Can a shutter count be incorrect?

Started 2 months ago | Questions
dressedlikerappers Junior Member • Posts: 30
Can a shutter count be incorrect?

hey, a bit of a weird/pointless and dumb question but basically I just got a new a7iii, fired off a shot, checked the shot, shutter count was on two websites said it was at 2, all good - I shot it as a fine jpg - i don’t remember taking any more shots after that

I updated my camera to get the new firmware and took another photo and the shutter count was now at 5? - different sd card, shot in extra fine + raw.

because i shot it on two different SD cards I can’t get the file names to align.

if I didn’t shoot off any other snaps (which I’m really not entirely sure of, but I don’t generally delete stuff so I want to say I didn’t) - any chance the original reading of 2 shots was wrong?

reason for investigating is I’m annoyingly pedantic and Sony a7iii’s don’t come factory sealed in Australia anymore so i wanted to see if it had been used before. Thanks for humouring me!

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Ed Constable Regular Member • Posts: 174
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

Are you using Live View? If so, the shutter count can increase more than the number of images you shoot.

But it is probably not worrying about. Just check that you have put bracketing on

Ed

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SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 7,487
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?
4

Ed Constable wrote:

Are you using Live View? If so, the shutter count can increase more than the number of images you shoot.

But it is probably not worrying about. Just check that you have put bracketing on

Ed

What "Live View" are you talking about? There's no such thing for mirrorless cameras.

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SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 7,487
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?
3

Firmware update may have forced a hot pixel remap, which requires firing the shutter.

Or bracketing. Or HDR. Or twilight mode / MFNR.

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RealCereal Contributing Member • Posts: 528
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?
1

dressedlikerappers wrote:

hey, a bit of a weird/pointless and dumb question but basically I just got a new a7iii, fired off a shot, checked the shot, shutter count was on two websites said it was at 2, all good - I shot it as a fine jpg - i don’t remember taking any more shots after that

I updated my camera to get the new firmware and took another photo and the shutter count was now at 5? - different sd card, shot in extra fine + raw.

because i shot it on two different SD cards I can’t get the file names to align.

if I didn’t shoot off any other snaps (which I’m really not entirely sure of, but I don’t generally delete stuff so I want to say I didn’t) - any chance the original reading of 2 shots was wrong?

reason for investigating is I’m annoyingly pedantic and Sony a7iii’s don’t come factory sealed in Australia anymore so i wanted to see if it had been used before. Thanks for humouring me!

the A7III has an estimated ~200K shutter life. Unless you are shooting timelapses all day I don't think you'll hit that before a new camera body comes out

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Guito55 Forum Member • Posts: 70
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

dressedlikerappers wrote:

hey, a bit of a weird/pointless and dumb question but basically I just got a new a7iii, fired off a shot, checked the shot, shutter count was on two websites said it was at 2, all good - I shot it as a fine jpg - i don’t remember taking any more shots after that

I updated my camera to get the new firmware and took another photo and the shutter count was now at 5? - different sd card, shot in extra fine + raw.

because i shot it on two different SD cards I can’t get the file names to align.

if I didn’t shoot off any other snaps (which I’m really not entirely sure of, but I don’t generally delete stuff so I want to say I didn’t) - any chance the original reading of 2 shots was wrong?

reason for investigating is I’m annoyingly pedantic and Sony a7iii’s don’t come factory sealed in Australia anymore so i wanted to see if it had been used before. Thanks for humouring me!

What program are you using to get the shutter count?

OP dressedlikerappers Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

SQLGuy wrote:

Firmware update may have forced a hot pixel remap, which requires firing the shutter.

Or bracketing. Or HDR. Or twilight mode / MFNR.

that’s not a bad thought. do you think it’s possible that the original shutter count was wrong or is that not a thing and it’s more likely it’s this/that I took two other photos, deleted em, and forgot.

OP dressedlikerappers Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

I used a couple of the weblink ones that first come up on google

a7sastro Contributing Member • Posts: 779
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

FWIW,

one can verify this with simple self experimenting.

The "Silent Shutter" setting where there is no mechanical shutter activation can also add to the count, but not linearly. I believer once every camera power-on or something. No real care on the specifics since it can easily be determined by experiment. I've mentioned it before once on here with specifics.

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OP dressedlikerappers Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

a7sastro wrote:

FWIW,

one can verify this with simple self experimenting.

The "Silent Shutter" setting where there is no mechanical shutter activation can also add to the count, but not linearly. I believer once every camera power-on or something. No real care on the specifics since it can easily be determined by experiment. I've mentioned it before once on here with specifics.

interesting - but I hadn’t changed it to silent shutter at all?

OP dressedlikerappers Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

just out of curiosity is there anyway to tell if an image was shot with DRO on - i’m guessing because I just snapped off a shot immediately after putting the battery in, it was all on the settings the camera had set from start up so the DRO could possibly have been on - would that be in the meta data or on the camera at all?

XeroJay
XeroJay Senior Member • Posts: 2,063
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?
1

a7sastro wrote:

FWIW,

one can verify this with simple self experimenting.

The "Silent Shutter" setting where there is no mechanical shutter activation can also add to the count, but not linearly. I believer once every camera power-on or something. No real care on the specifics since it can easily be determined by experiment. I've mentioned it before once on here with specifics.

Images taken with silent shutter do not add to the shutter count. I've tested this.

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Paul Barnard
Paul Barnard Senior Member • Posts: 2,945
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

dressedlikerappers wrote:

hey, a bit of a weird/pointless and dumb question but basically I just got a new a7iii, fired off a shot, checked the shot, shutter count was on two websites said it was at 2, all good - I shot it as a fine jpg - i don’t remember taking any more shots after that

I updated my camera to get the new firmware and took another photo and the shutter count was now at 5? - different sd card, shot in extra fine + raw.

because i shot it on two different SD cards I can’t get the file names to align.

if I didn’t shoot off any other snaps (which I’m really not entirely sure of, but I don’t generally delete stuff so I want to say I didn’t) - any chance the original reading of 2 shots was wrong?

reason for investigating is I’m annoyingly pedantic and Sony a7iii’s don’t come factory sealed in Australia anymore so i wanted to see if it had been used before. Thanks for humouring me!

I would say your body was factory fresh. Nothing to worry about there.

The camera looks like it came with one actuation which was probably a test fire in the factory. Your first shutter click made the two.

As already mentioned either the update or simply power cycling might well have triggered the hot pixel mapping function which happens periodically.  Or if you hit the shutter with the lens cap on, or it was simply dark, the camera would take a dark frame for noise reduction resulting in two actuations per shot.

The image ID recorded doesn’t necessarily correspond to the shutter actuations.

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OP dressedlikerappers Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

Paul Barnard wrote:

dressedlikerappers wrote:

hey, a bit of a weird/pointless and dumb question but basically I just got a new a7iii, fired off a shot, checked the shot, shutter count was on two websites said it was at 2, all good - I shot it as a fine jpg - i don’t remember taking any more shots after that

I updated my camera to get the new firmware and took another photo and the shutter count was now at 5? - different sd card, shot in extra fine + raw.

because i shot it on two different SD cards I can’t get the file names to align.

if I didn’t shoot off any other snaps (which I’m really not entirely sure of, but I don’t generally delete stuff so I want to say I didn’t) - any chance the original reading of 2 shots was wrong?

reason for investigating is I’m annoyingly pedantic and Sony a7iii’s don’t come factory sealed in Australia anymore so i wanted to see if it had been used before. Thanks for humouring me!

I would say your body was factory fresh. Nothing to worry about there.

The camera looks like it came with one actuation which was probably a test fire in the factory. Your first shutter click made the two.

As already mentioned either the update or simply power cycling might well have triggered the hot pixel mapping function which happens periodically. Or if you hit the shutter with the lens cap on, or it was simply dark, the camera would take a dark frame for noise reduction resulting in two actuations per shot.

The image ID recorded doesn’t necessarily correspond to the shutter actuations.

starting to come to that conclusion - I know it’s very pedantic but I’m quite (medically diagnosed) ocd about my things haha it’s frustrating as hell but I’m also just curious as to why.

yeah for sure they a7iii’s should all have 1 test shot just can’t figure out how it got from 2 to 5, but for the sake of scratching my head I’m gonna have to assume it was during the update or I took a photo or two by mistake and deleted them and don’t remember. if I took one with the cap on would it actually save it as an image?

I checked this data as actuation counts not image ID

SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 7,487
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

dressedlikerappers wrote:

Paul Barnard wrote:

dressedlikerappers wrote:

hey, a bit of a weird/pointless and dumb question but basically I just got a new a7iii, fired off a shot, checked the shot, shutter count was on two websites said it was at 2, all good - I shot it as a fine jpg - i don’t remember taking any more shots after that

I updated my camera to get the new firmware and took another photo and the shutter count was now at 5? - different sd card, shot in extra fine + raw.

because i shot it on two different SD cards I can’t get the file names to align.

if I didn’t shoot off any other snaps (which I’m really not entirely sure of, but I don’t generally delete stuff so I want to say I didn’t) - any chance the original reading of 2 shots was wrong?

reason for investigating is I’m annoyingly pedantic and Sony a7iii’s don’t come factory sealed in Australia anymore so i wanted to see if it had been used before. Thanks for humouring me!

I would say your body was factory fresh. Nothing to worry about there.

The camera looks like it came with one actuation which was probably a test fire in the factory. Your first shutter click made the two.

As already mentioned either the update or simply power cycling might well have triggered the hot pixel mapping function which happens periodically. Or if you hit the shutter with the lens cap on, or it was simply dark, the camera would take a dark frame for noise reduction resulting in two actuations per shot.

The image ID recorded doesn’t necessarily correspond to the shutter actuations.

starting to come to that conclusion - I know it’s very pedantic but I’m quite (medically diagnosed) ocd about my things haha it’s frustrating as hell but I’m also just curious as to why.

yeah for sure they a7iii’s should all have 1 test shot just can’t figure out how it got from 2 to 5, but for the sake of scratching my head I’m gonna have to assume it was during the update or I took a photo or two by mistake and deleted them and don’t remember. if I took one with the cap on would it actually save it as an image?

I checked this data as actuation counts not image ID

Yes, a dark frame taken with the lens cap on would save a shot.

Not sure whether a custom white balance shot would fire the shutter or not... that might be another possibility.

Also not sure whether EFCS off counts as two actuations per frame... it should, but not sure if it does.

I think you should check your actuation count now; ensure that all multi-frame features are disabled, and that EFCS is on; take five more shots; and verify that that increments the actuation count by 5.

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OP dressedlikerappers Junior Member • Posts: 30
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

SQLGuy wrote:

dressedlikerappers wrote:

Paul Barnard wrote:

dressedlikerappers wrote:

hey, a bit of a weird/pointless and dumb question but basically I just got a new a7iii, fired off a shot, checked the shot, shutter count was on two websites said it was at 2, all good - I shot it as a fine jpg - i don’t remember taking any more shots after that

I updated my camera to get the new firmware and took another photo and the shutter count was now at 5? - different sd card, shot in extra fine + raw.

because i shot it on two different SD cards I can’t get the file names to align.

if I didn’t shoot off any other snaps (which I’m really not entirely sure of, but I don’t generally delete stuff so I want to say I didn’t) - any chance the original reading of 2 shots was wrong?

reason for investigating is I’m annoyingly pedantic and Sony a7iii’s don’t come factory sealed in Australia anymore so i wanted to see if it had been used before. Thanks for humouring me!

I would say your body was factory fresh. Nothing to worry about there.

The camera looks like it came with one actuation which was probably a test fire in the factory. Your first shutter click made the two.

As already mentioned either the update or simply power cycling might well have triggered the hot pixel mapping function which happens periodically. Or if you hit the shutter with the lens cap on, or it was simply dark, the camera would take a dark frame for noise reduction resulting in two actuations per shot.

The image ID recorded doesn’t necessarily correspond to the shutter actuations.

starting to come to that conclusion - I know it’s very pedantic but I’m quite (medically diagnosed) ocd about my things haha it’s frustrating as hell but I’m also just curious as to why.

yeah for sure they a7iii’s should all have 1 test shot just can’t figure out how it got from 2 to 5, but for the sake of scratching my head I’m gonna have to assume it was during the update or I took a photo or two by mistake and deleted them and don’t remember. if I took one with the cap on would it actually save it as an image?

I checked this data as actuation counts not image ID

Yes, a dark frame taken with the lens cap on would save a shot.

Not sure whether a custom white balance shot would fire the shutter or not... that might be another possibility.

Also not sure whether EFCS off counts as two actuations per frame... it should, but not sure if it does.

I think you should check your actuation count now; ensure that all multi-frame features are disabled, and that EFCS is on; take five more shots; and verify that that increments the actuation count by 5.

Sony support suggested that when the camera turns off it occasionally fires the shutter and that counts towards the shutter count? Not sure if he was clutching at straws but that could be right.

I put in a new battery, took the shot, turned it off, charged the battery - put it in - did the firmware - turned it off and then on and then took another shot.

Ed Constable Regular Member • Posts: 174
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

Thanks SQL, I didn’t know that. I kind of assumed that Sony knew what they were talking about.

https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1710/v1/en/contents/TP0001629730.html

Clearly I was wrong. Will you inform Sony?

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SQLGuy Veteran Member • Posts: 7,487
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

Ed Constable wrote:

Thanks SQL, I didn’t know that. I kind of assumed that Sony knew what they were talking about.

https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1710/v1/en/contents/TP0001629730.html

Clearly I was wrong. Will you inform Sony?

Yes, you are still wrong, so I will inform you, not Sony. Read the link you actually shared.

A) Does it say anything about shutter actuations? No, it does not.

B) The setting controls whether the display in the EVF and LCD attempts to estimate the resultant shot's exposure. It is not whether or not Live View is "used". There is no other choice in a Mirrorless. You always get what is called Live View in a DSLR because both the viewfinder and the LCD are fed from the sensor.

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Ed Constable Regular Member • Posts: 174
Re: Can a shutter count be incorrect?

SQL My comment came over far more sarky than intended. It was more an old complaint that Sony uses a vocabulary of its own that does not mesh with other usage and is very often not intuitive.

But I still have a vague memory that there is something a bit odd about it ... but I really can't remember what. I definitely had a doubled count at one stage (but it might have been bracketing). Maybe it was something from when I was playing around with different curtain timings with strobes.

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 4,469
RAW + JPEG

I believe it’s an “image” count, not shutter. It’s not perfect but good estimates. So Raw+JPEG will add two frames. 2-5 is weird unless you were playing with things though.

dressedlikerappers wrote:

hey, a bit of a weird/pointless and dumb question but basically I just got a new a7iii, fired off a shot, checked the shot, shutter count was on two websites said it was at 2, all good - I shot it as a fine jpg - i don’t remember taking any more shots after that

I updated my camera to get the new firmware and took another photo and the shutter count was now at 5? - different sd card, shot in extra fine + raw.

because i shot it on two different SD cards I can’t get the file names to align.

if I didn’t shoot off any other snaps (which I’m really not entirely sure of, but I don’t generally delete stuff so I want to say I didn’t) - any chance the original reading of 2 shots was wrong?

reason for investigating is I’m annoyingly pedantic and Sony a7iii’s don’t come factory sealed in Australia anymore so i wanted to see if it had been used before. Thanks for humouring me!

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