Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Ernie Misner
Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 5,189
Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?

Does the 200mm micro lens work with a Z body?  I'm thinking it doesn't if it's screw drive?   I'm still using my D810 and getting good close ups (not macro of course) with my 70-200E but I have long wanted a macro lens in the 150-200 range.  I doubt if the Sigma's will work with a Z when I go mirrorless either.  So still hoping for an updated 200 micro lens from Nikon before too long.  Is that totally unrealistic?

-- hide signature --

Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
"I bet we'll find hints of extraterrestrial life before 2030" - Jamie Shreeve, Popular Science

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm F4G ED VR +6 more
Nikon D810
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 17,614
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?
1

The 200mm AF-D is optically as good on a Z7 as on a D850

As you note on Z you loose AF - but gain IBIS.

This lens is a 1993 introduction making it a quarter of a century old optically 

In consequence AF is a long way from fast by current standards and is also quite noisy.

When working from a tripod (or monopod) AF may not be needed.

IMO Nikon does not currently have a first class convenient to use macro as the 105 VR does not have a tripod collar and the 200 can show its age

Do independent 180 macro lenses have a tripod collar, VR equivalent as a bonus and work on Z?

Right now I am experiment with the 70-200 f4 and the 300 PF, each with theTC-14 E.

While these combination falls short of 1:1 the 70-200 + TC seems to produce better out of focus backgrounds than the 200 D. As yet no good comparisons of the lenses due to poor weather.

An "OK" shot taken with the 200mm macro using MF on a monopod on Saturday.

-- hide signature --

Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than the equipment being used.

 Leonard Shepherd's gear list:Leonard Shepherd's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D7200 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 Nikon Z7 +24 more
Michael Benveniste
Michael Benveniste Veteran Member • Posts: 4,638
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?
1

Ernie Misner wrote:

I doubt if the Sigma's will work with a Z when I go mirrorless either.

Sigma lists both its 150mm and 180mm lenses as compatible with the Z7:

https://www.sigmaphoto.com/article/nikon-z-compatibility-10-26-2018/

Whether that remains true over time and firmware upgrades is anyone's guess.

So still hoping for an updated 200 micro lens from Nikon before too long. Is that totally unrealistic?

People have been expecting an updated 200 "before too long" for at least a decade.  On average, Nikon sells fewer than 100 a month, so I don't think it's very high on their priority list, but no one here really knows.

-- hide signature --

Light travels at 2.13085531 × 10^14 smoots per fortnight. Catch some today!

 Michael Benveniste's gear list:Michael Benveniste's gear list
Nikon Coolpix 995 Nikon D200 Nikon D800 Nikon 1 V2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 +40 more
copyfall Regular Member • Posts: 216
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?
1

If Nikon updates 200macro I will definitely buy one.  I do not think they will. Currently I use 200mm macro on Z7. There is no AF so I can not use it against mobile subjects. Before buying 200mm macro I researched Sigma lenses and they  are heavier than Nikon 200macro.

 copyfall's gear list:copyfall's gear list
Nikon Z7 Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 200mm f/4D ED-IF Sigma 135mm F1.8 Art Nikon 500mm F5.6E PF Nikon Z 24-70mm F4
BillW1204 Regular Member • Posts: 105
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?
1

I would love to see an update too.  Currently using the Nikon 70-180 mm micro, also a D version that will not autofocus on the Z cameras.  I would also love to see an update of that lens.

If Nikon updates either lens, I wonder whether it will be for the F mount or the Z mount?

Ernie Misner
OP Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 5,189
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

The 200mm AF-D is optically as good on a Z7 as on a D850

As you note on Z you loose AF - but gain IBIS.

This lens is a 1993 introduction making it a quarter of a century old optically

In consequence AF is a long way from fast by current standards and is also quite noisy.

When working from a tripod (or monopod) AF may not be needed.

IMO Nikon does not currently have a first class convenient to use macro as the 105 VR does not have a tripod collar and the 200 can show its age

Do independent 180 macro lenses have a tripod collar, VR equivalent as a bonus and work on Z?

Right now I am experiment with the 70-200 f4 and the 300 PF, each with theTC-14 E.

Or how about with a tube and no optics in it? Way to go experimenting with those. Thanks and keep us posted.
A nice macro using the monopod.   Have you tried one with the feet?  My monopods are never stable rotationally it seems like.

While these combination falls short of 1:1 the 70-200 + TC seems to produce better out of focus backgrounds than the 200 D. As yet no good comparisons of the lenses due to poor weather.

An "OK" shot taken with the 200mm macro using MF on a monopod on Saturday.

-- hide signature --

Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
"I bet we'll find hints of extraterrestrial life before 2030" - Jamie Shreeve, Popular Science

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm F4G ED VR +6 more
Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 17,614
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?
1

Ernie Misner wrote:

Or how about with a tube and no optics in it? Way to go experimenting with those. Thanks and keep us posted.

On and off topic - AF or MF for macro?

