Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
Todd Jones
Todd Jones Senior Member • Posts: 1,480
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?

NextShowForSure wrote:

Difficult to see how the traditional DSLR user is going to want to jump in to this constant better by the minute technology churn that Sony are in to promoting. It would have thought it would be scary for a professional to think his gear is going to be obsolete in no time at all and depreciated in value by his old model in production but heavily discounted.

Is the Sony technology push going too fast and destabilising the industry. The user base is rattled also and tensions between brands and formats getting a bit nastier than usual.

Sony sells A LOT OF SENSORS it's 💰💰💰 😁

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Todd
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Todd Jones
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Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?

biza43 wrote:

This reminds me of the following improvements when they were introduced:

1. Who needs AF?

2. Who needs image stabilization?

3. Who needs higher resolution than X - number?

4. Nikon, when they said that FF digital was not necessary - at the time, Canon took the lead, and Nikon could not keep up.

5. Who needs eye - AF?

6. Etc...

Want or need? There is awful lot of fantastic photography out there from before these technological advances!

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Todd Jones
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Re: You don't like it, so it's wrong

GodSpeaks wrote:

Good argument... NOT.

You do not need/want the resolution, so don't buy the camera and ignore all the (over)hype. The hype is also known as marketing.

Just buy/use what YOU need for a camera and don't worry about what others are doing/using. Only someone who is very insecure would be worrying about any of this.

What are you going to do when Nikon and Canon announce their new 60+MP FF DSLR and/or mirrorless camera? How did you react when Fuji announced their 100MP GFX?

Probably same way I did, "boy I wish they would put that money that they put into the megapixels on that sensor and use it for better autofocus, smaller camera size, lighter camera, longer battery life, better viewfinder, etc because I'm not in the billboard industry".

But I do have a 30 x 20 image on my wall from a 12mp D700 printed on aluminum that has tons of detail even very close.

It's all needs and wants and they are different for everyone. Some of us would just rather have the money go into other camera body features or improvements.

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MrALLCAPS
MrALLCAPS Contributing Member • Posts: 912
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?
1

Batdude wrote:

Where, how and why did this resolution thing start to begin with? I mean, who on earth needs so much resolution??? I am going to guess that only a few photographers need such cameras. I certainly don't. Most of the stuff I do is for people to post it on facebook for them to post and view their photos on a phone. Simple as that. I have shot thousands and thousands of high quality photos with my 16MP cameras and so far nobody has require that I use a high resolution camera. Like I said, I am sure there are other fields where high res images are needed and that's totally cool with me.

I'm not happy regarding where the camera industry is heading why?

1) Having to edit large files for no good reason

2) Too time consuming

3) Will have to upgrade computer system and hardware. I just did that close to two years ago and I'm already starting to feel like the system I got is too slow and I'm only PP 16MP files. Yes for sure I have noticed that storage has gone down in price dramatically but still, what's the point?

Yeah I can simply select the lower resolution file size setting in the camera, but still, what's the point? Personally I don't like the look of images that come out of cameras that have all this cramped up megapixels. Images are starting to look like when I went from Plasma TV to LCD with that nasty ugly unpleasant soap opera look. I mean come on man is that where we are heading? And regarding Fuji IQ, I fell in love with Fuji some years ago when I discovered the S5 Pro by pure accident because someone posted some photos and they did look very different than the Nikon D7000 I was using at that time. But even now I'm not seeing and feeling that same love from the images coming out of the Fuji cameras. I'm just not seeing the same thing anymore guys sorry.

No need to apologize to us, Maybe its just You. I for one still see what brought me over to Fuji since my X-E2, so I can't see what you mean. If you're going to let a bogus "MP War" get in between you and your photography, maybe you should persue somthing else.

Are sensors with less resolution with bigger pixels really gone forever and are we never again going to get those gorgeous saturated looking pictures? I mean a reasonable amount of resolution is fine with me I have no beef with that but man I think this is getting way our of hand and I find all this ridiculous.

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MikePennPhoto
MikePennPhoto Senior Member • Posts: 1,392
Re: You don't like it, so it's wrong

Todd Jones wrote:

GodSpeaks wrote:

Good argument... NOT.

You do not need/want the resolution, so don't buy the camera and ignore all the (over)hype. The hype is also known as marketing.

Just buy/use what YOU need for a camera and don't worry about what others are doing/using. Only someone who is very insecure would be worrying about any of this.

What are you going to do when Nikon and Canon announce their new 60+MP FF DSLR and/or mirrorless camera? How did you react when Fuji announced their 100MP GFX?

Probably same way I did, "boy I wish they would put that money that they put into the megapixels on that sensor and use it for better autofocus, smaller camera size, lighter camera, longer battery life, better viewfinder, etc because I'm not in the billboard industry".

But I do have a 30 x 20 image on my wall from a 12mp D700 printed on aluminum that has tons of detail even very close.

It's all needs and wants and they are different for everyone. Some of us would just rather have the money go into other camera body features or improvements.

The problem is that these gear heads set a dangerous precedence by continuously buying the latest spec camera. In return the manufactures produce cameras the are a jack of all trades but master of none. They feed off of amateurs insecurities.

biza43 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,815
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?

Todd Jones wrote:

biza43 wrote:

Many photographers have clients that require high resolutions. It has been like that for decades, where we had film sizes from 35mm to large format.

For what end result is that mp needed or could they be caught up by by the mp race, please explain or show that need in use? Thanks

I know a couple of professional photogs in Portugal (my country) that need high res for what they do. They typically shoot fashion, corporate, studio, some also landscape. After all, high res today is about the same thing why folks used to shoot MF and LF in the past.

Worldwide, there are many others.

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biza43 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,815
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?

Todd Jones wrote:

biza43 wrote:

This reminds me of the following improvements when they were introduced:

1. Who needs AF?

2. Who needs image stabilization?

3. Who needs higher resolution than X - number?

4. Nikon, when they said that FF digital was not necessary - at the time, Canon took the lead, and Nikon could not keep up.

5. Who needs eye - AF?

6. Etc...

Want or need? There is awful lot of fantastic photography out there from before these technological advances!

Sure there is. And for those that do not need these advances, those options are still available. No one forces anybody to buy anything.

I, for one, like to embrace progress, and I am glad that we have AF, stabilization, etc. I also know that I don't need high res cameras, but I don't force upon others what they need or want. It's a free society.

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biza43 Forum Pro • Posts: 10,815
Re: You don't like it, so it's wrong

Todd Jones wrote:

GodSpeaks wrote:

Good argument... NOT.

You do not need/want the resolution, so don't buy the camera and ignore all the (over)hype. The hype is also known as marketing.

Just buy/use what YOU need for a camera and don't worry about what others are doing/using. Only someone who is very insecure would be worrying about any of this.

What are you going to do when Nikon and Canon announce their new 60+MP FF DSLR and/or mirrorless camera? How did you react when Fuji announced their 100MP GFX?

Probably same way I did, "boy I wish they would put that money that they put into the megapixels on that sensor and use it for better autofocus, smaller camera size, lighter camera, longer battery life, better viewfinder, etc because I'm not in the billboard industry".

Sony are just doing that. The A7RIV has better AF, longer battery life, better viewfinder, pixel shift. It is small and light. Things are not exclusive, today high res sensors can be coupled with other processing power advances.

But I do have a 30 x 20 image on my wall from a 12mp D700 printed on aluminum that has tons of detail even very close.

Yes. But others may require even more detail, or crop a lot and still preserve detail.

It's all needs and wants and they are different for everyone. Some of us would just rather have the money go into other camera body features or improvements.

And it is going. Look at Fuji's own GFX100 - 100 MP with IBIS. And improving in AF too.

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michaeladawson Forum Pro • Posts: 13,445
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?
1

Batdude wrote:

Where, how and why did this resolution thing start to begin with?

It began with the introduction of the first digital camera.  Actually, that's wrong.  It began with the introduction of film.  Even film advanced with the production of finer grain film with finer grain development processes.

I mean, who on earth needs so much resolution??? I am going to guess that only a few photographers need such cameras. I certainly don't. Most of the stuff I do is for people to post it on facebook for them to post and view their photos on a phone. Simple as that.

Then don't buy the higher resolution cameras.

I have shot thousands and thousands of high quality photos with my 16MP cameras and so far nobody has require that I use a high resolution camera. Like I said, I am sure there are other fields where high res images are needed and that's totally cool with me.

If you agree with that then someone has to make those cameras.  Who's it gonna be?

I'm not happy regarding where the camera industry is heading why?

It's not heading anywhere new.

Yeah I can simply select the lower resolution file size setting in the camera, but still, what's the point?

Well, if it's as simple as you selecting a lower resolution file size then do it.  Let others have their high resolution.  Isn't that the point?

Are sensors with less resolution with bigger pixels really gone forever and are we never again going to get those gorgeous saturated looking pictures? I mean a reasonable amount of resolution is fine with me I have no beef with that but man I think this is getting way our of hand and I find all this ridiculous.

We should all be held to your definition of "reasonable amount of resolution?"

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ccrodaca Regular Member • Posts: 187
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?
1

I sold my X100 3 years ago, but just bought back another used X100 and sold my X100s .

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Todd Jones
Todd Jones Senior Member • Posts: 1,480
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?

biza43 wrote:

Todd Jones wrote:

biza43 wrote:

Many photographers have clients that require high resolutions. It has been like that for decades, where we had film sizes from 35mm to large format.

For what end result is that mp needed or could they be caught up by by the mp race, please explain or show that need in use? Thanks

I know a couple of professional photogs in Portugal (my country) that need high res for what they do. They typically shoot fashion, corporate, studio, some also landscape. After all, high res today is about the same thing why folks used to shoot MF and LF in the past.

Worldwide, there are many others.

Right, a couple. And worldwide a tiny percentage (that's a guess that I'm pretty comfortable making).

You don't want to pay for the F1 engine in your daily commuter but you want the technology that is learned from F1 like safety, handling, new materials.

But a 4 or 6 cylinder in my car is perfect but I'd LIKE to have the other new technology that I can actually use with my 4 cylinder car. And I'm going to make another comfortable guess, that most photographers don't need it at all even if they think they do.

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Todd
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Todd Jones
Todd Jones Senior Member • Posts: 1,480
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?

biza43 wrote:

Todd Jones wrote:

biza43 wrote:

This reminds me of the following improvements when they were introduced:

1. Who needs AF?

2. Who needs image stabilization?

3. Who needs higher resolution than X - number?

4. Nikon, when they said that FF digital was not necessary - at the time, Canon took the lead, and Nikon could not keep up.

5. Who needs eye - AF?

6. Etc...

Want or need? There is awful lot of fantastic photography out there from before these technological advances!

Sure there is. And for those that do not need these advances, those options are still available. No one forces anybody to buy anything.

I, for one, like to embrace progress, and I am glad that we have AF, stabilization, etc. I also know that I don't need high res cameras, but I don't force upon others what they need or want. It's a free society.

Just want the choice & I'm sorry but I don't see Fuji since we're on that forum for a reason making a 12 or 16mp camera soon, do you know something I don't?

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stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 22,784
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?
1

Todd Jones wrote:

biza43 wrote:

Todd Jones wrote:

biza43 wrote:

Many photographers have clients that require high resolutions. It has been like that for decades, where we had film sizes from 35mm to large format.

For what end result is that mp needed or could they be caught up by by the mp race, please explain or show that need in use? Thanks

I know a couple of professional photogs in Portugal (my country) that need high res for what they do. They typically shoot fashion, corporate, studio, some also landscape. After all, high res today is about the same thing why folks used to shoot MF and LF in the past.

Worldwide, there are many others.

Right, a couple. And worldwide a tiny percentage (that's a guess that I'm pretty comfortable making).

You don't want to pay for the F1 engine in your daily commuter but you want the technology that is learned from F1 like safety, handling, new materials.

But a 4 or 6 cylinder in my car is perfect but I'd LIKE to have the other new technology that I can actually use with my 4 cylinder car. And I'm going to make another comfortable guess, that most photographers don't need it at all even if they think they do.

