Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

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holashobby Regular Member • Posts: 245
Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
1

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets, as least not in Europe as far I as can see. Furthermore, in Europe, the A7MK3 and indeed the MK2 are more heavily discounted in Europe compared to the US, leading me to speculate that these models are not selling nearly as well there as they are in the US.

Looking at recent Sony events, their marketing seems geared towards this reality as their latest camera, A6400 and high profile functionality updates were announced in California and not Japan, their home market.

Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

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ZodiacPhoto
ZodiacPhoto Senior Member • Posts: 2,550
They were the first...
7

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets, as least not in Europe as far I as can see. Furthermore, in Europe, the A7MK3 and indeed the MK2 are more heavily discounted in Europe compared to the US, leading me to speculate that these models are not selling nearly as well there as they are in the US.

Looking at recent Sony events, their marketing seems geared towards this reality as their latest camera, A6400 and high profile functionality updates were announced in California and not Japan, their home market.

Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

They offered the first FF mirrorless system, and by the time Canon, Nikon, and Panasonic entered the game, Sony had 3 generations of bodies, and very comprehensive lens lineup, also supported by aftermarket.

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ZodiacPhoto
ZodiacPhoto Senior Member • Posts: 2,550
Also...

ZodiacPhoto wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets, as least not in Europe as far I as can see. Furthermore, in Europe, the A7MK3 and indeed the MK2 are more heavily discounted in Europe compared to the US, leading me to speculate that these models are not selling nearly as well there as they are in the US.

Looking at recent Sony events, their marketing seems geared towards this reality as their latest camera, A6400 and high profile functionality updates were announced in California and not Japan, their home market.

Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

They offered the first FF mirrorless system, and by the time Canon, Nikon, and Panasonic entered the game, Sony had 3 generations of bodies, and very comprehensive lens lineup, also supported by aftermarket.

Perhaps, people in Japan and Europe buy more M4/3 and APS-C cameras, comparing to the USA. Canon is offering their APS-C mirrorless for a while, but I never seen one in human's hands, really... only on the store shelves. And in Japan, it is one of the most popular systems.

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Jonsi
Jonsi Senior Member • Posts: 3,717
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

holashobby wrote:

Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

While they weren't the first mirrorless cameras they were the first to focus solely on ML while the big names dabbled but found people were more interested in DSLRs.

Now they are starting to focus more on mirrorless, but hopefully that doesn't mean they'll drop DSLRs.

T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,419
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
3

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets, as least not in Europe as far I as can see. Furthermore, in Europe, the A7MK3 and indeed the MK2 are more heavily discounted in Europe compared to the US, leading me to speculate that these models are not selling nearly as well there as they are in the US.

I guess it depends on what part of Europe you are talking about:

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-surpassed-canon-and-nikon-in-the-german-full-frame-market/

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Aberaeron Veteran Member • Posts: 7,320
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
1

Jonsi wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

While they weren't the first mirrorless cameras they were the first to focus solely on ML while the big names dabbled but found people were more interested in DSLRs.

Now they are starting to focus more on mirrorless, but hopefully that doesn't mean they'll drop DSLRs.

They are NOT solely focussed on mirrorless though. They have the translucent mirror range of cameras which are well established and have plodded along for years. They 'added' mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras to their range and it now way outsells the translucent fixed mirror range of DSLR cameras they offer.

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OP holashobby Regular Member • Posts: 245
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
1

T3 wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets, as least not in Europe as far I as can see. Furthermore, in Europe, the A7MK3 and indeed the MK2 are more heavily discounted in Europe compared to the US, leading me to speculate that these models are not selling nearly as well there as they are in the US.

I guess it depends on what part of Europe you are talking about:

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-surpassed-canon-and-nikon-in-the-german-full-frame-market/

Look at the US numbers and you will see what I mean, the US Amazon top 10 bestseller is dominates by Sony FF and APS-C models, not so Germany even though they have leading position. Lastly, the link you posted is over three years old! And based on data that is over four years old!

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sybersitizen Forum Pro • Posts: 13,108
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
5

Aberaeron wrote:

Jonsi wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets ... Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

While they weren't the first mirrorless cameras they were the first to focus solely on ML while the big names dabbled but found people were more interested in DSLRs.

Now they are starting to focus more on mirrorless, but hopefully that doesn't mean they'll drop DSLRs.

They are NOT solely focussed on mirrorless though. They have the translucent mirror range of cameras which are well established and have plodded along for years. They 'added' mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras to their range and it now way outsells the translucent fixed mirror range of DSLR cameras they offer.

The OP's question is about a perceived difference in Sony's 'dominance' regarding the US mirrorless market vs. other mirrorless markets based on Amazon's sales data. Replies about mirrorless dominance in general don't address regional differences.

Such regional differences observed by the OP might be mainly attributable to Amazon's dominance in the US compared to elsewhere.

T3 Forum Pro • Posts: 21,419
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
1

holashobby wrote:

T3 wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets, as least not in Europe as far I as can see. Furthermore, in Europe, the A7MK3 and indeed the MK2 are more heavily discounted in Europe compared to the US, leading me to speculate that these models are not selling nearly as well there as they are in the US.

I guess it depends on what part of Europe you are talking about:

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-surpassed-canon-and-nikon-in-the-german-full-frame-market/

Look at the US numbers and you will see what I mean, the US Amazon top 10 bestseller is dominates by Sony FF and APS-C models, not so Germany even though they have leading position. Lastly, the link you posted is over three years old! And based on data that is over four years old!

Go to Amazon Germany, or UK, or wherever else in Europe and pull up their best sellers list. Tell us what you see. This is what it looks like in the US:

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Mirrorless-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011

Also, some places in the world are more progressive than others, and this applies to technology as well. Some places are more conservative. It could just be that some places in Europe are a lot more conservative and slower to change when it comes to camera technology or brands.

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Jonsi
Jonsi Senior Member • Posts: 3,717
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
2

Aberaeron wrote:

Jonsi wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

While they weren't the first mirrorless cameras they were the first to focus solely on ML while the big names dabbled but found people were more interested in DSLRs.

Now they are starting to focus more on mirrorless, but hopefully that doesn't mean they'll drop DSLRs.

They are NOT solely focussed on mirrorless though. They have the translucent mirror range of cameras which are well established and have plodded along for years. They 'added' mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras to their range and it now way outsells the translucent fixed mirror range of DSLR cameras they offer.

I should have said mostly, not solely.

I forgot earbuds and TVs.

Aberaeron Veteran Member • Posts: 7,320
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

sybersitizen wrote:

Aberaeron wrote:

Jonsi wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets ... Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

While they weren't the first mirrorless cameras they were the first to focus solely on ML while the big names dabbled but found people were more interested in DSLRs.

Now they are starting to focus more on mirrorless, but hopefully that doesn't mean they'll drop DSLRs.

They are NOT solely focussed on mirrorless though. They have the translucent mirror range of cameras which are well established and have plodded along for years. They 'added' mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras to their range and it now way outsells the translucent fixed mirror range of DSLR cameras they offer.

The OP's question is about a perceived difference in Sony's 'dominance' regarding the US mirrorless market vs. other mirrorless markets based on Amazon's sales data. Replies about mirrorless dominance in general don't address regional differences.

Such regional differences observed by the OP might be mainly attributable to Amazon's dominance in the US compared to elsewhere.

That was my answer to Jonsi not to the OP.

The following is my answer and question to the OP and yourself...

I do not believe that there is a big regional difference. Amazon figures. How do they relate to actual sales? Do they show a big regional difference in fact? Certainly in the UK, Sony seem to be selling full frame mirrorless cameras at a prodigious rate at the moment, considering that sales of all cameras are down compared to previous years.

Has anyone actually posted the figures? I know that some figures for Germany have been posted and that previously I believe it was an article on DPR that indicated that Sony full frame sales amounted to more than all other brand's full frame sales added together. If that is the case, someone must be buying them somewhere.

