Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,430
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

robblackett wrote:

George1958 wrote:

T3- growth is no surprise given the near fire sale prices of old inventory and the discounts and promotions for more recent stock. Growth in a shrinking market has no where to go except down, and it will.

Sadly this is so.

CIPA production figures for all ILC cameras Jan- Apr 2019 show a 30.9% drop compared with the same period last year.

Any individual company would have to perform spectacularly well on their own to reverse an industry decline such as this.

Yes, some companies are:

"In money terms, Fujifilm's sales increased by only 0.6 percent. Sony, however, managed to expand sales by a whopping 14.5 percent, thanks to a focus on high-priced premium models in its camera lineup."

And some companies are not:

"At the other end of the spectrum, things do look pretty dire for industry giants Canon, Nikon and Olympus whose sales value went down by 11.4, 28.5, and 21.3 percent respectively."

https://www.dpreview.com/news/8473520898/bcn-retail-report-japanese-camera-market-still-in-decline

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George1958 Contributing Member • Posts: 689
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

MILC man wrote:

George1958 wrote:

its not a claim, we have more than 70 million handsets in the Uk alone, check out facebook etc, most of the content is from smart phones.

that doesn't explain why panasonic released an entirely new expensive ff milc lineup of bodies and lenses in 2019.

why did panasonic do that, if the ilc market is overrun with smartphones, as you keep claiming.

Samsung released a compelling NX1 and NX500 too..........................

how did sony see a 2% fy2019 profit increase, if the ilc market is overrun with smartphones, as you keep claiming.

likely upgrades to the rather poor by comparison A7mkii, and a fire sale of old inventory , plus plenty of discounts and cash backs.

If things are that rosey, you don't need to hard sell, but that is what is happening across the industry

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T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,430
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

George1958 wrote:

For all I know the lions share of new Sony sales could be largely current Sony Owners,

No it's not. Given the large sales volumes that Sony is getting, a lot of those buyers are definitely coming from other systems-- specifically DSLR systems.

let’s face it, the A7 mk iii is a country mile better than the mkii?

It is. You clearly haven't been paying attention. It's apparent that you are just out of touch.

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MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

George1958 wrote:

MILC man wrote:

George1958 wrote:

its not a claim, we have more than 70 million handsets in the Uk alone, check out facebook etc, most of the content is from smart phones.

that doesn't explain why panasonic released an entirely new expensive ff milc lineup of bodies and lenses in 2019.

why did panasonic do that, if the ilc market is overrun with smartphones, as you keep claiming.

Samsung released a compelling NX1 and NX500 too..........................

Nikon released a compelling v1 series too...………...

how did sony see a 2% fy2019 profit increase, if the ilc market is overrun with smartphones, as you keep claiming.

likely upgrades to the rather poor by comparison A7mkii, and a fire sale of old inventory , plus plenty of discounts and cash backs.

t3 already proved that wrong.

George1958 Contributing Member • Posts: 689
Re: ↑ rise of YouTub Video + Sony A7 superior Low-light, Eye AF tracking

I never had trouble with focus to begin with, so who needs a solution to a problem that does not exist?

I do shoot film, not all of the time. That is perhaps why I don't need a gimmick like eye focus, I learnt how to focus a camera myself.

When you strip back the obsession with tech, Sony does nothing that can't be done on any other modern cameras. The word ground breaking is over used and based on marginal differences that never find practical application in real world situations.

To be ground breaking you need to do something in the image that can not be achieved by another camera, so what is it? It is nothing.

Sony marketing captures more photographers that photographers capture images.

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George1958 Contributing Member • Posts: 689
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

Hah hah, Nikon 1 was never ground breaking , only interesting

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(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,972
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

MILC man wrote:

robblackett wrote:

MILC man wrote:

robblackett wrote:

George1958 wrote:

T3- growth is no surprise given the near fire sale prices of old inventory and the discounts and promotions for more recent stock. Growth in a shrinking market has no where to go except down, and it will.

Sadly this is so.

CIPA production figures for all ILC cameras Jan- Apr 2019 show a 30.9% drop compared with the same period last year.

