Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
jonrobertp Forum Pro • Posts: 12,880
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

iPhone 11 Max , with better cameras than xs...is it worth staying with iPhone for easy use ? Never had android; and am a bit leery of the issues ; though I know the camera on P30 pro is very appealing.

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Gal Root
Gal Root Contributing Member • Posts: 625
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max
1

jonrobertp wrote:

iPhone 11 Max , with better cameras than xs...is it worth staying with iPhone for easy use ? Never had android; and am a bit leery of the issues ; though I know the camera on P30 pro is very appealing.

Which issues..?
P30 is super powerful (far more than any iPhone) , but the Auto mode of the iPhone is superior IMO.  It's not that the quality on the iPhone is better, but the Auto is more consistent with the results.

If you like anything more than point&shoot, Android is more appealing IMO.

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JT26 Veteran Member • Posts: 3,671
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

I agree with this. If you want to spend more time with editing the P30 is best. If just a snap and you want something that looks great just on the phone without much work, iphone is better.

jonrobertp Forum Pro • Posts: 12,880
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

Gal Root wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

iPhone 11 Max , with better cameras than xs...is it worth staying with iPhone for easy use ? Never had android; and am a bit leery of the issues ; though I know the camera on P30 pro is very appealing.

Which issues..?
P30 is super powerful (far more than any iPhone) , but the Auto mode of the iPhone is superior IMO. It's not that the quality on the iPhone is better, but the Auto is more consistent with the results.

If you like anything more than point&shoot, Android is more appealing IMO.

While I am fairly critical about my photos ( I used to shoot weddings) , I'm less into learning how to navigate the android system from iPhone .  My family & friends use iPhones , and so Google says i might miss some texts from them when switching to android, and that Google would sent texts to my old number instead of to the new P30pro.

Oh, and it's said that the iPhone 11 may or will have 3x "zoom", which makes it a bit better than older models. I hope they measure that 3x from the standard lens, not the ultra wide .

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Gal Root
Gal Root Contributing Member • Posts: 625
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

jonrobertp wrote:

Gal Root wrote:

jonrobertp wrote:

iPhone 11 Max , with better cameras than xs...is it worth staying with iPhone for easy use ? Never had android; and am a bit leery of the issues ; though I know the camera on P30 pro is very appealing.

Which issues..?
P30 is super powerful (far more than any iPhone) , but the Auto mode of the iPhone is superior IMO. It's not that the quality on the iPhone is better, but the Auto is more consistent with the results.

If you like anything more than point&shoot, Android is more appealing IMO.

While I am fairly critical about my photos ( I used to shoot weddings) , I'm less into learning how to navigate the android system from iPhone . My family & friends use iPhones , and so Google says i might miss some texts from them when switching to android, and that Google would sent texts to my old number instead of to the new P30pro.

Oh, and it's said that the iPhone 11 may or will have 3x "zoom", which makes it a bit better than older models. I hope they measure that 3x from the standard lens, not the ultra wide .

Well, then you should probably stay with what is most comfortable for you.

Personally, I would never buy an Apple product again, but if you friends and family all use iMessages (or whatever it is called) , sure, stay with an iDevice.

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Van Nostrand Regular Member • Posts: 412
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

Neil_s wrote:

Gal Root wrote:

If you're into still photography, the discussion is pointless - P30 Pro by a long (LONG!!) mile.

Not really. While the P30 Pro has a much more versatile camera system I could at least equal the wide angle on the iphone using a sandmarc or moment lens/case and in terms of manual control and camera modes the ones on ios seem to be much more refined than the camera apps on android. Losing night mode is definitely a big one though, i'm very surprised a 3rd party app developer hasn't come up with a proper 'night mode' camera app on ios yet. Even if they charged 99p for it they'd make a fortune.

"i'm very surprised a 3rd party app developer hasn't come up with a proper 'night mode' camera app on ios yet."

Iphone's don't allow actual  long exposures. So developing a proper  good night mode app isn't possible.       A lot of Android phones allow long exposure/shutter and  some don't.   If a phone maker is trying to push their camera stuff,  it's pretty dumb IMO to not allow this stuff  when they allow other things for 3rd party developers like  RAW, upping bit rate for video, manual settings  etc.

OP Neil_s New Member • Posts: 9
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

Van Nostrand wrote:

Neil_s wrote:

Gal Root wrote:

If you're into still photography, the discussion is pointless - P30 Pro by a long (LONG!!) mile.

Not really. While the P30 Pro has a much more versatile camera system I could at least equal the wide angle on the iphone using a sandmarc or moment lens/case and in terms of manual control and camera modes the ones on ios seem to be much more refined than the camera apps on android. Losing night mode is definitely a big one though, i'm very surprised a 3rd party app developer hasn't come up with a proper 'night mode' camera app on ios yet. Even if they charged 99p for it they'd make a fortune.

"i'm very surprised a 3rd party app developer hasn't come up with a proper 'night mode' camera app on ios yet."

Iphone's don't allow actual long exposures. So developing a proper good night mode app isn't possible. A lot of Android phones allow long exposure/shutter and some don't. If a phone maker is trying to push their camera stuff, it's pretty dumb IMO to not allow this stuff when they allow other things for 3rd party developers like RAW, upping bit rate for video, manual settings etc.

Well that kind of sucks, I didn’t realise that iPhones don’t allow for long exposures. Surely they’ll have to change that and release something with the next generation of iPhone, they’re already two years behind the Pixel when it comes to low light photography. Granted apple don’t seem to release a feature until they know it’s good enough to meet their own expectations but it seems crazy to think they won’t at least have a go at some kind of night mode even though it goes against the ‘simplified bare bones’ camera app approach, unless they make it automatic like Samsung did with the s10 but look how that turned out...

OP Neil_s New Member • Posts: 9
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

Well I got the phone...and returned it. But not because I didn’t like it, in fact quite the opposite. My problem is that as previously mentioned I used to own a Mate 20 Pro but sold it when Huawei got their ban and while I loved the P30 Pros camera I didn’t find it to be a massive upgrade to the Mate 20s. I’m not arguing the fact that In crazy low light the P30s photos will be much better but I just can’t see myself ever needing to take a photo in conditions that dark.

Plus the other huge factor here is that on the website I used to buy my phone from the Mate 20 Pro now sits at £185 cheaper than the P30 Pro so I think I’m just going to purchase another one of those and use the extra money towards upgrading my actual camera.

DejayRezme Regular Member • Posts: 117
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

Van Nostrand wrote:

Neil_s wrote:

Gal Root wrote:

If you're into still photography, the discussion is pointless - P30 Pro by a long (LONG!!) mile.

"i'm very surprised a 3rd party app developer hasn't come up with a proper 'night mode' camera app on ios yet."

Iphone's don't allow actual long exposures. So developing a proper good night mode app isn't possible. A lot of Android phones allow long exposure/shutter and some don't. If a phone maker is trying to push their camera stuff, it's pretty dumb IMO to not allow this stuff when they allow other things for 3rd party developers like RAW, upping bit rate for video, manual settings etc.

Do you know if it's possible to increase the bit rate for video on the P30 Pro? I haven't found anything about this, just that it has a pretty low 26 Mbps bitrate for 4k video. I don't even know if that is for h264 or h265. It's like they don't want me to know.

If that can't be upped I'll probably wait... I'm sure the next generation of smartphones will have the same 40MP quad bayer sony sensor. I think 4k is almost useless with such a strong compression.

I'd like to see 10 bit h265 video with 100 Mbps or higher compression. Or variable compression so nature scenes don't come out all garbled. Maybe in future with AV1 things will become better. Is the often low bitrate some kind of licensing tier? I don't understand why the low bitrate. Sorry for ranting.

I'd also like to see night mode composed raw files like on the pixel 3 but with new sensor. So raw files in night mode look better than the jpeg.

EDIT: I just realized that the 40MP sensor is really 10MP of 3600x2700. So that sensor really can't produce perfectly sharp 4k footage, it's not a problem of the bitrate. So that quad bayer sensor would need to be 44MP in 4/3 aspect. Oh well.

_vlad Senior Member • Posts: 2,468
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

DejayRezme wrote

Do you know if it's possible to increase the bit rate for video on the P30 Pro? I haven't found anything about this, just that it has a pretty low 26 Mbps bitrate for 4k video. I don't even know if that is for h264 or h265. It's like they don't want me to know.

You can choose h265 or h264, you certainly know that h265 had better compression algorithm so even when bitrate stays same, output quality is better. (Aka h264 with higher bitrate). For 4k in native app. the bitrate is roughly 34Mbits (fw 178), and around 45 Mbits with fvshare app. (dedicated camera app. for freevision vilta M gimbal - however this is h264)

If that can't be upped I'll probably wait... I'm sure the next generation of smartphones will have the same 40MP quad bayer sony sensor. I think 4k is almost useless with such a strong compression.

4k h265 had much higher quality than FHD (detail wise) - can confirm for sure. So IMO it has practical use. In fact I use it all the time and have very little complaints. Unfortunately we are still limited to 30fps + ois does not work here ( AFAIK and AFAISee) There is some electronic stabilisation though, however best use is with gimbal.

I'd like to see 10 bit h265 video with 100 Mbps or higher compression. Or variable compression so nature scenes don't come out all garbled. Maybe in future with AV1 things will become better. Is the often low bitrate some kind of licensing tier? I don't understand why the low bitrate. Sorry for ranting.

It should be nice to have it, maybe P40? We'll see.

I'd also like to see night mode composed raw files like on the pixel 3 but with new sensor. So raw files in night mode look better than the jpeg.

EDIT: I just realized that the 40MP sensor is really 10MP of 3600x2700. So that sensor really can't produce perfectly sharp 4k footage, it's not a problem of the bitrate. So that quad bayer sensor would need to be 44MP in 4/3 aspect. Oh well.

I am not sure if you are correct. From the point of view of digital zooming there is significant difference between zooming-in with FHD and UHD. The reason IMO is that UHD uses whole sensor unlike FHD which uses only part of it. Whether this reduced resolution is due to cropping the sensor or combining four pixels into one I do not know. However zooming is significantly better with 4K which implies that source data are not from 3600 but from full 40Mpix downsampled to 4k. But I may be wrong.

BTW 4k has very good sharpness and is surprisingly smooth when panning(fw178) - which is not so common in phone area - panning is causing severe jerkiness (jumping) with some even latest phones, which some users (and testers) somehow refuse to see.

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Vlad

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DejayRezme Regular Member • Posts: 117
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

_vlad wrote:

DejayRezme wrote

Do you know if it's possible to increase the bit rate for video on the P30 Pro? I haven't found anything about this, just that it has a pretty low 26 Mbps bitrate for 4k video. I don't even know if that is for h264 or h265. It's like they don't want me to know.

You can choose h265 or h264, you certainly know that h265 had better compression algorithm so even when bitrate stays same, output quality is better. (Aka h264 with higher bitrate). For 4k in native app. the bitrate is roughly 34Mbits (fw 178), and around 45 Mbits with fvshare app. (dedicated camera app. for freevision vilta M gimbal - however this is h264)

Thank you! So that would be similar to the S9+. (4k60 72Mbps h264, 4k30 41Mbps h264, 4k60 42Mbps h265). Samsung also reduces the bitrate for h265 instead of increasing quality. So it seems I was wrong and the compression should be equivalent.

If that can't be upped I'll probably wait... I'm sure the next generation of smartphones will have the same 40MP quad bayer sony sensor. I think 4k is almost useless with such a strong compression.

4k h265 had much higher quality than FHD (detail wise) - can confirm for sure. So IMO it has practical use. In fact I use it all the time and have very little complaints. Unfortunately we are still limited to 30fps + ois does not work here ( AFAIK and AFAISee) There is some electronic stabilisation though, however best use is with gimbal.

Yeah you're right of course, 4k looks much better. I'm just annoyed by the limitations

I'd like to see 10 bit h265 video with 100 Mbps or higher compression. Or variable compression so nature scenes don't come out all garbled. Maybe in future with AV1 things will become better. Is the often low bitrate some kind of licensing tier? I don't understand why the low bitrate. Sorry for ranting.

