what causes the poor quality

Started 1 month ago | Questions
ocean76 Regular Member • Posts: 453
what causes the poor quality

Hi,

I hope this is the right forum for my problem.

I want to use my Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM with my fujifilm XT2 so I bought a fotasy adaptor. But I ve got poor results although this lens works great on my canon eos 6d.

is this lack of sharpness that I have (when the fotasy is on) because of the brand or do all the adaptors in the market happen to cause these kind of unsharp results..

I also have a sigma 2x extender and I cant take a sharp photo with the combination of

fujixt2+fotasy adaptor+sigma 2x extender+canon 70-200 f4...

below is a comparison of 3 different cases:

you can easily see that the first 2 photos are very soft while the 3rd one is sharp because the 3rd one is shot with the native fujinon 55-200mm lens..

setup: fujixt2+fotasy adaptor+sigma 2x extender+canon 70-200mm f4 @200mm, (%100 cropped view)

this is fujixt2+fotasy adaptor+ canon 70-200mm f4 @200mm, (%100 cropped view)

this is: fujixt2+fujinon 55-200mm @200mm, (%100 cropped view)

the reason I want to use my canon 70-200mm although I have the native 55-200mm is because I want to reach a higher zoom and the only way to do that is by using my sigma 2x extender (for canon mount) and I have to use that with the fotasy adaptor of course.With that setup I can reach to 600mm (in 35mm format) while with just the native fujinon 55-200mm I can only reach to 300mm (in 35mm format) so the difference is huge..But the quality is not good at all and I dont know what causes this problem, is it related with the fotasy or do all the simple adaptors are the same?

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Sjak
Sjak Senior Member • Posts: 4,517
Re: what causes the poor quality

Did you use a tripod for these shots?

What exact adapter are you using? Does it have aperture control, and if so, what aperture did you set?

If the lens has image stabilization, does the adapter allow it to function?

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Lightshow
Lightshow Veteran Member • Posts: 6,967
Re: what causes the poor quality

A better comparison would be to shoot the same lens on the 2 cameras, in AF and in manual focus, and focus on a subject that's mid way between MFD and Infinity.

Your adapter may also be causing a reduction in contrast, so a different adapter may also help with that.

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fferreres Senior Member • Posts: 1,537
Re: what causes the poor quality

ocean76 wrote:

Hi,

I hope this is the right forum for my problem.

I want to use my Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM with my fujifilm XT2 so I bought a fotasy adaptor. But I ve got poor results although this lens works great on my canon eos 6d.

is this lack of sharpness that I have (when the fotasy is on) because of the brand or do all the adaptors in the market happen to cause these kind of unsharp results..

I also have a sigma 2x extender and I cant take a sharp photo with the combination of

fujixt2+fotasy adaptor+sigma 2x extender+canon 70-200 f4...

below is a comparison of 3 different cases:

you can easily see that the first 2 photos are very soft while the 3rd one is sharp because the 3rd one is shot with the native fujinon 55-200mm lens..

setup: fujixt2+fotasy adaptor+sigma 2x extender+canon 70-200mm f4 @200mm, (%100 cropped view)

this is fujixt2+fotasy adaptor+ canon 70-200mm f4 @200mm, (%100 cropped view)

the reason I want to use my canon 70-200mm although I have the native 55-200mm is because I want to reach a higher zoom and the only way to do that is by using my sigma 2x extender (for canon mount) and I have to use that with the fotasy adaptor of course.With that setup I can reach to 600mm (in 35mm format) while with just the native fujinon 55-200mm I can only reach to 300mm (in 35mm format) so the difference is huge..But the quality is not good at all and I dont know what causes this problem, is it related with the fotasy or do all the simple adaptors are the same?

It looks really muddy. Is this adapter having glass in between or is it just hollow? I can't fanthom what could cause such a muddy 100% crop. it's not normal. What part of the picture was cropped, center, mid or corner?

Sjak
Sjak Senior Member • Posts: 4,517
Re: what causes the poor quality

fferreres wrote:

It looks really muddy. Is this adapter having glass in between or is it just hollow? I can't fanthom what could cause such a muddy 100% crop. it's not normal. What part of the picture was cropped, center, mid or corner?

That's why I also asked whether a tripod was used: look at the shutter speeds.

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fferreres Senior Member • Posts: 1,537
Re: what causes the poor quality

Sjak wrote:

fferreres wrote:

It looks really muddy. Is this adapter having glass in between or is it just hollow? I can't fanthom what could cause such a muddy 100% crop. it's not normal. What part of the picture was cropped, center, mid or corner?

That's why I also asked whether a tripod was used: look at the shutter speeds.

yes, something is wrong. Either some horrible glass is in between, or some problem with stabilization on the lens, or bad calibration of AF. But I see no shake direction. I really looks as if a mist of oil of a bad TC is in between. I also think the TC idea will not work out very well. There are some very cheap manual 300mm from Canon, maybe that's a better idea.

OP ocean76 Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: what causes the poor quality

Sjak wrote:

Did you use a tripod for these shots?

What exact adapter are you using? Does it have aperture control, and if so, what aperture did you set?

If the lens has image stabilization, does the adapter allow it to function?

yes,all the shots with the tripod..

the adapter Im using has no aperture control and autofocus so I focus manually..

the aperture is f8 (I lose 2 stops) I believe if the sigma extender is on, if not, then the aperture is f4 I think.

I set the lens image stabilization to off because I use it on the tripod..

OP ocean76 Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: what causes the poor quality

fferreres wrote:

ocean76 wrote:

Hi,

I hope this is the right forum for my problem.

I want to use my Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM with my fujifilm XT2 so I bought a fotasy adaptor. But I ve got poor results although this lens works great on my canon eos 6d.

is this lack of sharpness that I have (when the fotasy is on) because of the brand or do all the adaptors in the market happen to cause these kind of unsharp results..

I also have a sigma 2x extender and I cant take a sharp photo with the combination of

fujixt2+fotasy adaptor+sigma 2x extender+canon 70-200 f4...

below is a comparison of 3 different cases:

you can easily see that the first 2 photos are very soft while the 3rd one is sharp because the 3rd one is shot with the native fujinon 55-200mm lens..

setup: fujixt2+fotasy adaptor+sigma 2x extender+canon 70-200mm f4 @200mm, (%100 cropped view)

this is fujixt2+fotasy adaptor+ canon 70-200mm f4 @200mm, (%100 cropped view)

the reason I want to use my canon 70-200mm although I have the native 55-200mm is because I want to reach a higher zoom and the only way to do that is by using my sigma 2x extender (for canon mount) and I have to use that with the fotasy adaptor of course.With that setup I can reach to 600mm (in 35mm format) while with just the native fujinon 55-200mm I can only reach to 300mm (in 35mm format) so the difference is huge..But the quality is not good at all and I dont know what causes this problem, is it related with the fotasy or do all the simple adaptors are the same?

It looks really muddy. Is this adapter having glass in between or is it just hollow? I can't fanthom what could cause such a muddy 100% crop. it's not normal. What part of the picture was cropped, center, mid or corner?

the adaptor has no glass.

these all are the crops from the center part of the pictures..

OP ocean76 Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: what causes the poor quality

Sjak wrote:

fferreres wrote:

It looks really muddy. Is this adapter having glass in between or is it just hollow? I can't fanthom what could cause such a muddy 100% crop. it's not normal. What part of the picture was cropped, center, mid or corner?

That's why I also asked whether a tripod was used: look at the shutter speeds.

yes ,all were shot on a tripod and with a remote controller..

OP ocean76 Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: what causes the poor quality

fferreres wrote:

Sjak wrote:

fferreres wrote:

It looks really muddy. Is this adapter having glass in between or is it just hollow? I can't fanthom what could cause such a muddy 100% crop. it's not normal. What part of the picture was cropped, center, mid or corner?

That's why I also asked whether a tripod was used: look at the shutter speeds.

yes, something is wrong. Either some horrible glass is in between, or some problem with stabilization on the lens, or bad calibration of AF. But I see no shake direction. I really looks as if a mist of oil of a bad TC is in between. I also think the TC idea will not work out very well. There are some very cheap manual 300mm from Canon, maybe that's a better idea.

using tc might not be a good idea as you said but even without the tlc  it looks soft and muddy.
And another thing is: although it's been a long time since I have last used this very same canon 70-2000mm lens on my canon eos 6d, I don't remember having any lack of sharpness problems like this at all..

so all of the things you have mentioned make me think that my fotasy adapter is faulty, am I wrong?

I have to make another final test: fujixt2+fotasy adapter+ my another canon lens; if that shot is muddy also,then I'l be 100% sure that the problem is with the fotasy adapter..

and probably buy another adapter, can you recommend me one if you know?

Sjak
Sjak Senior Member • Posts: 4,517
Re: what causes the poor quality
2

An additional issue is that you're shooting wide open, since there is no aperture control.

Lenses typically are softer wide open.

On top of this, although the cams have similar MPs, the sensor on the Fuji is much smaller (and has smaller pixel pitch), and therefore will show "softness" earlier than the 35mm sensor of the 6d.) This potential problem will be emphasized with the TC-shots.

Lastly, AF-lenses typically have a very short focus-throw, which can make accurate manual focus very challenging. Not sure about this particular lens though, I don't use canon-lenses.

If you intend to shoot more EOS-lenses on your Fuji, maybe you can consider the Fringer-adapter? It will allow AF, aperture control and image stabilization to work. I don't know if this particular lens is supported by Fringer, but you could check that. Many members of the Fuji-board seem very happy with the results.

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Volker G Regular Member • Posts: 179
Re: what causes the poor quality

ocean76 wrote:

the adaptor has no glass.

But it seems quite reflective inside which could cause the bad contrast.

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OP ocean76 Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: what causes the poor quality

Sjak wrote:

An additional issue is that you're shooting wide open, since there is no aperture control.

Lenses typically are softer wide open.

the lens is f4 originally and shooting at f8 should still be sharp, so I really think that my adapter is wrong. But when I think again, how can an adapter without a glass can be the reason for these muddy and soft results? Does it make sense?

On top of this, although the cams have similar MPs, the sensor on the Fuji is much smaller (and has smaller pixel pitch), and therefore will show "softness" earlier than the 35mm sensor of the 6d.) This potential problem will be emphasized with the TC-shots.

Lastly, AF-lenses typically have a very short focus-throw, which can make accurate manual focus very challenging. Not sure about this particular lens though, I don't use canon-lenses.

If you intend to shoot more EOS-lenses on your Fuji, maybe you can consider the Fringer-adapter? It will allow AF, aperture control and image stabilization to work. I don't know if this particular lens is supported by Fringer, but you could check that. Many members of the Fuji-board seem very happy with the results.

Sjak
Sjak Senior Member • Posts: 4,517
Re: what causes the poor quality
1

ocean76 wrote:

Sjak wrote:

An additional issue is that you're shooting wide open, since there is no aperture control.

Lenses typically are softer wide open.

the lens is f4 originally and shooting at f8 should still be sharp, so I really think that my adapter is wrong. But when I think again, how can an adapter without a glass can be the reason for these muddy and soft results? Does it make sense?

The TC will not close the aperture on your lens. So you're still shooting at full aperture = wide open.

The adapter itself is already less than ideal as there is no aperture control, and therefore limits you to shooting wide open. See also my other remarks re. this and other adapters in my previous post.

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fferreres Senior Member • Posts: 1,537
Re: what causes the poor quality

ocean76 wrote:

fferreres wrote:

Sjak wrote:

fferreres wrote:

It looks really muddy. Is this adapter having glass in between or is it just hollow? I can't fanthom what could cause such a muddy 100% crop. it's not normal. What part of the picture was cropped, center, mid or corner?

