Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

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Jens H New Member • Posts: 8
Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

I would love to add a M50 as my second camera to my Canon RP. The M50 with the fabulous EF-M 32mm would be a dream!

But I hesitate because of the limited adjustability of auto ISO. Just 1/focal length shutter speed is not good enough for me, for instance 1/40 with the 32mm would cause a lot of blurred images with my not so stable hands. I experienced this with the M and the EF-M 22mm, in the end I gave up and sold the combo (for this and other reasons). With the RP I can adjust within auto ISO the minimum shutter speed to faster (or slower) thus generating for instance with a 50mm a minimum shutter speed of 1/100 which is fine for me. Yes I can always monitor the shutter speed and select higher ISO in manual ISO if needed, but to be honest, this is distracting for me; I really prefer to select aperture in "Av" mode let the camera doing anything else and concentrate fully on image composition. Using "Tv" or "P" mode would limit selection of preferred aperture. Using the slow zooms with IS is not a desirable alternative for me. So how do you handle this?

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Michal Minich
Michal Minich Forum Member • Posts: 68
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

I found inability to set minimum shutter speed in Av or do speed adjustments very limiting an annoying. I already miss a couple of shots because of it. This is my Top 1 requirement for my camera upgrade. I really hope M5/6 Mark II will have it.

I always shoot in Av, Tv or M modes, always in auto ISO (set to 3200 or 6400). I find the ISO performance good up to 3200.

When shooting my kid, I need usually need to use 1/200 or shorter to avoid blurry images. Very often this is not possible in Av mode - my favorite. I have to switch then to M mode. Then set the time manually. This results in sub-optimal results - either I set the time too short and get higher-ISO than necessary, or too long, and I get overexposed image. Also it takes additional time to change the modes and T value. Which is even worsened when I have to shoot between sunlight and shadow.

This one of main limitations which prevents me to take shots I want. The other is inability to set shutter priority over focus priority; also 'shutter lag' in servo-AF for first shot.

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 2,566
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
1

Lots of light: Av mode + ISO fixed at 100

Enough light, but on the lower side: Av mode + fixed ISO at 200

Low light without speedlights: M mode + auto ISO

With changing ISO between 100 and 200 you can avoid a lot of changing between Av and M.

It is definitely not ideal.  All i want is in Av mode a minimum shutterspeed on a dial. For my type of shooting a shutterspeed is never to short other than not gathering enough light.

Usually folks are shouting a lot of hallelujah about the handling of Canon cameras. Not being able to set a minimum shutterspeed is also handling...............  At the time this is available in the 80D and the 7DmkII........  It is only software, it doesn't weight to much to implement in a M camera......

The logic here?  It is Canon.

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OP Jens H New Member • Posts: 8
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

Michal Minich wrote:

I found inability to set minimum shutter speed in Av or do speed adjustments very limiting an annoying. I already miss a couple of shots because of it. This is my Top 1 requirement for my camera upgrade. I really hope M5/6 Mark II will have it.

I always shoot in Av, Tv or M modes, always in auto ISO (set to 3200 or 6400). I find the ISO performance good up to 3200.

When shooting my kid, I need usually need to use 1/200 or shorter to avoid blurry images. Very often this is not possible in Av mode - my favorite. I have to switch then to M mode. Then set the time manually. This results in sub-optimal results - either I set the time too short and get higher-ISO than necessary, or too long, and I get overexposed image. Also it takes additional time to change the modes and T value. Which is even worsened when I have to shoot between sunlight and shadow.

This one of main limitations which prevents me to take shots I want. The other is inability to set shutter priority over focus priority; also 'shutter lag' in servo-AF for first shot.

Thanks! I agree, I'm a stills shooter but the Auto ISO limitation is also crippling action shootings! You could use Tv mode of course, but then you cannot use the preferred aperture.
With only one real dial available I find the M mode not comfortable at all...

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OP Jens H New Member • Posts: 8
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
2

thunder storm wrote:

Lots of light: Av mode + ISO fixed at 100

Enough light, but on the lower side: Av mode + fixed ISO at 200

Low light without speedlights: M mode + auto ISO

With changing ISO between 100 and 200 you can avoid a lot of changing between Av and M.

It is definitely not ideal. All i want is in Av mode a minimum shutterspeed on a dial. For my type of shooting a shutterspeed is never to short other than not gathering enough light.

Usually folks are shouting a lot of hallelujah about the handling of Canon cameras. Not being able to set a minimum shutterspeed is also handling............... At the time this is available in the 80D and the 7DmkII........ It is only software, it doesn't weight to much to implement in a M camera......