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tbcass
tbcass Forum Pro • Posts: 42,792
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

Jonsi wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

While they weren't the first mirrorless cameras they were the first to focus solely on ML

Not true because Sony has been producing SLT cameras with mirrors at the same time as mirrorless. It is true that the focus has been on mirrorless with SLT getting trickle down technology.

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Tom

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OP holashobby Regular Member • Posts: 245
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

Aberaeron wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

Aberaeron wrote:

Jonsi wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets ... Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

While they weren't the first mirrorless cameras they were the first to focus solely on ML while the big names dabbled but found people were more interested in DSLRs.

Now they are starting to focus more on mirrorless, but hopefully that doesn't mean they'll drop DSLRs.

They are NOT solely focussed on mirrorless though. They have the translucent mirror range of cameras which are well established and have plodded along for years. They 'added' mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras to their range and it now way outsells the translucent fixed mirror range of DSLR cameras they offer.

The OP's question is about a perceived difference in Sony's 'dominance' regarding the US mirrorless market vs. other mirrorless markets based on Amazon's sales data. Replies about mirrorless dominance in general don't address regional differences.

Such regional differences observed by the OP might be mainly attributable to Amazon's dominance in the US compared to elsewhere.

That was my answer to Jonsi not to the OP.

The following is my answer and question to the OP and yourself...

I do not believe that there is a big regional difference. Amazon figures. How do they relate to actual sales? Do they show a big regional difference in fact? Certainly in the UK, Sony seem to be selling full frame mirrorless cameras at a prodigious rate at the moment, considering that sales of all cameras are down compared to previous years.

Has anyone actually posted the figures? I know that some figures for Germany have been posted and that previously I believe it was an article on DPR that indicated that Sony full frame sales amounted to more than all other brand's full frame sales added together. If that is the case, someone must be buying them somewhere.

Using Amazon bestseller lists as proxy, there are regional sales differences, Sony is doing much better in the US than the UK for example, better in Germany, but not nearly as good as their sales position in the US.

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sybersitizen Forum Pro • Posts: 13,108
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
5

holashobby wrote:

Aberaeron wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

Aberaeron wrote:

Jonsi wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets ... Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

While they weren't the first mirrorless cameras they were the first to focus solely on ML while the big names dabbled but found people were more interested in DSLRs.

Now they are starting to focus more on mirrorless, but hopefully that doesn't mean they'll drop DSLRs.

They are NOT solely focussed on mirrorless though. They have the translucent mirror range of cameras which are well established and have plodded along for years. They 'added' mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras to their range and it now way outsells the translucent fixed mirror range of DSLR cameras they offer.

The OP's question is about a perceived difference in Sony's 'dominance' regarding the US mirrorless market vs. other mirrorless markets based on Amazon's sales data. Replies about mirrorless dominance in general don't address regional differences.

Such regional differences observed by the OP might be mainly attributable to Amazon's dominance in the US compared to elsewhere.

That was my answer to Jonsi not to the OP.

The following is my answer and question to the OP and yourself...

I do not believe that there is a big regional difference. Amazon figures. How do they relate to actual sales? Do they show a big regional difference in fact? Certainly in the UK, Sony seem to be selling full frame mirrorless cameras at a prodigious rate at the moment, considering that sales of all cameras are down compared to previous years.

Has anyone actually posted the figures? I know that some figures for Germany have been posted and that previously I believe it was an article on DPR that indicated that Sony full frame sales amounted to more than all other brand's full frame sales added together. If that is the case, someone must be buying them somewhere.

Using Amazon bestseller lists as proxy, there are regional sales differences, Sony is doing much better in the US than the UK for example, better in Germany, but not nearly as good as their sales position in the US.

You have to include sellers other than Amazon to understand the worldwide market because Amazon is not the only seller, and is not necessarily chosen by the same percentage of buyers worldwide.

Aberaeron Veteran Member • Posts: 7,320
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
1

holashobby wrote:

Aberaeron wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

Aberaeron wrote:

Jonsi wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets ... Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

While they weren't the first mirrorless cameras they were the first to focus solely on ML while the big names dabbled but found people were more interested in DSLRs.

