I'd like a lighter weight zoom camera than my SX60 HS (includes photos)

You'd "save" about 1/2 pound with the 20 mpx  panasonic ZS80, which goes out as far as 720mm, has RAW, a very good flip-up LCD, good EVF, three physical function buttons (and I think some virtual Fn buttons). Some superb images have been posted to the Panny forum here. Using the cropped sensor on the ZS80, you'd get almost 1400mm equivalent focal length, and a 10 mpx image file.

You may want to consider the sx730is, it's is very cheap at $200ish for a refurb and fits in your pocket. Approx. the same external dimensions as g7xII. You will have a hard time getting BIF with it but for everything else it is really good. It's 20MP, A camera this small shouldn't be able to do what it can do. Most of the shots below are at 960mm equivalent.

BTW, exceptional composition on that last shot. Really excellent!

saaber1 wrote:

... The image stabilization is unbelievably good. All the photos below are handheld except for jupiter moons and Saturn photos. The first two are a test I did comparing DSLR to the SX730.

sx730, male robin guarding the nest while the mother is away

Nikon D750 with 135mm portrait lens (note that camera incorrectly reports lens as 16mm on exif)

about 450 feet away

almost at minimum focus distance

Jupiter and 4 of it's moons

Saturn

Dandelion, widest angle

saaber1 wrote:

You may want to consider the sx730is, it's is very cheap at $200ish for a refurb and fits in your pocket.

Where in the UK would he get a refurb? I only ever see them on the Canon US web site and do they post to the UK and would they guarantee them overseas?

Approx. the same external dimensions as g7xII. You will have a hard time getting BIF with it but for everything else it is really good. It's 20MP, A camera this small shouldn't be able to do what it can do. Most of the shots below are at 960mm equivalent.

BTW, exceptional composition on that last shot. Really excellent!

RE planets, I've had good luck using manual focus and around 1/25th shutter speed or so. I assume the same will work for sx60?

If you expose for Jupiter you can see bands and maybe the eye if you are lucky but moons will be too dark. If you expose a little higher you will see the moons but not jupiter's bands. Fun stuff to play around with. Those were shot in a fairly big city with massive light pollution and not very clear skies so in a remote place the sx730 would do much better. I need to try to get the space station with the sx730. That would be a fun challenge!

Re angle screen the sx730 unfortunately only tilts upwards and doesn't articulate like g5x or similar (probably mostly for selfies was the sx730 design intent). I use sx730 for travel paired with g7xII. It's really good in that complimentary role. I wouldn't use it as the only camera one has. g7xII is for most shots 24-100mm and sx730 will stretch out to get most anything far away in that travel role combo.

TheAlex wrote:

I just read a good tip for the SX730 HS that seems obvious now - turn it upside-down to use the 'selfie screen' for shooting above head-level.

Excellent idea.  Never occurred to me.  It should work.

I've shot Canon for 35+ years, but If light weight and an EVF are important to you have you considered the Sony HX series? Nothing mentioned so far come close to HX size and weight. They are tiny and you may want to check how they fit your hands/ergonomics.

I have had several Panasonic FZ cameras, but the ZS60 was a dud from the day I got it. Zoom errors the first day. Panny said to return it, which I did. I don't trust the cheaper Panasonics these days.

the HX90v (may not be available in all markets) and HX80 weigh only 245 grams (8.64 ounces.) Both are 30x zooms. The HX80 and HX90v only shoot in JPEG but the HX80 is the cheapest of the Sonys. I love mine.

The newest, HX99/95,shoots in RAW and has several new features, but is above your budget I'm guessing. Anyway check the side by side comparison of the Canon, Panasonic and Sony here:

https://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=sony_dschx90v&products=sony_dschx80&products=canon_sx730hs&products=panasonic_dczs80&sortDir=ascending

Sony HX80. Heavily cropped.

John McCormack wrote:

I've shot Canon for 35+ years, but If light weight and an EVF are important to you have you considered the Sony HX series? Nothing mentioned so far come close to HX size and weight. They are tiny and you may want to check how they fit your hands/ergonomics.

I have had several Panasonic FZ cameras, but the ZS60 was a dud from the day I got it. Zoom errors the first day. Panny said to return it, which I did. I don't trust the cheaper Panasonics these days.

the HX90v (may not be available in all markets) and HX80 weigh only 245 grams (8.64 ounces.) Both are 30x zooms. The HX80 and HX90v only shoot in JPEG but the HX80 is the cheapest of the Sonys. I love mine.

The newest, HX99/95,shoots in RAW and has several new features, but is above your budget I'm guessing. Anyway check the side by side comparison of the Canon, Panasonic and Sony here:

https://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=sony_dschx90v&products=sony_dschx80&products=canon_sx730hs&products=panasonic_dczs80&sortDir=ascending

Sony HX80. Heavily cropped.

I agree about the panasonic long zoom pocketable cameras.  I had the zs50 and returned it after 2 days.  I was very disappointed in many aspects of it with image quality being #1 disappointment and usability/ergonomics being #2.

NextShowForSure wrote:

saaber1 wrote:

You may want to consider the sx730is, it's is very cheap at $200ish for a refurb and fits in your pocket.

Where in the UK would he get a refurb? I only ever see them on the Canon US web site and do they post to the UK and would they guarantee them overseas?...

Dunno about uk refurbs. Maybe call Canon and see what they do with their refurbs? If you buy from USA from a non-canon place do they charge some tariff or taxes if mailed to U.K.?

Canon had a sale last year where they had refurb sx730is plus a printer (small one) plus ink refills plus paper plus 16GB sd card for $200. I couldn't pass it up so I bought 3 of them! So now I have 3 extra printers etc. gathering dust ha ha. I turned one of the sx730is into a night vision camera by removing IR filter and coupled it with infrared only flashlight. Only problem is range of camera is virtually unlimited but range of IR light is limited. Maybe I need to try some type of laser or something and try to take night vision shots of something a mile away or something. Whats cool is it works when there is zero ambient light. It's not a light gathering type night vision, it is monochrome IR. I've also been experimenting with putting it on a rifle scope which works just o.k. so far. Real night vision scopes are like $3k or more.

n00b opinion here; I've had a SX720 for a year and I have to say I'm a bit disappointed, and from what I've read and seen most pocket superzooms IQ disappoints.

NOT because those can't take quality shots, rather because they're not designed well-enough so that the quality would be consistent.

I mean without major preparation and hassle, only about 10% of your pictures will look the best your camera can technically produce.

The other 90% will look slightly off focus or blurred, lacking the details, contrast and colors you would wish for, VS. your relatively recent smartphone now curiously nailing all that better for a much higher success ratio and without hassle (sure "no optical zoom not the same deal" blah blah, but still the comparison is irritating)

The reasons are multiple and complicated IMO;

- the stabilizer can work great for long distances but will still miss its best most times. tripod and even remote shutter are super important if you want the best. unfortunately something like remote BT or NFC shutter isn't a thing at this level whatever the name brand (forget smartphone apps that devour both the camera's and the phone's batteries so fast it's hilarious). You can only delay then hands off if you want to be sure.

- the AF won't always best adjust at the right time, no matter how you tweak its settings you can't rely on it too much, and the assist options are a joke. BTW the person who invented halfway shutter button pressure will definitely go to Hell.

- whatever PASM some settings you'd better think about before picking a mode will get in the way, and ruin it if you chose wrong forcing you to go back all the way, but on those little cameras proud of their menus-heavy firmwares and fancy names features, what the settings really do in practice feels borderline esoteric.

- trying to go full manual means dealing with tiny ill-placed controls, sometimes lacking detailed-enough info on the display, and several settings would be much better with additional physical controls.

- the tiny display doesn't translate what's going on nor how your picture will turn out well-enough. The right exposure? focus? you won't know that just looking at that display. I'm not sure the Pana/Sony models featuring a small EVF would be so much better for that, it seem their main purpose here is to help in broad sunlight period.

- yeah so after a while you realize the truth: your camera has hidden sweet spots which are the only occurences when you'll get actually good quality pictures...but they're very elusive, hard to identify and it's preposterous to think anyone can easily find and master them, those pocket cameras were not thought for that purpose, before everything they're point-zoom-shoots.

To conclude I'll say this is a poor product segment whispering "tumbleweeds, man! tumbleweeds..."

Canon SX7**, Panasonic ZS/TS**, Sony HV**, all three series appear on the same level IQ and design-wise, all making you think they only give their best like 10% times and not thanks to your efforts with their half-baked controls and features, but mostly by luck.

I've looked up (1") but there's not much choice, the Panasonic ZS100 and ZS200 don't provide a significant-enough increase in IQ to justify the much shorter zoom, and the design/controls seem barely improved over the other lesser sensor compact superzooms.

The only actually good one seems to be the Sony RX100 VI, of which you can apparently trust the IQ and overall performance, and think only 8x/200mm isn't too much a sacrifice there if you can rely on that.

But then you see the price....ugh

Compact Superzooms, it doesn't look like manufacturers have made any real efforts in the (sub?)category, surely they must have though for several years already that smartphones will take the lead. Well, while they're not wrong they're not right either, good superzoom photophones are still fantasy.

My feeling is that a lot of issues with those pocket superzooms could be fixed through  custom firmwares, removing the superfluous and sometimes funky auto-features, arranging the controls in a clearer, more straightforward and explicite fashion.

Even without custom firmwares, just well implemented user profiles systems could save a lot of hassle, but there are none AFAIK.

At that - as you say appropriately 'mass-produced' - level, maybe manufacturers care more about the whole presentation and list of marketable features, than what matters the most: the camera performance, quality and useability.

If it takes solid experience in photography (not 'just' advancing-beginner or already a bit trained-amateur), plus complete mastery of the devices to get the best out of them, then that's a paradox considering the segment/price range they're in.

Part of their potential is wasted because of that IMHO, when you see that they're still able to take great shots (which takes more 10 tries than 3 for me as I've mentioned, even considering a combination of preparedness and luck)

And it is strange that between those (SX7**, RV/RX**, SZ/TZ**) and an IQ the likes of the RX100 VI offers, there is almost nothing, nothing besides the ZS100 and ZS200 which aren't exactly mid-range wonders, either because the quality and performance aren't that big improvements over the formers when they're at their best, or because the price (esp. the ZS200's) isn't that good for what you get (comparing the two I understand why the ZS100 is still recommended)

Though get those two a custom firmware that adds more/better/finer options for controlling the smoothing or sharpening treatment of the jpegs, and they'd already be significantly more attractive.

Anyway, I guess smartphones will deal pocket superzooms the last blow the day they manage decent 200~300mm/8x~10x by whatever means, which could happen in only a few years from now, and there won't be any room left for potential better standalone cameras in that category.

@TheAlex/OP: sorry for the indeed rather harsh rant about pocket superzoooms, I did not mean to hijack the thread and discourage you to purchase one, just wanted to share my experience and I got carried away. Final word; yes, even if the IQ is often disappointing they're still convenient, but only get one if you find a good deal, definitely don't pay the full current market price for any of those.

Wugzz wrote:

n00b opinion here; I've had a SX720 for a year and I have to say I'm a bit disappointed, and from what I've read and seen most pocket superzooms IQ disappoints.

NOT because those can't take quality shots, rather because they're not designed well-enough so that the quality would be consistent.

I mean without major preparation and hassle, only about 10% of your pictures will look the best your camera can technically produce.

The other 90% will look slightly off focus or blurred, lacking the details, contrast and colors you would wish for, VS. your relatively recent smartphone now curiously nailing all that better for a much higher success ratio and without hassle (sure "no optical zoom not the same deal" blah blah, but still the comparison is irritating)

The reasons are multiple and complicated IMO;

- the stabilizer can work great for long distances but will still miss its best most times. tripod and even remote shutter are super important if you want the best. unfortunately something like remote BT or NFC shutter isn't a thing at this level whatever the name brand (forget smartphone apps that devour both the camera's and the phone's batteries so fast it's hilarious). You can only delay then hands off if you want to be sure.

- the AF won't always best adjust at the right time, no matter how you tweak its settings you can't rely on it too much, and the assist options are a joke. BTW the person who invented halfway shutter button pressure will definitely go to Hell.

- whatever PASM some settings you'd better think about before picking a mode will get in the way, and ruin it if you chose wrong forcing you to go back all the way, but on those little cameras proud of their menus-heavy firmwares and fancy names features, what the settings really do in practice feels borderline esoteric.

- trying to go full manual means dealing with tiny ill-placed controls, sometimes lacking detailed-enough info on the display, and several settings would be much better with additional physical controls.

- the tiny display doesn't translate what's going on nor how your picture will turn out well-enough. The right exposure? focus? you won't know that just looking at that display. I'm not sure the Pana/Sony models featuring a small EVF would be so much better for that, it seem their main purpose here is to help in broad sunlight period.

- yeah so after a while you realize the truth: your camera has hidden sweet spots which are the only occurences when you'll get actually good quality pictures...but they're very elusive, hard to identify and it's preposterous to think anyone can easily find and master them, those pocket cameras were not thought for that purpose, before everything they're point-zoom-shoots.

To conclude I'll say this is a poor product segment whispering "tumbleweeds, man! tumbleweeds..."

Canon SX7**, Panasonic ZS/TS**, Sony HV**, all three series appear on the same level IQ and design-wise, all making you think they only give their best like 10% times and not thanks to your efforts with their half-baked controls and features, but mostly by luck.

I've looked up (1") but there's not much choice, the Panasonic ZS100 and ZS200 don't provide a significant-enough increase in IQ to justify the much shorter zoom, and the design/controls seem barely improved over the other lesser sensor compact superzooms.

The only actually good one seems to be the Sony RX100 VI, of which you can apparently trust the IQ and overall performance, and think only 8x/200mm isn't too much a sacrifice there if you can rely on that.

But then you see the price....ugh

Compact Superzooms, it doesn't look like manufacturers have made any real efforts in the (sub?)category, surely they must have though for several years already that smartphones will take the lead. Well, while they're not wrong they're not right either, good superzoom photophones are still fantasy.

That's the complete opposite of my experience with the SX730 and I have 3 copies of that camera. I would say the number of blurry shots is less than 5% and that is being conservative it's probably less if I actually measured it. Now of course if one is not using it right any camera will give you over 90% blurry images. Don't let the camera pick the AF point is biggest factor. Also use proper exposure and never use auto with any point and shoot camera. Make sure stabilization is turned on, etc. etc. Even the first time I ever used the sx730 I was getting over 95% sharp shots at 960mm in poor lighting conditions/light rain (shown in first picture set below).

A common mistake for beginners is trying to shoot long range at slow shutter speeds. That is not going to work well on any camera (except with a tripod and self timer and no wind or ground vibration).

Image stabilization on this camera is incredibly good and way beyond any DSLR plus OS/VR/VC lenses I've shot. As a case in point look at the handheld 960mm photos above. Those are not 1 good shot in a string of photos but represent every shot in the string of photos. Maybe one blurry one in a big shot string but I doubt it. AF is really good (will not catch BIF though which is to be expected) and IS is incredibly good.

Bridge un-zoomed in the rain, handheld

Bridge fully-zoomed, in the rain, handheld

Ship at middle right, un-zoomed, handlheld, in the rain

Ship fully-zoomed, handlheld, in the rain

Ship fully-zoomed, you can almost read the two dials in the center right (two round dials above the medium sized window on the bridge) which is nuts, even in good weather, much less in the rain, much less handheld

No-zoom. Focus is on the left side of the little round tower. Handheld

Full-zoom. Focus is on the left side of the little round tower. Handheld

Full-zoom. Focus is on the left side of the little round tower. Handheld

saaber1 wrote:

NextShowForSure wrote:

saaber1 wrote:

You may want to consider the sx730is, it's is very cheap at $200ish for a refurb and fits in your pocket.

Where in the UK would he get a refurb? I only ever see them on the Canon US web site and do they post to the UK and would they guarantee them overseas?...

Dunno about uk refurbs. Maybe call Canon and see what they do with their refurbs? If you buy from USA from a non-canon place do they charge some tariff or taxes if mailed to U.K.?

No need to call Canon as it seems pretty clear they sell them only in the USA. I am just pointing out that talking to a UK OP about refurbs without giving him a link to where they can be obtained and delivered is not really a lot of use. The US site only gives US delivery details and only talks about overseas delivery for accessories.

I would assume Canon have no international warranty so anything bought in the US from the UK would be the dreaded grey market pariah product and shunned by Canon as wholly unclean if it broke and indeed the user possibly barred for eternity from entry at Heaven's gates. There is no greater sin as far as the camera companies go.

if i could go back and start again I would buy everything from Hong Kong as the warranty is just a massively over priced condition laden insurance probably not worth the massive jack up in local prices especially in the UK and not much does go wrong.

Canon had a sale last year where they had refurb sx730is plus a printer (small one) plus ink refills plus paper plus 16GB sd card for $200. I couldn't pass it up so I bought 3 of them! So now I have 3 extra printers etc. gathering dust ha ha. I turned one of the sx730is into a night vision camera by removing IR filter and coupled it with infrared only flashlight. Only problem is range of camera is virtually unlimited but range of IR light is limited. Maybe I need to try some type of laser or something and try to take night vision shots of something a mile away or something. Whats cool is it works when there is zero ambient light. It's not a light gathering type night vision, it is monochrome IR. I've also been experimenting with putting it on a rifle scope which works just o.k. so far. Real night vision scopes are like $3k or more.

TheAlex wrote:

The SX60 is capable of good pictures (apart from in low light) - are any of the lighter weight Powershot zoom cameras as good, image quality wise? The SX60 tips my scales at 720g/1.6 lb - heavier than the claimed weight.

The G3 X is out of my price range (budget up to £450ish/US$600), and the 25x zoom may be a little short. I rarely use the full 65x zoom on the SX60.

My main camera is the G1 X Mark III, but I like to have a spare camera anyway. I'm still wondering if I should look into mirrorless cameras, though those I've looked at are expensive too. I'd be happy with something of similar image quality to the SX60, but a maximum of around 500g.

I'm a lightweight backpacker, so every 100g saved can make a big difference on a long walk!

I've seen criticism of the SX60 in these forums, so here's the sort of thing I'm aiming for:

They print well up to 16x12", even the final one which looks grainy onscreen as low as ISO 160 - it was low light.

There is the Panasonic ZS200 which is a 15x 1" with an EVF so probably a bit short but light. It does get flack for having a soft lens but how soft soft is is difficult to measure but it is a long reach lightweight 1" sensor camera. For some of the more enthusiastic Sony aficionados Canon lenses as with Panasonic are far too soft to be of any use whatsoever so difficult to tell how practical these assessments for the average less discerning user.

This is a great, and very timely thread.  Appreciate everyone's feedback.

My question is--how are all these with video?  Especially at twilight, or maybe indoors in restaurants?

I was really looking forward to the G7X Mark III, which is allegedly right around the corner.  But truth is, I have a trip coming up, and it simply won't be available in time.

I need an ultra-compact for some photos, but mostly video.  The flip-up screen is a must.  I am thinking about trying one of these significantly-less-expensive models to see how it does, or at least bridge me to the G7X Mark III.  (The Sony RX models are simply too expensive.)

Looking forward to any feedback.  Much appreciated, folks!