The strong alternative!

Started Jun 22, 2019 | User reviews
Khun_K
Khun_K Senior Member • Posts: 1,630
The strong alternative!
7

The Panasonic Lumix S1R is a very well balanced performer in still images and I can't make comment on its video capability because I have not yet tried it nor I intend to.

Although with only the Lumix S 24-105/4 and Sigma 24-70/2.8 DG HSM Art and 85/1.4 DG HSM Art (both in Canon mount using MC-21 mount adapter on S1R) I have enough coverage for 99% of what I normally shoot.

The S1R is very well built and one can feel its rigidness once it is pick up instantly. The S1R is in the size department of the reflex cameras that I am used to although common sense suggests the mirrorless camera tends to be smaller and lighter. It is without a doubt Panasonic can make the S cameras lighter and smaller if it is decided so, my take on the camera size and weight is a marketing decision than engineering limitations.

I have my Blog to cover my first try of the camera - https://www.kaisernchen.com/post/into-changed-landscape

It is not a BLOG for a gear review and I don't have the patience to do the common gear review.  What I do is a short image journal base on my personal preference and as a photographer to share some basic information,

Some images with S1R for reference;

 Khun_K's gear list:Khun_K's gear list
Leica M Monochrom (Typ 246) Sony RX1R II Leica Q2 Sony DSC-RX0 II leica m edition 60 +134 more
Panasonic Lumix DC-S1R
47 megapixels • 3.2 screen • Full frame sensor
Announced: Feb 1, 2019
Khun_K's score
4.5
Average community score
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bad for good for
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LingoDingo Senior Member • Posts: 1,743
Re: The strong alternative!

The size and weight are mostly about having enough processing power for video and dealing with the inherent heat issues, an area where most Sony FF cameras will overheat when shooting 4K video in a hot environment for more than an hour.

With Panasonic's dedicated video oriented FF camera, the S1H, they've made the body even bigger and appear to have incorporated a fan to cool the camera body to enable unlimited recording time in all formats.

 LingoDingo's gear list:LingoDingo's gear list
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twilsonstudiolab
twilsonstudiolab Regular Member • Posts: 310
Re: The strong alternative!
2

Khun_K wrote:

The S1R is very well built and one can feel its rigidness once it is pick up instantly. The S1R is in the size department of the reflex cameras that I am used to although common sense suggests the mirrorless camera tends to be smaller and lighter. It is without a doubt Panasonic can make the S cameras lighter and smaller if it is decided so, my take on the camera size and weight is a marketing decision than engineering limitations.

I think it's actually the opposite of that. I think the other companies prioritized small size as a positioning move to differentiate from their own FF DSLR offerings (Nikon, Canon) or from what they wanted to compete against (Sony, against FF DSLRs). Those companies had to compromise technically to achieve that small size.

The calculus is different for Panasonic. They already had small, and wanted to add something with no compromises. So they were free to make it as big as it needed to be.

Khun_K, those are fabulous images, by the way.

-- hide signature --

Tim Wilson
Studio/lab
Chicago

Khun_K
OP Khun_K Senior Member • Posts: 1,630
Re: The strong alternative!

LingoDingo wrote:

The size and weight are mostly about having enough processing power for video and dealing with the inherent heat issues, an area where most Sony FF cameras will overheat when shooting 4K video in a hot environment for more than an hour.

With Panasonic's dedicated video oriented FF camera, the S1H, they've made the body even bigger and appear to have incorporated a fan to cool the camera body to enable unlimited recording time in all formats.

Understood what you are talking about but I have professional friends who are using the A7RIII & A7SII shoot very beautiful commercial videos that they don't have problems.

Both Panasonic and SONY have a strong footing in the field of professional and independent film making.

 Khun_K's gear list:Khun_K's gear list
Leica M Monochrom (Typ 246) Sony RX1R II Leica Q2 Sony DSC-RX0 II leica m edition 60 +134 more
2ndviolinman Regular Member • Posts: 305
Re: The strong alternative!

Beautiful photos. Thank you for your thoughts.