That's why I also asked whether a tripod was used: look at the shutter speeds.

yes, something is wrong. Either some horrible glass is in between, or some problem with stabilization on the lens, or bad calibration of AF. But I see no shake direction. I really looks as if a mist of oil of a bad TC is in between. I also think the TC idea will not work out very well. There are some very cheap manual 300mm from Canon, maybe that's a better idea.

using tc might not be a good idea as you said but even without the tlc it looks soft and muddy.
And another thing is: although it's been a long time since I have last used this very same canon 70-2000mm lens on my canon eos 6d, I don't remember having any lack of sharpness problems like this at all..

so all of the things you have mentioned make me think that my fotasy adapter is faulty, am I wrong?

I have to make another final test: fujixt2+fotasy adapter+ my another canon lens; if that shot is muddy also,then I'l be 100% sure that the problem is with the fotasy adapter..

and probably buy another adapter, can you recommend me one if you know?

Try a dumb $15 adapter, all manual. If it is sharp, then you know it’s something else. Otherwise, you have less things to troubleshoot. My opinion is it is the extender.

MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 38,053
Re: what causes the poor quality
1

The only possible things that could be wrong with your adapter are:

1) it is the incorrect flange to flange distance - this would only mean that it would have issues with infinity focus (only).

2) that it has glass elements in it that are incorrect for the combination or have a haze of some kind on the elements.

With no glass in your Fotasy I doubt if this is the issue.

The 2x teleconverter could be an issue - I doubt if all teleconverters will always work well with all lens combinations - the glass could also be hazed.

The Canon zoom lens itself could have developed internal haze - try a torch shining through the lens - it should show up any haze and possibly a bunch of other gremlins.

I only use a torch as a last resort as the results more than not horrify me ....

Then there is the low shutter speed - but motion softness does not necessary look like haze.

Could it be atmospheric haze at a particular time of the day?

It is always an issue trying to make truly far away images closer by the use of combinations including teleconverters as it usually needs high quality kit to get this to work well.

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Tom Caldwell

MOD Tom Caldwell Forum Pro • Posts: 38,053
Re: what causes the poor quality

fferreres wrote:

ocean76 wrote:

fferreres wrote:

Sjak wrote:

fferreres wrote:

It looks really muddy. Is this adapter having glass in between or is it just hollow? I can't fanthom what could cause such a muddy 100% crop. it's not normal. What part of the picture was cropped, center, mid or corner?

That's why I also asked whether a tripod was used: look at the shutter speeds.

yes, something is wrong. Either some horrible glass is in between, or some problem with stabilization on the lens, or bad calibration of AF. But I see no shake direction. I really looks as if a mist of oil of a bad TC is in between. I also think the TC idea will not work out very well. There are some very cheap manual 300mm from Canon, maybe that's a better idea.

using tc might not be a good idea as you said but even without the tlc it looks soft and muddy.
And another thing is: although it's been a long time since I have last used this very same canon 70-2000mm lens on my canon eos 6d, I don't remember having any lack of sharpness problems like this at all..

so all of the things you have mentioned make me think that my fotasy adapter is faulty, am I wrong?

I have to make another final test: fujixt2+fotasy adapter+ my another canon lens; if that shot is muddy also,then I'l be 100% sure that the problem is with the fotasy adapter..

and probably buy another adapter, can you recommend me one if you know?

Try a dumb $15 adapter, all manual. If it is sharp, then you know it’s something else. Otherwise, you have less things to troubleshoot. My opinion is it is the extender.

I agree, it is certainly not the adapter and the lens seems ruled out - the lens is wide open though and chances are that the extender is not tuned to the combination or is hazed.

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Tom Caldwell

Alan WF
Alan WF Senior Member • Posts: 1,830
Re: what causes the poor quality

ocean76 wrote:

Sjak wrote:

An additional issue is that you're shooting wide open, since there is no aperture control.

Lenses typically are softer wide open.

the lens is f4 originally and shooting at f8 should still be sharp, so I really think that my adapter is wrong. But when I think again, how can an adapter without a glass can be the reason for these muddy and soft results? Does it make sense?

In both images with the Canon lens, the lens is at f/4. However, with the teleconverter, you are then taking that f/4 image and optically magnifying it by a factor of two. That process is likely to take the already somewhat soft image and make it softer.

I also worry whether either of the images with the Canon is adequately focused. How did you focus?

Regards,

Alan

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OP ocean76 Regular Member • Posts: 453
Re: what causes the poor quality

fferreres wrote:

ocean76 wrote:

fferreres wrote:

Sjak wrote:

fferreres wrote:

It looks really muddy. Is this adapter having glass in between or is it just hollow? I can't fanthom what could cause such a muddy 100% crop. it's not normal. What part of the picture was cropped, center, mid or corner?

That's why I also asked whether a tripod was used: look at the shutter speeds.

yes, something is wrong. Either some horrible glass is in between, or some problem with stabilization on the lens, or bad calibration of AF. But I see no shake direction. I really looks as if a mist of oil of a bad TC is in between. I also think the TC idea will not work out very well. There are some very cheap manual 300mm from Canon, maybe that's a better idea.

using tc might not be a good idea as you said but even without the tlc it looks soft and muddy.
And another thing is: although it's been a long time since I have last used this very same canon 70-2000mm lens on my canon eos 6d, I don't remember having any lack of sharpness problems like this at all..

so all of the things you have mentioned make me think that my fotasy adapter is faulty, am I wrong?

I have to make another final test: fujixt2+fotasy adapter+ my another canon lens; if that shot is muddy also,then I'l be 100% sure that the problem is with the fotasy adapter..

and probably buy another adapter, can you recommend me one if you know?

Try a dumb $15 adapter, all manual. If it is sharp, then you know it’s something else. Otherwise, you have less things to troubleshoot. My opinion is it is the extender.

I dont think the problem is bec of the extender because  when I remove the extender the result is again horrible: soft and muddy (see my example photo #2)

moedius
moedius Regular Member • Posts: 392
Re: what causes the poor quality

ocean76 wrote:

fferreres wrote:

ocean76 wrote:

fferreres wrote:

Sjak wrote:

fferreres wrote:

It looks really muddy. Is this adapter having glass in between or is it just hollow? I can't fanthom what could cause such a muddy 100% crop. it's not normal. What part of the picture was cropped, center, mid or corner?

That's why I also asked whether a tripod was used: look at the shutter speeds.

yes, something is wrong. Either some horrible glass is in between, or some problem with stabilization on the lens, or bad calibration of AF. But I see no shake direction. I really looks as if a mist of oil of a bad TC is in between. I also think the TC idea will not work out very well. There are some very cheap manual 300mm from Canon, maybe that's a better idea.

using tc might not be a good idea as you said but even without the tlc it looks soft and muddy.
And another thing is: although it's been a long time since I have last used this very same canon 70-2000mm lens on my canon eos 6d, I don't remember having any lack of sharpness problems like this at all..

so all of the things you have mentioned make me think that my fotasy adapter is faulty, am I wrong?

I have to make another final test: fujixt2+fotasy adapter+ my another canon lens; if that shot is muddy also,then I'l be 100% sure that the problem is with the fotasy adapter..

and probably buy another adapter, can you recommend me one if you know?

Try a dumb $15 adapter, all manual. If it is sharp, then you know it’s something else. Otherwise, you have less things to troubleshoot. My opinion is it is the extender.

I dont think the problem is bec of the extender because when I remove the extender the result is again horrible: soft and muddy (see my example photo #2)

I'm sure it's not the extender, but I would just remove that from the equation all together until you work out the underlying issue.  It just magnifies the problem and complicates the troubleshooting.

I might have missed it if you'd already posted in the thread, but is there a filter on the lens, and are they shot in raw or jpg?

I don't see how it could be the glassless adapter, unless you were testing by focusing to infinity in your test shots and the adapter prevented reaching it, thereby misfocusing everything.

It looks most like haze or a bad filter to me, but you probably need to do more controlled testing to narrow it down.

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