My faves, without a doubt. They're all such a pleasure to use and the image quality is excellent!

As for the "lack" of AF, contemporary manual focus tools… magnified view. and to a lesser extent because of it's lack of accuracy, focus peaking… it's SO much easier, quicker and FAR more accurate than the purely visual tools of the past… It's just much more direct and just plain better! Manual focus is also much more conscious and deliberate than AF. YES, I use both.

Certainly, it's a matter of preference and taste, but for me, the payoff outweighs "convenience".

This lens is quite interesting since most of my work is in portraits and weddings .. putting aside the AF and that this lens needs an adapter for MFT cameras which is another all most $200.00.. have you used any of these lenses with an adapter and does it effect the performance....

$200 for a lens adaptor? Really? Why? For a SpeedBooster, sure.

I have a number of adapted Voigtländers: Color-Skopar 21mm f4 (M), Nokton Classic 35mm f1.4 (M) and 75mm f2.5 Color Heliar (L39). Also a Jupiter 8 (50mm f2, L39 mount). These and my native M4/3 Voigtländers are my favorite lenses. Great image quality, well made and a pleasure to work with. Very nice tools!

L to R: GX8 + 21mm f4, Jupiter 8, 35mm f1.4, 75mm f2.5

For adapting lenses, I use simple, inexpensive, dumb tube adaptors from Fotodiox. They're well made, fit snugly and are guaranteed to focus to infinity (they do that and a touch beyond). I've never had a problem with any of them and have 4 so far, one for each lens.

M mount adaptor, $20

https://fotodioxpro.com/collections/lens-mount-adapters/products/lm-mft

L39 screw mount adaptor, $13

https://fotodioxpro.com/collections/lens-mount-adapters/products/m39-mft

At some point I can see myself getting a FF camera (S-series GX8?, Z6 version 2? Sigma fp?) and a bunch of lens adaptors.

I bit the bullet and pre-ordered the 75mm f1.5. Shipping August 8th!

Thanks for info on cheaper adapters and not the ones sold by Voigtlander venders but wow  a wedding would sure be tidious and almost impossible to get all those instant shots with all those MF lenses...

 bofo777's gear list:bofo777's gear list
Olympus E-1 Olympus E-5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus E-M1 II Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50mm 1:2.0 Macro +12 more
jeffharris
jeffharris Veteran Member • Posts: 9,494
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?

bofo777 wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

To bad Olympus can’t make a 75 or 100 1.4 at a reasonable weight then we would be talking..

Or Panasonic.

Voigtländer recently announced a new M mount 75mm f1.5. Close enough to f1.4. 350g, 58mm filters, 63.3mm L x 62.8mm dia., 12 aperture blades. Looks perfect for my needs.

Yes, I t would be nice to see a native 100mm or 105mm lens. Even better if it were a macro lens doing double-duty as a telephoto lens!

Voigtlander makes wonderful lenses since I own one myself but rarely use it because of no AF.

Use it more!

I have a bunch of Voigtländers… native M4/3, M mount and L39. My faves, without a doubt. They're all such a pleasure to use and the image quality is excellent!

As for the "lack" of AF, contemporary manual focus tools… magnified view. and to a lesser extent because of it's lack of accuracy, focus peaking… it's SO much easier, quicker and FAR more accurate than the purely visual tools of the past… It's just much more direct and just plain better! Manual focus is also much more conscious and deliberate than AF. YES, I use both.

Certainly, it's a matter of preference and taste, but for me, the payoff outweighs "convenience".

This lens is quite interesting since most of my work is in portraits and weddings .. putting aside the AF and that this lens needs an adapter for MFT cameras which is another all most $200.00.. have you used any of these lenses with an adapter and does it effect the performance....

$200 for a lens adaptor? Really? Why? For a SpeedBooster, sure.

I have a number of adapted Voigtländers: Color-Skopar 21mm f4 (M), Nokton Classic 35mm f1.4 (M) and 75mm f2.5 Color Heliar (L39). Also a Jupiter 8 (50mm f2, L39 mount). These and my native M4/3 Voigtländers are my favorite lenses. Great image quality, well made and a pleasure to work with. Very nice tools!

L to R: GX8 + 21mm f4, Jupiter 8, 35mm f1.4, 75mm f2.5

For adapting lenses, I use simple, inexpensive, dumb tube adaptors from Fotodiox. They're well made, fit snugly and are guaranteed to focus to infinity (they do that and a touch beyond). I've never had a problem with any of them and have 4 so far, one for each lens.