Now they are starting to focus more on mirrorless, but hopefully that doesn't mean they'll drop DSLRs.

They are NOT solely focussed on mirrorless though. They have the translucent mirror range of cameras which are well established and have plodded along for years. They 'added' mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras to their range and it now way outsells the translucent fixed mirror range of DSLR cameras they offer.

The OP's question is about a perceived difference in Sony's 'dominance' regarding the US mirrorless market vs. other mirrorless markets based on Amazon's sales data. Replies about mirrorless dominance in general don't address regional differences.

Such regional differences observed by the OP might be mainly attributable to Amazon's dominance in the US compared to elsewhere.

That was my answer to Jonsi not to the OP.

The following is my answer and question to the OP and yourself...

I do not believe that there is a big regional difference. Amazon figures. How do they relate to actual sales? Do they show a big regional difference in fact? Certainly in the UK, Sony seem to be selling full frame mirrorless cameras at a prodigious rate at the moment, considering that sales of all cameras are down compared to previous years.

Has anyone actually posted the figures? I know that some figures for Germany have been posted and that previously I believe it was an article on DPR that indicated that Sony full frame sales amounted to more than all other brand's full frame sales added together. If that is the case, someone must be buying them somewhere.

Using Amazon bestseller lists as proxy, there are regional sales differences, Sony is doing much better in the US than the UK for example, better in Germany, but not nearly as good as their sales position in the US.

I strongly suspect that UK sales of high end cameras such as the A7 range are not strong through Amazon. Most are probably sold through camera shops where people can see and hold them. Could be wrong of course.

I do believe that mirrorless sales  are far stronger relative to DSLR's in the UK and Europe than in the US and even Asia generally. Having said that, they have a way to catch up with the DSLR's I see on the streets. Asian visitors to the UK almost universally carry a DSLR, mostly entry level APSC, and also a smartphone or even iPad for selfies etc.

That is purely my observation, not a scientific study. Others may observe different patterns where they are.

However, for the figures, I would not use Amazon's figures because I don't know whether they are accurate. For instance, DPR 'Most Popular Cameras' figures, and considering that DPR is owned by Amazon, are I believe based on search or review visitor clicks, not actual sales. Have a look to the right of the screen for these figures.

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Aberaeron Veteran Member • Posts: 7,320
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market

sybersitizen wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Aberaeron wrote:

sybersitizen wrote:

Aberaeron wrote:

Jonsi wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets ... Out of curiosity, how did Sony build such a dominant position in the US market?

While they weren't the first mirrorless cameras they were the first to focus solely on ML while the big names dabbled but found people were more interested in DSLRs.

Now they are starting to focus more on mirrorless, but hopefully that doesn't mean they'll drop DSLRs.

They are NOT solely focussed on mirrorless though. They have the translucent mirror range of cameras which are well established and have plodded along for years. They 'added' mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras to their range and it now way outsells the translucent fixed mirror range of DSLR cameras they offer.

The OP's question is about a perceived difference in Sony's 'dominance' regarding the US mirrorless market vs. other mirrorless markets based on Amazon's sales data. Replies about mirrorless dominance in general don't address regional differences.

Such regional differences observed by the OP might be mainly attributable to Amazon's dominance in the US compared to elsewhere.

That was my answer to Jonsi not to the OP.

The following is my answer and question to the OP and yourself...

I do not believe that there is a big regional difference. Amazon figures. How do they relate to actual sales? Do they show a big regional difference in fact? Certainly in the UK, Sony seem to be selling full frame mirrorless cameras at a prodigious rate at the moment, considering that sales of all cameras are down compared to previous years.

Has anyone actually posted the figures? I know that some figures for Germany have been posted and that previously I believe it was an article on DPR that indicated that Sony full frame sales amounted to more than all other brand's full frame sales added together. If that is the case, someone must be buying them somewhere.

Using Amazon bestseller lists as proxy, there are regional sales differences, Sony is doing much better in the US than the UK for example, better in Germany, but not nearly as good as their sales position in the US.