The logic here? It is Canon.

Thanks, these are helpful suggestions! Only the M mode is something which I find not comfortable to use on a M50.
I agree, this is affecting the usability of the M cameras and it is nothing Canon should be proud of...

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dave_bass5
dave_bass5 Veteran Member • Posts: 7,281
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
6

Cant agree that an auto feature, or lack of, is a crippling situation. What on earth did people do before Auto ISO?

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Dareshooter Veteran Member • Posts: 4,109
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
5

dave_bass5 wrote:

Cant agree that an auto feature, or lack of, is a crippling situation. What on earth did people do before Auto ISO?

+1

Probably learned how to use their cameras and paid attention to the viewfinder readout.

Myrgjorf Regular Member • Posts: 383
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
2

Jens H wrote:

I would love to add a M50 as my second camera to my Canon RP. The M50 with the fabulous EF-M 32mm would be a dream!

But I hesitate because of the limited adjustability of auto ISO. Just 1/focal length shutter speed is not good enough for me, for instance 1/40 with the 32mm would cause a lot of blurred images with my not so stable hands. I experienced this with the M and the EF-M 22mm, in the end I gave up and sold the combo (for this and other reasons). With the RP I can adjust within auto ISO the minimum shutter speed to faster (or slower) thus generating for instance with a 50mm a minimum shutter speed of 1/100 which is fine for me. Yes I can always monitor the shutter speed and select higher ISO in manual ISO if needed, but to be honest, this is distracting for me; I really prefer to select aperture in "Av" mode let the camera doing anything else and concentrate fully on image composition. Using "Tv" or "P" mode would limit selection of preferred aperture. Using the slow zooms with IS is not a desirable alternative for me. So how do you handle this?

Just learn to use Manual mode + auto ISO + exposure compensation when needed. That is much more flexible and you won't be limited by all those auto limits that will get in your way quite often. E.g. when you want to have smooth water from a nice little waterfall at 1/8 or 1/4 handheld. Or 10s at a tripod.

You may want to use AV mode with fixed ISO in rare situations.

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casey1823 Contributing Member • Posts: 517
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
2

Myrgjorf wrote:

Jens H wrote:

I would love to add a M50 as my second camera to my Canon RP. The M50 with the fabulous EF-M 32mm would be a dream!

But I hesitate because of the limited adjustability of auto ISO. Just 1/focal length shutter speed is not good enough for me, for instance 1/40 with the 32mm would cause a lot of blurred images with my not so stable hands. I experienced this with the M and the EF-M 22mm, in the end I gave up and sold the combo (for this and other reasons). With the RP I can adjust within auto ISO the minimum shutter speed to faster (or slower) thus generating for instance with a 50mm a minimum shutter speed of 1/100 which is fine for me. Yes I can always monitor the shutter speed and select higher ISO in manual ISO if needed, but to be honest, this is distracting for me; I really prefer to select aperture in "Av" mode let the camera doing anything else and concentrate fully on image composition. Using "Tv" or "P" mode would limit selection of preferred aperture. Using the slow zooms with IS is not a desirable alternative for me. So how do you handle this?

Just learn to use Manual mode + auto ISO + exposure compensation when needed. That is much more flexible and you won't be limited by all those auto limits that will get in your way quite often. E.g. when you want to have smooth water from a nice little waterfall at 1/8 or 1/4 handheld. Or 10s at a tripod.

You may want to use AV mode with fixed ISO in rare situations.

I totally agree! Why leave the A or S up to the camera. Just use  M and auto ISO. If you need /100 sec just set it, let the camera determine the expose using auto ISO. It's the only way I shoot, use EC dial when needed. Once you start getting used to this you'll wonder why did I ever let my camera choose A or S.

casey

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 2,566
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

casey1823 wrote:

Myrgjorf wrote:

Jens H wrote:

I would love to add a M50 as my second camera to my Canon RP. The M50 with the fabulous EF-M 32mm would be a dream!

But I hesitate because of the limited adjustability of auto ISO. Just 1/focal length shutter speed is not good enough for me, for instance 1/40 with the 32mm would cause a lot of blurred images with my not so stable hands. I experienced this with the M and the EF-M 22mm, in the end I gave up and sold the combo (for this and other reasons). With the RP I can adjust within auto ISO the minimum shutter speed to faster (or slower) thus generating for instance with a 50mm a minimum shutter speed of 1/100 which is fine for me. Yes I can always monitor the shutter speed and select higher ISO in manual ISO if needed, but to be honest, this is distracting for me; I really prefer to select aperture in "Av" mode let the camera doing anything else and concentrate fully on image composition. Using "Tv" or "P" mode would limit selection of preferred aperture. Using the slow zooms with IS is not a desirable alternative for me. So how do you handle this?

Just learn to use Manual mode + auto ISO + exposure compensation when needed. That is much more flexible and you won't be limited by all those auto limits that will get in your way quite often. E.g. when you want to have smooth water from a nice little waterfall at 1/8 or 1/4 handheld. Or 10s at a tripod.

You may want to use AV mode with fixed ISO in rare situations.

I totally agree! Why leave the A or S up to the camera. Just use M and auto ISO.

Sometimes there is no time/attention to handle these tasks next to other tasks.

If you need /100 sec just set it, let the camera determine the expose using auto ISO.

The problem is the camera can't go lower than ISO 100, so you have to switch to Av if you don't have the time to babysit the shutter speed.

It's the only way I shoot, use EC dial when needed. Once you start getting used to this you'll wonder why did I ever let my camera choose A or S.

There are types of shooting baby sitting the shutter speed is one task at the time to much.

casey

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 2,566
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
1

dave_bass5 wrote:

Cant agree that an auto feature, or lack of, is a crippling situation. What on earth did people do before Auto ISO?

What on earth did people do without digital sensors?

What on earth did people do without autofocus?

What on earth did people do without ettl?

What on earth did people do without electric flashes?

What on earth did people do if they  needed a photo without phones?

And hey, if you want a picture, why not draw or paint it yourself? You can't cripple a camera at all as a camera is an automatic feature as a whole.

What on earth did people do without a feather quill pen?

With your logic you'll end up with uncrippled tools producing petroglyphs in stead of jpeg's.  It's fine. It's the rock carver, not the carving tool making good images.

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rz64 Regular Member • Posts: 152
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
1

thunder storm wrote:

dave_bass5 wrote:

Cant agree that an auto feature, or lack of, is a crippling situation. What on earth did people do before Auto ISO?

What on earth did people do without digital sensors?

What on earth did people do without autofocus?

What on earth did people do without ettl?

What on earth did people do without electric flashes?

What on earth did people do if they needed a photo without phones?

And hey, if you want a picture, why not draw or paint it yourself? You can't cripple a camera at all as a camera is an automatic feature as a whole.

What on earth did people do without a feather quill pen?

With your logic you'll end up with uncrippled tools producing petroglyphs in stead of jpeg's. It's fine. It's the rock carver, not the carving tool making good images.

Why are you so upset? I am also of the opinion that the auto-iso-function is a thing that could be improved, but I would not regard it as a weak point.

I am very happy with my M6, I take it as it is and I try (for me) to make the best out of it and with it.

Of course it is 'typical Canon': Make mirrorless good, but not too good. Even my previous compact camera (Nikon P7100) had an auto-iso-function where it was possible to define a minimum shutter speed.

But it is better to accept different opinions, that's what this forum is for.

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 2,566
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

rz64 wrote:

thunder storm wrote:

dave_bass5 wrote:

Cant agree that an auto feature, or lack of, is a crippling situation. What on earth did people do before Auto ISO?

What on earth did people do without digital sensors?

What on earth did people do without autofocus?

What on earth did people do without ettl?

What on earth did people do without electric flashes?

What on earth did people do if they needed a photo without phones?

And hey, if you want a picture, why not draw or paint it yourself? You can't cripple a camera at all as a camera is an automatic feature as a whole.

What on earth did people do without a feather quill pen?

With your logic you'll end up with uncrippled tools producing petroglyphs in stead of jpeg's. It's fine. It's the rock carver, not the carving tool making good images.

Why are you so upset?

Why do you think i am upset? I am not.

But it is better to accept different opinions, that's what this forum is for.

I perfectly accept dave_bass5s opinion, as he did perfectly accept the opinion of the OP about if the auto-ISO implementation of M cameras was crippling or not. We are just debating here, that's all. Don't take it too seriously.  Just debating, that's all.

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Paul Stricklin Senior Member • Posts: 1,089
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

We used the same camera body for years and trained our bodies to auto manipulate the hardware without looking at little needles and took grouped shots.  Going digital for auto focus came at a price in speed of acquiring the shot in poor conditions.  But what can one do when old eyes can't keep a good low light focus?  I use the M5 but do not like it's slow and poor low light focus. 2 seconds is barely acceptable in a club environment, 5 seconds is a pain.