This is rarely about need, it's mostly about want. I didn't need a 5 litre V8, but I wanted it and I like what it does for me on a daily basis both in it's sound, acceleration and handling, even if I rarely break the speed limit. But I could have had plenty of fun with a 2.5 litre Mazda 3.

In the same way, for those who don't need 60Mp, there is still benefit. If we're in the business of telling companies what they shouldn't and shouldn't manufacture based on some loosely defined need and our own perception of what is "ridiculous", we might as well dial the clock back to USSR days and live in the Soviet Union.

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Todd Jones
Todd Jones Senior Member • Posts: 1,480
Re: You don't like it, so it's wrong

Old Ricoh User wrote:

Todd Jones wrote:

GodSpeaks wrote:

Good argument... NOT.

You do not need/want the resolution, so don't buy the camera and ignore all the (over)hype. The hype is also known as marketing.

Just buy/use what YOU need for a camera and don't worry about what others are doing/using. Only someone who is very insecure would be worrying about any of this.

What are you going to do when Nikon and Canon announce their new 60+MP FF DSLR and/or mirrorless camera? How did you react when Fuji announced their 100MP GFX?

Probably same way I did, "boy I wish they would put that money that they put into the megapixels on that sensor and use it for better autofocus, smaller camera size, lighter camera, longer battery life, better viewfinder, etc because I'm not in the billboard industry".

But I do have a 30 x 20 image on my wall from a 12mp D700 printed on aluminum that has tons of detail even very close.

It's all needs and wants and they are different for everyone. Some of us would just rather have the money go into other camera body features or improvements.

The problem is that these gear heads set a dangerous precedence by continuously buying the latest spec camera. In return the manufactures produce cameras the are a jack of all trades but master of none. They feed off of amateurs insecurities.

Well I don't know if I'd go that far because I've been bitten by the bug before myself (Nikon D700 to D800 because I remember the "library" shot where you could zoom and zoom and zoom in on that photo). Advertising and marketing is a formidable adversary!

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Todd Jones
Todd Jones Senior Member • Posts: 1,480
Re: You don't like it, so it's wrong

biza43 wrote:

Todd Jones wrote:

GodSpeaks wrote:

Good argument... NOT.

You do not need/want the resolution, so don't buy the camera and ignore all the (over)hype. The hype is also known as marketing.

Just buy/use what YOU need for a camera and don't worry about what others are doing/using. Only someone who is very insecure would be worrying about any of this.

What are you going to do when Nikon and Canon announce their new 60+MP FF DSLR and/or mirrorless camera? How did you react when Fuji announced their 100MP GFX?

Probably same way I did, "boy I wish they would put that money that they put into the megapixels on that sensor and use it for better autofocus, smaller camera size, lighter camera, longer battery life, better viewfinder, etc because I'm not in the billboard industry".

Sony are just doing that. The A7RIV has better AF, longer battery life, better viewfinder, pixel shift. It is small and light. Things are not exclusive, today high res sensors can be coupled with other processing power advances.

But I do have a 30 x 20 image on my wall from a 12mp D700 printed on aluminum that has tons of detail even very close.

Yes. But others may require even more detail, or crop a lot and still preserve detail.

It's all needs and wants and they are different for everyone. Some of us would just rather have the money go into other camera body features or improvements.

And it is going. Look at Fuji's own GFX100 - 100 MP with IBIS. And improving in AF too.

Agree 100% (I don't know really too much about Sony's new or older cameras) but where's that technology in a brand new 16mm Fuji body? Life is short and I don't want to wait for or need to buy new external equipment for that 100mp images. No way

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Todd
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Finatil Junior Member • Posts: 29
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?
2

Companies always start selling resolution when tech comes to a stalemate. This fad is a simple intermission before organic sensors, in-camera ai, etc.. So I just say, don't be a sucker for the stockholders annual sales target.

stevo23 Forum Pro • Posts: 22,784
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?

Finatil wrote:

Companies always start selling resolution when tech comes to a stalemate.

Isn't this a contradiction in terms? Increasing sensor resolution is part of the tech advancements, so by definition, it tech really came to a stalemate, increased resolution couldn't be the driver.

This fad is a simple intermission before organic sensors, in-camera ai, etc.. So I just say, don't be a sucker for the stockholders annual sales target.

