Olympus is doing a great branding job.

I see many EM5 III posts going up and I find it interesting. EVERYBODY knows what we talking about wether its an OMD or a PEN, a EPL.... or an EM....

Contrary Panasonic made the classic mistake other manufacturers did calling the same thing different "names" in different markets....

One of the benefits of a clear branding strategy is it gives strength to the individual product lines and in effect an image of global weight/acceptance/success in the market.

Example I read some hope the EM5 III would became a G80 or is it a G81...you know the one that looks like a GH4 with a grip. BUT NO Olympus seem to stick with the small form factor and the ability to add options......this has always been a strength of the EM5 line.

Well done Olympus, keep up the good work.

everybody knows about a camera that doesn't exist?

Wu Jiaqiu wrote:

everybody knows about a camera that doesn't exist?

Exactly, Gregg. A point I also made in another thread ...

Geez there's some BS spruiked on this forum.

I like Olympus products too, but:

1) Sneering at other OEMs, in this case Panasonic, doesn't sit well with me

2) Branding is much more than product naming

3) The mirrorless market is very turbulent at the moment, so it's no good resting on historic product lines

4) The "small, cheap and innovative" box is held by phone cameras at present

So, what in your view does the Olympus brand tell me about what an Olympus camera is and can do that is different from the 6 other mirrorless brands and 4 mounts?  Please don't bash the others again.

In my view, they have an excellent reputation for firmware updates; they have a build quality problem, maybe solved; they have excellent after sales service in Europe; MFT OEMs have a good range of reasonably affordable lenses; Olympus are working on innovative capture and processing of RAWs, but keeping processing in camera is always going to add cost and weight; they are slipping for the most demanding landscape shots but weight and weather sealing are good.  I happen to like Olympus ergonomics and design choices.

It's not clear who their target market segments are - well-off hobbyists, Pro sports shooters, hikers and holiday-makers?

I note that a lot of Sony FF owners see MFT as an excellent second camera, maybe the new EM1.2 firmware will address the perception of an AF gap.

Andrew

Panasonic's own branding is inferior because it is wishy-washy and inconsistent (though Olympus could simplify how they name their cameras)

Only the GH line is good because it has been Rock solid and consistent for a decade. You know what to expect from that line.

The rest? A garbled mess. I can sort of follow it because I like m43 and I know when Panasonic made odd product line u-turns here and there. But I pity anyone trying to get into m43 and trying to figure out how Panasonic camera models differ from another.

ahaslett wrote:

I like Olympus products too, but:

1) Sneering at other OEMs, in this case Panasonic, doesn't sit well with me

You way too sensitive friend. The Panasonic model line up is a mess, it is really difficult for even those like myself who know these two brands. Like someone else stated its only the GH series that were consistent and the buyer knows what to expect. Now we can put our heads in the sand and see nothing, that's OK. In fact in a critical market it's the more important to have clear product segmentation.

2) Branding is much more than product naming

Yes and No - example, why would you select diet coke?

3) The mirrorless market is very turbulent at the moment, so it's no good resting on historic product lines

4) The "small, cheap and innovative" box is held by phone cameras at present

So, what in your view does the Olympus brand tell me about what an Olympus camera is and can do that is different from the 6 other mirrorless brands and 4 mounts? Please don't bash the others again.

So in my view? Simple:

- Olympus is a full bred camera manufacturer - this is crystal clear in their product line up, their history and their market segmentation.

- Panasonic manufactures TV.s, Fridges, Stoves, Hi-F's (Stereo) video recorders and cameras.

For the strengths and product segmentation go have a look at the past three years product catalogues between these two brands and tell me who is the most consistent & clear....

In my view, they have an excellent reputation for firmware updates; they have a build quality problem, maybe solved; they have excellent after sales service in Europe; MFT OEMs have a good range of reasonably affordable lenses; Olympus are working on innovative capture and processing of RAWs, but keeping processing in camera is always going to add cost and weight; they are slipping for the most demanding landscape shots but weight and weather sealing are good. I happen to like Olympus ergonomics and design choices.

No issues....like you I am an Oly fan boy....

It's not clear who their target market segments are - well-off hobbyists, Pro sports shooters, hikers and holiday-makers?

