Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
OP Jens H New Member • Posts: 8
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
1

dave_bass5 wrote:

Cant agree that an auto feature, or lack of, is a crippling situation. What on earth did people do before Auto ISO?

Sure, I started with film cameras and had to use external light meters - but would I like return to this? No.
Yes I can use M, but it is not comfortable and all I want is to have a camera that allows me to focus strictly on image composition.
So why should I not wish for a better implementation of auto ISO, Canon knows exactly how to do this - see RP - so why not with M cameras?

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OP Jens H New Member • Posts: 8
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
1

RLight wrote:

M.

Set f-stop to f/1.4 and shutter to 1/100 and leave ISO Auto which will let the camera dip into the ISO as needed but hold the 1/100 and f/1.4.

If on the M5, I'd set that to say C1.

On the M50, I'd set it to just M if I'm doing that a lot, which I suspect you are.

Do an M50 btw, much better low light AF (-1EV of the M5 vs -2EV of the M50)

There's always the cliché answer of the next camera will fix this, but I suspect the M5 II may. With any luck, the M5 II gives us IBIS, which combined with that 32, should be pretty juicy, in addition to -2EV (or better) low light and C modes.

Thanks, C1 on M5 is a good option this will allow me to configure the most used set-up.
Let's hope for the long awaited M5 II, Canon has demonstrated with the RP that they know how to implement a good auto ISO adjustabilty

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Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 6,907
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

When I first got my M6, the auto ISO implementation annoyed me, because I had (still have) the 7DII, which has superb auto ISO implementation (two different ways to set minimum shutter speed). What I do is shoot M when I know the ISO will almost certainly be over 100 (indoors, dim light outdoors), and Av or Tv in bright light. It's not as good as a good auto ISO implementation, but it works pretty well. I hope the next M models will have the same implementation as the 7DII.

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rz64 Regular Member • Posts: 154
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

thunder storm wrote:

rz64 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

dave_bass5 wrote:

Cant agree that an auto feature, or lack of, is a crippling situation. What on earth did people do before Auto ISO?

What on earth did people do without digital sensors?

What on earth did people do without autofocus?

What on earth did people do without ettl?

What on earth did people do without electric flashes?

What on earth did people do if they needed a photo without phones?

And hey, if you want a picture, why not draw or paint it yourself? You can't cripple a camera at all as a camera is an automatic feature as a whole.

What on earth did people do without a feather quill pen?

With your logic you'll end up with uncrippled tools producing petroglyphs in stead of jpeg's. It's fine. It's the rock carver, not the carving tool making good images.

Why are you so upset?

Why do you think i am upset? I am not.

But it is better to accept different opinions, that's what this forum is for.

I perfectly accept dave_bass5s opinion, as he did perfectly accept the opinion of the OP about if the auto-ISO implementation of M cameras was crippling or not. We are just debating here, that's all. Don't take it too seriously. Just debating, that's all.

Maybe you are right and I take it too seriously. But in nowaday forums I think it is sometimes better to slow down than it is to heat up. Especially in case of 'thunder' and 'storm'.......

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ZedDoctor
ZedDoctor Contributing Member • Posts: 868
Unpopular Opinion

Jens H wrote:

I would love to add a M50 as my second camera to my Canon RP. The M50 with the fabulous EF-M 32mm would be a dream!

But I hesitate because of the limited adjustability of auto ISO. Just 1/focal length shutter speed is not good enough for me, for instance 1/40 with the 32mm would cause a lot of blurred images with my not so stable hands. I experienced this with the M and the EF-M 22mm, in the end I gave up and sold the combo (for this and other reasons). With the RP I can adjust within auto ISO the minimum shutter speed to faster (or slower) thus generating for instance with a 50mm a minimum shutter speed of 1/100 which is fine for me. Yes I can always monitor the shutter speed and select higher ISO in manual ISO if needed, but to be honest, this is distracting for me; I really prefer to select aperture in "Av" mode let the camera doing anything else and concentrate fully on image composition. Using "Tv" or "P" mode would limit selection of preferred aperture. Using the slow zooms with IS is not a desirable alternative for me. So how do you handle this?

I gave my M5 to my father and bought a Fuji X-T2...

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rz64 Regular Member • Posts: 154
Re: Unpopular Opinion
2

ZedDoctor wrote:

Jens H wrote:

I would love to add a M50 as my second camera to my Canon RP. The M50 with the fabulous EF-M 32mm would be a dream!

But I hesitate because of the limited adjustability of auto ISO. Just 1/focal length shutter speed is not good enough for me, for instance 1/40 with the 32mm would cause a lot of blurred images with my not so stable hands. I experienced this with the M and the EF-M 22mm, in the end I gave up and sold the combo (for this and other reasons). With the RP I can adjust within auto ISO the minimum shutter speed to faster (or slower) thus generating for instance with a 50mm a minimum shutter speed of 1/100 which is fine for me. Yes I can always monitor the shutter speed and select higher ISO in manual ISO if needed, but to be honest, this is distracting for me; I really prefer to select aperture in "Av" mode let the camera doing anything else and concentrate fully on image composition. Using "Tv" or "P" mode would limit selection of preferred aperture. Using the slow zooms with IS is not a desirable alternative for me. So how do you handle this?

I gave my M5 to my father and bought a Fuji X-T2...

Just because of the auto-iso-function?

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ZedDoctor
ZedDoctor Contributing Member • Posts: 868
Re: Unpopular Opinion

rz64 wrote:

ZedDoctor wrote:

Jens H wrote:

I would love to add a M50 as my second camera to my Canon RP. The M50 with the fabulous EF-M 32mm would be a dream!

But I hesitate because of the limited adjustability of auto ISO. Just 1/focal length shutter speed is not good enough for me, for instance 1/40 with the 32mm would cause a lot of blurred images with my not so stable hands. I experienced this with the M and the EF-M 22mm, in the end I gave up and sold the combo (for this and other reasons). With the RP I can adjust within auto ISO the minimum shutter speed to faster (or slower) thus generating for instance with a 50mm a minimum shutter speed of 1/100 which is fine for me. Yes I can always monitor the shutter speed and select higher ISO in manual ISO if needed, but to be honest, this is distracting for me; I really prefer to select aperture in "Av" mode let the camera doing anything else and concentrate fully on image composition. Using "Tv" or "P" mode would limit selection of preferred aperture. Using the slow zooms with IS is not a desirable alternative for me. So how do you handle this?

I gave my M5 to my father and bought a Fuji X-T2...

Just because of the auto-iso-function?

That was one of the main reasons yes.

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Richrf
Richrf Contributing Member • Posts: 623
Re: Unpopular Opinion

ZedDoctor wrote:

I gave my M5 to my father and bought a Fuji X-T2...

Canon takes a big risk when it intentionally cripples cameras to create churn. Some customers may buy up to the RP but others may buy out to Fuji or Sony. As for myself, I just don't feel good about buying crippled cameras. One thing about Sony is that they don't hold back. The a6400 has pretty much everything Sony had to offer except IBIS.

dave_bass5
dave_bass5 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,283
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
2

Jens H wrote:

dave_bass5 wrote:

Cant agree that an auto feature, or lack of, is a crippling situation. What on earth did people do before Auto ISO?

Sure, I started with film cameras and had to use external light meters - but would I like return to this? No.
Yes I can use M, but it is not comfortable and all I want is to have a camera that allows me to focus strictly on image composition.
So why should I not wish for a better implementation of auto ISO, Canon knows exactly how to do this - see RP - so why not with M cameras?

If you want more features pay more money. Dont expect to get every feature you want on an entry level camera. Learn to use what you have and dont expect the camera to do it all for you.

You say you started with film camera and yet here we are with you saying how blurry your photos are due to the camera missing features.. The two dont seem to add up. If you have been doing it for so long, and this was without any of the fancy auto features how on earth did you get by?

I agree its a useful feature, but hardly the end of the world at this price point, just take a look at the 100,000's of excellent shots taken with this camera on line to see how capable it is.

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dave_bass5
dave_bass5 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,283
Re: Unpopular Opinion
4

Richrf wrote:

Canon takes a big risk when it intentionally cripples cameras to create churn.

So the only way the M50 couldn't be classed as crippled is if it had ever feature from every other Canon in it, at the current selling price?

I guess you could say the 5D4 is a crippled 1DxII and that Canon have purposely done this to make money. Crafty buggers aint they lol.

Seriously, what company puts all its features in to their entry level products?

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Anthony Milton Regular Member • Posts: 162
Re: Unpopular Opinion
4

I have had EOS DSLR from 350D to 70D and now a M50.I don't know what AUTO  ISO is, so I have never missed it.

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Richrf
Richrf Contributing Member • Posts: 623
Re: Unpopular Opinion

dave_bass5 wrote:

Seriously, what company puts all its features in to their entry level products?

Sony.

Canon might be well advised to quit building crippled cameras and start building good cameras. Otherwise, upgrading will soon be used in the context of moving from a Canon ILC to a smartphone. Crippled phones = poor user experiences and it doesn't matter how much a customer pays.

Anthony Milton Regular Member • Posts: 162
Re: Unpopular Opinion
3

If you think Canon are crippled cameras why do you bother to write on this forum? Why not stick to forums dealing with Fuji, Sony and even Zenit?

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Richrf
Richrf Contributing Member • Posts: 623
Re: Unpopular Opinion

Anthony Milton wrote:

If you think Canon are crippled cameras why do you bother to write on this forum? Why not stick to forums dealing with Fuji, Sony and even Zenit?

Canon acknowledges they cripple their cameras, e.g. crippling Eye AF on the M50 when filming at 4k. They also acknowledge that the ILC market is collapsing. I am only suggesting that they might want to reconsider their marketing strategies for crippling cameras. Maybe focus on delivering just great cameras.

MyM3 Senior Member • Posts: 1,040
Re: Unpopular Opinion

Yeah, send them a letter.

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CJ Chen New Member • Posts: 8
Re: Unpopular Opinion
1

Anthony Milton wrote:

If you think Canon are crippled cameras why do you bother to write on this forum? Why not stick to forums dealing with Fuji, Sony and even Zenit?

I have been a Canon fan, and I want to know all things about Canon, good or bad. This is not a church. If you don't like what is preached, go to the one you like most.

CJ Chen New Member • Posts: 8
Re: Unpopular Opinion

dave_bass5 wrote:

Richrf wrote:

Canon takes a big risk when it intentionally cripples cameras to create churn.

So the only way the M50 couldn't be classed as crippled is if it had ever feature from every other Canon in it, at the current selling price?

I guess you could say the 5D4 is a crippled 1DxII and that Canon have purposely done this to make money. Crafty buggers aint they lol.

Seriously, what company puts all its features in to their entry level products?

There is a difference between not offering all features and crippling some available features for marketing purposes.

If a feature takes extra work to offer, then of course the company may decide not to offer to keep the price point low.  If a feature is available but the company takes extra effort to cripple it in order to make extra profits from higher-end model, the company is risking losing customer loyalty or worse.

Boeing crippled MCAS sensor warning system in 737 MAX in order to make it a upgrade option.  See what is happening to that decision.

Richrf
Richrf Contributing Member • Posts: 623
Re: Unpopular Opinion
1

CJ Chen wrote:

dave_bass5 wrote:

Richrf wrote:

Canon takes a big risk when it intentionally cripples cameras to create churn.

So the only way the M50 couldn't be classed as crippled is if it had ever feature from every other Canon in it, at the current selling price?

I guess you could say the 5D4 is a crippled 1DxII and that Canon have purposely done this to make money. Crafty buggers aint they lol.

Seriously, what company puts all its features in to their entry level products?

There is a difference between not offering all features and crippling some available features for marketing purposes.

If a feature takes extra work to offer, then of course the company may decide not to offer to keep the price point low. If a feature is available but the company takes extra effort to cripple it in order to make extra profits from higher-end model, the company is risking losing customer loyalty or worse.

Boeing crippled MCAS sensor warning system in 737 MAX in order to make it a upgrade option. See what is happening to that decision.

Let me explain.

Canon has no problem trumpeting 4k on their M50. Ditto DPAF. What they omit, in a most cynical manner, is that they crippled DPAF when in 4K. Clever or duplicitous marketing? Let potential buyers judge.

panamforeman
panamforeman Senior Member • Posts: 1,273
Re: Unpopular Opinion

MyM3 wrote:

Yeah, send them a letter.

YES! That's the only way you will get their attention. They do pay attention to dissatisfied customer's letters.....very little to camera forums.

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geru Contributing Member • Posts: 781
Re: Unpopular Opinion

I'm using Auto ISO for the first time ever although I had it on other cameras I just never really thought using that particular option would be beneficial.

I shoot in Manual most of the time and decided to give it a try on the M-50 I wasn't pleased to have only the one adjustment but I set it anyway.

I've not had any problem keeping the shutter speed at a minimum speed of twice the focal length (or there about). I've used the Auto ISO for nearly 2 months.

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