Seriously?

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Todd Jones
Todd Jones Senior Member • Posts: 1,480
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?
1

stevo23 wrote:

Todd Jones wrote:

biza43 wrote:

Todd Jones wrote:

biza43 wrote:

Many photographers have clients that require high resolutions. It has been like that for decades, where we had film sizes from 35mm to large format.

For what end result is that mp needed or could they be caught up by by the mp race, please explain or show that need in use? Thanks

I know a couple of professional photogs in Portugal (my country) that need high res for what they do. They typically shoot fashion, corporate, studio, some also landscape. After all, high res today is about the same thing why folks used to shoot MF and LF in the past.

Worldwide, there are many others.

Right, a couple. And worldwide a tiny percentage (that's a guess that I'm pretty comfortable making).

You don't want to pay for the F1 engine in your daily commuter but you want the technology that is learned from F1 like safety, handling, new materials.

But a 4 or 6 cylinder in my car is perfect but I'd LIKE to have the other new technology that I can actually use with my 4 cylinder car. And I'm going to make another comfortable guess, that most photographers don't need it at all even if they think they do.

This is rarely about need, it's mostly about want. I didn't need a 5 litre V8, but I wanted it and I like what it does for me on a daily basis both in it's sound, acceleration and handling, even if I rarely break the speed limit.

But you are also aware of and have accepted the higher cost in fuel, tires, brakes rotors, synthetic oils, insurance etc.

Just like- faster computer, faster and bigger memory cards, inability to wirelessly transfer at reasonable speeds, TIME importing, TIME for Raw processing etc

I could have had plenty of fun with a 2.5 litre Mazda 3.

In the same way, for those who don't need 60Mp, there is still benefit.

Sure, I can crop as good as the next guy.

If we're in the business of telling companies what they shouldn't and shouldn't manufacture based on some loosely defined need and our own perception of what is "ridiculous", we might as well dial the clock back to USSR days and live in the Soviet Union.

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Todd
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James Pilcher Veteran Member • Posts: 9,940
Pushing the boundaries, and Envy
6

I cannot fathom why so many people here are annoyed, some tremendously, that other people have/want more resolution than they have. I can only conclude that these naysayers are masking Envy by belittling those things they do not and cannot have. It becomes the photographic version of class warfare.

I’m glad that a 61Mp FF camera exists, just as I’m glad that a 100Mp Super FF camera exists (I am reluctant to call 33mm x 44mm medium format). I am quite unlikely to own either, but I’m glad they exist. Pushing the boundaries of technology moves the entire photographic world forward.

Jim Pilcher
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Living above life in the Rocky Mountains

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jjz2 Senior Member • Posts: 1,285
Re: Where Is the Camera Industry Headed In this Ridiculous Resolution War?
1

NottsPhoto wrote:

Old Ricoh User wrote:

NottsPhoto wrote:

Old Ricoh User wrote:

Batdude wrote:

Are sensors with less resolution with bigger pixels really gone forever

I more than understand what you are saying. We live in a world with a mostly insecure Millenial generation that aways needs the last and greatest with larger numbers. You don't have to look any farther the current smartphone situation. No way are the masses going to be caught holding last year's phone number. As for the camera gear heads it's an addiction that they can't stop. They never get to know their current camera before trading up. But for people like us there will always lots of discarded older used models. I have friends that search for specific camera models not only because the liked using it but because of cohesion in their work. They grab up Nikon D300, Ricoh GRD1, Leica M9, and numerous others made in the mid 2000s. Use what you like and screw the camera market.

It’s not the millennials buying this stuff, it’s the boomers. The millennials can’t afford it.

why do folks always blame them?

Because that's who I see walking around with the latest gear, that's who the camera store owners are telling me who is buying it, and most of the boomers I see walking around New York City and Philadelphia are either still using film or using 5+ year old gear.

Well it ain’t that way here. It’s hobbiests with dosh, and that’s the boomers. Millennials are too busy paying off their mortgages and saving for their retirement.

No, Millennials are too busy paying off their student loans and saving for a first home. Retirement is nowhere on the radar.

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