It should be nice to have it, maybe P40? We'll see.

I'd also like to see night mode composed raw files like on the pixel 3 but with new sensor. So raw files in night mode look better than the jpeg.

EDIT: I just realized that the 40MP sensor is really 10MP of 3600x2700. So that sensor really can't produce perfectly sharp 4k footage, it's not a problem of the bitrate. So that quad bayer sensor would need to be 44MP in 4/3 aspect. Oh well.

I am not sure if you are correct. From the point of view of digital zooming there is significant difference between zooming-in with FHD and UHD. The reason IMO is that UHD uses whole sensor unlike FHD which uses only part of it. Whether this reduced resolution is due to cropping the sensor or combining four pixels into one I do not know. However zooming is significantly better with 4K which implies that source data are not from 3600 but from full 40Mpix downsampled to 4k. But I may be wrong.

I think it would be more demanding to downsample in uneven numbers from the 40MP quad-bayer sensor. And I believe for the good dynamic range they have to downsample to 10MP first. But it really only adds very little softness.

I found a comparison tool for the P30P and the S10 and the new Galaxy A80:
https://www.gsmarena.com/vidcmp.php3?idType=4&idPhone1=9635&idPhone2=9535&idPhone3=9659

You can see that in bright light the 10 has more resolution and in low light the better noise levels of the P30P preserve more detail. But the difference is very small. You can see it here too if you search for fine textures.

Apparently all these new phones are coming out with a 48MP quad bayer sensor. That one is slightly smaller (1/2") than the P30 one (1/1.7") but it should also do better in low light / better dynamic range. I think? In the studio test comparison above you can see the Galaxy A80 with this sensor wins over both in bright and low light.

I'd be curious how these 48MP phones compare with the GCam google camera app. And if they support all the pixel 3 features like computational raw.

And how much of the gcam tech the P30 pro is already using, how much of it is the lens, the sensor or the software. Too bad they don't open the camera2api that is apparently needed.

A Huawei Mate30 with the same optics but slightly upgraded 48MP sensor and open for gcam would probably be the ideal camera.

Anyways, thanks for the info and sorry if I'm starting to ramble haha.

BTW 4k has very good sharpness and is surprisingly smooth when panning(fw178) - which is not so common in phone area - panning is causing severe jerkiness (jumping) with some even latest phones, which some users (and testers) somehow refuse to see.

Did they update that with firmware? I saw an early video where OIS was fighting with panning.

_vlad Senior Member • Posts: 2,468
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

DejayRezme wrote:

I think it would be more demanding to downsample in uneven numbers from the 40MP quad-bayer sensor. And I believe for the good dynamic range they have to downsample to 10MP first. But it really only adds very little softness.

I found a comparison tool for the P30P and the S10 and the new Galaxy A80:
https://www.gsmarena.com/vidcmp.php3?idType=4&idPhone1=9635&idPhone2=9535&idPhone3=9659

You can see that in bright light the 10 has more resolution and in low light the better noise levels of the P30P preserve more detail. But the difference is very small. You can see it here too if you search for fine textures.

What I see here - that both Samsungs are strongly oversharpened (halos around contrasty edges). It is practically impossible to get rid off them - even with professional tools in later postprocess. It looks OK when viewed on small screens - but - hey - 4k for small displays what is it good for? Once used on larger monitor you immediatelly see where the things are running downhill.

Apparently all these new phones are coming out with a 48MP quad bayer sensor. That one is slightly smaller (1/2") than the P30 one (1/1.7") but it should also do better in low light / better dynamic range. I think? In the studio test comparison above you can see the Galaxy A80 with this sensor wins over both in bright and low light.

I'd be curious how these 48MP phones compare with the GCam google camera app. And if they support all the pixel 3 features like computational raw.

And how much of the gcam tech the P30 pro is already using, how much of it is the lens, the sensor or the software. Too bad they don't open the camera2api that is apparently needed.

But camera2api is opened - and I have two applications which can utilize it - to different extent. Not all the features but e.g. all three lenses are recognized. I would say this is more problem of camera app maker than HUA problem.

A Huawei Mate30 with the same optics but slightly upgraded 48MP sensor and open for gcam would probably be the ideal camera.

Anyways, thanks for the info and sorry if I'm starting to ramble haha.

BTW 4k has very good sharpness and is surprisingly smooth when panning(fw178) - which is not so common in phone area - panning is causing severe jerkiness (jumping) with some even latest phones, which some users (and testers) somehow refuse to see.

Did they update that with firmware? I saw an early video where OIS was fighting with panning.

Yes - 178 fw vs 161 tweaked the way how dual OIS works (combined with ES). It is most visible when panning in video.

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Vlad

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DejayRezme Regular Member • Posts: 117
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max

_vlad wrote:

DejayRezme wrote:

I think it would be more demanding to downsample in uneven numbers from the 40MP quad-bayer sensor. And I believe for the good dynamic range they have to downsample to 10MP first. But it really only adds very little softness.

I found a comparison tool for the P30P and the S10 and the new Galaxy A80:
https://www.gsmarena.com/vidcmp.php3?idType=4&idPhone1=9635&idPhone2=9535&idPhone3=9659

You can see that in bright light the 10 has more resolution and in low light the better noise levels of the P30P preserve more detail. But the difference is very small. You can see it here too if you search for fine textures.

What I see here - that both Samsungs are strongly oversharpened (halos around contrasty edges). It is practically impossible to get rid off them - even with professional tools in later postprocess. It looks OK when viewed on small screens - but - hey - 4k for small displays what is it good for? Once used on larger monitor you immediatelly see where the things are running downhill.

EDIT: You're right, looking again I see that too. The P30P video image definitely looks better.

But I mean just pure resolution, it's pretty clear that they only have 3600 pixels horizontally and upscale to 4k. If you go to the first test scene (iso) you can see at that narrowing resolution lines the P3OP goes down to 16 and the A80 goes down to 22.

In the low light image you can still kind of make out the numbers on the A80 but not on the P30P.

The bigger problem is that both cameras get details destroyed by compression though.

Apparently all these new phones are coming out with a 48MP quad bayer sensor. That one is slightly smaller (1/2") than the P30 one (1/1.7") but it should also do better in low light / better dynamic range. I think? In the studio test comparison above you can see the Galaxy A80 with this sensor wins over both in bright and low light.

I'd be curious how these 48MP phones compare with the GCam google camera app. And if they support all the pixel 3 features like computational raw.

And how much of the gcam tech the P30 pro is already using, how much of it is the lens, the sensor or the software. Too bad they don't open the camera2api that is apparently needed.

But camera2api is opened - and I have two applications which can utilize it - to different extent. Not all the features but e.g. all three lenses are recognized. I would say this is more problem of camera app maker than HUA problem.

I think the support is limited so you get access to the basic stuff but not enough to make gcam really work. You need raw access to the camera data. That was my impression at least why only the pixel 2 version of gcam works. But I might be wrong.

Here is a thread about the camera2 api support: https://uk.community.huawei.com/ask-questions-about-the-camera-on-your-device-26/huawei-p30-pro-camera2-api-implementation-4873

One thing I'd like to increase the Mbps to 100-150 or so for video.

A Huawei Mate30 with the same optics but slightly upgraded 48MP sensor and open for gcam would probably be the ideal camera.

Anyways, thanks for the info and sorry if I'm starting to ramble haha.

BTW 4k has very good sharpness and is surprisingly smooth when panning(fw178) - which is not so common in phone area - panning is causing severe jerkiness (jumping) with some even latest phones, which some users (and testers) somehow refuse to see.

Did they update that with firmware? I saw an early video where OIS was fighting with panning.

Yes - 178 fw vs 161 tweaked the way how dual OIS works (combined with ES). It is most visible when panning in video.

Jostian
Jostian Veteran Member • Posts: 3,579
Re: Honest Camera Reviews P30 Pro or IPhone XS Max
1

DejayRezme wrote:

_vlad wrote:

DejayRezme wrote:

I think it would be more demanding to downsample in uneven numbers from the 40MP quad-bayer sensor. And I believe for the good dynamic range they have to downsample to 10MP first. But it really only adds very little softness.