Khun_K
OP Khun_K Senior Member • Posts: 1,630
Re: The strong alternative!

twilsonstudiolab wrote:

Khun_K wrote:

The S1R is very well built and one can feel its rigidness once it is pick up instantly. The S1R is in the size department of the reflex cameras that I am used to although common sense suggests the mirrorless camera tends to be smaller and lighter. It is without a doubt Panasonic can make the S cameras lighter and smaller if it is decided so, my take on the camera size and weight is a marketing decision than engineering limitations.

I think it's actually the opposite of that. I think the other companies prioritized small size as a positioning move to differentiate from their own FF DSLR offerings (Nikon, Canon) or from what they wanted to compete against (Sony, against FF DSLRs). Those companies had to compromise technically to achieve that small size.

The calculus is different for Panasonic. They already had small, and wanted to add something with no compromises. So they were free to make it as big as it needed to be.

Khun_K, those are fabulous images, by the way.

It's an opinion and my point is Panasonic has the capability to make the camera smaller or larger, lighter or heavier base on their study.  The S series cameras are new entries and promising, getting the images from S1R.

SONY A7/A9 series cameras are smaller and lighter and my experience with the system also told me their capabilities, as well as many other very well respected professionals who made amazing images with SONY cameras.

IMHO, there is no poor camera after 2015, they are all wonderful one way or another. Cameras are not the limitation nor excuses.

 Khun_K's gear list:Khun_K's gear list
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Khun_K
OP Khun_K Senior Member • Posts: 1,630
Re: The strong alternative!

2ndviolinman wrote:

Beautiful photos. Thank you for your thoughts.

Thanks, it is just one person's opinion, subjective of course.

 Khun_K's gear list:Khun_K's gear list
Leica M Monochrom (Typ 246) Sony RX1R II Leica Q2 Sony DSC-RX0 II leica m edition 60 +134 more
LingoDingo Senior Member • Posts: 1,743
Re: The strong alternative!

Khun_K wrote:

LingoDingo wrote:

The size and weight are mostly about having enough processing power for video and dealing with the inherent heat issues, an area where most Sony FF cameras will overheat when shooting 4K video in a hot environment for more than an hour.

With Panasonic's dedicated video oriented FF camera, the S1H, they've made the body even bigger and appear to have incorporated a fan to cool the camera body to enable unlimited recording time in all formats.

Understood what you are talking about but I have professional friends who are using the A7RIII & A7SII shoot very beautiful commercial videos that they don't have problems.

You can definitely shoot nice footage with Sony FF cameras, but if you try to shoot a 3+ hour live event in 4K in a hot environment most Sony FF cameras will overheat. It's a well known issue with Sony FF and APS-C cameras that they will eventually overheat when recording 4K footage if you run them long enough. Panasonic GH5, GH5s, and S1 don't appear to have this problem.

Both Panasonic and SONY have a strong footing in the field of professional and independent film making.

None of the Sony cameras record 10-bit 4:2:2 internal footage. ( even the Sony FS5 cine camera can't record 4K 10-bit internal footage )

The Sony 5-axis IBIS can't smooth out handheld footage when the camera is moving.
( check this comparison of the A7III against the GH5, the test appears at the 8:00 mark...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CnxM_AipR8 )

The Sony A6400 is the first Sony mirrorless camera to not have a recording limit, though I don't know if anybody has tested to see if it overheats when recording hours of continuous 4K footage. The Panasonic GX85 / GH4 / GH5 / GH5s / S1 all have no recording limit. ( I've shot one 12 hour continuous 4K 10-bit event with my GH5, and I could have kept going for days if I needed to )

There is a big difference between Panasonic and Sony mirrorless cameras, and we have been waiting almost 4 years for the first Sony mirrorless camera ( the fabled A7SIII ) that can shoot 10-bit footage in any format.

 LingoDingo's gear list:LingoDingo's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Panasonic GH5 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12mm 1:2 +23 more
Khun_K
OP Khun_K Senior Member • Posts: 1,630
Re: The strong alternative!

LingoDingo wrote:

Khun_K wrote:

LingoDingo wrote:

The size and weight are mostly about having enough processing power for video and dealing with the inherent heat issues, an area where most Sony FF cameras will overheat when shooting 4K video in a hot environment for more than an hour.

