As unbiased as can be please? Help needed.

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
XeroJay
XeroJay Senior Member • Posts: 2,216
Re: native & OEM is better than adapted and 3rd party

nebulla wrote:

DenImage wrote:

Do you ever admit you're wrong Joger???

I doubt it.

Your broad sweeping statement "native & OEM is better than adapted and 3rd party" is not accurate. There are 3rd party lenses that are just as good (if not better) as native models.

Den

Den, I totally agree with you. I have seen statement like this too often which is pure rubbish in most cases. No one would disagree that a native lens would not outperform an adapted lens, but in reality, not by any large margin IMO. I have been using my Canon lenses on the Sony A7iii since I purchased it with hardly any loss of performance or IQ. My Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 L 85mm F1.8 with the Sigma MC-11 works without a hitch, with great IQ from all these lenses. I also have the Sony 24-105mm,which I like , but nothing that I would really miss with my Canon lenses if I did not have it.

+1 for me. In fact, when I switched to Sony, my Sigma adapted lenses performed better than they ever did on any Canon body, including the 5DIV.

Things are different with the Sony E mount, as they've opened up the mount for third party compatibility, unlike Canon and Nikon. I don't know why samyang seems to struggle still, but Tamron and Sigma lenses are basically performing as native on the current Alpha cameras. I'm not sure the same is true for Nikon Z and Canon R, where they're still closed spec mounts, keeping third party mfgs guessing and reverse engineering.

 XeroJay's gear list:XeroJay's gear list
Canon EOS M6 Sony a9 Sony a7 III Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM +7 more
joger
joger Veteran Member • Posts: 5,697
native & OEM IS perceivable better than adapted and 3rd party lenses
1

MILC man wrote:

short summary of your statements

..I don't need that functionality with all lenses, so it's personal preference.

..why do you want to duplicate functionality that the dial aperture control on the body already has? that isn't an advantage, it's personal preference.

.. not important for people who don't use mf.

.. yes, it's personal preference again.

.. Samyang is:
1) much cheaper
2) Samyang 35/2.8 is sharper than the sony fe35/2.8: https://www.lenstip.com/518.4-Lens_review-Samyang_AF_35_mm_f_2.8_FE_Image_resolution.html

sony pricing on the fe35/2.8 and the fe55 is too expensive for what those lenses offer.

.. I picked up

with all due respect - it's not about you

It's about options.

I may quote myself: "You may personally need/want or not these buttons and dials." and later in the text: "This is not suggesting that others perceive it the same way - nevertheless it is important to mention IMHO."

3rd Party AF lenses don't have:

  • programmable buttons
  • aperture rings
  • most no AF/MF switch on the lens or focus limiters

And some work poorly with AF and others have poor sample to sample variation.

This may or may not be a perceivable inconvenience but minimum this is an incompatibility with the full spec.

Whether or not you use them is your choice. Implying this is not existing because you don't use these things is like saying you don't travel to the moon since it is too far away

Seriously - I don't regard 3rd party lenses as fully compatible even though they work and even worse they might not work properly after some firmware updates on the camera or with future cameras.

I am pretty sure Sony, Nikon and Canon will make sure that their lenses will work as long as possible with future cameras.

Nikon abandoned the aperture ring and the AF drive and thus I disregarded this brand and Canon never put an aperture ring on the camera at all.

-- hide signature --

__________________________________
A7R III - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

 joger's gear list:joger's gear list
Sony a7R III Zeiss Loxia 21mm F2.8 Sony FE 85mm F1.4 GM Sony FE 135mm F1.8 GM Sony FE 200-600 F5.6-6.3 +9 more
MILC man Senior Member • Posts: 3,515
Re: native & OEM IS perceivable better than adapted and 3rd party lenses
1

joger wrote:

MILC man wrote:

jogger wrote:

I have to admit that I don't look at zooms at all

with all due respect - it's not about you

with all due respect - it's not about you either, with wanting just primes

It's about options.

that is just a repeat of what has already been addressed.

except that you failed to mention any of the places that sony fell short, particularly in price, and with the lack of rear filter options.

And some work poorly with AF

agreed wrt with video af, in large part due to sony crippling it, via the laea3/a-mount video limitations.

and of course with sony crippling the af-c rate to 3fps, on all ff milc bodies but the a9.

not a 3rd-party lens issue, tho… sony did it to sony brand e-mount lenses, so it's not like sony is squeaky-clean here.

and others have poor sample to sample variation.

and the sony 35/1.4 doesn't have a sample variation problem?

Seriously - I don't regard 3rd party lenses as fully compatible even though they work and even worse they might not work properly after some firmware updates on the camera or with future cameras.

here is my first-hand art 135 experience on the a9, why don't you see if you can find any of your "work poorly with af" examples in there

U.S. Pro Cup Beach Soccer Photos 2019

XeroJay
XeroJay Senior Member • Posts: 2,216
Re: native & OEM IS perceivable better than adapted and 3rd party lenses

joger wrote:

MILC man wrote:

short summary of your statements

..I don't need that functionality with all lenses, so it's personal preference.

..why do you want to duplicate functionality that the dial aperture control on the body already has? that isn't an advantage, it's personal preference.

.. not important for people who don't use mf.

.. yes, it's personal preference again.

.. Samyang is:
1) much cheaper
2) Samyang 35/2.8 is sharper than the sony fe35/2.8: https://www.lenstip.com/518.4-Lens_review-Samyang_AF_35_mm_f_2.8_FE_Image_resolution.html

sony pricing on the fe35/2.8 and the fe55 is too expensive for what those lenses offer.

.. I picked up

with all due respect - it's not about you

It's about options.

I may quote myself: "You may personally need/want or not these buttons and dials." and later in the text: "This is not suggesting that others perceive it the same way - nevertheless it is important to mention IMHO."

3rd Party AF lenses don't have:

  • programmable buttons
  • aperture rings
  • most no AF/MF switch on the lens or focus limiters

And some work poorly with AF and others have poor sample to sample variation.

This may or may not be a perceivable inconvenience but minimum this is an incompatibility with the full spec.

Whether or not you use them is your choice. Implying this is not existing because you don't use these things is like saying you don't travel to the moon since it is too far away

Seriously - I don't regard 3rd party lenses as fully compatible even though they work and even worse they might not work properly after some firmware updates on the camera or with future cameras.

That may be true for Canon and Nikon, but Sony E mount is open standard. This means third party lens mfgs have the same level of access to the mount specs as Sony does. It also means firmware updates are just as likely to break Sony lens compatibility as third party lens compatibility, in other words, not very likely.

I am pretty sure Sony, Nikon and Canon will make sure that their lenses will work as long as possible with future cameras.

Nikon abandoned the aperture ring and the AF drive and thus I disregarded this brand and Canon never put an aperture ring on the camera at all.

-- hide signature --

__________________________________
A7R III - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

 XeroJay's gear list:XeroJay's gear list
Canon EOS M6 Sony a9 Sony a7 III Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM +7 more
joger
joger Veteran Member • Posts: 5,697
Re: native & OEM is better than adapted and 3rd party
1

XeroJay wrote:

nebulla wrote:

+1 for me. In fact, when I switched to Sony, my Sigma adapted lenses performed better than they ever did on any Canon body, including the 5DIV.

That's one reason why you use a Sony AX body - good choice!

I can remember an Opel commercial where they compared their new 6-zylinder engine as being the best they've ever produced. Knowing that e.g. BMW built far superior engines that time

Things are different with the Sony E mount, as they've opened up the mount for third party compatibility, unlike Canon and Nikon. I don't know why samyang seems to struggle still, but Tamron and Sigma lenses are basically performing as native on the current Alpha cameras. I'm not sure the same is true for Nikon Z and Canon R, where they're still closed spec mounts, keeping third party mfgs guessing and reverse engineering.

Well - opening up the specification is one thing.

Leaving out switches and buttons and thus making the lenses incompatible with all functions is something I don't get.

I doubt that the Sigma 135 performs as well as the GM 135 and the weight surplus alone would be distracting me.

Nevertheless I can only encourage everyone to think twice before buying a 3rd party products as a direct replacement for an existing proven good OEM pendant.

Purchasing price alone is a really bad guidance IMHO - total cost of ownership is the more clever approach.

-- hide signature --

__________________________________
A7R III - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

 joger's gear list:joger's gear list
Sony a7R III Zeiss Loxia 21mm F2.8 Sony FE 85mm F1.4 GM Sony FE 135mm F1.8 GM Sony FE 200-600 F5.6-6.3 +9 more
tonyz1 Regular Member • Posts: 410
Quick take
1

Focus Lock wrote:

hi guys,

this question could also be posed on the Nikon forum but I’m hoping to get your help as ex Nikon users here.

my issue is that I have bought the Sony a7iii and 24-105, as well as the 55 1.8 and now the Samyang 85mm. These primes have had very little use and the 85 wide open i found problems with eye AF. I do love the Sony though and have enjoyed using it with the 24-105. It’s a keeper.

i am now faced with having my Nikon d500 and 200-500 lens which is great for sports and wildlife. Very fast and accurate. I also have the 16-35 lens; 50 mm1.8; 70-200.

Now all these are FF lenses and I am now stuck as to wanting a FF body like the d850 to use these lenses or should I sell up these lenses and move to the A7riii and it’s prime equivalents? On one hand I am trying to put my eggs into one system and on the the other I feel I could lose less money by keeping the Nikon gear but then I’d be running a FF Nikon, a CROP sensor Nikon and the FF Sony.

Sorry for the long question but how can I best sort this out?

Late to the thread so haven't read all the responses but my perspective:

How much do you use your D500 + 200-500? If it's a significant part of your photography, keep that setup. While the Sony A9 is arguably better, I find that DSLRs are better for action photography over say the Sony a7R III and the new Sony A6400. The shutter black out on the EVF is very annoying and more so than the DSLR black out in the optical viewfinder.

For all other genres of photography, I would consider selling all your other Nikon lenses and moving to Sony. The Sony A7R III is pretty much the best all around camera in my opinion EXCEPT for action / fast wildlife photography. You'll lose some money on the Nikon gear but there's now a large market for used Sony FE gear so you'll be able to save money on picking up those lenses on the other side.

If you want to stick with an all Nikon setup, the Nikon Z7 makes more sense to me than the D850 for future proofing purposes and pairs well with your D500.

 tonyz1's gear list:tonyz1's gear list
Sony a7R III Sony a9 Zeiss Batis 25mm F2 Zeiss Batis 85mm F1.8 Zeiss Batis 18mm F2.8 +4 more
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads