How I Got my $3500 Camera Kit Stolen on KitSplit for $70

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Doug J Forum Pro • Posts: 10,280
Re: Perpetrator's image
1

tkbslc wrote:

TN Args wrote:

Police would act where I live. And most other countries too. Sorry for you that they don't think theft is a crime.

The OP voluntarily loaned his camera to someone. Think if you loaned a coworker $1000 and he decided not to pay you back. Would the police help you?

Not a great analogy, he didn't loan his gear, he rented it through a company that conducts the transaction. The company's weasel words conveyed security and nearly no risk. I hadn't heard of the term "voluntary parting" until I read about the incident posted on DPR several weeks ago.

Cheers,
Doug

-
Bird galleries on PBase
Birds of Florida on PBase
General photography galleries on PBase

tkbslc Forum Pro • Posts: 13,267
Re: Perpetrator's image
2

Doug J wrote:

tkbslc wrote:

TN Args wrote:

Police would act where I live. And most other countries too. Sorry for you that they don't think theft is a crime.

The OP voluntarily loaned his camera to someone. Think if you loaned a coworker $1000 and he decided not to pay you back. Would the police help you?

Not a great analogy, he didn't loan his gear, he rented it through a company that conducts the transaction.

And then he handed his gear to someone to borrow as two private individuals.

The company's weasel words conveyed security and nearly no risk. I hadn't heard of the term "voluntary parting" until I read about the incident posted on DPR several weeks ago.

Yes, the company should be liable and should have authorized the full replacement cost of the gear up front and paid the OP.

Here's another (possibly bad) analogy.  Do police arrest people that lease cars but have missed their payments?

Doug J Forum Pro • Posts: 10,280
Re: Perpetrator's image

tkbslc wrote:

Doug J wrote:

tkbslc wrote:

TN Args wrote:

Police would act where I live. And most other countries too. Sorry for you that they don't think theft is a crime.

The OP voluntarily loaned his camera to someone. Think if you loaned a coworker $1000 and he decided not to pay you back. Would the police help you?

Not a great analogy, he didn't loan his gear, he rented it through a company that conducts the transaction.

And then he handed his gear to someone to borrow as two private individuals.

There was no loan or borrow involved, this was a financial transaction.

The company's weasel words conveyed security and nearly no risk. I hadn't heard of the term "voluntary parting" until I read about the incident posted on DPR several weeks ago.

Yes, the company should be liable and should have authorized the full replacement cost of the gear up front and paid the OP.

Agreed.

Here's another (possibly bad) analogy. Do police arrest people that lease cars but have missed their payments?

No, it's a civil issue, and you're right, it's not a good analogy.

Cheers,
Doug

J A C S
J A C S Forum Pro • Posts: 14,742
Re: How I Got my $3500 Camera Kit Stolen on KitSplit for $70
1

Leswick II wrote:

I have nothing against women start-ups. It appears that we've been warned here (on DPR) several months back when some yeyhoo rented $4500 kit from a NYC photographer....in exactly same manner. Yes, the photo of the offender did appear and not much could be done (?). Don't get why this sort of company doesn't sift people....similarly to applying for a rental space....or even stricter. Sure, I feel bad for the 'tog who lost its eq, tho I'm quite sure I wouldn't go this route to make $70.

Here is the link:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4334414#forum-post-61855159

zephyrprime Regular Member • Posts: 184
Re: How I Got my $3500 Camera Kit Stolen on KitSplit for $70
1

"civil" means much lower protections as far as law enforcement is concerned.

Chaplain Mark
Chaplain Mark Senior Member • Posts: 5,190
Re: Perpetrator's image

YohahN wrote:

I redacted the perpetrator's image for safety reasons. It was specifically requested by Jane, the other owner who got her gear stolen from the same renter as I since the perpetrator has both our addresses.

Also the police won't do anything even if I handed them this person's I.D., address, and gave them a pot of gold.

They consider this a civil case rather than a straightforward crime and are not interested or invested at all.

Of course the police are not interested in this matter; no crime was committed as no coercion or violence was part of the "transaction."

Certainly it was/is a moral offense, a civil tort perhaps, but not a police matter.

-- hide signature --

Thank You,
Chaplain Mark
-----
'Tis better to have a camera and not need one than to need a camera and not have one.
--------------
In pursuit of photographic excellence.