M mount adaptor, $20

https://fotodioxpro.com/collections/lens-mount-adapters/products/lm-mft

L39 screw mount adaptor, $13

https://fotodioxpro.com/collections/lens-mount-adapters/products/m39-mft

At some point I can see myself getting a FF camera (S-series GX8?, Z6 version 2? Sigma fp?) and a bunch of lens adaptors.

I bit the bullet and pre-ordered the 75mm f1.5. Shipping August 8th!

Thanks for info on cheaper adapters and not the ones sold by Voigtlander venders but wow a wedding would sure be tidious and almost impossible to get all those instant shots with all those MF lenses...

Weddings are pretty damn tedious.

But just think, there was a time where EVERY lens was manual focus, yet somehow people were able to produce lasting images. Even at weddings.

 jeffharris's gear list:jeffharris's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 7-14mm F4 ASPH Voigtlander Nokton 25mm F0.95 Voigtlander Nokton 42.5mm F0.95 Voigtlander Nokton 17.5mm F0.95 Aspherical +32 more
rurikw Senior Member • Posts: 2,646
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?

bobn2 wrote:

glassoholic wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

rurikw wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

DLBlack wrote:

Vincent in Geneva wrote:

I can only rejoice at this news reporting Olympus patents for f1.4 lenses:

https://www.43rumors.com/new-olympus-patent-discloses-the-10mm-12mm-14mm-and-16mm-f-1-4-primes-design/

My wish list to make them unique in a crowded MFT lens market:

- much smaller/lighter than f1.2 series

Hopefully a little smaller and lighter. Much smaller and lighter is asking too much.

Why? The f/1.2 series is enormous.

1.4 is less than 1/2 stop less so how could they be much smaller?

By making them much simpler and sacrificing a bit of edge resolution. An f/1.4 double gauss design has intrinsically six elements. They get elaborated a bit to eight or nine. The Olympus f/1.2 has 17 elements, it is enormously complex for what it does. The result is edge to edge sharpness wide open, but the cases when you want edge to edge at f/1.2 (or f/1.4) are quite few, since unless you have a flat subject, and unless you put the main subject at the edge, DOF is miking the periphery blurred in any case at those f-numbers. So, I think that a simple, eight or nine element DG design at f/1.4 with good centre sharpness and edges that firm up after f/2.8 or so (which is when DG designs tend to get edge to edge) and was really rather small would be just great. Imagine the OM-1 50/1.4 made half size and you get an idea of what we're talking about.

Sounds good but the patent chart didn't look quite like that.

19 elements... not 17

Even more so, then.

I counted 13 elements on the patent chart. Looked awfully big and complicated but with those numbers it would be something in between.

 rurikw's gear list:rurikw's gear list
Nikon Coolpix 5000 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1 Sigma DP1 Merrill Sigma DP2 Merrill Sigma DP3 Merrill +28 more
Osa25 Senior Member • Posts: 1,801
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?
1

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

jeffharris wrote:

bofo777 wrote:

To bad Olympus can’t make a 75 or 100 1.4 at a reasonable weight then we would be talking..

Or Panasonic.

Voigtländer recently announced a new M mount 75mm f1.5. Close enough to f1.4. 350g, 58mm filters, 63.3mm L x 62.8mm dia., 12 aperture blades. Looks perfect for my needs.

Yes, I t would be nice to see a native 100mm or 105mm lens. Even better if it were a macro lens doing double-duty as a telephoto lens!

Voigtlander makes wonderful lenses since I own one myself but rarely use it because of no AF.

Use it more!

I have a bunch of Voigtländers… native M4/3, M mount and L39. My faves, without a doubt. They're all such a pleasure to use and the image quality is excellent!

As for the "lack" of AF, contemporary manual focus tools… magnified view. and to a lesser extent because of it's lack of accuracy, focus peaking… it's SO much easier, quicker and FAR more accurate than the purely visual tools of the past… It's just much more direct and just plain better! Manual focus is also much more conscious and deliberate than AF. YES, I use both.

Certainly, it's a matter of preference and taste, but for me, the payoff outweighs "convenience".

This lens is quite interesting since most of my work is in portraits and weddings .. putting aside the AF and that this lens needs an adapter for MFT cameras which is another all most $200.00.. have you used any of these lenses with an adapter and does it effect the performance....

$200 for a lens adaptor? Really? Why? For a SpeedBooster, sure.