I found a comparison tool for the P30P and the S10 and the new Galaxy A80:
https://www.gsmarena.com/vidcmp.php3?idType=4&idPhone1=9635&idPhone2=9535&idPhone3=9659

You can see that in bright light the 10 has more resolution and in low light the better noise levels of the P30P preserve more detail. But the difference is very small. You can see it here too if you search for fine textures.

What I see here - that both Samsungs are strongly oversharpened (halos around contrasty edges). It is practically impossible to get rid off them - even with professional tools in later postprocess. It looks OK when viewed on small screens - but - hey - 4k for small displays what is it good for? Once used on larger monitor you immediatelly see where the things are running downhill.

EDIT: You're right, looking again I see that too. The P30P video image definitely looks better.

But I mean just pure resolution, it's pretty clear that they only have 3600 pixels horizontally and upscale to 4k. If you go to the first test scene (iso) you can see at that narrowing resolution lines the P3OP goes down to 16 and the A80 goes down to 22.

In the low light image you can still kind of make out the numbers on the A80 but not on the P30P.

The bigger problem is that both cameras get details destroyed by compression though.

Try this to avoid compression etc. issues and over-processing, on P20/30's Pro's & Mate 20 Pro too:

If you go to Pro mode and activate RAW, the jpeg file comes directly from the RAW and is not processed by the std/auto processing process.

see 100% crops below, left side shows jpegs from auto mode or pro mode (with RAW off) and the right side shows the SOOC jpegs from Pro mode with RAW on) there is a massive difference in processing with the SOOC jpegs from the RAW file being way more natural looking and less processed. The Huawei's convert the RAW to jpeg without any of the heavy processing that normally happens in Auto mode or Pro mode with RAW off.

Its this 'hidden' feature that gives the Huawei's the edge in jpegs. I tried to see if my S9 and S10 Plus do the same, but they dont. The SOOC jpeg when shooting with RAW on uses the same processing as auto mode, i.e: the jpeg does not come from the RAW file. so with the Samsung the Auto mode jpeg and the jpeg you get in pro mode with RAW on are the same, just with the addition of the RAW file.

This to me at least is a massive find as the IQ is really superb, very natural looking like one would get from a DSLR without the over-processed feel and look.

Apparently all these new phones are coming out with a 48MP quad bayer sensor. That one is slightly smaller (1/2") than the P30 one (1/1.7") but it should also do better in low light / better dynamic range. I think? In the studio test comparison above you can see the Galaxy A80 with this sensor wins over both in bright and low light.

I'd be curious how these 48MP phones compare with the GCam google camera app. And if they support all the pixel 3 features like computational raw.

And how much of the gcam tech the P30 pro is already using, how much of it is the lens, the sensor or the software. Too bad they don't open the camera2api that is apparently needed.

But camera2api is opened - and I have two applications which can utilize it - to different extent. Not all the features but e.g. all three lenses are recognized. I would say this is more problem of camera app maker than HUA problem.

I think the support is limited so you get access to the basic stuff but not enough to make gcam really work. You need raw access to the camera data. That was my impression at least why only the pixel 2 version of gcam works. But I might be wrong.

Here is a thread about the camera2 api support: https://uk.community.huawei.com/ask-questions-about-the-camera-on-your-device-26/huawei-p30-pro-camera2-api-implementation-4873

One thing I'd like to increase the Mbps to 100-150 or so for video.

A Huawei Mate30 with the same optics but slightly upgraded 48MP sensor and open for gcam would probably be the ideal camera.

Anyways, thanks for the info and sorry if I'm starting to ramble haha.

BTW 4k has very good sharpness and is surprisingly smooth when panning(fw178) - which is not so common in phone area - panning is causing severe jerkiness (jumping) with some even latest phones, which some users (and testers) somehow refuse to see.

Did they update that with firmware? I saw an early video where OIS was fighting with panning.

Yes - 178 fw vs 161 tweaked the way how dual OIS works (combined with ES). It is most visible when panning in video.

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