 Chaplain Mark's gear list:Chaplain Mark's gear list
Canon G3 X Canon PowerShot G5 X Sony a7R III +3 more
Corkcampbell
Corkcampbell Forum Pro • Posts: 18,856
Right; he's probably the "owner" of some bridges, too. (nt)
1
-- hide signature --

"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber ("Animal House")

 Corkcampbell's gear list:Corkcampbell's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Sony RX100 III Sony RX10 III Leica C-Lux +8 more
Corkcampbell
Corkcampbell Forum Pro • Posts: 18,856
Agreed; the stretched police force has more to do than to help
2

people reverse stupid decisions. I agree it's not a "crime," but more like a naive person just asking to be "taken to the cleaners" by fraudsters. I suspect, and surely hope, that most people on these forums would never rent out their equipment in this way, if ever.

-- hide signature --

"Knowledge is good." Emil Faber ("Animal House")

 Corkcampbell's gear list:Corkcampbell's gear list
Sigma DP2 Merrill Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Sony RX100 III Sony RX10 III Leica C-Lux +8 more
jcharding Senior Member • Posts: 2,468
If one wouldn't ...

... spend $50 to send camera gear through airport baggage handlers (with $50 being the cost for a photo bag) why on earth would anyone rent out equipment to random strangers for $70.  Is the extra $20 or so really that much of a difference?

At least if the airline loses my stuff I know who to blame. And photographers are notorious for being extremely reluctant to put anything other than their tripod in their checked luggage.

-- hide signature --
 jcharding's gear list:jcharding's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Konica Minolta Maxxum 7D Fujifilm X-Pro1 Fujifilm X-T1 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R +6 more
sybersitizen Forum Pro • Posts: 13,441
Not a crime?
19

Chaplain Mark wrote:

YohahN wrote:

They consider this a civil case rather than a straightforward crime and are not interested or invested at all.

Of course the police are not interested in this matter; no crime was committed as no coercion or violence was part of the "transaction."

Failure to return a rented item is not a crime where you live? If you live in California, where your profile says you live, it could be classified as a form of theft by larceny or theft by false pretense or theft by trick, depending on the details, and all are crimes. The type of crime under discussion here would be classified as grand theft due to the dollar value.

Also, there's at least one other completely different way in which this could be considered a criminal matter. Suppose the OP and the alleged renter of his gear were acting in collusion all along. Suppose no actual rental (and no actual disappearance of gear) occurred, and now the OP is attempting to defraud KitSplit by claiming a loss and seeking compensation for it. As outside observers, police organizations could only discover such a thing by initiating an investigation. That is, after all, their job.

Janoch
Janoch Veteran Member • Posts: 4,282
Re: How I Got my $3500 Camera Kit Stolen on KitSplit for $70

The petapixel link above ends with:

Update on 10/30/18: I want everyone to know that while this has been a really trying situation, KitSplit has gone to great lengths to help. KitSplit has now fully compensated me for the full value of the gear that was lost, even though this is beyond their legal requirements.

They’ve also assured me they are making improvements to their policies and will have additional updates soon. Even before this happened, I continued to use KitSplit, in part because I have been impressed with their customer service throughout this experience. Now, I am pleased that they went above and beyond to help, and are taking this as an opportunity to reflect and improve their system.

So maybe there's hope for OP...

And further opportunity for KitSplit to reflect and improve their system...

 Janoch's gear list:Janoch's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF Sigma 105mm F2.8 EX DG Macro Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm F4G ED VR +2 more
J A C S
J A C S Forum Pro • Posts: 14,742
Re: How I Got my $3500 Camera Kit Stolen on KitSplit for $70
3

Janoch wrote:

The petapixel link above ends with:

Update on 10/30/18: I want everyone to know that while this has been a really trying situation, KitSplit has gone to great lengths to help. KitSplit has now fully compensated me for the full value of the gear that was lost, even though this is beyond their legal requirements.

They’ve also assured me they are making improvements to their policies and will have additional updates soon. Even before this happened, I continued to use KitSplit, in part because I have been impressed with their customer service throughout this experience. Now, I am pleased that they went above and beyond to help, and are taking this as an opportunity to reflect and improve their system.

They just decided to pay him to shut him up.

So maybe there's hope for OP...

And further opportunity for KitSplit to reflect and improve their system...

threw the lens
threw the lens Senior Member • Posts: 1,107
Re: How I Got my $3500 Camera Kit Stolen on KitSplit for $70
6

Maybe this explains why if anyone wants to borrow my gear, I will ask them to pay me what it's worth and if they return it in the same condition I lent it in, I'll consider giving them the money back.