I have a number of adapted Voigtländers: Color-Skopar 21mm f4 (M), Nokton Classic 35mm f1.4 (M) and 75mm f2.5 Color Heliar (L39). Also a Jupiter 8 (50mm f2, L39 mount). These and my native M4/3 Voigtländers are my favorite lenses. Great image quality, well made and a pleasure to work with. Very nice tools!

L to R: GX8 + 21mm f4, Jupiter 8, 35mm f1.4, 75mm f2.5

For adapting lenses, I use simple, inexpensive, dumb tube adaptors from Fotodiox. They're well made, fit snugly and are guaranteed to focus to infinity (they do that and a touch beyond). I've never had a problem with any of them and have 4 so far, one for each lens.

M mount adaptor, $20

https://fotodioxpro.com/collections/lens-mount-adapters/products/lm-mft

L39 screw mount adaptor, $13

https://fotodioxpro.com/collections/lens-mount-adapters/products/m39-mft

At some point I can see myself getting a FF camera (S-series GX8?, Z6 version 2? Sigma fp?) and a bunch of lens adaptors.

I bit the bullet and pre-ordered the 75mm f1.5. Shipping August 8th!

Thanks for info on cheaper adapters and not the ones sold by Voigtlander venders but wow a wedding would sure be tidious and almost impossible to get all those instant shots with all those MF lenses...

Weddings are pretty damn tedious.

But just think, there was a time where EVERY lens was manual focus, yet somehow people were able to produce lasting images. Even at weddings.

They didn’t spend time making work of it - quite the opposite. And they’d have snapped your fingers off if you offered then an autofocus capability.

 Osa25's gear list:Osa25's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM5 Panasonic 20mm F1.7 II Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 12-32mm F3.5-5.6 Mega OIS Panasonic Lumix G 42.5mm F1.7 +1 more
pocoloco Senior Member • Posts: 2,266
Re: This would be nice....

jeffharris wrote:

pocoloco wrote:

10mm f1.4, 7 or 9 rounded aperture blades, sunstars with f5.6, takes filters

17.5 f1.4, 7 or 9 rounded aperture blades, sunstars with f5.6

You want an even number of aperture blades for sharp and symmetrical starbursts, like the Voigtländers with their 10 aperture blades. Odd numbered blades give more diffuse starbursts.

All weather sealed…

PLEASE!!!!

At least... you were able to derive what I want!

I like what I have seen from the Voigtlander 17.5mm and if 10 blades is what it takes.. so be it, I also like what I see from my Laowa 7.5mm with its 7 blades...

Love these bursts in the lights!!!

Like I said... will buy them all!!!

 pocoloco's gear list:pocoloco's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ5 Sony RX100 Olympus Tough TG-2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX7 Olympus E-M1 +16 more
bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 62,184
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?

rurikw wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

glassoholic wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

rurikw wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

DLBlack wrote:

Vincent in Geneva wrote:

I can only rejoice at this news reporting Olympus patents for f1.4 lenses:

https://www.43rumors.com/new-olympus-patent-discloses-the-10mm-12mm-14mm-and-16mm-f-1-4-primes-design/

My wish list to make them unique in a crowded MFT lens market:

- much smaller/lighter than f1.2 series

Hopefully a little smaller and lighter. Much smaller and lighter is asking too much.

Why? The f/1.2 series is enormous.

1.4 is less than 1/2 stop less so how could they be much smaller?

By making them much simpler and sacrificing a bit of edge resolution. An f/1.4 double gauss design has intrinsically six elements. They get elaborated a bit to eight or nine. The Olympus f/1.2 has 17 elements, it is enormously complex for what it does. The result is edge to edge sharpness wide open, but the cases when you want edge to edge at f/1.2 (or f/1.4) are quite few, since unless you have a flat subject, and unless you put the main subject at the edge, DOF is miking the periphery blurred in any case at those f-numbers. So, I think that a simple, eight or nine element DG design at f/1.4 with good centre sharpness and edges that firm up after f/2.8 or so (which is when DG designs tend to get edge to edge) and was really rather small would be just great. Imagine the OM-1 50/1.4 made half size and you get an idea of what we're talking about.

Sounds good but the patent chart didn't look quite like that.

The 'patent chart' for what didn't look like what?

19 elements... not 17

Even more so, then.

I counted 13 elements on the patent chart. Looked awfully big and complicated but with those numbers it would be something in between.

What are you talking about here? As Glassoholic pointed out, I got the numbers for the Olympus f/1.2 wrong, I said 17, it has 19. Here it is:

When I count, I get 19, just as glassoholic suggests. What are you saying has 13? By contrast here is the Panasonic 25/1.4

Nine elements. Still a big lens. Here's the old Olympus OM 50/1.4

Classic 7 element DG design. A dinky little lens for what it was. Now imagine a half size one. This is 40mm for the lens flange, which is 86mm from the image plane.Half size would be 43mm, which would protrude 27mm from the mFT lens flange. That would be a usefully small lens.