Any individual company would have to perform spectacularly well on their own to reverse an industry decline such as this.

read the thread title, this is about market position, not industry decline.

sony had a 2% increase in profit for fy2019, vs. dismal yearly reports for canikon.

it's not the same for all companies.

However if the camera market is buggered (although I would imagine most of us hope it isn't) then a 2% increase in profit fy2019 for your beloved really isn't going to make all that much difference.

riiight, shareholders and brand owners don't care about profit, and the future of a company.

what's next, the moon is made out of green cheese.

It isn't?

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,972
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

T3 wrote:

Wrong. Sony actually sold fewer units but brought in more money:

"Canon [unit volume] is down 1.3 percent year-over-year, Sony 6.6 percent, Olympus 13.8 percent and Nikon even 15 percent.

The picture slightly shifts when looking at revenue, though. In money terms, Fujifilm's sales increased by only 0.6 percent. Sony, however, managed to expand sales by a whopping 14.5 percent, thanks to a focus on high-priced premium models in its camera lineup.

At the other end of the spectrum, things do look pretty dire for industry giants Canon, Nikon and Olympus whose sales value went down by 11.4, 28.5, and 21.3 percent respectively."

You don't sell fewer units but bring in more money by selling at "near fire sale prices of old inventory and the discounts and promotions for more recent stock." That's actually what Canon and Nikon have been doing, which is why their sales values have all dropped so much. Sony has been able to successfully capture higher-end users-- the true photo enthusiasts-- that are willing to spend more money. So while Canon saw their unit volume drop by only 1.3 percent, the reason why their sales value dropped so much is because they are selling units at "near fire sale prices".

It's rumoured that an argument about sales performance on the internet may have been resolved.

A group of people, who estimate they cut-and-pasted sections from every page of yearly financial statements in attempts to back up their prejudices with evidence, now count themselves friends.

“We finally settled our differences, agreed that we’d both learned a lot from each other, closed the thread and moved on.

“I hope it can teach others that arguing on the internet is completely worthwhile, as long as you never give up. Never.”

Schrodingers_cat Senior Member • Posts: 2,593
Because they make good stuff at reasonable prices ?

No text.

T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,430
Re: ↑ rise of YouTub Video + Sony A7 superior Low-light, Eye AF tracking
3

George1958 wrote:

I never had trouble with focus to begin with, so who needs a solution to a problem that does not exist?

I do shoot film, not all of the time. That is perhaps why I don't need a gimmick like eye focus, I learnt how to focus a camera myself.

When you strip back the obsession with tech, Sony does nothing that can't be done on any other modern cameras. The word ground breaking is over used and based on marginal differences that never find practical application in real world situations.

To be ground breaking you need to do something in the image that can not be achieved by another camera, so what is it? It is nothing.

Sony marketing captures more photographers that photographers capture images.

You sound ancient. Back in the early days of autofocus camera technology, we used to call people like you "retro-grouches." People like you scoffed at autofocus, autoexposure metering, image stabilization, etc.

I recommend you watch these demonstrations of Sony's focus capabilities:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62819051

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG37PzFSyKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyaOjhx_mK0

This is a level of performance that can't be done "on any other modern cameras." You may think this level of performance is a "gimmick" but for many modern users it means freedom and reliability to capture the images we want to capture.

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George1958 Contributing Member • Posts: 689
Re: ↑ rise of YouTub Video + Sony A7 superior Low-light, Eye AF tracking

It comes down to this, cameras capture images, people make art.

Cameras are therefore fairly dull devices until people interact with them and use them creatively.

Any fool can use eye focus to take a better portrait, but not every one can make it look like art.

Any fool can hold down the shutter and spray and pray  and pick out the best image, but not ever one can capture a piece of art

If you like ready meals and instant soup and low risk you will love your gadgets..

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(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,972
Re: ↑ rise of YouTub Video + Sony A7 superior Low-light, Eye AF tracking

T3 wrote:

George1958 wrote:

I never had trouble with focus to begin with, so who needs a solution to a problem that does not exist?

I do shoot film, not all of the time. That is perhaps why I don't need a gimmick like eye focus, I learnt how to focus a camera myself.