Wow, not difficult to spot the target markets for both brands.

I note that a lot of Sony FF owners see MFT as an excellent second camera, maybe the new EM1.2 firmware will address the perception of an AF gap.

I know this....personally I find this a little arrogant and ignorant. My own son tried to tell me looking at a mix of Canon 6D, EM1.2 and A7 III images (which I also studied) that he could "clearly" see the EM1 was not up there with the best. I love my son so I told him so.....

Andrew

Andrew you sound like a really good guy.....don't fight with another Oly fan, we need each other on this forum. You welcome to join me fighting those asking stupid questions, like should M43 cameras cost less than FF cameras....

VideoPic wrote:

ahaslett wrote:

I like Olympus products too, but:

1) Sneering at other OEMs, in this case Panasonic, doesn't sit well with me

You way too sensitive friend. The Panasonic model line up is a mess, it is really difficult for even those like myself who know these two brands. Like someone else stated its only the GH series that were consistent and the buyer knows what to expect. Now we can put our heads in the sand and see nothing, that's OK. In fact in a critical market it's the more important to have clear product segmentation.

Is it really a mess, though?

G = DSLR-styled cameras

GH = DSLR-styled cameras with an emphasis on video

GX = Rangefinder-styled cameras

Single digit numbers are targeted at high-end buyers, two digit numbers are midrange, then three digit numbers are targeted at entry-level buyers.

This is basically exactly the same naming strange that Canon, Nikon, and Fuji all use. You can say it confuses you, but it's really very simple. It's actually the most standard naming convention among Japanese camera companies.

2) Branding is much more than product naming

Yes and No - example, why would you select diet coke?

3) The mirrorless market is very turbulent at the moment, so it's no good resting on historic product lines

4) The "small, cheap and innovative" box is held by phone cameras at present

So, what in your view does the Olympus brand tell me about what an Olympus camera is and can do that is different from the 6 other mirrorless brands and 4 mounts? Please don't bash the others again.

So in my view? Simple:

- Olympus is a full bred camera manufacturer - this is crystal clear in their product line up, their history and their market segmentation.

- Panasonic manufactures TV.s, Fridges, Stoves, Hi-F's (Stereo) video recorders and cameras.

For the strengths and product segmentation go have a look at the past three years product catalogues between these two brands and tell me who is the most consistent & clear....

In my view, they have an excellent reputation for firmware updates; they have a build quality problem, maybe solved; they have excellent after sales service in Europe; MFT OEMs have a good range of reasonably affordable lenses; Olympus are working on innovative capture and processing of RAWs, but keeping processing in camera is always going to add cost and weight; they are slipping for the most demanding landscape shots but weight and weather sealing are good. I happen to like Olympus ergonomics and design choices.

No issues....like you I am an Oly fan boy....

It's not clear who their target market segments are - well-off hobbyists, Pro sports shooters, hikers and holiday-makers?

Wow, not difficult to spot the target markets for both brands.

I note that a lot of Sony FF owners see MFT as an excellent second camera, maybe the new EM1.2 firmware will address the perception of an AF gap.

I know this....personally I find this a little arrogant and ignorant. My own son tried to tell me looking at a mix of Canon 6D, EM1.2 and A7 III images (which I also studied) that he could "clearly" see the EM1 was not up there with the best. I love my son so I told him so.....

Andrew

Andrew you sound like a really good guy.....don't fight with another Oly fan, we need each other on this forum. You welcome to join me fighting those asking stupid questions, like should M43 cameras cost less than FF cameras....

A wonderful pair of cameras, but the GM1 is a bit fiddly to operate in strong light.

Andrew

ahaslett wrote:

I like Olympus products too, but:

1) Sneering at other OEMs, in this case Panasonic, doesn't sit well with me

2) Branding is much more than product naming

3) The mirrorless market is very turbulent at the moment, so it's no good resting on historic product lines

4) The "small, cheap and innovative" box is held by phone cameras at present

So, what in your view does the Olympus brand tell me about what an Olympus camera is and can do that is different from the 6 other mirrorless brands and 4 mounts? Please don't bash the others again.

In my view, they have an excellent reputation for firmware updates; they have a build quality problem, maybe solved; they have excellent after sales service in Europe; MFT OEMs have a good range of reasonably affordable lenses; Olympus are working on innovative capture and processing of RAWs, but keeping processing in camera is always going to add cost and weight; they are slipping for the most demanding landscape shots but weight and weather sealing are good. I happen to like Olympus ergonomics and design choices.

It's not clear who their target market segments are - well-off hobbyists, Pro sports shooters, hikers and holiday-makers?

I note that a lot of Sony FF owners see MFT as an excellent second camera, maybe the new EM1.2 firmware will address the perception of an AF gap.

Andrew

Every point of yours is spot-on. Oly's "branding" or whatever doesn't impress me. Especially since I have been shooting Oly for 9 years now and have yet to see another Oly shooter at work or play. And, the # of camera stores carrying the line seems to decrease each year. It's a niche of excellent products, but the niche is getting smaller and smaller.

ahaslett wrote:

I like Olympus products too, but:

1) Sneering at other OEMs, in this case Panasonic, doesn't sit well with me

2) Branding is much more than product naming

3) The mirrorless market is very turbulent at the moment, so it's no good resting on historic product lines

4) The "small, cheap and innovative" box is held by phone cameras at present

So, what in your view does the Olympus brand tell me about what an Olympus camera is and can do that is different from the 6 other mirrorless brands and 4 mounts? Please don't bash the others again.

In my view, they have an excellent reputation for firmware updates; they have a build quality problem, maybe solved; they have excellent after sales service in Europe; MFT OEMs have a good range of reasonably affordable lenses; Olympus are working on innovative capture and processing of RAWs, but keeping processing in camera is always going to add cost and weight; they are slipping for the most demanding landscape shots but weight and weather sealing are good. I happen to like Olympus ergonomics and design choices.

It's not clear who their target market segments are - well-off hobbyists, Pro sports shooters, hikers and holiday-makers?

I seem to remember that in a recent financial report Olympus stated that the Imaging Division (cameras), going forward, would concentrate on "High Margin, Specialty " market segments.  This was the before the announcement of the E-M1X, which seems to fit that stated target market.

I note that a lot of Sony FF owners see MFT as an excellent second camera, maybe the new EM1.2 firmware will address the perception of an AF gap.

Andrew

I agree and like the fact that the Olympus product lines are straightforward and consistent.  I think that might have played a part in my choosing of Olympus when moving to Mirrorless.   Some of the other manufacturers product lines were confusing and inconsistent.  I think a struck a few off of my list due to the lack of clarity.

VideoPic wrote:

I see many EM5 III posts going up and I find it interesting. EVERYBODY knows what we talking about wether its an OMD or a PEN, a EPL.... or an EM....

Contrary Panasonic made the classic mistake other manufacturers did calling the same thing different "names" in different markets....

Yes and no. Yes, Panasonic uses wildly different names in different locals, and it would be helpful if they picked one base name and used a suffix. Or even failing that used a consistent naming scheme (i.e. G8<x> where <x> = 0 for European mode, 1 for UK model, 5 for USA/rest of the world).

But outside of poorly choosing the names, Panasonic does at least do customization for different locales. In particular, until this year, Panasonic could not add video support of more than 30 minutes to their cameras without classifying them as video cameras when sold in Europe (by classifying them as video cameras, Panasonic would be subjecting them to a higher import tariff, making the cameras more expensive). So they created different models. In the USA version where there isn't a law for video times, the video is unlimited. But the video is limited to 30 minutes in the European model.

In addition there is another video customization that is important. In Europe the A/C currents cycle at 50 cycles/second, while in the USA/Japan it cycles at 60 cycles/second. So the European models for the non-high end cameras will give you 25 and 50 fps, while the USA/Japan models will give you 30 and 60 fps. This is important if your scene is lit with room lights (mostly florescent lights, but I imagine any A/C powered light will do this to a lesser extent), and the light level will go up/down during the 50 or 60 cycles/second.

Olympus on the other hand doesn't have country specific models. So all of their cameras are limited to 30 minute videos even if you bought the camera in a region that did not have the limit. And the E-m5 mark II does not appear to have settings for 25 and 50 fps.

Then you get into the differences between E-m<x> and Pen. Before the E-m10 was announced, the E-m5 and E-m1 models were both splash proof and had viewfinders. And the Pen cameras were not splash proof and had optional viewfinders. Generally, the Pens used the same battery.

And then there is the E-m1x which probably should have been called the E-m2 or something similar, since it is no longer in the mold of the E-m1 cameras due to the integrated battery grip.

Then the E-m10 came along, and it was named E-m10 because it had a viewfinder (but it used the earlier BLS battery). The E-P5 was announced and it used the BLN battery instead of the BLS battery. Finally, the Pen-F came along and it had a viewfinder and used the BLN battery. So by rights, it should have been an OM-D, but it was given the Pen name. And then there is the abomination called the E-m10 mark III, which 'simplifies' things, removing features (or hiding them) that were useful. So Olympus doesn't get a gold star due to clarity of its two lines either.

gary0319 wrote:

ahaslett wrote:

I like Olympus products too, but:

1) Sneering at other OEMs, in this case Panasonic, doesn't sit well with me

2) Branding is much more than product naming

3) The mirrorless market is very turbulent at the moment, so it's no good resting on historic product lines

4) The "small, cheap and innovative" box is held by phone cameras at present

So, what in your view does the Olympus brand tell me about what an Olympus camera is and can do that is different from the 6 other mirrorless brands and 4 mounts? Please don't bash the others again.

In my view, they have an excellent reputation for firmware updates; they have a build quality problem, maybe solved; they have excellent after sales service in Europe; MFT OEMs have a good range of reasonably affordable lenses; Olympus are working on innovative capture and processing of RAWs, but keeping processing in camera is always going to add cost and weight; they are slipping for the most demanding landscape shots but weight and weather sealing are good. I happen to like Olympus ergonomics and design choices.

It's not clear who their target market segments are - well-off hobbyists, Pro sports shooters, hikers and holiday-makers?

I seem to remember that in a recent financial report Olympus stated that the Imaging Division (cameras), going forward, would concentrate on "High Margin, Specialty " market segments. This was the before the announcement of the E-M1X, which seems to fit that stated target market.

I note that a lot of Sony FF owners see MFT as an excellent second camera, maybe the new EM1.2 firmware will address the perception of an AF gap.

Andrew

High margin specialty means low volumes, exquisite segment targeting and a platform approach to technology.  Branding is important to both margins and product communication.

I agree that the EM1X fits that.  It also looks like a tryout for some interesting technologies.  Not my camera, but I can always hope for the next one.

Andrew

R Liewenberger wrote:

Michael Meissner wrote:

In addition there is another video customization that is important. In Europe the A/C currents cycle at 50 cycles/second, while in the USA/Japan it cycles at 60 cycles/second. So the European models for the non-high end cameras will give you 25 and 50 fps, while the USA/Japan models will give you 30 and 60 fps.

Actually most of the world uses 50 Hertz as the frequency now. The only exceptions are the North American continent and some countries in Middle and South America.

Japan is still a mix at the moment, using both 50 as well as 60 Hertz.

Red and green = 60 Hz, blue and brown = 50 Hz:

Ok, I didn't know that, but I thought Japan was still 60 Hz (and since cameras are designed in Japan....).

But it would be nice if camera vendors actually gave us 24, 25, 30 fps (and the higher multiples where possible) in all bodies, and not just the high end video bodies.  Just because I bought a camera in the USA, it does not mean I have to record video only in the USA.

bobn2 wrote:

What if when it eventually comes it's called the E-M3?

Or should that be OM-D E-M3? Or as some here would like to say, OM-D3. It seems that a lot of people can't get their heads around whether these cameras should be 'OM-D' or E-M'.

Or maybe E-M5X.

My dear friend Bob.......are you OK? Your camera gear all OK? Are you serious or do you wish to discuss the fact that its not sensor size but pixel size that makes the real difference....

That said...lets keep it simple and call it the Best Mirrorless Camera (A++) on the market and we will all be HAPPY.

All said, I am honored with you taking the time to reply to my humble Oly fan boys chat......

Have fun friend, you the best....