Paul Stricklin

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dpeete Regular Member • Posts: 409
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
1

The M6 has dual control dials, so it is much easier to use M mode. That might explain some of the differences in opinion with the M50 users.

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 2,566
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

Paul Stricklin wrote:

We used the same camera body for years and trained our bodies to auto manipulate the hardware without looking at little needles and took grouped shots.

Maybe the bar wasn't set for 24Mp those days. Today there isn't a big margin.

Going digital for auto focus came at a price in speed of acquiring the shot in poor conditions. But what can one do when old eyes can't keep a good low light focus?

I use the M5 but do not like it's slow and poor low light focus. 2 seconds is barely acceptable in a club environment, 5 seconds is a pain.

The best you can do is use bright lenses with USM (Canon) / HSM (Sigma), single spot AF, and back button focus. Avoid dark zooms and lenses with stm.

Paul Stricklin

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RLight Senior Member • Posts: 1,352
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
2

Jens H wrote:

I would love to add a M50 as my second camera to my Canon RP. The M50 with the fabulous EF-M 32mm would be a dream!

But I hesitate because of the limited adjustability of auto ISO. Just 1/focal length shutter speed is not good enough for me, for instance 1/40 with the 32mm would cause a lot of blurred images with my not so stable hands. I experienced this with the M and the EF-M 22mm, in the end I gave up and sold the combo (for this and other reasons). With the RP I can adjust within auto ISO the minimum shutter speed to faster (or slower) thus generating for instance with a 50mm a minimum shutter speed of 1/100 which is fine for me. Yes I can always monitor the shutter speed and select higher ISO in manual ISO if needed, but to be honest, this is distracting for me; I really prefer to select aperture in "Av" mode let the camera doing anything else and concentrate fully on image composition. Using "Tv" or "P" mode would limit selection of preferred aperture. Using the slow zooms with IS is not a desirable alternative for me. So how do you handle this?

M.

Set f-stop to f/1.4 and shutter to 1/100 and leave ISO Auto which will let the camera dip into the ISO as needed but hold the 1/100 and f/1.4.

If on the M5, I'd set that to say C1.

On the M50, I'd set it to just M if I'm doing that a lot, which I suspect you are.

Do an M50 btw, much better low light AF (-1EV of the M5 vs -2EV of the M50)

There's always the cliché answer of the next camera will fix this, but I suspect the M5 II may. With any luck, the M5 II gives us IBIS, which combined with that 32, should be pretty juicy, in addition to -2EV (or better) low light and C modes.

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juanmaasecas Contributing Member • Posts: 656
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
2

No matter the workarounds that people can have, this auto iso minimum shutter speed is such a simple thing that can easily be programmed in the firmware that every camera should have it. It's one of the reasons I upgraded from my a7 to my a7r2 instead of the a72.

The workaround in the m50 of course is using M with low light (or even sometimes shutter priority for portraits as you know that the aperture will be at its brightest and the iso won't go that crazy and the shutter speed is determined by the focal length for tele, of by how fast the person is moving for wides)

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thunder storm Senior Member • Posts: 2,566
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??

dpeete wrote:

The M6 has dual control dials, so it is much easier to use M mode. That might explain some of the differences in opinion with the M50 users.

I have that too on my 70D, but it doesn't change my opinion about this.

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casey1823 Contributing Member • Posts: 517
Re: Auto ISO with the M5/M50 - how are you coping with the limited adjustability??
1

thunder storm wrote:

dpeete wrote:

The M6 has dual control dials, so it is much easier to use M mode. That might explain some of the differences in opinion with the M50 users.

I have that too on my 70D, but it doesn't change my opinion about this.

I'm not upset with the discussion either. People are looking to set it, and forget it, camera settings.

If you don't want to take a second to adjust the camera accordingly to the condition then why don't you just set the camera to auto?

I use M with auto ISO 90% of the time.

The other 10%? I use A mode. When? Outside in good light. With good light, set to A  the camera will normally able to produce good results. (I do use EC)

I think "Thunder storm" point is if you want to take better pictures then learn how to use the camera. Before even taking a picture, think about what type of light your working with.

Do I need to shoot in M or A? Once you start thinking about this and actually changing the camera to the conditions it will become second nature, the more you do this the faster you'll get.

It's ok if you don't want to shoot like this, this is just my method. It works great for me.

casey

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