With Panasonic's dedicated video oriented FF camera, the S1H, they've made the body even bigger and appear to have incorporated a fan to cool the camera body to enable unlimited recording time in all formats.

Understood what you are talking about but I have professional friends who are using the A7RIII & A7SII shoot very beautiful commercial videos that they don't have problems.

You can definitely shoot nice footage with Sony FF cameras, but if you try to shoot a 3+ hour live event in 4K in a hot environment most Sony FF cameras will overheat. It's a well known issue with Sony FF and APS-C cameras that they will eventually overheat when recording 4K footage if you run them long enough. Panasonic GH5, GH5s, and S1 don't appear to have this problem.

Both Panasonic and SONY have a strong footing in the field of professional and independent film making.

None of the Sony cameras record 10-bit 4:2:2 internal footage. ( even the Sony FS5 cine camera can't record 4K 10-bit internal footage )

The Sony 5-axis IBIS can't smooth out handheld footage when the camera is moving.
( check this comparison of the A7III against the GH5, the test appears at the 8:00 mark...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CnxM_AipR8 )

The Sony A6400 is the first Sony mirrorless camera to not have a recording limit, though I don't know if anybody has tested to see if it overheats when recording hours of continuous 4K footage. The Panasonic GX85 / GH4 / GH5 / GH5s / S1 all have no recording limit. ( I've shot one 12 hour continuous 4K 10-bit event with my GH5, and I could have kept going for days if I needed to )

There is a big difference between Panasonic and Sony mirrorless cameras, and we have been waiting almost 4 years for the first Sony mirrorless camera ( the fabled A7SIII ) that can shoot 10-bit footage in any format.

I am not interested in the video capability and I have seen very beautiful commercial videos made with SONY A7RIII/A7S2 and other SONY gears, I believe Panasonic is not less good as they are popular choices.

My focus is on the still images.

 Khun_K's gear list:Khun_K's gear list
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LingoDingo Senior Member • Posts: 1,743
Re: The strong alternative!

Khun_K wrote:

My focus is on the still images.

I realize that, but video is the main reason for the size of the Panasonic S1 / S1R / S1H camera bodies, so when you suggest that Panasonic could have made a smaller S1R camera body this would only be true if you removed the video capability of the camera. ( I could see a smaller Leica-like FF body from Panasonic if you scrap video from the camera )

 LingoDingo's gear list:LingoDingo's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX7 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX85 Panasonic GH5 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm F1.8 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12mm 1:2 +23 more
Khun_K
OP Khun_K Senior Member • Posts: 1,630
Re: The strong alternative!

LingoDingo wrote:

Khun_K wrote:

My focus is on the still images.

I realize that, but video is the main reason for the size of the Panasonic S1 / S1R / S1H camera bodies, so when you suggest that Panasonic could have made a smaller S1R camera body this would only be true if you removed the video capability of the camera. ( I could see a smaller Leica-like FF body from Panasonic if you scrap video from the camera )

I agree it is one of the reasons but disagree it is the deciding factor but it is a subjective opinion of course.

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mcsey2k1 Regular Member • Posts: 362
Re: The strong alternative!

Very lovely photos and composition. I also have the Sigma Art 85mm F1.4 in the SA mount, (pick it up LN condition for $600) and it a very nice lens in when I use it with my  S1R.

Thanks for your thought on the camera.

Kind Regards,

J-

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James Stirling
James Stirling Senior Member • Posts: 9,279
Re: The strong alternative!

Thank you for your report and posting lovely images , Thailand is a fascinating country with very friendly folk

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Jim Stirling:
It is not reason which is the guide of life, but custom. David Hume

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Khun_K
OP Khun_K Senior Member • Posts: 1,630
Re: The strong alternative!

James Stirling wrote:

Thank you for your report and posting lovely images , Thailand is a fascinating country with very friendly folk

Thanks. Thailand is indeed a wonderful place to travel around and to photography, most people are very camera-friendly.

 Khun_K's gear list:Khun_K's gear list
Leica M Monochrom (Typ 246) Sony RX1R II Leica Q2 Sony DSC-RX0 II leica m edition 60 +134 more
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