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263, look deader.

rurikw Senior Member • Posts: 2,646
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?
1

bobn2 wrote:

rurikw wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

glassoholic wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

rurikw wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

DLBlack wrote:

Vincent in Geneva wrote:

I can only rejoice at this news reporting Olympus patents for f1.4 lenses:

https://www.43rumors.com/new-olympus-patent-discloses-the-10mm-12mm-14mm-and-16mm-f-1-4-primes-design/

My wish list to make them unique in a crowded MFT lens market:

- much smaller/lighter than f1.2 series

Hopefully a little smaller and lighter. Much smaller and lighter is asking too much.

Why? The f/1.2 series is enormous.

1.4 is less than 1/2 stop less so how could they be much smaller?

By making them much simpler and sacrificing a bit of edge resolution. An f/1.4 double gauss design has intrinsically six elements. They get elaborated a bit to eight or nine. The Olympus f/1.2 has 17 elements, it is enormously complex for what it does. The result is edge to edge sharpness wide open, but the cases when you want edge to edge at f/1.2 (or f/1.4) are quite few, since unless you have a flat subject, and unless you put the main subject at the edge, DOF is miking the periphery blurred in any case at those f-numbers. So, I think that a simple, eight or nine element DG design at f/1.4 with good centre sharpness and edges that firm up after f/2.8 or so (which is when DG designs tend to get edge to edge) and was really rather small would be just great. Imagine the OM-1 50/1.4 made half size and you get an idea of what we're talking about.

Sounds good but the patent chart didn't look quite like that.

The 'patent chart' for what didn't look like what?

The one in OP's link didn't look like a small 6-9 element lens.

19 elements... not 17

Even more so, then.

I counted 13 elements on the patent chart. Looked awfully big and complicated but with those numbers it would be something in between.

What are you talking about here? As Glassoholic pointed out, I got the numbers for the Olympus f/1.2 wrong, I said 17, it has 19. Here it is:

When I count, I get 19, just as glassoholic suggests. What are you saying has 13? By contrast here is the Panasonic 25/1.4

Nine elements. Still a big lens. Here's the old Olympus OM 50/1.4

Classic 7 element DG design. A dinky little lens for what it was. Now imagine a half size one. This is 40mm for the lens flange, which is 86mm from the image plane.Half size would be 43mm, which would protrude 27mm from the mFT lens flange. That would be a usefully small lens.

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263, look deader.

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 62,184
Re: New Olympus MFT 1.4 prime lenses?
1

rurikw wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

rurikw wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

glassoholic wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

rurikw wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

DLBlack wrote:

Vincent in Geneva wrote:

I can only rejoice at this news reporting Olympus patents for f1.4 lenses:

https://www.43rumors.com/new-olympus-patent-discloses-the-10mm-12mm-14mm-and-16mm-f-1-4-primes-design/

My wish list to make them unique in a crowded MFT lens market:

- much smaller/lighter than f1.2 series

Hopefully a little smaller and lighter. Much smaller and lighter is asking too much.

Why? The f/1.2 series is enormous.

1.4 is less than 1/2 stop less so how could they be much smaller?

By making them much simpler and sacrificing a bit of edge resolution. An f/1.4 double gauss design has intrinsically six elements. They get elaborated a bit to eight or nine. The Olympus f/1.2 has 17 elements, it is enormously complex for what it does. The result is edge to edge sharpness wide open, but the cases when you want edge to edge at f/1.2 (or f/1.4) are quite few, since unless you have a flat subject, and unless you put the main subject at the edge, DOF is miking the periphery blurred in any case at those f-numbers. So, I think that a simple, eight or nine element DG design at f/1.4 with good centre sharpness and edges that firm up after f/2.8 or so (which is when DG designs tend to get edge to edge) and was really rather small would be just great. Imagine the OM-1 50/1.4 made half size and you get an idea of what we're talking about.

Sounds good but the patent chart didn't look quite like that.

The 'patent chart' for what didn't look like what?

The one in OP's link didn't look like a small 6-9 element lens.

Yes, but then he said what was his 'wish list' - much smaller and lighter. I don't think making them much smaller is too much to ask, even if it means the lenses not being based on this particular patent. The majority of patents don't make it to products.

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263, look deader.

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