You have to include sellers other than Amazon to understand the worldwide market because Amazon is not the only seller, and is not necessarily chosen by the same percentage of buyers worldwide.

It is not even active in many countries. However, in the UK it is very active indeed and the UK spending  on-line per capita exceeds that of the USA. However I doubt whether that holds true to high end camera sales. I suspect that only a tiny percentage of full frame cameras are sold on-line and certainly through Amazon UK.

Globally, Sony seem to be accelerating ahead of the pack in full frame cameras for the moment. That may or may not last of course and the two traditional dominant brands are certainly beginning to push back with their recently introduced full frame mirrorless models. It is early days for this expanding market as yet, with Panasonic also entering the arena just now. Panasonic are unlikely to take a massive slice with their current very high end model, but should they soon introduce an entry level full frame, based on their M4/3 experience, do expect them to make a big splash.

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner Forum Pro • Posts: 20,497
Might be misleading to look at Amazon only
5

holashobby wrote:

T3 wrote:

holashobby wrote:

Based off the US Amazon best seller list, it looks like Sony has a very dominant market position in the US mirrorless market, but that dominance is not replicated in other large markets, as least not in Europe as far I as can see. Furthermore, in Europe, the A7MK3 and indeed the MK2 are more heavily discounted in Europe compared to the US, leading me to speculate that these models are not selling nearly as well there as they are in the US.

I guess it depends on what part of Europe you are talking about:

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-surpassed-canon-and-nikon-in-the-german-full-frame-market/

Look at the US numbers and you will see what I mean, the US Amazon top 10 bestseller is dominates by Sony FF and APS-C models, not so Germany even though they have leading position. Lastly, the link you posted is over three years old! And based on data that is over four years old!

It could be the case (in fact I would say probably is the case) that German buyers are more prone to buy expensive electronic devices like cameras from places other than Amazon...

In fact even in the U.S. I would say the results could very well be skewed, as more consumer oriented buyers would purchase from Amazon but more serious photographers will often purchase from Adorama or BHPhoto for better support.

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Fregoli
Fregoli Regular Member • Posts: 195
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
1

These are only guesses, but for one, I'd say Sony's better at marketing.

I have seen some of those Canon and Nikon product announcements and press releases that come out in Japan, and they don't look as if they were designed with any western audience in mind.

Apart from that, there are the cameras themselves. I think there's a general feeling that DSLRs are passé and Sony's been churning out prominent full-frame mirrorless for a few years now, whereas Canon and Nikon has only just jumped into the game with moderately weak offerings.

Could another factor be prestige? Sony TVs are certainly regarded as luxury goods, but there are a lot of junk rebels and entry-level d3xxx's Canikons floating around that might dilute the prestige factor for Canikon.

zephyrprime Regular Member • Posts: 169
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
2

How do you know they are not selling sell in europe? I googled and found no information on any european sales. However, I am in the US so my google results will be bias towards usa information.

Hmm...I took a quick look at amazon.fr and it does show that the Nikon Z6 is much more popular there than either the sony or the canon ff mirrorless cameras. Only the Nikon z6 even ranks in the top 100 best sellers. https://www.amazon.fr/gp/bestsellers/electronics/14059661/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_electronics

Fregoli
Fregoli Regular Member • Posts: 195
Re: Why does Sony have such a dominant market position in the US market
4

zephyrprime wrote:

How do you know they are not selling sell in europe? I googled and found no information on any european sales. However, I am in the US so my google results will be bias towards usa information.

Hmm...I took a quick look at amazon.fr and it does show that the Nikon Z6 is much more popular there than either the sony or the canon ff mirrorless cameras. Only the Nikon z6 even ranks in the top 100 best sellers. https://www.amazon.fr/gp/bestsellers/electronics/14059661/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_electronics

But your link takes us to photo reflex numériques, which are digital SLRs.

The proper link is probably this: https://www.amazon.fr/gp/bestsellers/electronics/342795031/ref=zg_bs_unv_ce_3_14059661_1/258-0397525-4916144

There, the only serious Nikon in the top 50 is the D7200 and for canon, the 6DII. Sony has the A7II, A7III

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