I don't think I'll have any takers, somehow. So if they won't trust me, why would I trust them?

SmilerGrogan Contributing Member • Posts: 641
KitSplit Is Evil

You have our sympathy my brother.

Krav Maga
Krav Maga Senior Member • Posts: 2,866
Re: How I Got my $3500 Camera Kit Stolen on KitSplit for $70

Fregoli wrote:

In US, someone should bring this to their local lawmaker/representative's attention. Maybe that's the only way to bring about change.

What kind of change? Why should "lawmakers" babysit people who voluntarily hand over expensive items to complete strangers?

No one was forced to do that.

Personally, there's no way in hades' half acre I would do that. I might entertain the notion to think about pondering to possibly consider it IF KitSplit held onto a credit card pre-charge for the value of whatever I handed over to someone.

Maybe.

Plus, I'm trying to imagine the conversation with an insurance company in trying to recoup money in this situation. "So, tell us what happened."

"Well, I voluntarily handed my stuff over to a complete stranger and they never brought it back ...."

-- hide signature --

I feel more like I do now than I did before ...
https://www.danielmedley.com

 Krav Maga's gear list:Krav Maga's gear list
Nikon D5200 Nikon D750 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm F1.8G Tamron SP 70-300mm F4-5.6 Di VC USD Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm F4G ED VR +3 more
trungtran Contributing Member • Posts: 939
Re: Absolutely Insanely Ridiculous Concept....
1

Chaplain Mark wrote:

I can't think of a quicker, more efficient way to part with one's gear, aside from laying it down on a street corner and walking away, than this KitSplit nonsense.....

It was named KitSplit because some stranger splits with your kit...!!

On the flip side, this is the cheapest way to get gear. I am surprised the thief just didn't go for a Leica or something higher value.

The OP made a really good post on basically how to get away with stealing someones gear. It has happened before and KitSplit have not bothered updating any safeguards.

 trungtran's gear list:trungtran's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M10 Sony a7 II Canon EOS M6
trungtran Contributing Member • Posts: 939
Re: Perpetrator's image

YohahN wrote:

I redacted the perpetrator's image for safety reasons. It was specifically requested by Jane, the other owner who got her gear stolen from the same renter as I since the perpetrator has both our addresses.

Also the police won't do anything even if I handed them this person's I.D., address, and gave them a pot of gold.

They consider this a civil case rather than a straightforward crime and are not interested or invested at all.

Wow this just sounds bad all around. So thief knows where you live as well. Did you disclose to him any other gear you have.

The way KitSplit is run, i wouldn't be surprised of a class action lawsuit down the line.

 trungtran's gear list:trungtran's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M10 Sony a7 II Canon EOS M6
pforsell
pforsell Senior Member • Posts: 2,261
Whudda? Say what?
18

Giving stuff to a stranger without collateral? What could go wrong?

-- hide signature --

Peter

 pforsell's gear list:pforsell's gear list
Nikon D1X Nikon D2X Nikon D3X Nikon D3S Nikon D4S +22 more
richdm Contributing Member • Posts: 670
Re: How I Got my $3500 Camera Kit Stolen on KitSplit for $70
3

That sucks. Sorry to hear this happened to you.

You'd think that kitsplit would very clearly indicate on their website that an equipment owner isn't covered by their "insurance" for outright theft of the equipment.

Instead, there's only one line at the bottom of a page that is only gotten to if one clicks on a one-word link at the end of a paragraph that starts with:

"Owners: rest assured that we require renters to purchase insurance, a damage waiver, or leave a full deposit."

Ha ha, "rest assured" indeed.

When one clicks on that very-easy-to-miss link, you get that page with the one line:

"we recommend that owners get their own annual policy with voluntary parting coverage in addition to the insurance provided by the renter."

Yeah, okay, it's underlined.  But it's at the very bottom, almost as an afterthought, when it should be prominently displayed!

 richdm's gear list:richdm's gear list
Pentax K10D Pentax K20D Nikon D3300 +2 more
FluidKnowledge Regular Member • Posts: 294
Re: How I Got my $3500 Camera Kit Stolen on KitSplit for $70
2

Wow, you learn something new everyday. I've never heard of the term "voluntary parting" but I have now.

Seems like you have to track down the thief yourself since the police are useless. Maybe how a private investigator to track the thief down or offer a reward for information.

You should also post the serial numbers of your camera gear here so we can keep an eye out on the used market because invariably the thief will try to sell it for cash.

Have you registered your serial numbers in the stolen cameras database websites?

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads