Pentax 26mp APSC in the works

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Historicity Senior Member • Posts: 1,917
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works
2

DougOB wrote:

bob5050 wrote:

DougOB wrote:

5r82 wrote:

They better come with K-1 III with 50 Mpx in 2020. In crop mode this camera would give 33 Mpx and that is already more than 26 Mpx. So, Pentaxian having both full frame and APS-C lenses would be happy...

Except that I do want a camera that big and heavy...

But 5r82 still has a point. No one with a reasonable number of DA lenses and on the fence about 'moving up' is going to buy a FF camera that then gives them less resolution than they already have. A crop mode of > 24-26mpx might encourage more current APS-C owners to upsize.

Me, I'm still holding out for the K3.next.

I would say "might" is the operative word here. Have we every done a survey on why APS users have not moved to FF? cost? size? Or conversely what would make them move.

Doug

The word "move" might be a debatable word in what you've just said above. I am not alone in having added the K1 and then the upgrade to K1ii without having gotten rid of any [some got rid of "some" but not "all"] of my APS-C cameras or lenses. I initially wanted the K1 in order to make better use of the excellent quality film-era Pentax lenses. A 26MP Pentax APS-C camera appeals to me for its potential of making "better" use of Pentax LTD lenses.

Lawrence

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DougOB
DougOB Senior Member • Posts: 1,107
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works
1

Historicity wrote:

DougOB wrote:

bob5050 wrote:

DougOB wrote:

5r82 wrote:

They better come with K-1 III with 50 Mpx in 2020. In crop mode this camera would give 33 Mpx and that is already more than 26 Mpx. So, Pentaxian having both full frame and APS-C lenses would be happy...

Except that I do want a camera that big and heavy...

But 5r82 still has a point. No one with a reasonable number of DA lenses and on the fence about 'moving up' is going to buy a FF camera that then gives them less resolution than they already have. A crop mode of > 24-26mpx might encourage more current APS-C owners to upsize.

Me, I'm still holding out for the K3.next.

I would say "might" is the operative word here. Have we every done a survey on why APS users have not moved to FF? cost? size? Or conversely what would make them move.

Doug

The word "move" might be a debatable word in what you've just said above. I am not alone in having added the K1 and then the upgrade to K1ii without having gotten rid of any [some got rid of "some" but not "all"] of my APS-C cameras or lenses. I initially wanted the K1 in order to make better use of the excellent quality film-era Pentax lenses. A 26MP Pentax APS-C camera appeals to me for its potential of making "better" use of Pentax LTD lenses.

Lawrence

You are right, "move" is a poor choice of words on my part.  I would not toss my KP were I to get a K-1.  "Buy into..." maybe? "Invest in..."?

A related example, this week a friend of mine with a K-5 and numerous DA lenses just bought (on sale) a Nikon D500 and AF-S 200-500 lens for sports and wildlife because for this use there wasn't a suitable (for him) Pentax equivalent.  He is keeping all his Pentax gear for more day to day use.

Doug

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Historicity Senior Member • Posts: 1,917
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works

DougOB wrote:

Historicity wrote:

DougOB wrote:

bob5050 wrote:

DougOB wrote:

5r82 wrote:

They better come with K-1 III with 50 Mpx in 2020. In crop mode this camera would give 33 Mpx and that is already more than 26 Mpx. So, Pentaxian having both full frame and APS-C lenses would be happy...

Except that I do want a camera that big and heavy...

But 5r82 still has a point. No one with a reasonable number of DA lenses and on the fence about 'moving up' is going to buy a FF camera that then gives them less resolution than they already have. A crop mode of > 24-26mpx might encourage more current APS-C owners to upsize.

Me, I'm still holding out for the K3.next.

I would say "might" is the operative word here. Have we every done a survey on why APS users have not moved to FF? cost? size? Or conversely what would make them move.

Doug

The word "move" might be a debatable word in what you've just said above. I am not alone in having added the K1 and then the upgrade to K1ii without having gotten rid of any [some got rid of "some" but not "all"] of my APS-C cameras or lenses. I initially wanted the K1 in order to make better use of the excellent quality film-era Pentax lenses. A 26MP Pentax APS-C camera appeals to me for its potential of making "better" use of Pentax LTD lenses.

Lawrence

You are right, "move" is a poor choice of words on my part. I would not toss my KP were I to get a K-1. "Buy into..." maybe? "Invest in..."?

A related example, this week a friend of mine with a K-5 and numerous DA lenses just bought (on sale) a Nikon D500 and AF-S 200-500 lens for sports and wildlife because for this use there wasn't a suitable (for him) Pentax equivalent. He is keeping all his Pentax gear for more day to day use.

Doug

Doug,

I did something very like your friend did.  I bought a Nikon D500 on sale intending to use it for birding.  But birds in my region, other than crows and hawks are not easy to spot while hiking and so I never got very far with D500 birding.  But after reading a lot on forums and in reviews about Nikon I did acquire a lot more of it.  And, just like your friend, I intend to keep all my Pentax gear.  I wouldn't use the expression "for more day to day use.". . I'm retired and take photographs mostly on hikes.

Lawrence

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DougOB
DougOB Senior Member • Posts: 1,107
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works
1

Historicity wrote:

DougOB wrote:

Historicity wrote:

DougOB wrote:

bob5050 wrote:

DougOB wrote:

5r82 wrote:

They better come with K-1 III with 50 Mpx in 2020. In crop mode this camera would give 33 Mpx and that is already more than 26 Mpx. So, Pentaxian having both full frame and APS-C lenses would be happy...

Except that I do want a camera that big and heavy...

But 5r82 still has a point. No one with a reasonable number of DA lenses and on the fence about 'moving up' is going to buy a FF camera that then gives them less resolution than they already have. A crop mode of > 24-26mpx might encourage more current APS-C owners to upsize.

Me, I'm still holding out for the K3.next.

I would say "might" is the operative word here. Have we every done a survey on why APS users have not moved to FF? cost? size? Or conversely what would make them move.

Doug

The word "move" might be a debatable word in what you've just said above. I am not alone in having added the K1 and then the upgrade to K1ii without having gotten rid of any [some got rid of "some" but not "all"] of my APS-C cameras or lenses. I initially wanted the K1 in order to make better use of the excellent quality film-era Pentax lenses. A 26MP Pentax APS-C camera appeals to me for its potential of making "better" use of Pentax LTD lenses.

Lawrence

You are right, "move" is a poor choice of words on my part. I would not toss my KP were I to get a K-1. "Buy into..." maybe? "Invest in..."?

A related example, this week a friend of mine with a K-5 and numerous DA lenses just bought (on sale) a Nikon D500 and AF-S 200-500 lens for sports and wildlife because for this use there wasn't a suitable (for him) Pentax equivalent. He is keeping all his Pentax gear for more day to day use.

Doug

Doug,

I did something very like your friend did. I bought a Nikon D500 on sale intending to use it for birding. But birds in my region, other than crows and hawks are not easy to spot while hiking and so I never got very far with D500 birding. But after reading a lot on forums and in reviews about Nikon I did acquire a lot more of it. And, just like your friend, I intend to keep all my Pentax gear. I wouldn't use the expression "for more day to day use.". . I'm retired and take photographs mostly on hikes.

Lawrence

Actually my friend (boardhead62) said that his new Nikon kit (only lens 200-500) would not be his walk around kit.  This is why...

We all have different use cases...

Doug

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Historicity Senior Member • Posts: 1,917
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works
1

DougOB wrote:

Historicity wrote:

DougOB wrote:

Historicity wrote:

DougOB wrote:

bob5050 wrote:

DougOB wrote:

5r82 wrote:

They better come with K-1 III with 50 Mpx in 2020. In crop mode this camera would give 33 Mpx and that is already more than 26 Mpx. So, Pentaxian having both full frame and APS-C lenses would be happy...

Except that I do want a camera that big and heavy...

But 5r82 still has a point. No one with a reasonable number of DA lenses and on the fence about 'moving up' is going to buy a FF camera that then gives them less resolution than they already have. A crop mode of > 24-26mpx might encourage more current APS-C owners to upsize.

Me, I'm still holding out for the K3.next.

I would say "might" is the operative word here. Have we every done a survey on why APS users have not moved to FF? cost? size? Or conversely what would make them move.

Doug

The word "move" might be a debatable word in what you've just said above. I am not alone in having added the K1 and then the upgrade to K1ii without having gotten rid of any [some got rid of "some" but not "all"] of my APS-C cameras or lenses. I initially wanted the K1 in order to make better use of the excellent quality film-era Pentax lenses. A 26MP Pentax APS-C camera appeals to me for its potential of making "better" use of Pentax LTD lenses.

Lawrence

You are right, "move" is a poor choice of words on my part. I would not toss my KP were I to get a K-1. "Buy into..." maybe? "Invest in..."?

A related example, this week a friend of mine with a K-5 and numerous DA lenses just bought (on sale) a Nikon D500 and AF-S 200-500 lens for sports and wildlife because for this use there wasn't a suitable (for him) Pentax equivalent. He is keeping all his Pentax gear for more day to day use.

Doug

Doug,

I did something very like your friend did. I bought a Nikon D500 on sale intending to use it for birding. But birds in my region, other than crows and hawks are not easy to spot while hiking and so I never got very far with D500 birding. But after reading a lot on forums and in reviews about Nikon I did acquire a lot more of it. And, just like your friend, I intend to keep all my Pentax gear. I wouldn't use the expression "for more day to day use.". . I'm retired and take photographs mostly on hikes.

Lawrence

Actually my friend (boardhead62) said that his new Nikon kit (only lens 200-500) would not be his walk around kit. This is why...

We all have different use cases...

Doug

  I have often thought that if I could no longer hike I might retire from my retirement to some remote area in Idaho near my daughter -- to some cabin with a second story balcony looking out on a wooded area where there were birds.  I would get a tripod and a long lens and see if I could photograph any of them. 

Lawrence

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Oiche Senior Member • Posts: 1,289
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works

Historicity wrote:

DougOB wrote:

bob5050 wrote:

DougOB wrote:

5r82 wrote:

They better come with K-1 III with 50 Mpx in 2020. In crop mode this camera would give 33 Mpx and that is already more than 26 Mpx. So, Pentaxian having both full frame and APS-C lenses would be happy...

Except that I do want a camera that big and heavy...

But 5r82 still has a point. No one with a reasonable number of DA lenses and on the fence about 'moving up' is going to buy a FF camera that then gives them less resolution than they already have. A crop mode of > 24-26mpx might encourage more current APS-C owners to upsize.

Me, I'm still holding out for the K3.next.

I would say "might" is the operative word here. Have we every done a survey on why APS users have not moved to FF? cost? size? Or conversely what would make them move.

Doug

The word "move" might be a debatable word in what you've just said above. I am not alone in having added the K1 and then the upgrade to K1ii without having gotten rid of any [some got rid of "some" but not "all"] of my APS-C cameras or lenses. I initially wanted the K1 in order to make better use of the excellent quality film-era Pentax lenses. A 26MP Pentax APS-C camera appeals to me for its potential of making "better" use of Pentax LTD lenses.

Makes a lot of sense about getting the best out of the LTD lenses but no point if you already have 24MP. The jump for me from K-30 to K-70 was a great upgrade allowing 22% bigger prints as well as all other improvements.

26MP over 24MP prints only yields 4% bigger prints or cropping!!!!!

I find the modern Pentax lenses including the LTDs are way better than most film era lenses even for APS-C, lenses like 20-40 Limited are simply fantastic with the HD coatings for a landscape photographer especially...

If I had a K1 I'd be wanting the DFA lenses, although the cost, size and weight, and the fact that the APSC is so good means I'm not lusting after the system but could pick up a cheap used one someday.

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DougOB
DougOB Senior Member • Posts: 1,107
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works

Oiche wrote:

Historicity wrote:

DougOB wrote:

bob5050 wrote:

DougOB wrote:

5r82 wrote:

They better come with K-1 III with 50 Mpx in 2020. In crop mode this camera would give 33 Mpx and that is already more than 26 Mpx. So, Pentaxian having both full frame and APS-C lenses would be happy...

Except that I do want a camera that big and heavy...

But 5r82 still has a point. No one with a reasonable number of DA lenses and on the fence about 'moving up' is going to buy a FF camera that then gives them less resolution than they already have. A crop mode of > 24-26mpx might encourage more current APS-C owners to upsize.

Me, I'm still holding out for the K3.next.

I would say "might" is the operative word here. Have we every done a survey on why APS users have not moved to FF? cost? size? Or conversely what would make them move.

Doug

The word "move" might be a debatable word in what you've just said above. I am not alone in having added the K1 and then the upgrade to K1ii without having gotten rid of any [some got rid of "some" but not "all"] of my APS-C cameras or lenses. I initially wanted the K1 in order to make better use of the excellent quality film-era Pentax lenses. A 26MP Pentax APS-C camera appeals to me for its potential of making "better" use of Pentax LTD lenses.

Makes a lot of sense about getting the best out of the LTD lenses but no point if you already have 24MP. The jump for me from K-30 to K-70 was a great upgrade allowing 22% bigger prints as well as all other improvements.

26MP over 24MP prints only yields 4% bigger prints or cropping!!!!!

I find the modern Pentax lenses including the LTDs are way better than most film era lenses even for APS-C, lenses like 20-40 Limited are simply fantastic with the HD coatings for a landscape photographer especially...

If I had a K1 I'd be wanting the DFA lenses, although the cost, size and weight, and the fact that the APSC is so good means I'm not lusting after the system but could pick up a cheap used one someday.

"might", "move"... ya "lust" is the word

Cheers,

Doug

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Massao Senior Member • Posts: 1,365
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works

Oiche wrote:

Historicity wrote:

DougOB wrote:

bob5050 wrote:

DougOB wrote:

5r82 wrote:

They better come with K-1 III with 50 Mpx in 2020. In crop mode this camera would give 33 Mpx and that is already more than 26 Mpx. So, Pentaxian having both full frame and APS-C lenses would be happy...

Except that I do want a camera that big and heavy...

But 5r82 still has a point. No one with a reasonable number of DA lenses and on the fence about 'moving up' is going to buy a FF camera that then gives them less resolution than they already have. A crop mode of > 24-26mpx might encourage more current APS-C owners to upsize.

Me, I'm still holding out for the K3.next.

I would say "might" is the operative word here. Have we every done a survey on why APS users have not moved to FF? cost? size? Or conversely what would make them move.

Doug

The word "move" might be a debatable word in what you've just said above. I am not alone in having added the K1 and then the upgrade to K1ii without having gotten rid of any [some got rid of "some" but not "all"] of my APS-C cameras or lenses. I initially wanted the K1 in order to make better use of the excellent quality film-era Pentax lenses. A 26MP Pentax APS-C camera appeals to me for its potential of making "better" use of Pentax LTD lenses.

26MP over 24MP prints only yields 4% bigger prints or cropping!!!!!

Yes, the over all improvement in sensor quality (technology) is way more important than the extra 2MP.

I find the modern Pentax lenses including the LTDs are way better than most film era lenses even for APS-C, ...

True. Limited lenses for Pentax APS-C are excellent and light weight. No need to carry the extra weight of a FF camera when there are ample good DA limited lenses available.

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Kind regards,
Massao
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bob5050 Contributing Member • Posts: 929
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works

Historicity wrote:

The word "move" might be a debatable word [...]

The terms 'move' vs 'expand' are terms we all have to think about.

I really don't see a need to move up to FF--it's a size/weight thing for me as well as the fact that I'm entirely DA lens based.

But w/o a K-3 replacement in sight, I had to think frequently about getting a KP--mostly for the sensor/low light improvement. But I think even though I'd hate giving up the dual SD cards, I have to admit that the real block for me was doubling up the logistics--not wanting to pack two chargers and two different battery sizes. When I got the K-3, I sold the K-30 for the same reason--didn't want to have to pack two different support set-ups.

Hopefully, when the k3.next comes out it will still use the LI90. If so, I can keep both bodies.

bob5050

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justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 8,256
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works
2

Plakanina wrote:

A new APSC with 26mp in 2020 not a K3 replacement that camera is history this will be NEW flagship

By 2020, 30-something-MP APS-C sensors will probably be available.

Labe
MOD Labe Veteran Member • Posts: 9,962
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works
2

Full range here lol

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Heliar Forum Member • Posts: 94
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works

I wonder if it's possible for Pentax to return to CCD sensors. Sure, this tech is not the best for high ISO shooting, but the base ISO performance is absolute awesomeness, and for higher ISO, that Accelerator Unit thingy could do the job.

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Massao Senior Member • Posts: 1,365
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works

Labe wrote:

Full range here lol

Oh dear me...painful to see ...LOL

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Zvonimir Tosic
Zvonimir Tosic Senior Member • Posts: 2,946
Impossible resolution
2

Plakanina wrote:

A new APSC with 26mp in 2020 not a K3 replacement that camera is history this will be NEW flagship

if it were true, 26MP resolution would require fractions of a pixel to work out.

the maximum practical resolution of 25,958,400 pixels, that Fujifilm camera achieves, falls over 40,000 pixels below the mark and barely 1.9 MP over the resolution of a 24MP sensor. When distributed geometrically, it adds about 3% increase horizontally and vertically. Negligible.

the question follows: is this "26MP" sensor just the same old 24MP but with a fraction of a mm wider surface, which any crop lens covers anyway?

in other words, marketing attempt to sell porridge as bouillie de riz.

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Historicity Senior Member • Posts: 1,917
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works

Heliar wrote:

I wonder if it's possible for Pentax to return to CCD sensors. Sure, this tech is not the best for high ISO shooting, but the base ISO performance is absolute awesomeness, and for higher ISO, that Accelerator Unit thingy could do the job.

I read about this a while back.  Early cameras used the Kodak CCD sensor, for example the Olympus E1, Olympus E500, and Nikon D200 (these are just the ones I have, but there are others).  I read that CCD sensors were more expensive to manufacture than CMOS.  Also, CMOS sensors were better at controlling noise; so (if I'm remembering this correctly) it is unlikely that anyone will use a CCD sensor in the future.

Lawrence

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bob5050 Contributing Member • Posts: 929
Re: Pentax 26mp APSC in the works

Historicity wrote:

CMOS. Also, CMOS sensors were better at controlling noise; so (if I'm remembering this correctly) it is unlikely that anyone will use a CCD sensor in the future.

Lawrence

Not aware of any current large-sensor cameras that use CCD, but the Canon Elph 190 does, so they're still around.

bob5050

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Fogel70
Fogel70 Senior Member • Posts: 1,287
Re: Impossible resolution
1

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

Plakanina wrote:

A new APSC with 26mp in 2020 not a K3 replacement that camera is history this will be NEW flagship

if it were true, 26MP resolution would require fractions of a pixel to work out.

the maximum practical resolution of 25,958,400 pixels, that Fujifilm camera achieves, falls over 40,000 pixels below the mark and barely 1.9 MP over the resolution of a 24MP sensor. When distributed geometrically, it adds about 3% increase horizontally and vertically. Negligible.

the question follows: is this "26MP" sensor just the same old 24MP but with a fraction of a mm wider surface, which any crop lens covers anyway?

in other words, marketing attempt to sell porridge as bouillie de riz.

It is new sensor generation. It looks to be based on the sensor tech from the new BSI 100MP and 150MP medium format sensors Sony introduced some time ago. The 26MP APS-C sensor has the same pixel pitch as these MF sensors.

26MP APS-C - Sony imx571

100MP MF crop - Sony imx461

150 MP MF FF - Sony imx411

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/IS/sensor2/products/index.html

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Alex Sarbu Forum Pro • Posts: 10,139
Nonsense
1

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

Plakanina wrote:

A new APSC with 26mp in 2020 not a K3 replacement that camera is history this will be NEW flagship

if it were true, 26MP resolution would require fractions of a pixel to work out.

the maximum practical resolution of 25,958,400 pixels, that Fujifilm camera achieves, falls over 40,000 pixels below the mark and barely 1.9 MP over the resolution of a 24MP sensor. When distributed geometrically, it adds about 3% increase horizontally and vertically. Negligible.

the question follows: is this "26MP" sensor just the same old 24MP but with a fraction of a mm wider surface, which any crop lens covers anyway?

As expected, your post doesn't make any sense.

The 26MP sensor - assumed to be the Sony IMX571 - is obviously unrelated to the old 24MP. The list of differences is extensive, including the higher number of pixels, the fact that it's a back-illuminated sensor, high readout speed, 16-bit readout (16-bit AD/C included). It has about 26.78MP total pixels, and 26.02 active pixels though the latter I guess can be customized a bit.

And its APS-C sized.

Alex

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awaldram
awaldram Forum Pro • Posts: 13,270
Re: Nonsense
5

Alex Sarbu wrote:

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

Plakanina wrote:

A new APSC with 26mp in 2020 not a K3 replacement that camera is history this will be NEW flagship

if it were true, 26MP resolution would require fractions of a pixel to work out.

the maximum practical resolution of 25,958,400 pixels, that Fujifilm camera achieves, falls over 40,000 pixels below the mark and barely 1.9 MP over the resolution of a 24MP sensor. When distributed geometrically, it adds about 3% increase horizontally and vertically. Negligible.

the question follows: is this "26MP" sensor just the same old 24MP but with a fraction of a mm wider surface, which any crop lens covers anyway?

As expected, your post doesn't make any sense.

The 26MP sensor - assumed to be the Sony IMX571 - is obviously unrelated to the old 24MP. The list of differences is extensive, including the higher number of pixels, the fact that it's a back-illuminated sensor, high readout speed, 16-bit readout (16-bit AD/C included). It has about 26.78MP total pixels, and 26.02 active pixels though the latter I guess can be customized a bit.

And its APS-C sized.

Alex

So besides

1 lower noise

2 higher bandwidth

3 faster

4 more pixels

just what is the difference .....lmfao

seriously though I don't think is a bad thing similar pixel density but all the modern design improvements.

My own feeling is that 20-30Mp is the sweet spot for aps-C offering High DR great low light and decent pixel density  .

As technology moves forward the improve power handling and all the above benefits would provide plenty of incentive for a new camera.

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xmeda
xmeda Senior Member • Posts: 1,262
Re: Nonsense
1

Sensor is just one part of final image. DNR processor that recalculates image and deals with noise is the second most important thing. Sensors are now improving just marginally, but with increased computing power of processors (that do benefit from CPU/GPU/mobile chips development) it is possible to reach those high sensitivities and deal with noise better.
And soon there will be time, where sensor size would matter even less. When computing power reaches level that it would be possible to process several images during single frame capture, then even small sensors can reach huge resolution, huge dynamic range and very clean images. Imagine that during 1/500s photo the machine will be able to capture 20 subframes, recalculate them, kill noise by repeated pattern control and use iterated subframes to gain "light" signal in shadow areas where needed and omit "light" signal in bright areas. Then even APS-C sensor might be able to provide something like 40mpix clean images with 25EV dynamic range on seemingly ISO25600 image. Only lens are going to be limiting factor, but also they can be "improved" during processing if camera removes optical issues like CA or weaker resolution by using many subframes to reconstruct one final frame.

We can to this even today. It is the "magical" multi-picture hi res or HDR photo made out of combined frames. But with significantly more powerfull processors future machines are going to be able to do this on the go in real time during each captured frame.
Mobile phone cameras are steaming towards this method, because with multiple subframes even tiny sensor and horrible lens can provide very interesting output.

So guys, sensors are not the only critical part like they used to be in 2004-2012.. nowdays almost all sensors in current cameras have invariant ISO. If you push ISO100 image in PP, the result will be same as setting any ISO in camera.
And multiple subframes taken at base ISO are the next level. Not depending on sensor size or resolution, but on read-out and cleaning speed...

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