RAW DR (M5)...

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Waldemar Senior Member • Posts: 1,500
RAW DR (M5)...

I don´t know, but owning the M5 and the Nikon D750, it´s not as clearcut as it seems (according to tests).

What I´ve found, Canon´s own converter DPP can´t recover as much shadow detail as other converters, quite simply because the slider for the shadow push doesn´t go far enough. This is rather puzzling.

Yesterday I did many shots with-2 and -3 EV exposure to get decent sunstars and only with Luminar - not with the DPP - could I lift the shadows to the desired degree. But the result after the lift was totally o.k., so the DR is actually pretty good (Canon M5, same sensor as SL2, D80 etc.). I shot in the early evening with F22 and don´t know right know, what Auto ISO had dialed in.

The D750 may have even more DR, but I don´t see the relevance, as a -3 EV exposure is already pretty extreme, large parts of the pictures were totally black before the shadow lift in post. Maybe if one wants for a result that looks like a HDR shot, which I really dislike and never aim for.

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Ben Herrmann
Ben Herrmann Forum Pro • Posts: 20,480
Wow...I don't know how to begin..
2

OK - so in general if you are shooting at -2 to -3 EV, and then try to lift the shadows (and some hi-lights) within a RAW converter - that could become a pretty tall order.

I personally don't use DPP, although I have it installed (I'm a software freak, can't help it).  If I shot the way you did, even in Lightroom I'd most likely have issues bringing up the shadows without running out of slider room (or with the noise involved at that low an EV offset).

And why are you shooting at F22 (that is, with the M5)?  Diffraction at that point would take a huge toll on your sharpness levels, I would imagine.

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OP Waldemar Senior Member • Posts: 1,500
Re: Wow...I don't know how to begin..
2

Ben Herrmann wrote:

OK - so in general if you are shooting at -2 to -3 EV, and then try to lift the shadows (and some hi-lights) within a RAW converter - that could become a pretty tall order.

I personally don't use DPP, although I have it installed (I'm a software freak, can't help it). If I shot the way you did, even in Lightroom I'd most likely have issues bringing up the shadows without running out of slider room (or with the noise involved at that low an EV offset).

And why are you shooting at F22 (that is, with the M5)? Diffraction at that point would take a huge toll on your sharpness levels, I would imagine.

As I said, I was trying to get good looking sunstars.

Usually you get the best sunstars when you stop down the lens quite a lot. Also you need a lens with an uneven number of aperture blades.

Most if not all modern lenses have rounded blades and don´t make decent sunstars, whatever the F-stop.

The Canon 15-85mm is a notable exception, it makes very pointy and well defined sunstars at F22 (see below).

The F2.8/16-35mm II is also pretty famous for sunstars, but I don´t have that (yet).

Besides the F22, sunstars are better defined, if you underexpose the shot by -2 or -3 EV (and lift the shadows in post). This way you keep the overexposed area as small as possible, which gives the sunstar a sharp and well defined look.

This is a science in itself :-).

Try it out (if you like sunstars, that is).

But I don´t generally shoot with -2 or -3 EV.

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Advi
Advi Regular Member • Posts: 111
Gamma adjustment
1

Have you already tried Gamma adjustment?

Move these 3 sliders left and right.

Check if it helps.

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OP Waldemar Senior Member • Posts: 1,500
Re: Gamma adjustment
1

Advi wrote:

Have you already tried Gamma adjustment?

Move these 3 sliders left and right.

Check if it helps.

Thank you. I´ll try that.

I sometimes underexpose by a stop to retain a blue sky and avoid using a polarize filter. Also Luminar needs some blue in the sky for the Ai sky filter to work.

With a -2 or -3 EV exposure I don´t pull back the shadows all the way, that would make  the shot look unnatural. I just brighten them until the darker areas show some detail, that´s maybe a +1 EV push for the shadows. So noise is not really a problem.

What I meant was that even more DR is probably needed only, if you want the HDR look.

The shot below (with the D750, but that doesn´t matter, it would have worked with the M5 as well) is a typical example.  It was made with a -1 or -2 EV (I´d have to look that up) to retain a blue sky for the later conversion to black & white. The shadows were lifted moderately in post to get some detail back.

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filibuster
filibuster Veteran Member • Posts: 3,944
Minus 2 and minus 3?

The examples you posted are nothing like the extremes of minus 2 or minus 3 EC. The grey scale is minus 2/3rds of a stop. The other minus 1. Perhaps that is what you meant?

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R2D2 Forum Pro • Posts: 19,184
Re: RAW DR (M5)...

Agree that sunstars and other specular highlights can be pretty darn cool (esp when you’ve produced them yourself ).

In DPP, have you tried making adjustments directly on the histogram? (in addition to the standard shadows etc sliders).

You can not only move the low, mid, and high controls, but also push/pull the top and bottom “edges” to set your black and white points.

Best of luck!

R2

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OP Waldemar Senior Member • Posts: 1,500
Re: Minus 2 and minus 3?

filibuster wrote:

The examples you posted are nothing like the extremes of minus 2 or minus 3 EC. The grey scale is minus 2/3rds of a stop. The other minus 1. Perhaps that is what you meant?

That´s right, but last Sunday I had to use - 2 and -3 EV to get sharp and pointy sunstars with the M5 and the 15-85mm, shooting in a park.

I just haven´t uploaded these pics to my gallery yet as sunstars are probably not such a great idea shooting in a natural habitate (park). Seems like they contribute more to the shot in modern architectural surroundings or "over the top" shots (like the one in Palma de Mallorca). I´ll upoad them tonight and post them later on.

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OP Waldemar Senior Member • Posts: 1,500
Re: RAW DR (M5)...

Below are -2 and -3 EV shots. Even more DR would only be needed for an HDR look - the second (processed) shot is on the brink there -, but actually I could have lifted the shadows a lot more than I finally did.

Sunstars are not really the thing with subjects like this, but the 15-85 sure makes some good ones. It´s also very flare resistant (you see some flare on the third pic, but I´ll fix that with Affinity).

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-3 EV after shadow lift

-3 EV OOC

-2 EV after shadow lift

-2 EV OOC

-2 EV after shadow lift

-2 EV OOC

-3 EV after shadow lift

-3 EV, OOC

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