When you strip back the obsession with tech, Sony does nothing that can't be done on any other modern cameras. The word ground breaking is over used and based on marginal differences that never find practical application in real world situations.

To be ground breaking you need to do something in the image that can not be achieved by another camera, so what is it? It is nothing.

Sony marketing captures more photographers that photographers capture images.

You sound ancient. Back in the early days of autofocus camera technology, we used to call people like you "retro-grouches." People like you scoffed at autofocus, autoexposure metering, image stabilization, etc.

I recommend you watch these demonstrations of Sony's focus capabilities:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62819051

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG37PzFSyKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyaOjhx_mK0

This is a level of performance that can't be done "on any other modern cameras." You may think this level of performance is a "gimmick" but for many modern users it means freedom and reliability to capture the images we want to capture.

Internet debates can be won by simply inventing evidence, it has been confirmed.

I was asked for evidence and just provided random links to adverts on YouTube that my opponents couldn’t be bothered to check.

I don’t know why nobody thought of this before.

MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

George1958 wrote:

Hah hah, Nikon 1 was never ground breaking , only interesting

irrelevant to what you just posted, your exact words were: "we have more than 70 million handsets in the Uk alone"

to which I responded: "that doesn't explain why panasonic released an entirely new expensive ff milc lineup of bodies and lenses in 2019."

you have repeatedly failed to address that specific point.

MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: ↑ rise of YouTub Video + Sony A7 superior Low-light, Eye AF tracking

robblackett wrote:

T3 wrote:

George1958 wrote:

I never had trouble with focus to begin with, so who needs a solution to a problem that does not exist?

I do shoot film, not all of the time. That is perhaps why I don't need a gimmick like eye focus, I learnt how to focus a camera myself.

When you strip back the obsession with tech, Sony does nothing that can't be done on any other modern cameras. The word ground breaking is over used and based on marginal differences that never find practical application in real world situations.

To be ground breaking you need to do something in the image that can not be achieved by another camera, so what is it? It is nothing.

Sony marketing captures more photographers that photographers capture images.

You sound ancient. Back in the early days of autofocus camera technology, we used to call people like you "retro-grouches." People like you scoffed at autofocus, autoexposure metering, image stabilization, etc.

I recommend you watch these demonstrations of Sony's focus capabilities:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62819051

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG37PzFSyKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyaOjhx_mK0

This is a level of performance that can't be done "on any other modern cameras." You may think this level of performance is a "gimmick" but for many modern users it means freedom and reliability to capture the images we want to capture.

Internet debates can be won by simply inventing evidence, it has been confirmed.

I was asked for evidence and just provided random links to adverts on YouTube that my opponents couldn’t be bothered to check.

ignoring what people post isn't winning a debate, lol, it proves that you lost the debate.

claiming that good af isn't needed isn't winning a debate either.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,972
Re: ↑ rise of YouTub Video + Sony A7 superior Low-light, Eye AF tracking
1

MILC man wrote:

robblackett wrote:

T3 wrote:

George1958 wrote:

I never had trouble with focus to begin with, so who needs a solution to a problem that does not exist?

I do shoot film, not all of the time. That is perhaps why I don't need a gimmick like eye focus, I learnt how to focus a camera myself.

When you strip back the obsession with tech, Sony does nothing that can't be done on any other modern cameras. The word ground breaking is over used and based on marginal differences that never find practical application in real world situations.

To be ground breaking you need to do something in the image that can not be achieved by another camera, so what is it? It is nothing.

Sony marketing captures more photographers that photographers capture images.

You sound ancient. Back in the early days of autofocus camera technology, we used to call people like you "retro-grouches." People like you scoffed at autofocus, autoexposure metering, image stabilization, etc.

I recommend you watch these demonstrations of Sony's focus capabilities:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62819051

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG37PzFSyKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyaOjhx_mK0

This is a level of performance that can't be done "on any other modern cameras." You may think this level of performance is a "gimmick" but for many modern users it means freedom and reliability to capture the images we want to capture.

Internet debates can be won by simply inventing evidence, it has been confirmed.

I was asked for evidence and just provided random links to adverts on YouTube that my opponents couldn’t be bothered to check.

ignoring what people post isn't winning a debate, lol, it proves that you lost the debate.

Using "lol" probably isn't a substitute for non use of capital letters in a debate either.   

Having said that 'LMFAO’ or ‘ROFL’ are possibly acceptable variants if you should suddenly become somewhat self conscious about your grammar skills.

MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: ↑ rise of YouTub Video + Sony A7 superior Low-light, Eye AF tracking

robblackett wrote:

MILC man wrote:

robblackett wrote:

T3 wrote:

George1958 wrote:

I never had trouble with focus to begin with, so who needs a solution to a problem that does not exist?

I do shoot film, not all of the time. That is perhaps why I don't need a gimmick like eye focus, I learnt how to focus a camera myself.

When you strip back the obsession with tech, Sony does nothing that can't be done on any other modern cameras. The word ground breaking is over used and based on marginal differences that never find practical application in real world situations.

To be ground breaking you need to do something in the image that can not be achieved by another camera, so what is it? It is nothing.

Sony marketing captures more photographers that photographers capture images.

You sound ancient. Back in the early days of autofocus camera technology, we used to call people like you "retro-grouches." People like you scoffed at autofocus, autoexposure metering, image stabilization, etc.

I recommend you watch these demonstrations of Sony's focus capabilities:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62819051

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG37PzFSyKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyaOjhx_mK0

This is a level of performance that can't be done "on any other modern cameras." You may think this level of performance is a "gimmick" but for many modern users it means freedom and reliability to capture the images we want to capture.

Internet debates can be won by simply inventing evidence, it has been confirmed.

I was asked for evidence and just provided random links to adverts on YouTube that my opponents couldn’t be bothered to check.

ignoring what people post isn't winning a debate, lol, it proves that you lost the debate.

Using "lol" probably isn't a substitute for non use of capital letters in a debate either.

you abandoned any pretense of a debate long ago, with the most recent example being  when you failed to address the points that t3 made, claiming that it was "inventing evidence"

you already lost this debate, lol

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,972
Re: ↑ rise of YouTub Video + Sony A7 superior Low-light, Eye AF tracking

MILC man wrote:

robblackett wrote:

MILC man wrote:

robblackett wrote:

T3 wrote:

George1958 wrote:

I never had trouble with focus to begin with, so who needs a solution to a problem that does not exist?

I do shoot film, not all of the time. That is perhaps why I don't need a gimmick like eye focus, I learnt how to focus a camera myself.

When you strip back the obsession with tech, Sony does nothing that can't be done on any other modern cameras. The word ground breaking is over used and based on marginal differences that never find practical application in real world situations.

To be ground breaking you need to do something in the image that can not be achieved by another camera, so what is it? It is nothing.

Sony marketing captures more photographers that photographers capture images.

You sound ancient. Back in the early days of autofocus camera technology, we used to call people like you "retro-grouches." People like you scoffed at autofocus, autoexposure metering, image stabilization, etc.

I recommend you watch these demonstrations of Sony's focus capabilities:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62819051

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG37PzFSyKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyaOjhx_mK0

This is a level of performance that can't be done "on any other modern cameras." You may think this level of performance is a "gimmick" but for many modern users it means freedom and reliability to capture the images we want to capture.

Internet debates can be won by simply inventing evidence, it has been confirmed.

I was asked for evidence and just provided random links to adverts on YouTube that my opponents couldn’t be bothered to check.

ignoring what people post isn't winning a debate, lol, it proves that you lost the debate.

Using "lol" probably isn't a substitute for non use of capital letters in a debate either.

you abandoned any pretense of a debate long ago, with the most recent example being when you failed to address the points that t3 made, claiming that it was "inventing evidence"

I didn't actually. If you read my post I said "I was asked for evidence and just provided random links to adverts on YouTube that my opponents couldn’t be bothered to check." You kind of missed the tongue in cheek aspect of that but nevertheless I apologise and I'll use an emoji next time to make it totally obvious.

you already lost this debate, lol

"lol" isn't a substitute for a full stop either, although the way some are going with English it probably will render punctuation obsolete.

Oh sorry, I nearly forgot -

MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 3,345
Re: ↑ rise of YouTub Video + Sony A7 superior Low-light, Eye AF tracking

robblackett wrote:

MILC man wrote:

robblackett wrote:

MILC man wrote:

robblackett wrote:

T3 wrote:

George1958 wrote:

I never had trouble with focus to begin with, so who needs a solution to a problem that does not exist?

I do shoot film, not all of the time. That is perhaps why I don't need a gimmick like eye focus, I learnt how to focus a camera myself.

When you strip back the obsession with tech, Sony does nothing that can't be done on any other modern cameras. The word ground breaking is over used and based on marginal differences that never find practical application in real world situations.

To be ground breaking you need to do something in the image that can not be achieved by another camera, so what is it? It is nothing.

Sony marketing captures more photographers that photographers capture images.

You sound ancient. Back in the early days of autofocus camera technology, we used to call people like you "retro-grouches." People like you scoffed at autofocus, autoexposure metering, image stabilization, etc.

I recommend you watch these demonstrations of Sony's focus capabilities:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62819051

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG37PzFSyKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyaOjhx_mK0

This is a level of performance that can't be done "on any other modern cameras." You may think this level of performance is a "gimmick" but for many modern users it means freedom and reliability to capture the images we want to capture.

Internet debates can be won by simply inventing evidence, it has been confirmed.

I was asked for evidence and just provided random links to adverts on YouTube that my opponents couldn’t be bothered to check.

ignoring what people post isn't winning a debate, lol, it proves that you lost the debate.

Using "lol" probably isn't a substitute for non use of capital letters in a debate either.

you abandoned any pretense of a debate long ago, with the most recent example being when you failed to address the points that t3 made, claiming that it was "inventing evidence"

I didn't actually.

trying to be clever and irrelevant in your responses doesn't win debates, lol

George1958 Contributing Member • Posts: 689
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

let me help, if you have a ready market of 70 million users, many of whom are on 18 month contracts and upgrade their smartphones, that is called a volume sale. Extrapolate that to global sales and.......................

If half a million people bought Panasonics new FF it would be a real threat to Sony, but it is small beer all the same and likely will not come even close.

The ship has gone down, and the only room is in a hand full of life boats.

 George1958's gear list:George1958's gear list
Sigma DP1s Sigma SD15 Olympus PEN E-P3 Canon EOS 6D Canon EOS 7D Mark II +7 more
(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 1,972
Re: ↑ rise of YouTub Video + Sony A7 superior Low-light, Eye AF tracking

MILC man wrote:

robblackett wrote:

MILC man wrote:

robblackett wrote:

MILC man wrote:

robblackett wrote:

T3 wrote:

George1958 wrote:

I never had trouble with focus to begin with, so who needs a solution to a problem that does not exist?

I do shoot film, not all of the time. That is perhaps why I don't need a gimmick like eye focus, I learnt how to focus a camera myself.

When you strip back the obsession with tech, Sony does nothing that can't be done on any other modern cameras. The word ground breaking is over used and based on marginal differences that never find practical application in real world situations.

To be ground breaking you need to do something in the image that can not be achieved by another camera, so what is it? It is nothing.

Sony marketing captures more photographers that photographers capture images.

You sound ancient. Back in the early days of autofocus camera technology, we used to call people like you "retro-grouches." People like you scoffed at autofocus, autoexposure metering, image stabilization, etc.

I recommend you watch these demonstrations of Sony's focus capabilities:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/62819051

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG37PzFSyKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyaOjhx_mK0

This is a level of performance that can't be done "on any other modern cameras." You may think this level of performance is a "gimmick" but for many modern users it means freedom and reliability to capture the images we want to capture.

Internet debates can be won by simply inventing evidence, it has been confirmed.

I was asked for evidence and just provided random links to adverts on YouTube that my opponents couldn’t be bothered to check.

ignoring what people post isn't winning a debate, lol, it proves that you lost the debate.

Using "lol" probably isn't a substitute for non use of capital letters in a debate either.

you abandoned any pretense of a debate long ago, with the most recent example being when you failed to address the points that t3 made, claiming that it was "inventing evidence"

I didn't actually.

trying to be clever and irrelevant in your responses doesn't win debates, lol

You need to win debates then?  😉

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