My preferred choice is MF with a tripod and little wind (a challenge outdoor in the UK) - because MF enable me to choose the precise point of focus - as on the centre of the largest flower in the images below.

For flying insects AF, perhaps combined with "spray and pray" for tiny insects, and maybe as few as 1 in 20 shots OK is the way some photographers prefer work.

Nikon gives us choices - leaving each photographer to decide which and when.

The first challenge is there are no currently in production qualitytubes to fit Nikon which fully support metering etc

The Kenko (Nikon and Canon), particularly stacking the 3 tubes, do not hold the taking lens flange parallel to the sensor - even with a lightweight Z body

The discontinued Nikon PN-11is a single high quality tube with the bonus of a tripod collar but no AF electric contacts. It works on a DSLR with lenses with an aperture ring with some metering options.

Canon make a set of Canon fit tubes - for around £600.

Modern lenses are better than older designs at bringing R, G & B colour into focus in the same plane at the sensor.

Many recent lenses are designed with a constant lens flange to sensor distance. Introducing tubes is likely to mess up the R, G and B alignment at the sensor plane.

Using Kenko tubes with the 70-200 f4 and 300 PF seems to mirror this probability in that with several tube extension AF "ticks", though MF is OK. This might be because AF does not detect colour and may still detect one of the 3 primaries if it is out of focus.

A problem factor with the Z7 AF, is the Kenko tubes and the 70-300, 300 PF and 200-500 is an often viewfinder warning "Error - release shutter-button to reset". MF usually works OK.

What aperture?

Perhaps starting WW3 with theorists f18 and f22 can be OK for competition projection.

Often the horizontal maximum number of pixels is 1,800 - giving flexibility to crop 45 MP to about 1/16th without significant loss of quality in the projected image.

Bee orchid showing background at f11

Bee orchid showing background effect at f11

If I could have found a specimen better separated from the background no background problem but no such luck in a break between heavy rain yesterday afternoon.

-- hide signature --

Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than the equipment being used.

 Leonard Shepherd's gear list:Leonard Shepherd's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D7200 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 Nikon Z7 +24 more
Ernie Misner
OP Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 5,189
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

Or how about with a tube and no optics in it? Way to go experimenting with those. Thanks and keep us posted.

On and off topic - AF or MF for macro?

My preferred choice is MF with a tripod and little wind (a challenge outdoor in the UK) - because MF enable me to choose the precise point of focus - as on the centre of the largest flower in the images below.

For flying insects AF, perhaps combined with "spray and pray" for tiny insects, and maybe as few as 1 in 20 shots OK is the way some photographers prefer work.

Nikon gives us choices - leaving each photographer to decide which and when.

The first challenge is there are no currently in production qualitytubes to fit Nikon which fully support metering etc

The Kenko (Nikon and Canon), particularly stacking the 3 tubes, do not hold the taking lens flange parallel to the sensor - even with a lightweight Z body

The discontinued Nikon PN-11is a single high quality tube with the bonus of a tripod collar but no AF electric contacts. It works on a DSLR with lenses with an aperture ring with some metering options.

Canon make a set of Canon fit tubes - for around £600.

Modern lenses are better than older designs at bringing R, G & B colour into focus in the same plane at the sensor.

Many recent lenses are designed with a constant lens flange to sensor distance. Introducing tubes is likely to mess up the R, G and B alignment at the sensor plane.

Using Kenko tubes with the 70-200 f4 and 300 PF seems to mirror this probability in that with several tube extension AF "ticks", though MF is OK. This might be because AF does not detect colour and may still detect one of the 3 primaries if it is out of focus.

A problem factor with the Z7 AF, is the Kenko tubes and the 70-300, 300 PF and 200-500 is an often viewfinder warning "Error - release shutter-button to reset". MF usually works OK.

What aperture?

Perhaps starting WW3 with theorists f18 and f22 can be OK for competition projection.

Often the horizontal maximum number of pixels is 1,800 - giving flexibility to crop 45 MP to about 1/16th without significant loss of quality in the projected image.

Bee orchid showing background at f11

Bee orchid showing background effect at f11

If I could have found a specimen better separated from the background no background problem but no such luck in a break between heavy rain yesterday afternoon.

Thanks Leonard and you are really getting into this with great results there.   Nice job of getting parallel to so many subjects... such dedication.  
I see that using a tube is not as simple as it sounds.  I have done okay with my Kenko's in the past but I have never stacked them or used more than one at a time.  I use them more for close ups than macro.  So funny how focusing behaves with a tube and zoom lens.  You can use the zoom to achieve focus somewhat.

-- hide signature --

Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
"I bet we'll find hints of extraterrestrial life before 2030" - Jamie Shreeve, Popular Science

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm F4G ED VR +6 more
Leonard Shepherd
Leonard Shepherd Forum Pro • Posts: 17,614
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?
1

Ernie Misner wrote:

Nice job of getting parallel to so many subjects.

It helps if you can look at a plant at 90 degrees to the shooting angle to see if it is vertical, and if not by how much.

