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Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

Started Jun 11, 2019 | Discussions
uuglypher
uuglypher Regular Member • Posts: 250
Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

All comments and critiques welcome

Dave

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uuglypher
"100% of the shots you don't take don't go in!"
Wayne Gretzky

Turbguy1
MOD Turbguy1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,467
Re: Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

It actually strains my eyes to attempt to fuse.  The edges will not fuse.  However, if I transform it like so...

Then I get a very comfortable image...

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Gerry Siegel
Gerry Siegel Veteran Member • Posts: 3,244
Re: Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

I also cannot, -no matter how I try, to get this pair to fuse. Not at all even

So, how was it made may I ask. If you care to give more- info. Simulated 3-D, conversion?

Because got to say it does not seem to be made stereoscopically as a close up. That is my C and C.

Sorry. Does not work for me even a little sir. Possibly you started with a flat photo and are tried the conversion thing....if so, this one  just didn't ring the bell ....IMO.

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uuglypher
OP uuglypher Regular Member • Posts: 250
Re: Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

aTurbguy1 wrote:

It actually strains my eyes to attempt to fuse. The edges will not fuse. However, if I transform it like so...

Then I get a very comfortable image...

Hi, Wayne,

Thanks for looking and commenting.

uuglypher
OP uuglypher Regular Member • Posts: 250
Re: Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

Thanks, Gerry, for looking and commenting.

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uuglypher
"100% of the shots you don't take don't go in!"
Wayne Gretzky

uuglypher
OP uuglypher Regular Member • Posts: 250
Re: Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

Hi, Wayne,

I think it might be fair to point out that by applying the changes, and the realignment that you did with my image pair that resulted in a pair you judged to be comfortable to merge, the reason for that was that you had removed all the specifically intended imposed disparities that have permitted others to perceive the intended 3D effect. you essentially turned my posted image pair into two identical images with no stereopsis potential.

The fact remains that the 3D conversions I prepare using solely calculated patterns of monocular depth cue accentuation are, by many able to free view traditional two-view pairs, easy and comfortable to view. Those patterns of disparity are, explicitly, based on disparate displacements of detail point through the range of horizontal to vertical.

You are absolutely correct in suggesting that there are considerable variations in capacities for binocular depth perception. Development of that capacity begins in infancy with yoked conjugate and disconjugate vergence and accommodation and continues, in most people, to undergo subconscious training that is not complete until late adolescence to early adulthood when the ability to bifoveally see not only horizontally displaced disparities, but also those displaced vetically and all angles in between. It is now recognized that acquisition of such independent eye movements disproves the assumption that the infantile yoking of vergence is not  a low-level reflex.

Those restricted to merging images with only horizontal disparity displacements of the sort that have characterized traditional ortho stereographic image pairs for almost two centuries often encounter eyestrain when challenged by more diverse displacements.

In the paraphrased words of ol’ Carl Gauss (he of “bell-shaped curve” fame), “your mileage may vary”.

Dave

uuglypher
"100% of the shots you don't take don't go in!"
Wayne Gretzky

uuglypher
OP uuglypher Regular Member • Posts: 250
Re: Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

My apologies, Wayne...

That inordinately long second sentence of the third paragraph got away from me. It should have ended with the words “...should be fully developed”.

I would never have let a grad student get away with a sentence like that in his or her dissertation!  Egad...I must be entering my dotage.

Dave

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uuglypher
"100% of the shots you don't take don't go in!"
Wayne Gretzky

Turbguy1
MOD Turbguy1 Senior Member • Posts: 1,467
Re: Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

Yes, the adjustments cancelled out the distortions introduced by your conversion operations. Apparently you began with a 2D image, as that’s what resulted when auto-aligned with one click with SPM.

Regarding the remaining discussion, I have to be adamant that true, accurate 3D/stereoscopic imaging contains disparities in the horizontal plane ONLY. I consider the introduction and presence of significant (greater than say, 1%) vertical disparities as errors in stereoscopic display, to be eliminated, or rejected, for display. My reasoning (other than obvious viewing discomfort it does induce in most observers) is that we have binocular eyes, oriented strictly in a horizontal plane. So do most other high level species. I won’t touch on creatures with plenoptic eyes.

The Bonsai image has some obvious defects, as it was not taken simultaneously. For instance, the cloud shadows have some issues.

That said, there are some exceptions. One of which is a stereo still image that contains specular reflections, such as from a wavy surface of water. While retinal rivalries become common with these reflections, at times there can also be localized vertical disparities. This issue at work is it is a still image of a rapidly moving scene. Without that motion, the still image can appear both “odd”, and still be realistic, as elements surrounding these reflections have the required, and true, horizontal disparity.

Some portion of the population have defects in binocular vision (such as ambliopia, or poor ocular muscle control). They may have experienced vertical disparities due to such maladies, and have grown to accommodate their vision in ways unexpected by those with normal vision. This might be at work with any that find your wildlife conversion as realistic, or even viewable without discomfort. I have normal vision, and I find that conversion very uncomfortable to attempt to fuse, as I see the entire image to be fused at once, with no accommodation for localized distorted areas that will not fuse with the overall image.

Certainly there are operations that could be performed to your wildlife image that would produce a comfortable and realistic stereoscopic image. These operations should be based solely on inducing appropriate horizontal disparities in the stereo pair. Can you attempt that?

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Boris Starosta
Boris Starosta Forum Member • Posts: 53
Re: Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

Dave: I see an image with good potential for stereoscopic 3d content.

I had two impressions upon first viewing the pair.  1. there was some kind of uncomfortable misalignment.  2. there was precious little, if any, actual 3d visible.  I tried both "cross-eyed" and "parallel" free viewing the pairs.  This reinforced my perception of little to no 3d.

Then I went on to read the remainder of the discussion so far.  It seems you converted this from a flat photograph?

In my years as a 3d photographer, I've found that nature subjects - especially macro or close-up - are especially well suited to benefit from true stereoscopic image capture and display.  It follows thus that 3d conversion of such imagery can be especially disappointing: as we notice the "fakeness" of the depth, structural complexity, textures, reflectivity, semi-transparency, etc.  even if they are rendered fairly well.   (which in this case they are not).

I encourage you to try your hand at creating a true stereoscopic image.  You'll obtain much greater satisfaction!   It's not that hard to do, even when using only one single-lens camera.

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Gerry Siegel
Gerry Siegel Veteran Member • Posts: 3,244
Re: Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

No matter how hard you work at it, uuglypher, you can not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.   I would urge you to try your hand at two lens, two image photography.  It is fun.  It works.  It is rewarding.  And it can give pleasure to others.   And preserve memories of people and places long gone.

Cross pair. Paris 1960. Stereo Realist F 3.5 on Kodachrome 25 film.

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uuglypher
OP uuglypher Regular Member • Posts: 250
Re: Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

Thanks, Gerry, for you additional comments.

However , gratuitous as they are,  they really didn’t add an iota to your initial comments of 2 weeks ago.

But, I suppose that repetitively making such comments must fulfilled a need, eh?

Best regards,

Dave

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uuglypher
"100% of the shots you don't take don't go in!"
Wayne Gretzky

uuglypher
OP uuglypher Regular Member • Posts: 250
Re: Blue Ridge Mtn. Wildlife

Thank you, Gerry, for including an example of a classic two-view 3D image pair. May I assume that I have your permission to include it as an illustration exemplary of the merits and characteristics of ortho stereography in the book I am writing on monocular depth cue imagery? Several others of your posted images that I would also like to use include “Those darned kids” and “Joe College”, both previously posted in this forum. You will, of course, be explicitly attributed as the photographer.

Many thanks,

Dave

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uuglypher
"100% of the shots you don't take don't go in!"
Wayne Gretzky

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