Then with the camera on a tripod it becomes relatively straightforward to get the back of the camera parallel to the angle at which the plant is growing

So funny how focusing behaves with a tube and zoom lens. You can use the zoom to achieve focus somewhat.

Yes - the shorter the focal length used on a zoom the greater the maximum magnification becomes. And yes - zooming can sometimes help get good focus - though for a specific magnification you may need to zoom and focus.

It is interesting to note the complexity of some flower structures

Lesser butterfly orchid - close up detail. Seeing detail like this becomes possible without collecting a specimen and using a magnifying glass. With an updated 200 Nikon macro starting as close as this approximately 85% crop and focus stacking with an appropriate Nikon body higher definition is easily possible.

-- hide signature --

Leonard Shepherd
In lots of ways good photography is much more about how equipment is used rather than the equipment being used.

 Leonard Shepherd's gear list:Leonard Shepherd's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon D7200 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 Nikon Z7 +24 more
Ernie Misner
OP Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 5,189
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

Nice job of getting parallel to so many subjects.

It helps if you can look at a plant at 90 degrees to the shooting angle to see if it is vertical, and if not by how much.

Then with the camera on a tripod it becomes relatively straightforward to get the back of the camera parallel to the angle at which the plant is growing

So funny how focusing behaves with a tube and zoom lens. You can use the zoom to achieve focus somewhat.

Yes - the shorter the focal length used on a zoom the greater the maximum magnification becomes. And yes - zooming can sometimes help get good focus - though for a specific magnification you may need to zoom and focus.

It is interesting to note the complexity of some flower structures

Do you read OP magazine?  George Lepp has a short but interesting writeup of focus stacking using both new Canon and Nikon Z mirrorless bodies.  The Z is actually more capable and compatible with using flash when focus stacking he says.  I think they both (D850 too maybe) have an option to adjust exposure (brightness) on the individual shots.  He still prefers software like Zerene Stacker to Photoshop.

With an updated 200 Nikon macro starting as close as this approximately 85% crop and focus stacking with an appropriate Nikon body higher definition is easily possible.

-- hide signature --

Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
"I bet we'll find hints of extraterrestrial life before 2030" - Jamie Shreeve, Popular Science

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm F4G ED VR +6 more
Ernie Misner
OP Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 5,189
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?
1

Michael Benveniste wrote:

Ernie Misner wrote:

I doubt if the Sigma's will work with a Z when I go mirrorless either.

Sigma lists both its 150mm and 180mm lenses as compatible with the Z7:

https://www.sigmaphoto.com/article/nikon-z-compatibility-10-26-2018/

Whether that remains true over time and firmware upgrades is anyone's guess.

Thanks a bunch for this info and link.  I have been looking at those Sigma's but sure would sleep better if Nikon will update the 200 micro for the Z!

So still hoping for an updated 200 micro lens from Nikon before too long. Is that totally unrealistic?

People have been expecting an updated 200 "before too long" for at least a decade. On average, Nikon sells fewer than 100 a month, so I don't think it's very high on their priority list, but no one here really knows.

-- hide signature --

Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
"I bet we'll find hints of extraterrestrial life before 2030" - Jamie Shreeve, Popular Science

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm F4G ED VR +6 more
fpapp
fpapp Regular Member • Posts: 310
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?
1

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

Nikon gives us choices - leaving each photographer to decide which and when.

The first challenge is there are no currently in production qualitytubes to fit Nikon which fully support metering etc

The Kenko (Nikon and Canon), particularly stacking the 3 tubes, do not hold the taking lens flange parallel to the sensor - even with a lightweight Z body

The discontinued Nikon PN-11is a single high quality tube with the bonus of a tripod collar but no AF electric contacts. It works on a DSLR with lenses with an aperture ring with some metering options.

Nikon PN-11 Electrification for Dummies

This seems like a neat idea!

 fpapp's gear list:fpapp's gear list
Nikon Coolpix A1000 Nikon D500 Nikon D850 +6 more
Gfra New Member • Posts: 6
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?
1

A new Nikkor micro, 150mm or longer is on my wishlist aswell. I have the Sigma 150, and and IQ-wise it's a fine lens for it's age. Very usable on the D500. However the OS broke just from normal use on mine, and the af is starting to feel a bit old.

Ernie Misner
OP Ernie Misner Veteran Member • Posts: 5,189
Re: Will there be an updated 200 micro lens?

Gfra wrote:

A new Nikkor micro, 150mm or longer is on my wishlist aswell. I have the Sigma 150, and and IQ-wise it's a fine lens for it's age. Very usable on the D500. However the OS broke just from normal use on mine, and the af is starting to feel a bit old.

I understand your wish list.  Once you start shooting close ups with a long lens..... that bokeh.   

-- hide signature --

Ernie Misner
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erniemisner/
"I bet we'll find hints of extraterrestrial life before 2030" - Jamie Shreeve, Popular Science

 Ernie Misner's gear list:Ernie Misner's gear list
Nikon D810 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm F4G ED VR +6 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads